Jobs

[pma 32dd]

I've just seen an advertisement for EFTS instructors paying.....

21K

I'm sure that will attract the cream of instructors to train future pilots.

[kharmael]

I get the impression that it's a job designed for former military aircrew mates looking to top up their pensions. :ok:

[davejb]

I got half offered a job once over, by a civvy outfit, and when I said 'that's not that high a pay packet' I was told 'it's okay, add on your pension and you're on pretty much the same pay as you are now'.

I said "yes, but I've already earned my pension, I'm not about to donate it as some sort of top up for a derisory pay offer" - didn't hear anything more about the potential job.

Only an idiot would take this sort of offer, but I'll bet you now they have more idiots than slots available....

As the TO implies, you might not get the sharpest knives in the drawer as a result, but as I expect the current hierarchy figure a pilot is a pilot is a pilot then I doubt they'll worry about the quality of instruction.

Dave

Biggles pulled down his goggles and turned on the clattery thing whatsit at the front, while an airman pulled the fan thing around a bit before giving it a mighty swing.

The fan spun jolly quickly - the aircraft bumped across the grass and was soon airborne, and Biggles yanked on the sticky up bit until the nose pointed roughly towards the trenches, whilst pointing up a bit to avoid hitting trees and stuff.

Unknown to Biggles his arch nemesis, Von Schlaggenteufel (the "Blue Baron") was already waiting up sun and preparing to swoop down on the gallant Englishman....

Unaware of his danger, Biggles tweaked a few knobs and tits until the engine settled down to a raucous bellow....

(Excerpt from 'Biggles learns to fly, on the cheap' (c) Capt W E Johns, 1924)

[cazatou]

This sort of thing has happened before and I must confess that I was extremely lucky to have been on the last Course at ITS in 1965 that did not go down the route of "Elementary Flying Training" prior to Basic Training. The failure rate of those who, having done a few hours on Chipmunks, were then sent on a shortened BFTS Jet Provost Course caused a severe blockage in the "Training Pipeline".

[Captain Sand Dune]

Here in Oz a civvy outfit (I'll give you one guess who!) does the ab initio phase of our pilot training. They get paid about 2/3 of what a senior FLTLT gets. According to the last advertisement I saw, they don't necessarily need to be ex-military QFIs, or have things like an instrument rating or experience in formation or low nav (and yes,thy're in the syllabus).

[Runaway Gun]

Oh dear, so do those same instructors get taught those techniques, before passing them on? Or are they only utilised for certain areas of flight?

[Captain Sand Dune]

They do, but that's not really the point. Something about street cred springs to mind.

[BEagle]

When this poverty-stricken nonsense of contractorised EFTS first started in the UK, a very senior ex-Bulldog A1 QFI applied for a post with them. On his 'check flight', he had to take control from the company pilot who was supposed to be demonstrating how to teach formation, to show how it should be taught.

Another experienced ex-QFI joined the company, only to find that the payscales they'd indicated were for one or two 'flight commanders' - everyone else received nothing like the amount stated. He soon left.

Guidance has always been that any company, which assumes that their salary offer is based on the applicant already having a service pension, should be avoided like the plague.

With the Power of PPRuNe, it won't be difficult for those companies which offer derisory salaries to be identified and 'blacklisted' on the old mates network.

Incidentally, I once asked the MD of a well-known and highly respected civil training outfit how many ex-military QFIs he had applying for instructor jobs with him. "None for years", was his reply, "They all go to the airlines"....

Under the nonsense of MFTS, at least all prospective instructors will have to meet CFS standards. Although CFS insist that their standards will remain as high as ever, I wonder just how much pressure would be placed on them from on high if they kept failing aspirant MFTS instructors?

[cazatou]

Just to put this into perspective - when the RAF adopted the de Havilland Chipmunk as its ab initio trainer in 1950 it took delivery over 3 years of 740 aircraft.

15 years later in July 1965 the Chipmunk was re-introduced for the ab initio training of direct-entry pilots in the Primary Flying Squadron at South Cerney as a preliminary to initial jet training on Jet Provosts at an FTS.

How many times are MOD going to re-invent the wheel?

[ShyTorque]

At least once more after that!

EFTS on SEP aircraft reverted to BFTS "jet only" in the 1970s. All pilots went straight on to the Jet Provost after officer training.

I later found myself instructiing on (military staff only) RAF EFTS flying the Bulldog as the Tucano was introduced as the "basic" trainer replacement and everything went into the melting pot once more. At this time, the RN were using the Bulldog for EFTS whilst the RAF brought back the Chipmunk for that role.

All very confusing.

[aw ditor]

Back to the Avro 504 and the Gosport tube?

[cazatou]

I think we could go for a higher Spec such as the Avro Tutor!!

[Pontius Navigator]

I would imagine that the low salary would appeal to those ex-Service on a pension who relished the opportunity fly anything, to have a job in an area where there may be less jobs, and as a holding job waiting for something better.

As is suggested, it is easier to get a job if you have a job.

[blagger]

Welcome to market forces at play - how many pilot trainees in coming years? how many people leaving in that area looking for jobs? how many civvy FIs that would quite happily fly a Tutor and get that money? I don't think they'll struggle for applicants.