What's going on at Heli Air?

[toptobottom]

Quentin Smith ('Q') has gone after countless years of providing great service and PR (he of landing a 44 at the North Pole and on top of a moving car in Top Gear fame). I also hear several maintenance and admin folk have also suddenly gone, but now two more instructors, including the CFI?! :\

[g-mady]

I've been hearing (and seeing) similar things too... Don't know whats happening.
Might not be helping that R44 sales are down 90% on last year!!!

MADY

[hands_on123]

I'm sure all those R44 private owners buying an R66 will save them. An extra few hundred grand just to hear a turbine noise, is surely a good deal.

[g-mady]

who knows... bit of a gamble! Robinson have a good record but turbine/belt driven systems dont.
With an economic downturn surely private owners wont be buying anything for a while yet...

MADY

[hands_on123]

Apart from the odd "more money than sense" private owner, I am struggling to see a market in the UK for the R66, sure Heliair will use them for filming, but police/EMS? - not enough engines. Charter? Very small 5th seat, and the aircraft just looks plain ugly.

If they had made it look more attractive and gave it a proper cyclic/5th seat then maybe it will be a rival to the EC120/206/AS350.

[toptobottom]

the aircraft just looks plain ugly

I agree, but it's still a great value aircraft and although the third seat in the back is only just big enough for children, it's no worse than, say a 500.

Back on topic, I'm sure the R66's lack of style isn't behind the sudden mass exodus from Heli Air..

[g-mady]

Did "Q" have any running or ownership in the company or just operate as an instructor/pilot?

Have these people actually gone or are they moving to a new setup?

MADY

[nervouspassenger]

In addition to Q (who was a director and son of the founder), the Ops mgr of 20 years and another instructor also pushed. The CFI and at least two other instructors have since quit. Moral at a record low. Not nice at all for those involved.

[F.A.TAlbert]

toptobottom: Quentin Smith ('Q') has gone I also hear several maintenance and admin folk have also suddenly gone, but now two more instructors, including the CFI?!Suddenly? How do you know it is in fact 'sudden'. Perhaps it is nothing other than a 'normal' departure discussed following a need to tighten belts due to lack of training custom etcetera. Times are hard and becoming more so for everyone. Seems to me nothing sinister, just a common response to market forces. But you never know, do tell more if you have it.


I am not connected with them at all nor have I ever been and I don't know anything about what is going on there.

Frank

[toptobottom]

'sudden' is a fact by definition; it was without warning :}

6+ key personnel leaving within a month or so, a couple of whom have 20+ years in the saddle, would indicate to me that this is more than just market pressures. I've heard rumours of nepotism and bullying... shame on the management if that's true...

And regarding 'going to a new set up', my undestanding is that some, including the CFI, have nowhere to go to - it's that bad.

[Heliport]

toptobottom

Thanks for posting. :ok:
Seems odd to me too.


Heliport

[finals06]

Changing tack but does anyone know what is happening about Silverstone? Understand that the heliport will be OFF circuit! Hopefully that will see a big reduction in landing fees with no huge insurance premium to pay.

[Hughes500]

Spent the day at Heli Services the other day, only thing that was flying from Heliair was a 500D, I suppose at least they are flying proper helicopters !!!!!!

[Sir Niall Dementia]

It would be good to know what the hell is happening with the GP this year. No landing fees yet, and very large rumours in the industry that the FATO will not exist this year and that the "off circuit" scenario is going to happen.

[g-mady]

nowhere to go? Well the maintenance folk will have a few opportunities (granted they will have to move) especially if they are licenced.

But I suppose instructing is finally feeling the bite of the downturn?

MADY

[Grand Ops]

Plain English PPRuNe....dont make me laugh...its always cryptic here.!;) We have to keep some pride.!

I am guessing that Heliair are experieincing the same financial hardship that everyone else in our community is. Tough decisions have to be made during tough times.....and not everyone likes or wishes to stay with companies during these times.

That said, i hope that their R66 Launch goes well, and that the market place improves for all those involved with sales - afterall, sales keeps the cogs turning in our community............

RE: Grand Prix. - Yes it would be nice to have pricing, but hey, simply add 10% margin nto last years costs, and you will be safe i am sure..............most operators will have laready done this, and will already be selling their shuttle tickets like hot cakes.!!!

It will all become clearer in due course.
GO.

[strictlyrotary]

I wonder what Sir Charles thinks of the lack of man/woman management being displayed by his appointed leader??

[Grand Ops]

Strictly...
Now that's proper cryptic.......:ok:

[roboman]

Very Sad to hear that Q has left/is leaving Heliair. Hasn't really been the same since MJHS left.

[Camp Freddie]

Where has Q gone? Does he have something else yet?

CF

[g-mady]

I think we can assume Heli Air are suffering as much as every other company then?

Well I always did enjoy the show whilst having my lunch in the new Denham cafe! You always knew who was flying!

MADY

[Heliport]

What's going on at Heli Air?

Some very strange things.

Based upon what I was told today by a couple of very reliable sources around the bazaars:
A number of people have left, as TTB said in the first post. More than normal turnover in the industry.
Q has not left - but how much longer he'll be there is unknown.
For some reason, emails to Q @ HeliAir don't seem to get through to him.
It would be a wise precaution not to say anything in an email to Q that you wouldn't want read by anyone else.

I'm not free to say any more because I assured my sources I would say no more than the above.

H.

[finals06]

It would be good to know what the hell is happening with the GP this year. No landing fees yet, and very large rumours in the industry that the FATO will not exist this year and that the "off circuit" scenario is going to happen.

NO parking and NO FUEL! That should make the post race departure phase 'interesting'.

[g-mady]

yes it will be sad if the once "bussiest airspace in the world" moves off circuit!

MADY

[Whispering]

When Sean bought in he said there'd be less work some pilots due to financial constraints, while buying his 2 daughters back from Bond Offshore and giving them full time positions, as well as creating a job for one of their husbands. Nepotism yes, but the pilots that miss out are freelance so that's the business...

Pilots were told that pipeline work would get everyone involved but this has been only really done by one of the girls, the CP and with the expanding pipeline work another new pilot joined to do it rather than existing guys getting opportunities. Commitment to existing long serving guys?

Will Denham survive without Q? He is a big draw. I'm sure that if he is off then there are plenty of owners and pilots who will enable him to be very sucessful in his own right.

What about Flying TV? if all their regular piots are out of the door will they be sticking with HeliAir for pilotage / AOC work or making other arrangements?

I guess in the end if Sean can crew everything with Wellesbourne pilots he has brought in and share his vision for the company then that will suit him, a real shame to see the old HeliAir go by the wayside.

[ReverseFlight]

My suggestion for Q in an after-life ? Go East, young man (with Daddy doin' the intros). They'll treat you like God out there. :ok:

[wokkaboy]

R66 launch at the weekend...
"I have over 20,000 hours flying everything from an R22 to a 747 and this beats them all"
Sean Brown

Nothing to do with UK distributor rights then...

:hmm:

[cyclic_fondler]

At the launch on Saturday, I wonder who will be flying the R66.

Will it be Q who's one of the most experiences Robinson pilots in the UK

or

Will it be SB because he's the boss and can pull rank!!

[g-mady]

I have to second that! I remember watching "friends in high places" about Q and J Murray flying round the world. All when I was learning to fly and a real inspiration!

MADY

[Spindryer]

If you want to advertise: PPRuNe: Advertising Information - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/advertise.php)


PPRuNe Admin

[hands_on123]

You can't beat a bit of free advertising.

[finals06]

SPINtastic!

[Heliport]

Spindryer

Good username for Head of Marketing. :ok:

Fortunately, but not for you, most people in this forum can see straight through spin.

If you want to advertise: PPRuNe: Advertising Information - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/advertise.php)

[g-mady]

is it just me or has his post been removed?????????

MADY

[finals06]

Just too much SPINdryer!

[Dirty Pass]

yes it has MADY

[whodictus]

The Pipeline companys will not let just any pilot fly on the lines there is the need for experience

[Noiseboy]

So the pipeline companies accept over water IFR hours, in a big bus, spent on autopilot at 2/3000 feet as experience for flying low level VFR overland missions over the pilots with thousands of hours instructing, performing photography & filming missions and other charters, all VFR over land, in the same types as used for the lines?

Is that true and therefore an expample of the strange thinking that any hours in a twin are more valuable than relevant experience for a role?

[hands_on123]

Pipeline requirements?

What's this got to do with heli-air changes???

[g-mady]

glad to see that bus is still there :rolleyes:

All i was thinking is "practice engine failure go!"

Did Shaun pilot it?

MADY

[1helicopterppl]

When SB took over Heliair his goal was to make it a market leader in the industry run to professional standards. Clearly with the industry in its current state, he has had to make some tough decisions. People do not like 'change' & those who resist change are not going to be employed in the current climate especially if it affects the revenue of the company.

It is easy for TTB & Finals 06 to criticise but so far my experiences are that Heliair is a truly professional company with dedicated employees who all recognise the customer is King.

[hands_on123]

It is easy for TTB & Finals 06 to criticise but so far my experiences with Heliair have been dedicated employees & a truly professional company.

There are many in the industry would have had different experiences with this company.

But I guess that's the same with all UK helicopter companies.

[Heliport]

when SB took over Heliair his goal was to make it a market leader in the industry run to professional standards.

Some of us have been around long enough to know that Heliair was already 'a market leader in the industry run to professional standards' when SB took over.
People do not like 'change' & those who resist change are not going to be employed in the current climate especially if it affects the revenue of the company. Like the dedicated and long-serving people who built it up - and have left since the new regime took over?

It is easy for TTB & Finals 06 to criticise
Just like it's easy for you to post praising SB.

[helihub]

HandsOn123 - Are you aware that Heliair has some pipeline contracts - three I think?

G-MADY - yes, Sean flew it

[parasite drag]

I've no axe to grind here...'no harm no foul' and all that but as one of the throng standing in very close proximity to those blades I was surprised, to say the least, that this was allowed to happen given all the H & S directives these days :confused:

[cjbiz]

i thought the removed posts were pretty spot on and the youtube video did certainly NOT display a market leader in the industry run to professional standards

[hands_on123]

Imagine if the donk had quit and it has crashed onto the pad. Not the kind of launch the R66 needs!

[g-mady]

cjbiz :D Well said that man!

All this talk about professional airmanship and all i ever see is the opposite!

MADY

[Bravo73]

i thought the removed posts were pretty spot on and the youtube video did certainly NOT display a

FYI but all the posts concerning the youtube vid have been moved to the R66 thread:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/266788-robinson-r66-merged-threads-11.html

[Senior Pilot]

Why all the pruning?

Because this thread is about the curious goings on at HeliAir. Why long-serving people have left - including the CFI. Whether the rumours that others are about to leave are true. etc etc.

As B73 says, see http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/266788-robinson-r66-merged-threads-11.html

[SFIM]

my own experience of heli air is that there could be a lack of consistency of standards depending on who a pilot had trained with, and certain individuals seemed to just throw away the checklist and showboat there "wonderful skills".

some students would be impressed by this "exciting" flying, and others would see it as non standard and be alarmed.

I once asked a recently heliair trained PPL before a dual check to do "your normal checks" as the aircraft had been flown before that day, so they just got in and was about to start it when i suggested that possibly that was not enough :eek:

personally i am pleased that things are moving on, as i am all for standardisation and predictability without getting nerdy about it.

[hands_on123]

Wow! I'm going to all my takeoffs like that in future because it's really cool.

Do I look cool?

video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Z-FmgbFK0)

[toptobottom]

1helicopterppl
It is easy for TTB & Finals 06 to criticise

Please note I haven't criticised Heli Air, I just asked what was going on!

I've been a regular at Heli Air (Wycombe, Denham and Wellesbourne) for over 10 years. I dealt with Time Aviation and Flightworks at Wycombe before that. There are certainly some interesting characters there, as there are at all companies, but if I compare what has been achieved at, say, Wycombe with the standards set by the former tenants, there is no comparison! Heli Air is probably the most professional helicopter sales/maintenance/training organisation in the country and has (had) some of the best instructors/CPLs in the market. I can understand terminating freelancers' contracts first if the business just isn't there, but we're talking about directors resigning after many years building up Heli Air; I the think there's more to the recent changes than just the economic downturn.

[toptobottom]

BTW regarding the interesting flying by SB at the 66 launch, there must have been at least two demo flights; the first with the proud new owners. This was flown by SB and he diligently and professionally went through his checklist with new owners/pax alongside. The lift however, was slightly less professional, with one skid at least 40cm in the air before wobbling into a high hover and then a very aggressive transition.

I wasn't around for the second demo, but a towering t/o with a few hundred onlookers just yards away was not a smart move :ugh:. SB could have amazed the crowd with his massive talent by pulling the same stunt from the adjacent training area, not directly over the pad - and the crowd :}

[g-mady]

Exactly!

Like toptobottom says the same effect could easily be achieved with a bit of common sense!
As the event was well publicised I can only imagine there were 1 or 2 from the CAA in attendance...

MADY

[parasite drag]

"a towering t/o with a few hundred onlookers just yards away was not a smart move"

I do hate to be a bore..I love a bit of cool like the next man....but I was in the crowd with a 3 of my spawn....an engine or t/r failure at 50 - 60ft above us (and these freak things do happen) would've required a lot of cleaning up and hosing down....not smart :=

[Bronx]

Some light from across the pond.
According to a friend who’s been in a senior position with Robinson at Torrance for a long time ----

Frank and his son Kurt who now runs the company both have a very high respect for Cue Smith who stayed on when his father Mike sold Heliair. Problem is the new MD is an ex airline pilot so he doesn’t have Cue’s experience or standing in the helicopter world and he resents the respect people have got for Cue so excludes him whenever he can. One time Frank went out for dinner with the MD and Kurt went with Cue. F and K thought it was childish but they had to go along with it because Heliair is their customer.

Several long time personnel have left in the past year with no other job to go to because things were made so bad for them they just gave up and left. The CFI left recently and he ain't got another job lined up.

Some of them were allegedly threatened with being fired for some alleged misconduct or other if they didn’t resign.

Folk at Robinson suspect Cue has now served his purpose for the new company in the transition years and they’ll probably force him out one way or another very soon. They think its bad but there’s nothing they can do about it.

Seems to fit with what some posters here have been saying.

B.

[goldeneaglepilot]

I was at the R66 launch and agree with the negative comments about the take off. I left shortly afterwards as I felt uncomfortable watching and being so close. For a pilot with an ATPL (H) to act in such a way so close to a mixed crowd, which included prospective clients seemed a little silly. The day was about proving how well the R66 performs rather than how well (or badly) a pilot can "showboat". Hopefully the CAA will have a word and at least educate the pilot into the error of his ways. The take off could have been demonstrated at a safe distance from the crowd, with no risk to the onlookers.

In the pub later in the evening the "display" was much talked about, it was sad that everone said positive things about the R66 but failed to be so positive about the pilot and his airmanship, especially when someone mentioned he is an instructor, as well as the owner of heliair. There were also talks about previous impromtu displays by SB and the question of display authorisation....

I dont mean to turn this post into a SB bash but surely ego should be put behind safety.

[PEASACAKE]

Goldeneaglepilot

I am sure SB obtained permission for the planned air display.

[Captain Cashmere]

I am sure SB obtained permission for the planned air display.

You're sure how exactly?

[parasite drag]

err...I suspect peascake was being 'tongue in cheek' ...;)

[goldeneaglepilot]

Just had an email from a friend who was also at the display - reminding me (with his tongue in cheek) of CAP 403 - Chapter 4

4.6 Rotorcraft must not be flown in such proximity to spectators' enclosures, buildings or aircraft on the ground as to cause a possible hazard either from downwash or as a result of control difficulties. Similarly, helicopters with underslung loads should only be flown over clear areas.

5 Overflight of Spectators


5.1 Display aircraft are not permitted to overfly the spectator enclosures or Car Parks unless with the specific written permission of CAA FOI (GA). Outside the display area, normal Rules of the Air apply.
Now he says "SB would have known and complied with all the rules and is a great pilot and example to all of us, even Q could learn from him".....

It made me smile anyway :)

[helihub]

goldeneaglepilot said

the pilot and his airmanship, especially when someone mentioned he is an instructor, as well as the owner of heliair

Wrong. The owner and Chairman of Heliair is Charles Peel, who made the first and very short speech before SB took the microphone.

Also, if you want to check out who SB is, see www.xxxxxxxxxxxxr.com. I must admit, I've been trying to think of anyone else in the industry who has a vanity website address like that one!!



Link removed.
The large photograph of Mr Brown has now been removed and replaced by self-promotional blurb and an ad for Heliair.

[parasite drag]

might SB have enjoyed a pie or two since ?...no offence

[hands_on123]

http://splinteredsunrise.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/swiss.jpg

[Cows getting bigger]

Does he always have a helicopter parked on his head?

[RPM AWARE]

now where was that dictionary......:eek:

[Heliport]

helihub

You could be right but I thought Mike Smith sold two-thirds of the company to Charles Peel and then sold the remaining third to SB at a later date. (Round figures.)
As I heard it, Mike introduced SB to Heliair. I bet he regrets that now.
Agree about the big ego website. ;)


Hardy Buck

So let's forget all about minimising risks. :rolleyes:
Curious attitude from someone who's only just qualified when many experienced pilots present (including experienced professional pilots) thought it was dangerous showing off and a completely unnecessary risk to take.
I don't know much about the regulators in Ireland but if you plan on working in the UK be warned that the CAA doesn't share your cavalier attitude to bystanders/spectators.

H.

[helihub]

Heliport
My evidence is that Note 20 in Heliair's accounts of the year to March 2010 is titled "Ultimate Controlling Party" and states "The company was controlled throughout the period by Mr C E W Peel".

[goldeneaglepilot]

Its hard to seperate rumour from fact, the structure of Heliair is difficult to work out. I have been told that SB claimed to own it..... The reality is somewhat removed from that. Its not a good flying day today so I'm sat here bored. Thought looking at the Companies house website might be interesting. Its good to see that MS and Q are still directors.

The shareholding is complicated.... at face value SB holds significantly less than 30% At face value about 1.3%, in fact less than Wellington Boots ltd at 1.6% - Charles Peel owns 71%


I met MS some years ago, great person, excellent pilot and good instructor who built up a very good company. When he sold his shareholding, I like many others wondered what direction the company would take. Having met and shook the hands of the current MD and watched his display skills I can't help but feel that the ethos MS had built up in Heliair has perhaps gone. Several people have described SB as being like Marmite, you either love him or hate him - and he cares very little either way. If your praising him then he's a great guy, if you level any question or criticism then its another story.

People like Q and MS have little need to showboat in a way that places others at risk, their skills speak for themselves. MS built a very strong company, that spoke for itself.

My opinion of the display remains that it was unsafe and not a sensible demonstration in view of the risk presented to people who expected better from a professional pilot who is the Managing Director of the Company displaying it and selling it.

[1helicopterppl]

TTB. I have been reading your threads & stand corrected, you did not criticise Heliair.

My original thread tried to answer 'what is going on at Heliair ?

A fellow pruner suggested I was praising SB, far from it, I was merely trying to pass on my personal experiences with Heliair.

Its presentations under SB, eg Silverstone brief or 66 launch were very professional. I understand his long term goal for the company, but he is very much 'do it my way' & if you don't like it , tough !, Nepotism ?, almost certainly.

Reading other threads I clearly do not have the experience of the history at Heliair as others, but I do agree there is more to the recent changes than just an economic downturn which is very convenient when you want to shed staff , no matter how dedicated or experienced, who are perhaps resisiting change or do not share the same long term vision.
I reiterate, this is just my opinion, other people's experiences may well be different.

Whether SB is right, only time will tell, maybe he will have to change his website address to wwwallcock&brown@heliair........

[Epiphany]

How about www.helihair.com?

[cjbiz]

hands_on123

"Displaying in a helicopter is very much like making love to a beautiful woman..."

:D

[goldeneaglepilot]

From a self-promotion website:

Sean Brown Managing Director of Heli Air
Sean is one of the most experienced pilots in the UK having spent most of his career as Captain for British Airways.
Sean now owns Heli Air UK ....

[helihub]

14% of the shares does not constitute control of the company.

[goldeneaglepilot]

Nor is 1.3%, held by SB (from the annual return to companies house - public domain information)

Maybe 14% is the holding when you count all the family member shares

[helihub]

goldeneaglepilot

Check your PMs

[peter principle]

Whilst the 66 take off and landings might have been better done further away from onlookers please bear in mind that it was not a public event, everyone was there by invitation and the majority were pilots. Each time we pilots climb into a helicopter we are aware of the risks involved and make an informed decision to continue. Judging by posts on this and the R66 thread some onlookers made an informed decision to leave the scene but the majority decided to stay. An informed decision?

Whilst many have been only to keen to have a go at SB I note that nobody has mentioned the black R44 (at least 3 POB) which took off a few minutes before the hangar doors were opened. Given that everyone else had driven to Booker because of the weather you have to ask yourself - Was that a good decision?

[Hughes500]

PP
Your argument about being a non public event holds no water if the unfortunate happened. Yes I know the chance's of the donk failing are remote. I am afraid in this day and age you can do what you want when you want and everything is fine until something goes wrong. First question that would be asked did you do a risk assesment ! To give an example we do long line lifting with the 500's. Heli quite often hovering 100 ft above load handler, the CAA insisted that only those involved with the job should be within 50m's incase of engine/ TR failure, so what does that tell you about safety ?

[hands_on123]

The black R44's decision to fly would only likely endanger himself and his pax. SB's decision to 'showboat' when a normal takeoff would have sufficed endangered the onlookers.

[Whirlygig]

Whilst the 66 take off and landings might have been better done further away from onlookersMight?

Each time we pilots climb into a helicopter we are aware of the risks involved and make an informed decision to continue.What's with the "we"? - it's patently obvious that some pilots (past, present and future) aren't aware of the risks and do not make informed decisions.

My view is that the take-off as seen on the video earlier was not big and it was not clever: not a good advert for the company and not setting a good example. And if anyone want to call me a po-faced namby-pamby, then bring it on! :p

Cheers

Whirls

[goldeneaglepilot]

Peter Principle,

Now lets think - new name, defending SB and his actions, no public profile. Could it even be SB ??????????

:)

[toptobottom]

PP
With respect, you're talking nonsense :=

It matters not a groat whether the crowd is a public gathering or not - the point is, the 250+ invited audience was instructed to stand within 20m or so of the aircraft when the pilot unexpectedly decided to do a towering t/o. Members of the audience could have moved away but (i) I'm not sure where to since the closed hangar was behind them and (ii) I doubt they could have moved more quickly that the debris flying of a crashed R66!

This thread is about what's going on at Heli Air, not a Heli Air/SB bashing session. Given that Heli Air has worked so hard to present itself as a professional organisation, it was a shame to see that discredited with such a crass display of airmanship, particularly after all the rumours about the way it's treated its long serving staff, that's all. I would have been a lot more impressed if the towering t/o was performed 100m away in Echo, the transition was a lot less aggressive and SB didn't go IMC in front of his prospects. Cool? I think not :cool:

[hands_on123]

someone posted earlier that video reminded them of this..

YouTube - Wedding Helicopter Take Off.. with a twist (http://www.youtube.com/embed/sPfLBWrynSE)

[Cows getting bigger]

Thanks, I was having an embedding faff. :O

Yes, it does bear similarities.

[finals06]

In response to 1helicopterppl..

I asked the question 'what is happening about Silverstone' earlier on in this thread simply because HELIAIRSILVERSTONE are responsible for delivering a heliport at the circuit during the F1 GP event. There are plenty of rumours but no official word regarding the heliport, slots or landing fees. Any problem they (Heli Air) might have could soon become a problem for the rest of us!

[1helicopterppl]

TTB, an excellent post, agree with you 100%.

[1helicopterppl]

Heliair Silverstone have always understood there will be changes to a) the Heliair FATO & b) the GP FATO 2011 due to the ongoing upgrading of Silverstone circuit.

I understand that both FATO's will remain inside the circuit for 2011 but at different locations to 2010. Perhaps we should wait until after the meeting at Turweston on 1 March when hopefully Silverstone Circuits will reveal all the information required for Heliair to manage the GP FATO & announce full details for the GP in Jully 2011.

[hands_on123]

I bet Heliair management are loving this thread.

[goldeneaglepilot]

Lets hope they can step back from the "I know best, I am the best and I will show everone how good I am" attitude which has been the downfall of many businesses and can address the weakness and build on the strengths. If I was CP then I would wonder how much the action of others is undermining and devaluing (my shareholding) in what had been a great business rather than enhancing it.

Heliair historically was a good company, it appears from the posts of many to be having a rough time now, lets hope they can learn and turn that around before its too late. In my experience, the greatest asset to a company is how they react to criticism and move forward from it. Ego has no place in a good company, it should depend on a good team capable of listening to what is being said and adopting and growing from it.

People will never totally agree as to the best way to do something, a skilled business man / manager uses the skills of a strong team to take direction, always respecting the most important person in the equation - the customer.

A professional, consistant approach will always pay dividends (and save a lot of money due to law suits over dismissals or disgruntled clients). I am speaking in general business terms rather than speculating that this is happening at Heliair.

I am sitting on the fence but guess that the next few weeks will decide the future of Heliair, SB's display has raised lots of questions about the ethos towards professionalism and the future. Most people (customers) in my experience in this situation don't make a noise, they vote with their feet and take business elsewhere, avoiding bringing controversy and avoidable hassle into their own busy lives.

[cladosporangium]

goldeneaglepilot.

I agree with you.

It's strange (or should that be eyrie, geddit?) that everything in your last post could be written about Sterling Helicopters.

(read thread on East Anglia Air Ambulance)

They all show scant regard for the customer.:ugh:

Not clever.

[Whirlygig]

that everything in your last post could be written about Sterling Helicopters.I think not. Sterling Helicopters' ethos is very different to that of Heliair's and the reasons behind each of their current difficulties is also very different.

Cheers

Whirls

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Different companies, different owners but remarkably similar styles of
(mis-)management.

At last years' Spring Brief few, if any of the people I saw afterwards were impressed either by SB or his speech.

The disaster in charge of Longmint left a similar impression on another occasion.

[Maninknow]

I will comment on the R44 departure just prior to the R66 flights. Madness and insanity. A Celebs aircraft with him on board. A CPL/Instructor and previous owner of his own helicopter company who should have more sense and two other pax. Have none of them seen or heard all the previous accident reports of Bad Weather flying Killing people. I could not believe what I was seeing. And as far as I can ascertain they were back off to Gloucester where they had arrived from about an hour earlier in just as poor conditions. Plain Madness and they should know better and be ashamed of themselves.

As for the R66 Launch. Great presentation and first class catering/drinks provision. Just a shame that it was spoilt so seriously by similar stupidity of taking off in such close proximity to so many un-protected people. If it had gone wrong it would have been carnage. Show the machine off by all means but do not try to be clever and show off yourself and your piloting abilities without taking the proper precautions to ensure the safety of your invited guests.

Me personally. I stood in the Hangar behind the closed section of door. I care for my Limbs and Life.

[zip]

There are so many miserable comments on here ....amazing ..

The R66 is a great machine and the first truly new affordable product since the R44. Cost to run is very sensible too.

The Heli Air launch was excellent ....I do not think many people would go to the effort SB did.

Let's have some gratitude and a bit of cheer for Frank's invention !!

[Heliport]

zip

You have posted only 6 times.
Almost all those posts have extolled the virtues of Robinsons, HeliAir and SB.

The regulars on this forum aren't stupid and will undoubtedly realise that you have a very close association with HeliAir and with SB.

:rolleyes:

[helihub]

zip - his thread is not dissing the R66, but there are plenty of comments about the level of airmanship shown by someone flying Europe's first R66 at an event he was hosting. There have also been various notes on his approach to HR processes.

The R66 launch event was proportionate to the profit they will likely make from the sales - "the reveal" was well choreographed, the hospitality was great and visitors came from at least as far as Cork (yes, to sample *that* weather!!). I see the other dealer is doing a tour right around UK and Eire with theirs.

[hands_on123]

Once all the R66 launch fuss has died down and the 10-15 "look at me" private owners have bought their toys, will the R66 be enough to save HeliAir?

That is the $64,000 question.

They hardly sold any R44s in 2009-2010 so who are these people who are going to buy the R66?

[Hughes500]

Zip

How naive you are to believe any manufacturer as to what his machines cost to run, especially those with no history.

[Heliport]

Latest News

Another one gone .....

I've been reliably informed that Quentin Smith resigned from HeliAir Ltd on the 4th March and is no longer associated in any way with the company.



End of an era.
Q and Mike Smith built up a very successful company and, under their leadership, the 'old' HeliAir used to be the most consistently recommended UK helicopter school.

H.

[Bronx]

Pilots don't just leave their jobs for no reason especially at a time when it's not easy to get another job but it's hard to stay where your not wanted. Nobody wants to go to work and be miserable every day.

From what I've read on this thread and heard elsewhere the new regime wanted the old Heliair guys out and made life miserable for them, changing their jobs, taking away their responsibilities, threatening to fire them for some misdemeanour etc etc.

If what's been said on this thread about the new MD's mega ego is even half true it's not surprising he'd want this high profile guy out of the way.

[Whispering]

And if you would like to work for Sean, see their website for employment opportuities including full time and freelance pilots. Just a further suggestion that the mass exodus has nothing to do with a lack of work.

[Sliding Doors]

Work for SB?

Frankly, I'd rather eat my own poo.

[zip]

Amazing the comments on here! SO uninformed.






Post removed.
(Yet another post by a friend of Sean Brown's attempting to promote HeliAir.)

:rolleyes:

[Hughes500]

Zip

Q would have shown more professionalism in front of the crowd who came to see the best thing since sliced bread.:yuk:

[zip]

:zzz: same old stuff ....the launch was a great day for 99% of us.

[Flingingwings]

Yes some people have left Heli Air. But when people leave it is always for good reason

Perhaps you should try telling that line to my friend whom used to work for Heliair :hmm:

Experienced onshore pilot, experienced FI, clean flying record...........
Availability provided to Heliair, only to have his name simply not appear on the flying availability list. After many years with Heliair he didn't even warrant a phonecall :( What he did warrant was a full retail invoice for a base check that Heliair had asked him to complete :ugh:

In the meantime Heli Air are busy selling helicopters and recruiting good pilots and instructors.

Are you implying that Heliair 'let go' pilots and instructors that were no good?

Whether rumours of poor staff treatment are correct or not, I'd be surprised if established experienced staff flock to Heliair.

So perhaps you'd stop 'the same old stuff too' ?

[Heliport]

zip says:
Amazing the comments on here! SO uninformed. The contributors to this forum may be many things, but they are not uninformed.

Yes some people have left Heli Air. But when people leave it is always for good reason.I repeat: The contributors to this forum may be many things, but they are not uninformed.


zip obviously didn’t believe me when I wrote on the 14th March: zip
You have posted only 6 times.
Almost all those posts have extolled the virtues of Robinsons, HeliAir and SB.

The regulars on this forum aren't stupid and will undoubtedly realise that you have a very close association with HeliAir and with SB.

Some of his posts have been removed. Here are some examples -

23rd Jan 2011:
“Does anyone have an update on the R66 ?
Seems there are a huge number of people waiting to buy one .....”
Seems like a genuine and innocent question - unless you know that zip is a businessman whom Sean Brown describes as his ‘mentor’ and “a consummate entrepreneurial professional”. ;)

Same date, different thread: Blatantly promoting/advertising HeliAir. :rolleyes:

14th March 2011:
“Flown it / power is great / speed good / cost to run is awesome - potentially cheaper than an R44!” (His plug for HeliAir was deleted.)

Same date:
“The Heli Air launch was excellent .... I do not think many people would go to the effort SB did."
According to professional pilots on this forum, what SB demonstrated at the launch was ego, inexperience in helicopters and poor airmanship - to the alarm of those with enough experience to recognise the obvious danger.


H.