Qantas paid Jetconnects' bills, hearing told

[breakfastburrito]

Qantas paid Jetconnects' bills, hearing told
Marcus Priest, Mark Skulley and Lisa Allen


A New Zealand subsidiary of Qantas Airways that employed pilots had no bank account of its own and relied on its parent to pay all its bills, according to evidence in an industrial dispute between Qantas and a pilots' union.

Jetconnect was established by Qantas in 2001 to operate domestic flights in New Zealand, but has since taken over most of the parent's trans-Tasman flights.

The Australian and International Pilots Association has a long running case before Fair Work Australia and is arguing that Jetconnect staff should be covered by the same award as Qantas short-haul pilots.

Evidence has emerged in hearings that Jetconnect lacked accounts. Qantas has claimed Jetconnect is a New Zealand operation with New Zealand employees and is not controlled by Qantas.

The Australian Council of Trade Unions has intervened arguing that Jetconnect is a “sham arrangement”, which disguised the fact that the true employer of the New Zealand pilots and crew is Sydney-based Qantas.

“This is an important case that would set a precedent against Australian companies seeking to avoid Australian awards and labour laws by setting up shell companies whether in Australia or offshore,” said ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence.

The outcome of the case is crucial for Qantas, which has been open about setting up offshore bases for pilot to help fight intense international competition and has been lobbying the federal government in recent weeks. Pilots based in Singapore, for example, are used by Jetstar, Qantas's fast-growing budget carrier.

It emerged at the Fair Work hearing last week that Jetconnect's chief executive, Paul Daff, had little control over his company's operations and Qantas moved money in and out of its accounts without consulting Jetconnect.

Asked about a one-off dividend of $67 million Jetconnect is reported to have paid Qantas in January, Mr Daff said no money was transferred and he did not have any role in determining the dividend.

“Ultimately the vast majority of it would have come from Qantas,” Mr Daff said. “It was a book entry.”

He also conceded that Qantas paid Jetconnect pilots their wages directly. Qantas owns all the Jetconnect aircraft, and the subsidiary's employees were trained in Melbourne by the parent company.

Flight planning was contracted to Qantas by Jetconnect. The parent paid all the bills for its subsidiary and set its budget.

“The physical cash is paid by Qantas and we process it into our accounts,” Mr Daff said.

Pressed for details of the company's bank account Mr Daff said he was unable to say how much money was in it. Nor was he able to name all of the companies three directors, who are Qantas executives, and he conceded he was unaware the company did not have its own website.

“But I am separate from Qantas” Mr Daff said.
“We're a wholly-owned subsidiary, but on a day-to-day basis we're managed and operated independently.”

Qantas regional general manager for New Zealand, Grant Lilly, conceded that Jetconnect did not have its own bank accounts and employee entitlements were accounted for as liabilities in Qantas's account.

Mr Lawrence said the evidence showed that Jetconnect was not a real airline. “It is a subsidiary wholly owned and controlled by Qantas – a shell company in other words,” Mr Lawrence said.

“By using this sham arrangement, Qantas is claiming to be entitled to pay wages that are less that the award, and almost 40 per cent lower than they would be obliged to pay under the Qantas [enterprise] agreement.

“This is despite the fact that the evidence shows that the pilots are trained by Qantas, wear Qantas uniforms, and fly Qantas planes on Qantas routes bearing the Qantas logo, Qantas even pays the pilots their wages direct into their bank.”

Yesterday, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said the pilots association had gone too far in its campaign.

“It's a normal course of industrial relations but that's becoming very personal, I think it's very aggressive and I think it's very over the top,” Mr Joyce said.

“I think it takes the industrial relation discussion to, unfortunately, a new low.”

A Qantas spokesman said the ACTU knew full well that “Jetconnect is a New Zealand-based airline, with New Zealand pilots flying aircraft on the trans-Tasman route under a collective agreement made with the NZ pilots unions”.

Workplace expert Andrew Stewart said the Fair Work Act applied to employees working in Australian, including if they worked for foreign corporations, and applied to Australian-based employees who worked overseas for an Australian employer.

Professor Stewart, of the University of Adelaide, said the law did not apply to foreign workers who were hired and based overseas, even if their employer was in Australia. It also did not apply to workers who came to Australian to perform their duties.

In some cases, foreign crew of ships in Australian waters are covered by the Fair Work Act, but only because of special regulations.

----------------------------Breakout box from article---------------------
Running on empty
Cross examination of Paul Daff, chief executive of Jetconnect, a Qantas subsidiary in New Zealand, on February 3
Pilots Association barrister ARTHUR MOSES, SC Paul Daff

How many bank accounts does it have? I believe it has one.
With which bank? I believe it is with the Bank of New Zealand.
When you say you believe, do you know for a fact? No, I don't
Are you a signatory to that account? No, I'm not.
Who is a signatory to that bank account? My finance manager.
Do you know how much money is held in that account? No, I don't.
Have you ever asked about how much money is in that bank account? No.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Australian Financial Review, page 7, Friday 11 February 2011

[ozbiggles]

Well that explains why a ZK registration aircraft can have "sprit of Australia" written on the side off it then.......
That alone shows how out of touch the Qantas board are. If you ever get a chance go to one of their Shareholder bluffs....I mean meetings, you should go. You thought our pollies could spin, wait to you witness Mr Clifford and Co in action.

[schlong hauler]

An absolutely damning indictment of what goes on within QF management. Whether AIPA wins the case or not the evidence of the sham setup has been made public for all to see. This is indicative of the management culture that we are battling. I can't believe how stupid they are looking right now. God only knows how J* books are really cooked. Love the bit about 65 million going into the Jetconnect account then transferred back out to make it look like legitimate earnings. Where there is smoke there is fire and at the moment QCCs arse is on fire. Brilliant timing using the 60 minutes segment on Sunday evening, the Jetconnect sham court hearing and possible protected industrial action taking place all within a week. Plus the engineers win against the management thugs. Now I am engaged.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

And another Question, is Alan Joyce and co. not only trying to circumvent Australian industrial laws but also Australian Tax laws with these Shame companies????

[breakfastburrito]

If Qantas should win this case, its a green light to companies to use the same loophole, leading to tax leakage from both personal & company tax. How long will the Federal Government sit by and watch its revenue drain with the baby boomers starting to retire? Not long I suspect. Another headache for Gillard.

[whatever6719]

Well I reckon if there is any justice left in the world, this sham/scam should be
finished off .. or am I being naive?
The question is, if the case goes against the company, will the flying come back to us over here at mainline, or will they just pay the kiwis more??

[Worrals in the wilds]

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it will be interesting to see what FWA's decision is. Either way, that's some nasty publicity to be getting in the AFR.


Well that explains why a ZK registration aircraft can have "spirit of Australia" written on the side of it then.......

Maybe "chequebook of Australia" would be more accurate :}

[gobbledock]

If Qantas should win this case, its a green light to companies to use the same loophole, leading to tax leakage from both personal & company tax. How long will the Federal Government sit by and watch its revenue drain with the baby boomers starting to retire? Not long I suspect.

There is only one thing a government cares more about other than its own self interested egotistical pollies and the juicy fat wages, conditions and superannuation they draw and that is - income tax. The government is inept, incompetent and useless in all fields, departments and processes except its beloved untouchable self effacing ATO. If the ATO so much as smell a waft of revenue dripping elsewhere but in the Australian backyard they will be crawling all over The Rat quicker than The Leprepchaun crawling over broken glass and a fire ant nest to grab his next unwarranted and farcical bonus.

[Devil Dog]

Finally we are getting to the guts of the issue..the Oz public should be outraged and the ATO should be onthe case taxes not being paid to the country...total fraud...AIPA start thinking laterally!! get the ATO and the public to do your barking..woof woof!!

[gobbledock]

Running on empty
Cross examination of Paul Daff, chief executive of Jetconnect, a Qantas subsidiary in New Zealand, on February 3
Pilots Association barrister ARTHUR MOSES, SC Paul Daff
How many bank accounts does it have? I believe it has one.
With which bank? I believe it is with the Bank of New Zealand.
When you say you believe, do you know for a fact? No, I don't
Are you a signatory to that account? No, I'm not.
Who is a signatory to that bank account? My finance manager.
Do you know how much money is held in that account? No, I don't.
Have you ever asked about how much money is in that bank account? No.

Wow, a Chief Executive that really is in tune with his company I see. Doesn't know about the most important of finances, how much is this goon being paid ? I think the finance accountant should be Chief Executive as it appears only he knows what is going on !
Funny how the accountable managers always pull a 'Sargent Shultz' and know nothing about their company when they are put in the spotlight. Sounds like a familar patern by now doesn't it, freight fixing, account shuffling and so the list goes on.

[The The]

Imagine this:

Running on empty
Cross examination of A Pilot, Captain - Shonky Airlines, a Qantas subsidiary, on February 3
CASA barrister P NUTTS, SC N IDEA
How many fuel tanks does your aircraft have? I believe it has one.
With what do you fill this fuel tank? I believe it is AVGAS or some liquid that burns.
When you say you believe, do you know for a fact? No, I don't
Did you confirm the fuel quantity before depature? No, I did not.
Who confirmed the fuel quantity before departure? I do not know.
Did you know how much fuel was in the tanks? No, I did not.
Have you ever asked about how much fuel is in the tanks? No.


How long would Mr A PILOT last?

[OhForSure]

This is a disgrace. Qantas management MUST presume we, the public, are all utterly ignorant and devoid of any individual brain power. There is one reason and one reason only for the offshoring and outsourcing of Aussie jobs: reduced labour costs.

QF is paying full cost for everything except labour! But don't let the public know... if it looks like a Qantas pilot, it MUST be a Qantas pilot. WAKE-UP AUSTRALIA! You're being fooled.

When Joyce claimed “I think it takes the industrial relation discussion to, unfortunately, a new low” he finally got something right. Shame he didn't intend it to sound that way. :E

[cynphil]

Qantas..being a company traded on the Australian share market...there should be legal procedures going on due to the deceptions of where the dividends come from?? Where did the 67 million dollar dividend really come from?.As the CEO of Jetconnect says...it wasn't real...I am sure it was Qantas mainline!......just done that way to show the shareholders that Jetconnect is paying it's way!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like someone should go to jail over this!!!!! Where is the ASX while this is being reported?

[-438]

This Qantas management believe they are far above the Australian public. As employees we all suspected they have dodgy accountancy practices. About time some media with balls investigated dealings in private equity takeovers, freight cartels & subsidiary LCCs profitability despite their legacy financiers supposed anchor on the ledger.

[balance]

Jeeeeez.

If you take this to a logical conclusion, it doesn't bode well for Qantas. We may be fighting this battle as Qantas pilots, but if this is as shonky as it appears, then our jobs may be at greater risk than just being given to Jetconnect / Jetstar / Any Other Butthole who will do it for cheaper.

We may need to be careful what we wish for.

In any event, this is clearly shameful behaviour. Where is scrotum face now? His silence is deafening. Geoff? Geoff? Where are you son?

[whatever6719]

Anyone hazard a guess as to what will happen to all that trans Tasman flying if QF lose the case before FWA?? Will it come back to mainline or will they pay Jetconnect Aussie wages?

[roger_ramjet]

Fundamentally this is the same issue as Jet* and Qlink - they operate at a much lower cost base than mainline and so make more money and remain financially viable in the process.
If all Qantas subsidiary employees were paid at mainline rates then the whole group would be bankrupt within a year, and certainly could not compete with the domestic or international competition. The whole world is moving to LCC/value based airline business models, Qantas subsidiaries are currently propping up mainline and delaying the inevitable. Let's be honest, mainline pilots know this - that's why they're fighting so hard for job security clauses in their negotiations, as mainline will soon only exist where it is finacially viable to run a full service legacy airline, only on a handfull of trunk routes both domestically and internationally. Everything else will be done with a subsidiary company at a much lower cost base - Jetconnect doing trans-tasman, Jet* doing price sensitive leisure travel both domesticaly and internationally, and Qlink covering a lot of mainline 737 routes and regional connections in something like a C series jet.

[Poto]

If all Qantas subsidiary employees were paid at mainline rates then the whole group would be bankrupt within a year, and certainly could not compete with the domestic or international competition

This is not the proposal being made by the LH pilot body.

[QFinsider]

ASIC should be all over this, the mind boggles on how many breaches of the accounting standards/corporate governance this will throw up..

Naturally the little bog irishman will claim no knowledge!

[balance]

Fundamentally this is the same issue as Jet* and Qlink - they operate at a much lower cost base than mainline and so make more money and remain financially viable in the process.


Fundamentally, the issue is that there are imposters from another country being paid half as much and purporting to be Qantas pilots. Qantas is perpetuating this notion, trading on such, apparently using shonky accounting procedures, and deceiving the Australian public.

That is the issue. Not the cost base.

[schlong hauler]

Fundamentally perused last years financial report and there is no mention that I could find of revenue or profit from Jetconnect. In fact Jetconnect is only mentioned several times which was all very odd. No seperate breakdown of ASKs or EBIT nothing zip zilch to chew on. The amount Qantas saves by having this nefarious setup sham is bugger all considering shorthaul 737 pilots aren't doing much and could easily do 10 hours per month more! Same for the 767 even more so. What's the real reason. Industrial tension and leverage for 787 crewing. That's the perhaps the underlying game plan IMHO. Even cheaper than J*. How do you get a Qantas Jet command in less than 5 years? Easy join Jetconnect and bypass our selection process and 10-15 years minimum as a S/O and then F/O prior to command. Can't understand why we would be pissed off.

[Ken Borough]

What's the real reason.

Probly all started some years ago when QF realised that aircraft and crews were more productive on Tasman services when based in Noo Zulland - sinple as that. It's not rocket science but it doesn't work in favour of Australian based employees when the aim of the game is to make money!

[max1]

they will be crawling all over The Rat quicker than The Leprepchaun crawling over broken glass and a fire ant nest to grab his next unwarranted and farcical bonus.

The AB Patterson award for imagery goes to........


Gobbledock

Take a bow.....

['holic]

.... they operate at a much lower cost base than mainline and so make more money and remain financially viable in the process .... Qantas subsidiaries are currently propping up mainline and delaying the inevitable.Ok .... this time, read the article in the OP, you see the one at the top of page 1, and come back and tell us if you still believe what you just typed.

How do you get a Qantas Jet command in less than 5 years? Easy join Jetconnect and bypass our selection process and 10-15 years minimum as a S/O and then F/O prior to command.When I did the Command Management course a few years back it was with about 20 mainline and 4 Jetconnect guys. The mainline guys had about an average of 15 years experience. 2 of the Jetconnect pilots had been in the company for 18 months. The most experienced JC pilot had been in for 3 years.

[regitaekilthgiwt]

If all Qantas subsidiary employees were paid at mainline rates then the whole group would be bankrupt within a year,

I can't believe some of the stuff I read on these forums. I am sure if all Qf subsidiaries employees were paid mainline rates the company would not go broke, it would not help the bottom line but it certainly wouldn't go broke ffs. Over the last few years they have had to pay millions in fines and exec wages, fuel have been more expensive etc, however, wow, not broke. Give me a break, pilots wages are not the be all and end all of what makes an airline tick, they are a very small percentage. Does anyone remember a few years ago we made over a billion dollars and at the time most pilots employed were on the long haul award. Shock horror. :rolleyes:

The problem as to why Qantas is in trouble now is due to years of mismanagement by people from the board level down who do not have a clue what they are doing.


Having said the above to correct the ranting of the lunatic I quoted above: Make no mistake, the only thing the mainline body of Qantas pilots wants is job security. That is all.

[John Citizen]

Qantas ‘We also call Auckland home’ – Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/02/13/qantas-we-also-call-auckland-home/)

Qantas ‘We also call Auckland home’ – Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/02/13/qantas-we-also-call-auckland-home/)

Qantas ‘We also call Auckland home’
February 13, 2011 – 11:55 am, by Ben Sandilands


Qantas will be a big story this week because of pilot anger over pay negotiations, because of signals from management that international is bleeding money, and because of the filing of its half year to December 31 financial results this Thursday morning.

But there is another element, the Jetconnect case that has been brought against Qantas in Fair Work Australia.

Jetconnect, which is a 100 per cent owned NZ subsidiary, has taken over the routine full service Qantas flying between Australian and New Zealand in Boeing 737-800s.

This is a very important case. So much so Qantas is said to have directly approached politicians in Canberra to consider changes to laws that apply to foreign based Qantas pilots if it loses.

The fair reporting of legal disputes is difficult to assure in contemporary media.

In the legacy media, the evidence given in a case in an open hearing is privileged, but the media can be held to account for fair and accurate reporting, requiring both sides of the hearing to be reported, which in part heard cases or reserved (pending) decisions, no longer happens because the media, in 99 per cent of cases, cannot afford court reporters who will spend all day in a hearing.

If the Qantas ‘dingo’ had taken the union ‘baby’ this would not be a problem. Every syllable would be printed. We might even get televised proceedings.

So at this stage, a commentary on the Jetconnect case would be unfair. It will only become fair when a balanced account of a Fair Work Australia decision is published in the media, or made available on line in full, whenever a ruling is made.

What follows is an attempt to be fair.

The case which is in its closing stages was brought by the Australian and International Pilots Association against Qantas alleging that Jetconnect, which flies jets in Qantas colors between Australia and New Zealand, is a shell company set up to evade the terms and conditions of Australian awards by pretending to be a New Zealand subsidiary of the Qantas group.

It claims that this allows Qantas to export what were Australian jobs to New Zealand and save 40 per cent off the labor expense.

Qantas counter claims that Jetconnect is a New Zealand operation not controlled by Qantas but which employs pilots based in New Zealand.

However early this month Jetconnect’s chief executive officer, Paul Daff, told Fair Work Australia that the NZ company did not have any of its own bank accounts that he could remember, that Qantas moved funds into and out of the company without reference to himself, and that employees, which include Australian pilots living in New Zealand, were paid directly by Qantas.

The pilots are trained by Qantas, wear Qantas uniforms, and fly in jets painted in Qantas livery which are owned by Qantas.

It is fair to say that if the pilot union wins the case it could collapse the Qantas strategy of basing Australian registered Jetstar A330 jets, and its future 787 fleet, in Singapore to be flown by Australian and non Australian pilots under Singaporean labor arrangements.

This Thursday’s half yearly results briefing for media and analysts is shaping up a trying one for Qantas group CEO Alan Joyce.

He has already announced that international Qantas services are unsustainable and complained about foreign competition.

However Qantas is also caught up in problems of its own making, including failed fleet planning oversight, poor networking and scheduling decisions, and the loss of control over the quality and competency of heavy engine overhauls on Rolls-Royce power plants.

[Mr. Hat]

Is it just my imagination or are some of the various "managers" in this industry engaging in white collar crime? We're attracting all the dregs of the Cornflakes Management School. All the losers that couldn't get into Leighton or BHP. Bullying, fudging figures, cartels and inflating share prices. Its not just at QF might I add.

Unfortunately in Orztralia this gets ignored by the likes of ASIC, CASA or the ATO. They prefer individual tax paying citizens as they don't have as much money to back themselves in a fight (occasionally they pick the wrong individual and thats been a source of a hearty belly laugh). Wasn't it FMG recently that pulled ASIC's pants down and gave them a good bare bottom spanking with some reasonably good lawyers? Its all about the image, bottom line and financial backing and not justice. I think Paul Hogans having a go now with the ATO. Pants down.

I'd like to see 4 Corners and/or a Xenophon type expose these types one by one. A nice big electron microscope on every single dollar, trade and industrial agreement. A team of forensic accountants that travel from company to company auditing the figures mums and dad base their day trading on.

Who knows maybe its time for a few people to visit the big house.

[Mstr Caution]

Jetconnect - The airline without engineers!

As Qantas engineers are off to Seattle to pick up the new 737's.

Air NZ engineers maintain & dispatch Jeconnect from NZ, Qantas Engineers maintain & dispatch Jetconnect from Australia.

Curious who pays those wages & maintenance bills?

[NZScion]

I'm pretty sure Air NZ won't be doing it for free if that's what you meant :E

[radar vectored]

Seeing that Qantas owns the aircraft it seems that Qantas engineers going to Seattle to pick them up would be a great idea!

[kiwilad]

Had heard a similar rumour from inside Jetconnect that management has been dropping the 787 into conversation.
It will be interesting to see the outcome in Oz of the FWA, do they have the coconuts or will the pollies balls it up.

My understanding is if AIPA win, and after countless appeals still win, then the flying will remain at Jetconnect, but some security/growth/seniority provisions will ensure that continued outsourcing will stop and current levels maintained.

Good luck AIPA with your fight for security provisions as this is one you can not afford to lose.:ok:

[tenretni]

Nice theory Kiwilad,

One problem though, is that this case is to be determined by a full bench of the commission so that there is no appeals process available.

The ruling whatever it may be will be binding and final.;)

[Ero-plano]

Fingers crossed that FWA see's sense and the right decision is made for the sake of every QF/Q-Link/JQ staff member.
This also extends to every other Australian industry who relies on their Aussie "name" and "spirit" to build a great and reputable buisness then decide to say, thanks Australia I'm now moving OS now where everything is cheaper, but still call themselves Australian.

[mcgrath50]

Like Vegemite, Arnotts and most of Holden right? :E

[ACT Crusader]

One problem though, is that this case is to be determined by a full bench of the commission so that there is no appeals process available.

The ruling whatever it may be will be binding and final


Exactly tenretni.

Does anyone know where this is up to. Last I heard there was supposed to be a hearing on the 23rd of Feb.

[4dogs]

Folks,

I don't think there is any legal jurisdiction in Australia that gives "final and binding" judgements other than the High Court, certainly not any Commission or Tribunal.

Stay Alive,

[Popgun]

Anyone know when a ruling is due to be made?

[ACT Crusader]

Anyone else read Steve Creedy's article in The Australian today. Summarising a few points from teh ACTU submission to the FWA matter

ACTU hits out over Qantas offshore jobs | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/actu-hits-out-over-qantas-offshore-jobs/story-e6frg95x-1226023451545)


THE ACTU has has made a final plea to Fair Work Australia to "put a brake" on attempts to use artificial corporate arrangements for offshore jobs and avoid Australian award requirements.

In its final submission in a test case between the Australian and International Pilots Association and Qantas New Zealand subsidiary Jetconnect, the ACTU said evidence had borne out its suspicions that the New Zealand operation was a "sham employer" and its pilots were actually employed by Qantas.

"This case will set an important precedent on the offshoring of Australian jobs and the avoidance of award entitlements through the use of artificial corporate arrangements," the submission says.
"The ACTU urges the tribunal to put a brake on these practices by granting the remedy sought by the applicants."

The case is the latest chapter in a long-running dispute between the airline and its pilots about job security and moves to set up overseas subsidiaries.



The pilots argue the moves are an attempt to undercut Australian pay and conditions and have made job security a central issue in the latest long-haul enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations.

The issue has also been raised in Senate hearings into pilot training that are due to resume in Canberra today.

But Qantas says subsidiaries such as Jetconnect are necessary to allow it to compete at the same level as local operators.

ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence said the unions were arguing Jetconnect was not a real airline and that it had no planes, no customers and no real assets.

"By using this sham arrangement, Qantas is paying wages to the Jetconnect pilots that are almost 40 per cent lower than they would be obliged to pay under the Qantas agreement," he said.

"This is despite the fact that the evidence shows the pilots are trained by Qantas, wear Qantas uniforms, and fly Qantas planes on Qantas routes bearing the Qantas logo."

A Qantas spokeswoman said that Jetconnect, while a 100 per cent Qantas-owned subsidiary, was based in New Zealand and therefore under New Zealand jurisdiction.

"It employs New Zealand pilots and it's a New Zealand operation with aircraft registered in the country," she said. "Therefore, we don't think there is any substance to the claims made by the ACTU."

[rooboy83]

Will the outcome of this case set a precedent for QCCA crew, as the jetconnect scenario sounds remarkably similar to the tactics used to employ QCCA crew.

QCCA was formed as a Qantas subsidiary to allow for drastic cuts in cabin crew salaries and conditions?

QCCA crew wear the Qantas uniform, work on qantas aircraft , but yet are not employed by Qantas (when it suits the company.) Additionally, they literally sit next to and work alongside QAL crew who are on around 50% more pay and doing 50 less hours per roster.

What do you think the implications of this case will mean for QCCA?

[ejectx3]

Lets wait for an outcome but I imagine the cabin crew situation falls under the same banner. You just need your union to grow some large ones and go in to bat.

[skybed]

QCCA was made possible by the FAAA who painted doom and gloom if the last EBA did not get up. The majority of FAAA members voted for it. If however there might be a change of hart by the umpire and gives AIPA what it wants, I want to see the LHR base closed the day after!:ok:

[whatever6719]

Skybed is right. It was approved by a vote for the EBA and endorsed by the long haul FAAA.
Also QCCA is an Australian entity. It pays Australian based crew in AUD, and complies with taxation requirements, superannuation, etc etc.
Jetconnect is a whole different animal. It is simply a vehicle to undermine Australian terms and conditions.

I really hope the verdict is in our favour. If its not, it has the potential to open the floodgates of more and more foreigners performing jobs that are rightfully ours. The mining industry will be a big beneficiary if this goes against us.
I can just imagine BHP, RIO etc licking their lips at the thought of cheap foreign labour flying in and out from Asia doing the work for a fraction of the price that Australians get.

WHY IS THE MEDIA SO QUIET ABOUT ALL THIS??

WAKE UP AUSTRALIA!!!!!

[stubby jumbo]

.......all this is the legacy of Darth.

QCCA is a sham, QCCUK is a joke (ask passengers)

When I see those ...."still call Australia ad's " ....I want to :yuk:

Rather than use smart Management to counter the onslaught from SQ and EK what to they do -raise the white flag and off shore Aussie jobs.

Too easy:ugh:

But alas ....I'm afraid its all too late.

The Black Widow is spinning her web as we speak. She will then gobble up Mainline.:eek:

[framer]

performing jobs that are rightfully ours.
whatever6719 I agree with all of your statements and am on your side but for some reason I get my back up when anyone says a job is "rightfully theirs".
A job is a job. If the law of the land prevents someone from another country doing it then that is the law of the land, but I don't think you or I were born with a right to a certain job that was somehow magically denied to someone else from a different country. They have kids to feed too. This is about law, not rights. If the law says they can do it then more power to them . I don't think anyone has 'the right' to a certain job.

[mcgrath50]

QCCUK is a joke (ask passengers)

Having just done the Kangaroo route return, the difference in crew between the SYD-SIN leg and the SYD-LHR leg was very noticeable.

And the issue was, the UK crew did nothing wrong. They were technically proficient, the safety demo was precise, when they ran out of meals they offered Business alternatives (we were the last row of premium), they did their jobs fine. But they didn't go the extra mile.

The aussie crews were much more friendly when they went around, they did the safety demo with a bit of flair and actually presented it rather than just repeated it. The aussie crews had a chat to you while they served you and came round much more taking orders of food and drink.

The UK crew weren't bad, they just didn't go the extra mile. That's mildly annoying in the cabin, dangerous in the cockpit!

[whatever6719]

Framer
On re reading my post, I think I did come across a bit over zealous. I actually agree with what you are saying. All I meant to express was that jobs that are being performed more than adequately by existing staff (i.e
mainline tech/cabin crew) are being nefariously transferred to Jetconnect purely to save a buck..... Never mind that crew back in Australia face diminishing flying due to this AND the Jetstar onslaught.
Im sure you understand if I come across a little hysterical ;-)