Batmen

[Hipper]

My father was a Flight Lieutenant flying in V bombers in the late fifties. He was married and we lived in married quarters which provided a house and garden. He had a batman who was a sergeant and all I remember of him was that he dug up part of the garden for vegetables.

I know very little about batmen, their selection and function and would be interested to know more.

[VinRouge]

You can ask about batmen. Just dont ask about gobbling teasmaids :E

[xenolith]

Try these:

Adam West (http://www.adamwest.com/)
Michael Keaton Central (http://www.michaelkeatoncentral.com/)
Val Kilmer (http://www.valekilmer.com/)

[Pontius Navigator]

For married officers lucky enough to be in quarters there was an allocation. Flt Lt had one between 6, Sqn Ldr 1 between 4.

Their duties were supposed to be shoe cleaning, laundry and pressing of the officer's uniforms. Mrs Flt Lt OTOH used to have the batman clean the grate, clean the house and generally do the servant bit. 1 in 6 meant around one hour of chores per quarter per day.

Many batmen were national service time servers.

In mess there was supposed to be a similar allocation but often it was nearer 1 in 12. There they had the shoe cleaning, early morning cuppa, uniform and civie pressing, prepare and receive laundry, cleaning the room and making and changing the bedding. A good batty was worth their weight in gold and used to earn tips from all their young gentlemen.

Initially they were national service but when that ended they were usually civilians. At Lindholme and Finningley, and again at Cottesmore, they were all ex-miners. Aside from batting a well organised batty would spend much of the day in his batman's room drinking tea with his mates. He could be persuaded to provide a cuppa later on.

In Cyprus we again had a similar batting service.

From the 70s batting as such began to die out although cleaners as they became could still be persuaded to do your ironing. At Wittering, as I no longer had a batman I ended up actually with 2 ladies who did the laundry and a man who did other things. I was on the road much of the time so he would collect yesterday's Times each morning and put a copy in my room.

I used to get back, empty my suitcase in to the laundry bin, pack my suitcase with clean laundry and then repeat the process the following week.

While batting in quarters is a thing of the past for most officers room cleaning remains as a duty in messes. Most messes now provide tea making facilities instead of the early morning call.

One of mine, a civilian ex-naval rating, used to read the orders and remind me of the dress code for the day.

[BEagle]

IIRC, 'Batmen' were officially downgraded to 'Mess Servants' in 1969 or thereabouts?

Although we still called them 'batties', but their role was gradually dumbed down by the beancounters over the years and had virtually disappeared by about 1988.

I think that Stn Cdrs and above still have a few staff, but very few compared to the 1970s......:hmm:

[Skycop]

Just dont ask about gobbling teasmaids

As usual, I was in the wrong place. She "covered" the east wing of the mess, I was given a room in the west wing.

[Roadster280]

It's a good thing that using servicemen for such chores has ended. I can't think of a more demotivational duty for junior ranks.

I do hope that the reason they were removed is less to do with finances and more to do with realising that the 19th century ended quite some time ago.

In a similar vein, I understand the need for three messes, and officers' patches, and senior ranks being segregated from junior ranks in the OR's patch. But why do the MOD buy different kinds of dining table for the seniors' and officers' messes? Why does an officer's MQ get a different furniture scale from a SNCO/WO? Lots of money to be saved there, and be seen to be a bit more joined up in the thinking department.

[Really annoyed]

But why do the MOD buy different kinds of dining table for the seniors' and officers' messes?It's all down to the cut of steak served in each mess.

The Officers are served Rib eye which is very well marbled and flavourful, the rib section is about the tastiest of all the steaks, and is tender and succulent enough for a quick treatment on the grill.

The SNCO's are served Sirloin which are less tender and cheaper than the rib eye, but sirloin steaks are very tasty.

The oiks are served Round. The round section is the hind leg of the cow, and although some of these can be very flavourful, all are less tender than even the sirloin.

So you see each steak deserves a different dining table in order to do it justice. Hope that answers your question.

[Skycop]

I do hope that the reason they were removed is less to do with finances and more to do with realising that the 19th century ended quite some time ago.

I love it when we get these history lessons from folk telling us how it should have been done, especially the ones not old enough to have experienced those "ancient" times.

However, although I was entitled to a batting service, albeit in its latter days, I must admit to having some difficulty recalling what type of aircraft the RAF (or any other air force) flew in the 19th century..... :confused:

[BEagle]

Hardly 'demotivational', really. There was once a 'dignity of service' in the UK and it was an absolute requirement to ensure that any so-called 'servant' was well looked-after. He was also given a tip at the end of each month and probably had a much easier existence than many of his contemporaries.

But with the erosion of the class structure and the advent of the me, me, me structure, such niceties are now a thing of the past.

Anyone wishing to have a well-paid job merely needs to pass a butler's course, learn to speak impeccable English and offer to become a butler to add a touch of class to some nouveau-riche Yank's household.

Whilst the class system was certainly open to abuse and misunderstanding, those who understood it properly (whether 'master' or 'servant') realised that it had much to commend it. It was really quite civilised, actually.

'Servants' were never 'slaves'!

[Melchett01]

Skycop, I share your annoyance about being in the wrong end of the Mess! And as for 'servants never slaves' quite right; one only has to dip a toe into PG Wodehouse to realise that a 'gentleman's gentleman' was frequently the sharper of the 2 in the relationship, and almost indispensable in terms of extracating one from the brown and smelly.

At my current place, we have a limited sort of batting service in that you are entitled to have uniform / suit etc prepared for the following day, which is rather handy.

Aside from that, the only time I have ever been woken with a cup of tea in the traditional 'Batman' sense was when I had to go to Fylingdales about 10 years ago. They explained to me that unless I had an old mechanical alarm clock, any UK electrical clock plugged into the mains would run fast because of issues with the power supply. So to avoid the entire Mess either being up at 4am if they used a clock or 10am if they didn't, they had to send someone round to make sure everyone was up. Don't know if they still do it though, but rather civilized though.

[Skycop]

Well it was an early warning station!

[spectre150]

I can remember batties in Messes when I lived-in during the late 70s and early 80s (there were goblin teasmaids at Linton, Finningley and Marham apparently (cough)) at that time). I think the batties were replaced with kettles in the rooms at some point in the early 80s. Not sure when service personnel stopped being batties, in my time they were all civvies. Like the OP, my father was a flt lt V force chap and we lived in quarters but I dont remember us having a batty - this was in the mid 60s. We did have a local lady looking after our hiring in Limassol in the late 60s and I think she was employed by the station (Akrotiri) and not by my parents.

And now I am married so I have someone to Wash, Iron, F*** Etc (thank God she doesnt read Prune or I would be a dead man).

[BEagle]

spectre150, are those personal services listed in the order of your personal preference?

Romance dies when muffled moans and sweet terms of endearment are replaced by "Did...you...know...the...cei...ling...needs...paint...ing?" Or, even worse, "Finished yet, dear?".....:\

OK, OK - it is Friday and I'm killing time in the Lufthansa Senator Lounge at Köln. The nice people have just opened another bottle which went 'pop', so toodle-oo!

[Roadster280]

However, although I was entitled to a batting service, albeit in its latter days, I must admit to having some difficulty recalling what type of aircraft the RAF (or any other air force) flew in the 19th century.....

Who said anything about aircraft? From what I have seen of RAF messes, they are very similar to Army messes (Corps type, not cavalry etc). The traditions built up in the Army would have been brought across in 1918.

However, it's now 2011, and the young people joining today have an expectation of being treated fairly, as BEagle says. Duties such as waiting on and mess duties are demeaning to those who studied hard and hold down some very technically demanding jobs in the Services.

"Congratulations on completing your 18 months of trade training, you are now qualified to work on multi million pound equipment that people's lives depend on. Here's a promotion, and a pay rise. By the way, you're waiting on in the mess tonight. Enjoy".

[Melchett01]

And now I am married so I have someone to Wash, Iron, F*** Etc (thank God she doesnt read Prune or I would be a dead man).

The one thing I remember from my French teacher at school was that a gentleman should always be self-sufficient in these matters. If you find yourself spending more time in the doghouse than you would otherwise care for, that you can wash, iron and cook means that at least you can get to work without looking like a bag of spanners and you will at the very least know exactly what went into dinner the night before.

On the other hand, if you are fortunate enough not to spend most of your time in the doghouse, that you taken the washing and ironing duties off your good lady's hands means there is more time for the f........:ok:

[BEagle]

Roadster280, the work of a 'battie' wasn't something forced upon a particular individual, it was a specific trade.

Whereas the Army and, in particular, the Royal Navy have strong traditions, the RAF (like the USA) hasn't been in existence long enough to have developed anything more than 'nasty little habits'....:\

When one of HM's little grey floaty things moors up for a cockers P, the ship's company, I understand, thoroughly enjoy the experience whether Captain or the most junior sailor on board.

(Apologies if I haven't used correct Jackspeak terminology).

[Skycop]

The morning "wake up service" from the batting ladies.

The door of my room in the mess used to be flung open, a cup of tea was slapped down on my bedside table. The required surly "Morning Sir" wake up words were said and the door was closed again very loudly.

However, the occupant of the adjacent room down the corridor got an obviously different service. His door was very quietly opened and then closed immediately and almost silently, but I heard it. It was often a good few minutes before it was then opened again, more loudly, a cup of tea rattled about, and the door banged shut again.

He later married her.

(Surprising really, as he also went onto Jaguars. :oh: )

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

You still got a cup of tea at 0700 from the batties at CF in 90/91.

Duncs

[Skycop]

Roadster280, you misunderstand. If you are required to live in a hotel for which you are paying quite heavily, would you forgo room service, for which you have also paid, because it belongs in the 19th century? It's the same sort of thing.

We did not have the option to live elsewhere.

As Beagle said, the mess staff did the work for a living, not as an additional duty.

[Roadster280]

OK, I concede the point that if someone rocks up to the careers office and chooses Mess Steward as a trade, then that is their choice.

The imposition of such duties is what I object to.

As a side note, does the RAF still have Mess Steward (or whatever it is called today) as a trade? I must admit that when I was posted to an RAF station (being Army), the few of us there were surprised that the RAF had Mess Stewards, the Army had long since done away with them. The odd more traditional regiment dicked blokes to work in messes, but no trade as such.

[fin1012]

I remember well the early morning call service in the O's Mess in Gib when detached during the 80's. The tea was made in a large teapot at about 0600. The spanish ladies providing the service would chatter loudly in the corridor until the time that was chinagraphed on your door, then clatter in with your by now luke warm cuppa. This would be banged down on your bedside table, followed by further loud and animated Soanish chattering until the next person was due and repeat. In the end, I gave up and had my cup at 0600 regardless, just so it was hot. Mind, since this was before the border opened, it was always disgusting because of the long life milk.

[BOAC]

Well it was an early warning station! - wasn't that Batman, Robin?

[Gravelbelly]

As a young UOTC officer cadet in 1986, I managed to get on a sport parachuting course at Weston-on-the-Green, and was accommodated in the Officers' Mess at Brize Norton. Reasonably early on the first morning I was rather shocked when there was a knock on the door from the civilian mess employee to ask me how I liked my coffee...

...I didn't get to enjoy it though. About three minutes later every loudspeaker in the place started ranting on about "EXERCISE, EXERCISE". As a former air cadet and army brat, I had some idea of the significance of a TACEVAL; and so about ten minutes later I was at the front door of PCAU in uniform wondering whether I was going to have to take part. Fortunately the scary man in the maroon beret told me not to worry, but by the time I got back to the room, the coffee was cold...

[1771 DELETE]

Skycop
I think i know the man, did he bang out the Jag on Tain range and then out a JP in the North East? If it is the same person, she was very nice..

[DC10RealMan]

I had an ex-colleague who had been an "Other Rank" in the military air traffic control world. She told me that her duty on night shift was to listen on the frequency whilst the officer air traffic controller went to bed. If any aircraft did call she was to answer with a "standby for controller" and get the officer out of bed. If no aircraft did call and having been awake all night about 30 minutes before the end of the night shift she had to wake him with a cup of tea ready for him to go off duty.
Personally as a career civilian I would have told him to "f**k off and make his own tea"

[langleybaston]

Perhaps an historical context may enlighten proceedings?

Long before the Royal Air Force, and long before the RFC, the infantry of the army had a very sensible and I think fair way of ensuring its officers were where they were supposed to be on duty, and properly dressed.
In peace, each officer had a servant. Officers required to ride as part of their duty [the horse gave a better viewpoint in battle for decision-makers] had two servants, one for the 'orse.

A private soldier employed as a servant had to be an experienced soldier, passed in the mandatory infantry subjects and fit to stand in line of battle, and was payed a fixed [by Regimental Standing Orders] generous sum, usually half his normal pay, by the officer. When not required by the officer, he was employed in mess. There was rarely a household to look after, officers were expected to live in, certainly as subalterns. "Colonels must marry, majors may marry, captains and subalterns may not marry". His officer provided the servant with mess clothing of regimental pattern, and mufti for when the officer in civvies was accompanied by the servant, which was often, with huge furloughs out of the training season. Men were able to [and did] refuse to work for a given officer. They had many perks, including permanent walking-out passes, and a goodly number followed their bloke into retirement as personal staff.
There were sometimes deep bonds of affection and dependence in both directions, redoubled in war because the servant became a Batman on the War Establishment and went to war as such. In a conflict such as the Great War, the batmen tended to be pooled in Company HQ under a junior NCO, and accompanied his fellow about his duties, often in the attack, and often priviliged in off-duty time.

I write of a bygone age, when it was neither abject to serve, nor reprehensible to be a master.

Zooming forward to almost modern days, as a Met Man spending much of his career overseas in OMQ, with an invidious "Equivalent Rank" to determine where to sit in Mess [and how much buckshee coke was issued], and often with a Dormant RAFVR Commission in case of WW III, I noticed that, as I ascended the ladder, so the privileges ascended at the same rate, so that, as CMetO BFG I briefly [as a pseudo Gp Capt] had a car and a driver, which lasted all of a couple of months!

Now in retirement I share a car, and do batman duties about the house. I do still have a sense of humour, necessary in a MetMan and his customer.

[chiglet]

When I was in Borneo [1964/65] as an airman, we had what were called "chogie wallahs", These were Malay civillian lads [13-18 I think] who did our laundry and Basha cleaning duties.They also ran errands to the Naaffi. I think that they lived [existed] on the money that we gave them.
When you think. we lived six or eight to a room, and two lads "looked after" ten rooms or so, at a [Singapore] dollar a week per airman... worth about 1s9d.... the lads were not exactly starving....
Just worked it out. I was on about $S90 per week, for two on one off shifts..:eek:

[Tankertrashnav]

At my first mess in 1965 things were very much as they had been for the previous 40 odd years. Our batties by then were civilians who looked after us well, for which they were tipped on a sliding scale according to the officer's rank. The atmosphere of the times can be gained by the fact that we had much opposition from the older officers to the mess purchasing a washing machine to save us the expense of sending our kit to the laundry, which was paid for on mess bills. The PMC felt that this move would be "detrimental to the status" of the officers, a phrase which immediately entered use, usually ironically.

Chiglet -How did the operation go? ;)

[handsfree]

Alas the end of Cockers P and Horse's Necks.
Another victim of the cuts.

Belay those Horse's Necks and Cockers P! (Or how, after 200 years, the MoD has banned the Navy's cocktail parties) | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257792/Belay-Horses-Necks-Cockers-P--Or-200-years-MoD-banned-Navys-cocktail-parties.html)

[sled dog]

according to the song, Kaiser Bill had one..........

sorry

[Exascot]

I had a batman at Northolt in the OM in the late 70s. He was for always sending away my clothes away for dry cleaning whether they needed it or not - well I didn't think they did. I still have some metal coat hangers which he wrapped paper around to prevent marks across the trousers. He was a real gentleman's gentleman. He looked after my clothes and my room. Always a cheery good morning with my cup of tea in bed. Then I got married :(

[foldingwings]

Definitely had bat (wo)men in the O Mess at Laarbruch in the early 70s. The young lady (18) allocated to the top floor of Block 13A never did provide me with a hot cup of tea as she had taken a shine (or he to she) to the pilot who lived in the first room at the top of the stairs! Consequently, I was up, shaved and in my flying suit and heading off to breakfast by the time she got round to my room in the far corner.

Happy Days (if somewhat jealous of said pilot!).

Foldie:ok:

PS. My batlady at Finningley often invited 'her boys home to tea' in Rossington; she even fixed me up with the Mess Receptionist at one stage of my nav school days! I wonder whatever happened to Angie (not the receptionist)!

[jindabyne]

Breakfast in your flying suit - good god man, surely not!

I shared a batman with other 8 Sqn mates in the Khormaksar Mess. Ghaleb was a pleasant young Arab, but he never did understand why I once berated him for polishing and shining my suede hush-puppies - bless!

[dalek]

At Abingdon late 60's my batwoman was a complete star. My laundry basket was emptied and became washed and ironed linen placed neatly in the drawers. My uniform and civies were neatly pressed and placed in a logical order in the wardrobe. When she took a few days off my life descended into squalor.
In February 1970 I married. She sent my wife a set of kitchen scales and a message of condolence. Lovely lady.

[Pontius Navigator]

And of course it was not just the Services that had batties, or in Mrs PN's case, a servant.

As pre-Miss PN she was a Junior Sister at a hospital living in the nurses' home (another joy cut), when the door would be opened unceremoniously and her early morning tea, on a tray with cup, saucer, sugar and milk would be placed on her back while she laid in bed - exit servant!

At least now the tea tray is placed on the butler's tray stand of a morn.

[forget]

Years ago my only experience of a batman left me tickled pink. I’d flown into Dacca from Singapore very late one night and a driver took me to accommodation arranged by our company agent. It turned out to be in the Military Cantonment in the city. Next morning there’s a knock on my door and in walked an army corporal with a couple of boiled eggs and a cup of tea.

I caught a glimpse of his battle-dress shoulder flash as he turned to go, saluted and hammered his right foot into the floor boards. I swear I came to attention in bed – Bengal Lancers. :ok:

As you ask, I was there to fit some expensive US kit into Shenyang F-6s, Chinese-built version of the MiG-19. Spice of life - as they say.

[Wholigan]

At West Raynham in the mid-to-late 60s, the batman who worked in my wing of the Mess was called Fred. I think that Fred was ex National Service who had simply stayed on because he liked what he was doing.

Fred was an aircraftman aged mid-to-late 40s and absolutely loved his job, at which he was exceptionally good. According to Fred, he had been offered promotion on several occasions, but invariably turned it down because he would have to move and work somewhere else. He said that he'd rather stay and work with his "young gentlemen", because they seemed to appreciate him.

[langleybaston]

"according to the song, Kaiser Bill had one.......... "

Thats strange: Hitler, his successor also had one. Himmler was similar, Rommel had two but very small, Goebbels was totally bereft. Thats what was sung in the Bawtry Mess Happy Hours.
I wonder how Mike Knight knew?

[Moonraker One]

My Grandfather Joe was a Valet to Garth Marshall during the First World War. He was treated as a friend of the family and during the 1930s he would visit London and the Marshall family for Rememberance Day. Joe carried the standard for the British Legion. Of the original 600 who set off to France in 1914 Joe was one of 50 who came home. The Marshall family had the upmost respect for my Grandfather Joe because after their dear son Garth was blown to pieces by an artillary shell it was Joe who looked around for the human remains to be buried. Garth was identified by Joe's hand writing in Garth's trench coat. The regiment they served was the 11th Hussar's. Garth was the best pistol shot in the regiment using both left and right hand on horseback.

When Joe visited the Marshall family they would assemble as if it was their beloved Garth coming home from the war.

He was just a Valet. I am very proud that he was.... and a hero of the First World War.

[Pontius Navigator]

Wholighan, same time, Stradishall, we had a NS batman who worked this small non-standard type barrack block with just 16 rooms, enough for our Nav Course. It was a pain having to walk the couple of hundred yards to and from the mess but as junior course that was where we were allocated.

To a man, after a month, we all elected to remain there rather than face the upheaval and a new batman. He didn't have to do a lot, we only had the 2 suits, DJ, and sports jacket and slacks.

[dagama]

I was Detco Nairobi in 1971 - VC10s, Brits and Hercs were flying in with troops and equipment and flying back empty. BHC Nairobi had put the word around so there were quite a few indulgence passengers to handle.

One day, an Army colonel turned up with the yellow card duly stamped as approved by the BHC so my staff processed him and told him to wait in the lounge -a wooden hut. When it came to board, he was accompanied by lance corporal who, it transpired, was not a duty passenger. Upon questioning, he referred to the colonel. Said colonel took umbrage that we had not allowed for his batman to travel with him.

'He always goes where I go', was his response! He blamed the RAF for not using its crystal ball!

The arrogance of the colonel to treat his batman as chattel was astonishing as he had not applied for the indulgence for his batman. A seat for the batman was not a problem so he was boarded but was probably quite hungry en route to BZN, unless the cabin staff found a morsel for him. I bet the colonel was not bothered about his well being.

[DC10RealMan]

I read somewhere (I think) that Douglas Bader when he was a prisoner in Colditz Castle would not allow his batman to be medically repatriated to the UK as he was too useful to him.
The German authorities were quite willing to return said batman via the Swiss Red Cross.

[Samuel]

I never lived in MQs in New Zealand, always preferring to own our own home, so I had none of the MQ batting experience. I doubt it ever happened in the RNZAF anyway! You could still have your shoes cleaned and receive a cuppa in the morning if you were staying in a Mess, but even in the mid-60s they were almost all civilian staff as I recall.

Singapore during ANZUK was different when I, as a Flt Lt RNZAF was allocated a MQ at 12 Hyde Park Gate at Seletar, by then [1974] taken over by the SAF. We had an Amah of course, for which we had allowances, but she didn't live in, and on the odd occasion when she did I made sure she was in the house and not in the accommodation out back provided for servants. So Kiwis were never very good at this servant relationship.

We eventually moved house from Seletar to Kenya Crescent near the Naval Base. Houses built before the war for senior navy officers. They're still there! Each house had the equivalent of a two-bedroomed servants quarters out the back! When we left Hyde Park Gate, the Barrack Wardens, still run by people who had worked for the Brits for fifty years or so, did the usual inventory check, in my case carried out by an Indian gentleman. He insisted I was a missing a "Mirror, Wall, Large" which of course we'd never had, and in the end he agreed perhaps it wasn't missing. Some of the stuff in those house was legendary: sherry glasses with the George VI crest on them, and excellent silverware. There were things like solid teak book cases, and card tables. I got an RAF associate to buy one of the writing desks, and paid him the Fiver it cost, I still have it and it's in use every day, a very nice piece of furniture! I happened to mention I'd like a couple of the glasses, and the ever obliging Indian told me I had a "breakage allowance, and if we liked we could be having breakage" and promptly wrapped the glasses for me! He assured me it was all above board! In the "Thieves Market" in Singapore, you could buy just about anything you wanted from ex-MQ stock, including an unused set of silver cutlery still in it's box!

[SRENNAPS]

A very good friend of my wife was a “Batwoman” several years ago (Cottesmore). She absolutely loved the experience for many reasons. She started in the Air Force age 17, with no qualifications, advanced to the rank of LACW and eventually SACW. She very quickly learnt that she was just doing a job and while some treated her as some form of low life others treated her with respect. Those that treated her as low life were generally dirty, lazy people who used their officer status to get by. Those that treated her with respect were just normal down to earth people. She was able to learn a great deal about people and now owns stables in Leicestershire with about 100 horses. She puts it down to the experience she gained working as a Batperson.

As an aside, when my dad was stationed in Penang as a high ranking JT we had an amah. They were Malayan servants who looked after the house and did the garden. As a kid I remember them as lovely people. Is there any difference?

[oldbaldeagle]

''However, it's now 2011, and the young people joining today have an expectation of being treated fairly, as BEagle says. Duties such as waiting on and mess duties are demeaning to those who studied hard and hold down some very technically demanding jobs in the Services.

"Congratulations on completing your 18 months of trade training, you are now qualified to work on multi million pound equipment that people's lives depend on. Here's a promotion, and a pay rise. By the way, you're waiting on in the mess tonight. Enjoy".''

Roadster, do you have the faintest clue what you are talking about? Have you ever lived, other than perhaps as a transient contractor, in an Officer's Mess?

Could you give us an example of technically qualified ground crew being used as mess stewards, because, with almost 3 decades of service well behind me, including stints on mess committees, I cannot think of one. As someone who joined in the mid sixties and 'lived in' on six stations in the UK and abroad I cannot once remember having a service batman; locally employed civilians, glad of a job, yes but never a serviceman. Please lighten our darkness.

[minigundiplomat]

Could you give us an example of technically qualified ground crew being used as mess stewards, because, with almost 3 decades of service well behind me, including stints on mess committees, I cannot think of one. As someone who joined in the mid sixties and 'lived in' on six stations in the UK and abroad I cannot once remember having a service batman; locally employed civilians, glad of a job, yes but never a serviceman. Please lighten our darkness.


Tailored Air Group groundcrew employed as Mess Hands. HMS Ocean 2002.

[Willard Whyte]

An 0700 arousal is something of a rude awakening. 0730 allows plenty of time for a sh** shower shave and journey into work for 0830. Cock all happens before then anyway, save for pathetic chisellers attempting to make a impression and/or lick their bosses backside.

[Roadster280]

Oldbaldeagle-

As a Pte/JNCO, I have waited on in the Sgts' and Officers' messes many times. 7, 8 and 16 Signal Regiments. I've been the minibus driver carrying drunken mess members and their other halves home almost as many times. Same regiments. Never paid, always an additional duty.

I saw the same deal happen in the RAF. SACs dicked left, right and centre for mess duties, although not as much as the Army, granted.

Once I entered the Mess myself, I found myself cringing with embarrassment when it was a dinner night and a JNCO was serving me my dinner. Absolutely atrocious. As a lowly Sgt, I could merely accept. But how I wished that wasn't so.

So I would ask you, old chap, do you have the faintest idea what went on?

[Fark'n'ell]

However, although I was entitled to a batting service, albeit in its latter days, I must admit to having some difficulty recalling what type of aircraft the RAF (or any other air force) flew in the 19th century.....

To my knowledge there were no aircraft or any airforces until the early 20th
century.:)

[Hipper]

As I said in the opening post, my father's batman was a sergeant. I remember his name but won't say it.

My guess is that he was doing extra, private, work when he was digging our garden in married quarters. My mother used to polish my father's uniform buttons (using that metal strip to protect the cloth from the polish) so I'm not sure our batman had regular duties in the house.

After my father died we of course left married quarters and my mother looked after us three brats on her war widows pension, which was nowhere near as generous as now, and doing extra work. This former batman used to write to her asking for money giving various reasons. I think my mum obliged a few times but in the end did not.

We were lucky to live in married quarters because I understand quite a few married couples lived in caravans, at least for a time. There was a caravan site, outside the camp I think, which also housed a nursery school where I went - we called it for some reason 'the carrot tops'.

[grobbling about]

Ah Batties

The RAF very generously paid me to go to University in the early ‘80s. It was a rather unusual engineering degree course which saw myself and my fellow Acting Pilot Officers alternating between study periods at the University and practical periods at RAF stations. One such practical period comprised 12 weeks at RAF St Athan where we were fortunate to be accommodated in the wing of the mess looked after by a rather nice blond lady called Sandy.

After a short while I started to become rather concerned with the relationship that existed between Sandy and myself. Remember I was a young, naive, impressionable and easily confused young chap. One evening after a few beers in the bar, I squeezed myself between the pristine, well starched and tightly tucked-in sheets to find that the bed appeared to end about half way down. Sandy had apple-pied it! I struggled with the sheets and think that sorting it all out was beyond my mental of physical capacity at the time so I slept on top. The next morning’s tea (standard NATO (then) – milk and two sugars) was delivered with a giggle. A few days later rushing to dress for dinner, I thrust my hand into my suit jacket to find that the sleeves had been sown up. The next morning the laces of my brightly polished DMS shoes were tied together. I know, I know now, or at least I like to believe that in my naivety I missed all of the signs....Anyway these sort of things continued for a while with me taking them as a good natured joke. Finally my tea arrived with milk and 2 salts; I decided to repay in kind.
The batting room was about halfway down the corridor from mine and I set of to recce it. After a short while I found a bucket. I also noticed that a water pipe ran above the door. It was clear that a bucket of water attached to the pipe would tip over the door as it opened inward. I was now beyond the point of no return and a few moments later the bucket was suspended from the pipe, full of water. Now I was on the wrong side of the door but I reckoned that a gentle easing of the door a small way would allow me to exit without a drenching. This proved true but as I eased the door I realised that it would be obvious, from the force required to move the door, that something was amiss. I decided to disguise this by pushing one of the battie’s armchairs against the door, squeezing through and then pulling the chair towards the door from outside. I then had a crisis of confidence, primarily as a number of senior officers also occupied the wing. I decided to stick a sign to the door – ‘Danger Booby Trapped’. In all reality I thought that this would give the game away, but thought it better than being carpeted for drenching a Squadron Leader.

And so to bed. At 5am the next morning I was awoken by a great splash and scream. Footsteps followed and my door swung open. There stood a bedraggle figure, long black hair lying limply....black? Sandy’s a blond.........It transpired that it was Sandy’s day off and the Mess Manager’s wife was filling in!! Chocolates and flowers, sincerest apologies and a talking to followed. I went back 10 years later, Sandy was still there as were other members of staff including the barmaid who said “weren’t you the one .....”

[Wander00]

Could start a whole new thread on the Batties at Cranwell, in my case in the earlyish sixties. Pop Amies (RIP) was one of the A Sqn batties and he looked after us like a favourite uncle. I left the RAF (GD/P) in 1969, and in April 1980 rejoined as Admin Sec. I pulled up behind Cranwell SHQ and as I opened the car door a voice said "Welcome Back, Sir". "Pop, how nice to see you". "Well Sir, I heard that you were returning and I thought it only right I should meet you". Surprising amount of dust in the air as I entered SHQ.

In the sixties there were still one or two staff around from the very early days of the College, and I believe one batman in B Sqn had been batman for Douglas Bader.

[goudie]

I still have a photo (taken in '55) of myself, then a lowly 'erk', being served my Christmas dinner by Sqdn Ldr. Mason, in the airman's mess RAF Wahn. Does that fine tradition still exist?

[ShyTorque]

It did in my time.

But I gave up volunteering for that after some erk stole my brand new SD hat (we had to buy them ourselves and I could ill afford another as a F/O).

[Clearedtoroll]

Yes the Christmas tradition still exists. At a certain Cornish station not so long ago I remember a young Regt lad who couldn't get his head round the idea I would just keep serving him wine when he asked. I explained that I was there to serve! Felt a bit bad as SDO 2 days later when he was parading at 2200 at the MGR for having turned up at work hammered the day after...

[Pontius Navigator]

It is quite possible that some non-catering tradesmen may have volunteered to serve as stewards in the Mess. One reason Mess functions cost is the cost of staff - they don't work for free on a 24/7 basis.

They work all day setting up and are then often paid till gone mid-night or even to breakfast at rates well above minimums.

In US Officers' Clubs it is normal to employ enlisted men and again this is on top of their normal pay.

[Old Fella]

Well I guess as a Colonial who served over 23 years with the Australian Forces and rose to hold W/O rank and lead various groups of men I think I can likely claim some sort of record. I never ever attended any official Dining In night. I also managed to complete an uninterupted period of at least five years where I did not go on Parade because I had more important things to do, like crew an aircraft or some other useful endeavour. I also had those under my command removed from Base duties. If it was good enough for the clerks in Accounting not to have to do base duties so that they did not get fatigued and make mistakes I reckoned it was at least equally important for aircrew to be treated in like manner. Thanks God not every "tradition" from the British Forces was retained in the ADF. Oh, and Goudie, you were never "a lowly 'erk", just an 'erk.

[goudie]

Oh, and Goudie, you were never "a lowly 'erk", just an 'erk.
Of course not Old Fella. It was just an expression of one's position, in the order of things.

I would just keep serving him wine

Wine! Wine! One bottle of beer and that was yer lot! Wine indeed!

[Old-Duffer]

DC10Realman - post 43 is right.

Not only did Bader stop the soldier from being repatriated but the soldier used to carry Bader up and down steep stone stairs for his bath.

When war ended, Bader left first and instructed the soldier to bring the spare pair of legs home with him. The US personnel refused to let the soldier carry these items and they were left behind. A little later Bader telephoned the soldier and asked where the spare legs were. When the soldier told him, Bader slammed the phone down and never again spoke to the soldier.

This story was told by the soldier on a TV programme a few years ago and Bader's behaviour was corroborated by others. War hero Yes, Charity worker Yes, but Caring and considerate officer No.

Fancy stopping a POW from being repatriated.

Old Duffer

PS There is a story - probably not true - that Bader was 'fragged' by one of his own when he was shotdown.

[Tankertrashnav]

A seat for the batman was not a problem so he was boarded but was probably quite hungry en route to BZN, unless the cabin staff found a morsel for him. I bet the colonel was not bothered about his well being.


I bet he was! Unlike an RAF officer of equivalent rank already referred to on here.

[teeteringhead]

Many were very very happy with their lot. I remember a civvy batty at Shawbury (Centre Block) called Dave King - but always always "Mr" King.

He retired about 10 years ago, IIRC, and it turned out that it was the only job he'd ever had!! I think we worked it out that in (I think) 45 years he must have served under 27 Stn Cdrs, Lord knows how many PMCs and looked after literally thousands of officers.

And he never wanted to do anything else.....:ok:

[langleybaston]

In 1963 or '64 during the Turks v Greeks bust-up Round One, service and attached personnel with less than 4 months or so until tourex were housed in RAF Nicosia Messes and the families trooped home without ifs or buts.

I was already a Nicosia Mess member so had a fairly privileged crack at accommodation. The officers normally were 5 to a bungalow, with a room each, and a batmans' room cum laundry and ablutions down one end. Naturally, the crisis meant 2 beds to a room, 10 blokes.

The batty was a Turkish male [most were]. He greeted me with a pseudo- salute to which I was not entitled, and offered me shared use of one of his many daughters as required "wife away many weeks now, need woman". When I stood open mouthed he added "Its OK sir, most my young officers have my girls, but now have to share a little, like rooms".
No I didn't, and yes it was true. I wonder how many got a dose to take home.

[4fitter]

And then there was 'blind' Neville at Wroughton who cycled to work and knew your tea was full when his thumb got wet. God bless his memory but he made a stack from our voluntary monthly tips.

[dagama]

Hipper


We were lucky to live in married quarters because I understand quite a few married couples lived in caravans, at least for a time.

The RAF did not recognise married officers until he/she was 25 years old. If you got married before then, there was no entitlement to MQ and marraige allowance. Private housing was expensive to rent so the caravan was the cheapest way to house yourself and the Mrs O.

All this changed when the military salary was introduced IIRC in 1971 by Sir Andrew Humphrey RIP. Mind you, still had to write to the staish for permission to marry! I did in 1975 but that convention has been consigned to history. Not before time.

[Whenurhappy]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. So much of what has been posted on other threads is 'doom and gloom' and it is nice to have some rampant nostalgia!

Permission to marry continued well into the 1990s. I had to get my Stn Cdr's signature in 1995 at RAF Lyneham to receive an Archbishop's Special License to marry Mrs WP, as I was outside her denomination. I also had to swear an oath in the Stn Chapel (ie the parish church, just outside the gates) and in return received an extremely impressive parchment from the Archbishop of Canterbury, allowing me to , err, marry an Anglican at a specific time,at a specific church.

Ahh Batmen!

When I was first commissioned in a Colonial air force in the mid 1980s, we still had full batting service (cup of tea, shoes polished and allegedly 5 shirst ironed a week). It was a risky thing to put shoes outside your door - invariably they were a bit squishy in the morning and smelt a bit like the WOs and SNCOs Mess...could never work out why!

The batting staff were General Service Hands - old sweats (generally long-retired SNCOs) working as ACs on a rolling 2 week contract in the Territorial Air Force. They were good at 'sourcing' stuff for you (Sir, that shirt's a bit frayed - leave it with me - hey presto a new (free) shirt appeared the following day!). After I transfered to the RAF, Batting Service was a distant memory. Apparently I was entitled to it at Cranwell on SERE course, but clearly the staff had other ideas.

Several years later I was 'courting' future Mrs WP and we went to Badminton Horse Trials - hamper, champers, the works. We are walking around the jumps and then there's a tap on my shoulder - it was 'Audrey', one of the Batmen from NZ. To be recognised by one's Batman at Badminton! A toe curling few minutes passed as we exchanged pleasantries, hoping that 'Audrey' wouldn't mention the occasions when two cups of tea were delivered to my room, amongst other events...

I last encountered 'full' batting service at RAF Stafford in c 1999 during a visit; of course Naval Wardrooms still offer a pretty could level of service in your cabin. Perhaps I was dreaming, but I am sure at HMS Drake a few years ago, when the tea was delivered at OMG early, the was a brusque voice 'Sugar Sir?' 'Err, no' 'Well don't stir it then!'

In Singapore in the late 1980s there was a 'boot boy' at Khatib Mess, IIRC, who had been taken on at the age of 12 just before WWII. He worked for the British, the Japanese, the British and then the Kiwis. Probably worked for the Chinese MSS...Samuel - perhaps you remember him?

Happy days amongst all this gloom.

[Wander00]

In 1984 I wrote a Formal letter to Aunty Joan asking for "Permission to Marry" the now Mrs W (both of us had been married before), when I was the newly arrived OC Admin Sqn at Neatishead. She then called me into the sanctum, smiled sweetly and told me the MQ was available as of now (3 weeks before the wedding) and she had no problem if we were both in occupation from the following day.

[Tankertrashnav]

The RAF did not recognise married officers until he/she was 25 years old.


She? My wife had to relinquish her commission the day before we married in 1969 - no married female officers then. Like Wander00 I had to write to both her boss and my staish for permission to marry as well - the difference being there was no "nod and a wink" about pre-nuptial nookie (swinging sixties? - huh!). Indeed a mate at Seletar and his WRAF g/f both had a year's seniority docked summarily by the C-in-C for the heinous offence of a trip to his room in the mess after the summer ball.

Talk about a different world.

[Fareastdriver]

Sepulot; the middle of Sabah, Borneo in 1966. I was on a short detachment with my own Whirlwind 10 and was accomodated in the Ghurka officers mess. This was a long hut constructed by the Ghurka Engineers out of bamboo, wrinkly tin and parachute baseboards as the floors. The were no windows, just an awning the was pushed up and propped. Dinner was always served on the Regimental China and drinks were always in solid silver goblets. Naturally there was a batman who would bring you your char in the morning.

There were only two problems at the time. A trumpet bird would settle outside my room just before dawn and let the whole world know that the sun was coming up. The other was that my room's floor was not that secure. I had to be careful where I trod because a board edge was a bit loose. I was too lazy to report this as I was only there for week or so.

One morning the Ghurka orderly came in with my char. I was asleep after having that damn bird blaring in my ear for half an hour. He was about to place the tea on the side table when I woke and he, as Ghurkas do, crashed to attention. This broke the baseboard fixing and he sank about two feet to the jungle floor. Unperturbed, without spilling a drop, he reached up and placed the tea on my table and bolted under the floor outside.
I drank the tea, got up and when to the ablution block outside. Whilst showering away I heard this hammering and banging. Back to my room and there was a new floor installed.

OC HQ Coy and I had a joint moan one night about the trumpet bird. OC A Coy said he would sort it. Next morning the bird started up.

BLAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR BANG.

Problem solved.

[Whenurhappy]

Yoof today may be good at this fighting business....but where is the style and elan (see previous post)?

Imagine the hue and cry it it was revealed that the 3rd Bn, the Loamshire Regiment deployed with Batmen and Mess silver to, say, Helmand Province. Great for morale but it would be a PR disaster!

Although I do recall a Signals Regiment (11?) in Kosovo from Jun - Sep 99 deploying with mess silver and decent china.

On 6 Feb 02 we held a Dining-In (50 years of the Queens Accession) in the middle of the Saudi Desert with US and French officers in attendance - great food, drink, service (the hint is there - Service staff to prepare and serve) - and it probably achieved more goodwill with our Allies - especially the US - than tanking umptie-ump F-18s, or whatever during the opening stages of OEF.

[foldingwings]

DamianF

ensured that we all remained on the straight and narrow................

So where did it all go wrong!!!! Surely you can't blame me (or 3Putt)!

'Twas not only batmen; there were other stalwarts of the officers' mess who knew how to look after 'their officers'!

I have vivid recall of a Bucc detachment for ex Northern Wedding (or such like) to Lossie in the 70s when, on the Sunday, we moseyed on out to the Gordon Arms at Fochabers for a spot of lunch, which subsequently turned into an extended drinkex before we were evicted prior to the arrival of the gentile ladies of the town who were inbound for afternoon tea. Still requiring of a spirit or two, we took ourselves off to the Glenlivet distillery and arrived back at Lossie OM at about 1750 hours! Rushing to the bar to continue our happy imbibing, we discovered to our horror that it was not yet open and was being guarded by Mr Mac (the aged retainer and friend to all officers - God Bless him) who informed us that the bar was closed and that, no, we couldn't have a beer! His response, however, was quickly followed in that soft, enchanting accent of the north of Scotland: 'Mind, ye can all have a whisky while yer waitin'!'

Mr Mac, whatever would we have done without him!

Foldie:D

[Melchett01]

Sandy was a mess steward at Bentley Priory rather than a batman, but was the epitomy of everything that has been mentioned in previous posts. And quite right too given that he had spent umpteen years as a steward on The Royal Yacht.

I remember sitting in the bar at Bentley one Saturday evening. I had been in Town all day, got back late and missed dinner. Being a bit peckish, I was on my 3rd pack of crisps at which point Sandy piped up along the lines of 'excuse me Sir, I do apologise for interrupting, but I notice that's your 3rd pack of crisps and you weren't in dinner; if you would like, I can pop into the kitchen and rustle up a sandwich if you're hungry. If you need another beer whilst I'm gone, help yourself and just leave a chit on the counter'.

Sandy was an absolute star. He took pleasure in providing the best service possible to everybody in the Mess, regardless of rank, or civilian status, and we all thought he was amazing for it. Alas, I'm afraid those sorts of standards are now very much consigned to the bin with the relentless march to 'Catering, Leisure and Retail' and how much can we charge for doing as little as possible.

[langleybaston]

Very civil of you. I do hope the Bruggen was not between 1989 and 1996 ........ I thought Derek Nazer and Nev Simmons and their boys and girls were just about the best team assembled under one Stevenson Screen. AFTER I kicked collective ARSSE.
Pete Tweed alas, the best briefer that ever worked for me, passed away last year at a far-too-young age.

RIP Pete.

[threeputt]

Yes, Happy day's etc. We did the same to Osby and a few other shavers as well but, they seemed to cope all right.

Don't get me going on Eric the one eyed, civilian batman in the west wing huts at Shawbury in 1968 or for that matter the wonderful ladies in the feeder at Waddo in the late 70's or the two ladies in the Officers Mess dining room at Finningley in the early 80's

Fore!

3P:ok:

[threeputt]

Our paths probably crossed as well as I was resident at Bruggen from 85-97.

3P:ok:

[langleybaston]

Thank you. Nev Simmons is still in half-harness, the remainder [like all of us us] dispersed to the four thirds of the world ....... happy days, were they not!

[Pontius Navigator]

Although I do recall a Signals Regiment (11?) in Kosovo from Jun - Sep 99 deploying with mess silver and decent china.

A friend of mine, one time WO1 RA was part of the taceval team or whatever the brown jobs call them.

One day, somewhere near a small town in Germany, he pitched up at Cavalry unit ready for the kick-off, like 0700 or so. He found the officers at a camp table, linen, silver, waiter service seated having breakfast. Breakfast continued well past the start time. Nothing he said caused them to speed up.

He duly complained to his Col who said that tomorrow they would be ready on time. Naturally they were again having silver service breakfast but a few thunderflashes and smoke bombs sorted that out.

However I quite agree about style.

The Staish at Akrotiri before Baron Radley, Air Cdre Stacy used to collect VIPs off the early morning trooper and entertain them to breakfast, mess table, linen, silver etc, on the cliff top to watch the dawn. Carrington was one such receipient that I recall who had been en route to Singapore.

[threeputt]

Being as how ""FW" and I used to spend a fair amount of our time authorising young scrotes like you to commit flying we had a lot to do with the Bruggen Met office. Yes, local weather forecasts were excellent as the weather was usually 1000 ft cloudbase and 8k ish viz (even in the summer months). However, they were less than 100% at getting a decent UK LL forecast which, towards the end, is where the wing spent most of it's time.

Derek Nazer now there was a bloke and a half! Wonder if he had a batting person?

3P:ok:

[Wholigan]

The Met men we had at Bruggen were the very best


I have to agree - generally excellent.

However, I do have a specific memory of one met brief in the hard over the talking orange during an exercise, when met man said, "many showers around today".

Question from me: "So how many showers are we talking about?"

Met man: "Oh 3 to 4 an hour".

Me: "And how long do you expect each one to last?"

Met man: "15 to 20 minutes probably" :confused::confused::confused:

[chopd95]

W, the most useful informal met brief was always LOTFW ?

[ShyTorque]

Quote:
Any opinions about "Billy Smarts", Bahrain .....?

I think it's possibly a bit noisy in there right now....

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Whilst we're on Met Man stories...
Morning (met) briefing, RAF Laarbruch late '60's. Station Commander calls the met man forward for his briefing. He always sat at the back and it seemed like ages for him to reach the front.
He stands, surveys, and says " Fog" and returns to the back of the briefing room. The Staish, with commendable patience, waits for him to sit down and then asks if he could "expand" his briefing. Long wait whilst the Met Man returns to the front where he proclaims " effing fick fog". Room erupts in laughter, briefing cancelled and black flag run up the mast.

"Its OK sir, most my young officers have my girls,
Back to the thread, sort of, even longer ago I was interviewing a young shapely and attractive Singapore lass for a position as an Amah. She had come highly recommended by my predecessor.
"How much do you normally expect as a wage?"
"100 S Dollars per month Sir" she replied.
"100 Dollars with pleasure" I said,
"No Sir, with pleasure, 150 S Dollars".
:E

[Old Bricks]

Flight Cadets at Cranwell, after the first 6 months living in the South Brick Lines, moved into the Junior Mess blocks in small, but individual, cells, with a single civvy batman/cleaner for the whole block. He would clean but also press uniforms - badly, from memory. Once you moved into the College Mess, you met batmen of a whole different variety. Most seemed very old and had done the job forever. They were first class, not just in cleaning rooms, shoes, uniforms and civvies, but also in saving one from the wrath of the sqn SNCOs. I managed to oversleep one Wednesday morning and was only woken by the sound of the band playing as the parade marched on. It was still pitch dark, but I leaped out of bed with abject fear of what would happen. The batman, who had just come in, took in the situation in a flash, pointed out that they obviously hadn't missed me otherwise I would have been fetched, gave me a cup of tea and told me to put my boots on and go and walk around on the gravel at the back of the College. He manipulated my belt and rifle sling to look as though they had been used, and told me to mingle with the other cadets around the armoury after the parade - and to deny everything. I got away with it. The flight sergeant saw me and rewalised that he couldn't remember seeing me, but examined boots, belt and sling and had to give up.
The recommended monthly tip for a batman was 32 shillings, out of our pay of 17 shillings and 10 pence per day. He certainly got a bonus that month!

[langleybaston]

I dont know if Derek Nazer had a batman, but when he left EDUR on final retirement he bought himself a flash sports car, presumably with a gold medallion, a chest rug, and a pair of raybans thrown in.

When the Met Office was first equipped with MIST [a met data system] and it was down, he referred to his team as "blank faces glued to blank screens".

Bruggen was where Pete Tweed was shafted after he went on a jolly leaving his Merc in SMetOs sacred slot for a fortnight.
On returning late, said car was INSIDE the fenced Met enclosure.
He never ever mentioned the incident afterwards, but I told it at his Memorial Service. I don't think he larfed even then.

[Pontius Navigator]

However, they were less than 100% at getting a decent UK LL forecast which, towards the end, is where the wing spent most of it's time.

That could have been due to the C Met O, the Command forecaster. He would hold a round-stations conference call before arriving at a Comman forecast.

At morning prayers, or crew briefs, the metman would duly deliver the good news which was usually at variance with the view out of the window.

When the brief reached any questions the best was "What do YOU think?" at which point we got the accurate forecast untainted by extraneous inputs.

PS, while still on deviation, USAF crews in Ascension got their route met brief from Patrick Air Force Base. They would then visit the RAF Met Office for a proper brief.

[philrigger]

;)

I thought this thread was about BATMEN not METMEN !

Or am I missing the connection ?

[Wander00]

How did a thread on "Batmen" become a thread on "Met Officers"? Oh well - then there was the MetO at Cranwell in the mid 60s known as McCloud - stood at the front one morning announcing a a day with no cloud and unlimited visibility, as through the windows behind him the entire audience watched fog roll across the airfield!

[BEagle]

OldBricks, the batties who looked after us in our second term whilst in the JMPG blocks were stars. If you recall, we then became liable to one inspection per week, usually by the genial Sgt Les Rodda*....

One week, Les seemed more than usually benevolent. He'd been hi-jacked by the batties (led by our chap, to my shame I can't recall his name - was it Ron? It wasn't old 'Twisted John') and plied with tea laced with rum, so was feeling no pain at all when we saw him wandering around the block later.

When the batties were summoned to a meeting in 1969 to be told that henceforth their duties and pay would be scaled back, they were very sad indeed. Not so much because of the reduction in pay, but because they saw it as the end of an era - and had been told not to expect to be tipped very much by cadets any longer. I gave Ron(?) his usual 30/- and he handed me back a ten bob note, saying that £1 was now the limit. What a cruel thing 'they' had done to those wonderful old chaps.

*Les - heart of pure gold but brains of pure wood! Old Bricks, remember his comment to 'Dwarfo' when the latter wasn't in some correct drill position? "Mr Sw**, you're out of proportion, Sir!"

[langleybaston]

QUOTE: "That could have been due to the C Met O, the Command forecaster. He would hold a round-stations conference call before arriving at a Command forecast".

Sorry, totally untrue: I was a senior duty forecaster c. 1980-83 at JHQ, which did indeed have oversight of the outstation briefs but never drove a hard party line unless the man at the sharp end was inexperienced or clearly barking: a rare event. We also did routine forecasts for points east, just in case.

Soon after that, the JHQ org. was closed down and the Bruggens of this world, although line managed and inspected and butt-kicked by successive CMetOs BFG, did their own thing under the CMetO STC area forecast. Between 1989 and 1996 they did NOT confer with STC except on the rarest of occasions, and, since CMetO BFG had neither staff nor facilities to second-guess experienced and, in the main carefully selected forecasters there was little interference. The exception was Friday prayers at HQRAFG, metbriefed by talk-box from Bruggen, and attended by CMetO BFG or deputy as a matter of invariable routine. If I did not like the delivery [not the content] of the forecast, and the attention to the niceties of good manners and discipline, I was on Bruggen's doorstep pdq. With ACM Sandy Wilson as boss man, nothing less would have scraped by. I had no desire to cut short a lovely 65 month tour.

As to batmen, no, but when Mrs Metman had a cockers-p or a dinner, we sometimes asked the Mess staff via the Manager if they would like to do a private function in return for the needful. Always always excellent. RAF of course.

[langleybaston]

And c. 1965 I turned up at mass brief at Leeming 0800 on the dot [0758 of course] with an inch of snow on my shoulders and hat, with my visual material promising rain.
I waited in the snow until the Int. tipped me the wink and entered stage as a mobile visual aid and managed to clown my way out of a crap forecast ...... all my own work.
Detached to Topcliffe suddenly next Monday, or was it Acklington?

[Pontius Navigator]

LB, I was obviously referring to before your time when JHQ 'twas but a twinkle in someone's hand.

[langleybaston]

thank you: something more useful should have been held in the hand!

[cazatou]

langleybaston

If it was Acklington then your Forecast would have been "Canny Day Mun".

[Pontius Navigator]

Back on track, we had national service batties at Hullavington. That was a time when the airmens mess served unlimited quanties of chips and before tights were invented.

We never needed a knock on the door to wake us up, just the smack, smack rustle, rustle of nylons.

[Tankertrashnav]

Calm down, PN, I think that bromide's starting to wear off ;)

[Wander00]

At Crandits, Grad Ball nights, the Batties wives used to guard the entrances to the Junior Mess barrack blocks, where the girls were accommodated - shame really, they should have guarded the windows. Remember climbing out of a window and nearly breaking my neck on my instructors TR3 - anyone know what happened to Metters?

[Old Bricks]

BEagle. The batman in JR B Block was Jerry, with flat 'at and permanent fag hanging out of the corner of his mouth. Bone idle generally. I remember when we had our final inspection, all the other batmen started cleaning their blocks days in advance. Not Jerry. 0500 hrs on the day of the inspection, my room door burst open and a hoover operated by Jerry came in on full blast. He actually lifted the end of the bed with me still in it to clean underneath, and then exited to inflict himself on the next room/victim. Twisted John was in the A Sqn block.

[Tankertrashnav]

A bit off thread, but thought I might post this here, to show that the pongoes' mindeset still hasn't moved on.

Talking to my son the other night. He's a REME JNCO, and he told me that he was on duty that night, standing by to pick up a load of officers from the nearby town in a service minibus, after they had been on a night out on someone's going away do. Not an official function, but still the army thought it ok to screw up one of their NCOs' evening, not to mention misuse service transport and petrol, rather than spend a few quid each out of their not inconsiderable salaries to pay for taxis or a private hire minibus. It may be significant that he's in a tech unit where a good 50% of the officers are commissioned NCO's.

Can't imagine this happening in the RAF, even 40 years ago when I was in.

[Pontius Navigator]

Can't imagine this happening in the RAF, even 40 years ago when I was in.

Unless the MTO was in the party or it was a Det with its own MT Driver.

Our sqn MT driver would have walked on burning coals for us, anythng to avoid being returned to the MT Flight.