When is an aircraft carrier not an aircraft carrier?

[Flyingblind]

Interesting,

Seems to be a replay of the UK's term 'Through deck Cruisers'. Perhaps the Royal Australian Navy is trying to push through a future requirement for Dave B?

Helicopter Carrier fitted with a ski jump?

Flickr: Royal Australian Navy's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/royal_australian_navy/with/5454887850/)

[Not_a_boffin]

Nope. Just a successful LHD type platform.

File:Spanish ship Juan Carlos I entering Ferrol.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spanish_ship_Juan_Carlos_I_entering_Ferrol.jpg)

Reliance on Dave B illustrates why bigger ships are needed to ensure you get an aircraft that can fly off a carrier.....

[ozbiggles]

In a case of fact is stranger than fiction I believe it was cheaper to leave the ski jump there than redesign the ship without it.

[Squirrel 41]

When is an aircraft carrier not an aircraft carrier?

Presumably when it's been bought without any aircraft to fly off it.... :*

[hoodie]

In a case of fact is stranger than fiction I believe it was cheaper to leave the ski jump there than redesign the ship without it.


You'd think it would be easy to cut it flat.

Perhaps they could use a plane.






Please yerselves.

[manccowboy]

When is an aircraft carrier not an aircraft carrier?

When it's in UK service :E

[draken55]

Meanwhile, back in the UK:ooh:

Carrier hull looms on Clyde as two sections joined up - Herald Scotland | News | Home News (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/carrier-hull-looms-on-clyde-as-two-sections-joined-up-1.1084987)

[whowhenwhy]

When it's a cocktail party?

[sisemen]

Beat me to it flyingblind. I was totally gobsmacked when I saw it on TV this evening. It will be interesting to get some answers from the Navy as to why they want a "through deck carrier" complete without Harriers. Perhaps there is an intent to buy the newly redundant Harriers from UK plc.

Otherwise I can't see why defence dollars have been spent on this bit of ego kit. And perhaps if they really wanted a Harrier carrier they should have waited a bit and bought Invincible at a knock down price.

[The Old Fat One]

Easy question easy answer.

This is not

YouTube - Japan JMSDF First "Helicopter Carrier" DDH 181 Hyuga Helicopter Destroyer Commissioned at Yokosuka (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJXhm421tqI)

The Japanese Hyuga Helicopter Destroyer is not an aircraft carrier despite resembling (and I quote) a light aircraft carrier (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier) or amphibious assault ship (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Amphibious_assault_ship) such as the Italian Navy (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Marina_Militare_Italiana)'s 13,850-ton Giuseppe Garibaldi (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Garibaldi_(551)), the Spanish Navy (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Spanish_Navy)'s 17,000-ton Principe de Asturias (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Principe_de_Asturias_(R11)) or the Royal Navy (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Royal_Navy)'s 21,000-ton Invincible-class carriers (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Invincible_class_aircraft_carrier).[4] (http://www.pprune.org/#cite_note-Hutchison2007-3)


Why, because the Japanese Consitution prohibits aircraft carriers and any other means of offensive power projection (such as an amphibious assault ship). Therefore it cannot be one...the government says so.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck........

[Not_a_boffin]

Otherwise I can't see why defence dollars have been spent on this bit of ego kit. And perhaps if they really wanted a Harrier carrier they should have waited a bit and bought Invincible at a knock down price.

Because, if you want to operate helicopters in an amphibious op, then you need the best amount of deck space to do it. Experience has shown that arranging it like a carrier gives the best option.

It has f8ck-all to do with ego-projects - either you Aussies have a requirement for amphibious ops (which given your geography and neighbours you probably do) or your defence requirements staff are telling porkies.

The fact it has a ramp is probably more to do with the deck design underneath than any desire to operate STOVL. However, given that you spend a lot of time with Uncle Sam, the ability to act as a spare deck for the USMC Harriers (and potentially Dave B) might just be useful.......

As for Invincible - I'd have thought the experience of Manoora and Kanimbla would have cured you of the idea that buying second hand utterly knackered ships is a good way to save money...........

[Finningley Boy]

When George Osborne tried to reassure that the new aircraft carriers would still live up to the name despite claims that we wouldn't have any aircraft for them to carry!:ok:

FB:)

[andyy]

It looks just like the sort of vessel that the UK should have bought instead of Albion, Bulwark & Ocean.

As for the RAN not deleting the ramp, then perhaps they realise that making any changes to an off the shelf design COSTS. Make changes, bring money. If you haven't go the money then leave well alone.

[davejb]

Kiev - through deck cruiser.... useful if you are intending to transit into the Med from the Black Sea, as I recall.

By the way, any chance of changing that fighter's nickname, 'Dave B' is becoming a term of abuse, and I'm beginning to feel a tad apprehensive....

Dave (B)

[draken55]

Dave C is a problem for some people too but the PM seems to like it:E

[davejb]

Fair point,
I'd REALLY hate to be confused with Dave C these days - I thought G Brown was a complete numpty, but I'm beginning to wonder what planet Dave C is living on.

Dave

[draken55]

dave

Little wonder when HMG hits us with this kind of nonsense on a regular basis when preaching austerity:ugh:

BBC News - Vince Cable's Murdoch gaffe 'to cost £300,000' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12509829)

[GreenKnight121]

Why, because the Japanese Consitution prohibits aircraft carriers and any other means of offensive power projection (such as an amphibious assault ship). Therefore it cannot be one...the government says so.

Try again... the Japanese constitution says no such thing!

Here... read it for yourself.

THE CONSTITUTION OF JAPAN (http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Japan/English/english-Constitution.html)

And the legal interpretation that allows a military that isn't a military:
I. Constitution of Japan and Right of Self-Defense (http://www.mod.go.jp/e/d_act/d_policy/dp01.html)

The 16DDH class are designed with a deck that cannot deal with the heat from the F-35 rear nozzle, and without the other support features needed for such an aircraft... it was designed for ASW helos only.


The 22DDH class, now... that's where the questions arise:
22DDH Class (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/22ddh.htm)

foreground 16DDH, background 22DDH.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/misc%20ships/Destroyers/helicopter%20destroyers/22DDH-16DDHcomparison.jpg

[Buster Hyman]

Helicopter Carrier fitted with a ski jump?

Absolutely!

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e295295f67a08045_landing

[NutLoose]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5454888264_6a679dcd7c_z.jpg

Interesting use of a portacabin for the bridge structure Flyingblind, but how on earth will they get the Admiral of the Fleet, Admiral, Vice Admiral, Rear Admiral, Commodore and Captain in that, along with the other bods, such as the driver....... whatever he is called in navyspeak ;)

[Flyingblind]

GreenKnight121, your link and picture are very interesting. Seems our Japanese friends are rather worried about the blue water aspirations of their Chinese neighbors.

Buster, is that a B47 performing a rather difficult maneuver for the sake of it? surely in an aircraft of that capability one would suggest forward travel as best practice. Or is there an element of photoshop in that photo?

NutLoose, Whilst the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) has not suffered the ravages of the cuts imposed upon the UK's Reduced Navy (RN), those involved still have to extend a sympathetic ear to the concerns of the bean-counters. Therefore, fitted-for-but-not-with is the new black, especially if we are to afford a Sqn or two of those naughtily expensive F35's.

[Buster Hyman]

Oh, it's photoshopped alright! When was the last time you saw a chopper pilot with a tie on?

[A2QFI]

When it is a heliport moored in London Docklands?

[Straight Up Again]

Definitely cheaper to keep the ramp. Subcontractors on LHD charge like a wounded bull for any changes.

When said large lump of metal arrives in Williamstown (to have the superstructure built/fitted) it's going to severely curtail the daylight getting into my office.

I definitely wouldn't say it's an ego trip, and is less likely to injure the crew (unlike Kanimbula and Manoora, LHD is likely to be seaworthy).

Of course there is a bit of a capability gap for the next 5 years or so, hence why a second hand buy/lease is being looked at (hope that works out, RAN haven't had great luck with second hand kit recently).