ATPL books (merged '11)

[4015]

I'm looking for some light bedtime reading, and decided that the ATPL syllabus should do nicely.

So, I would like people's opinions on the different books; Oxford, Jeppeson, Nordian etc.

I want to know good and bad points, preferably as subjective as possible. I don't want this to turn into the ATPL version of the endless PC vs Mac debate.

Which are easy to read?
Which use the most/ clearest diagrams?
Which go deeply into the subject?
Which are more technical?
etc.

Appreciated,

4015

[The500man]

Nordian ATPL books suck balls big time! They are full of bad English are not very well laid out and they're not cheap either. Definitely cross them off your list.

[zondaracer]

I´m using the Bristol GS books and they are quite good. Also, the Oxford books I have seen are really good, and I even suggest getting some of their CDs, especially meteorology.

Also, aviation exam has a really good question bank, (so does Bristol), but you can purchase the QBs in book form and they are really nice to have the days before the exams.
https://www.aviationexam.com/UI/Pages/Eshop/Products.aspx

[4015]

Thanks for replies people, it would appear that the main consideration is to avoid Nordian like the plague.

If anyone else has a tuppence to donate please do, 'the bigger the sample size' and all that.

4015

[Whirlygig]

I can recommend Phil Croucher's JAR Professional Pilot Studies - it has the entire ATPL syllabus condensed into one volume so as a refresher it is ideal.

Cheers

Whirls

[Ryan5252]

I'm using the OAA books myself and find them good if thats any use to you. I would also recommend this (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/442263-atpl-book-opinions.html) thread - where they are talking about the same topic!

Ryan

[moona]

As said above, Phil Crouchers Book is ideal for this purpose!

[PAPI-74]

If you want a quick ref manual, try Ace The Technical Pilots Interview. I have extra notes stuck into mine and written into the spaces - just to add to the more tricky stuff.
Really that and EU Ops is all you will need till you get stuck into a type rating.

JAA | Publications & NPAs | JARs Section 1 (http://www.jaa.nl/publications/section1.html)

EASA - Search (http://easa.europa.eu/search.php?q=ops+1&btnG=+&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&site=default_collection&output=xml_no_dtd)

Good for a TR:

SmartCockpit - Boeing 757 (http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/boeing/B757)

[giggitygiggity]

I am about to start ATPL ground school. My provider exclusively uses CBT although I have always been quite keen on seeing things written down on paper. Would Phil Croucher's book be a recommended buy for the purpose of a summary? Or do you feel it may over complicate the learning process?

The book does look very good, but don't want to dive in if it is going to have a detrimental effect instead of a positive one on my studies.

[PAPI-74]

If CTC can't give you course notes, something is very wrong.
Bang on the CGI's desk.

[paco]

giggity - the book is actually the course notes of my approved ATPL(A) course, so it should complement your studies nicely. Very often another way of explaining things makes it sink in better, even if all explanations are quite good in their own right. We also believe in printed paper!

PAPI - CTC have bought the book in the past for their students

phil

[giggitygiggity]

I haven't began training yet so I don't know what they will offer. I have been told that all theory training is CBT based and they will also load their software onto your computer for personal study. I would however like something like this to look over before I begin the course proper if it is worth it, though if they are likely to provide the book, I don't want to spend the money twice.

Would they be likely to issue it individually or is it just available in a training library. I would prefer to buy it now to limit my additional expenses whilst in full-time training, and also so I can get started with the learning to pace myself as much as possible. CTC have suggested going over air law and preformance before beginning the course. They reccomended the Trevor Thom manuals, I have the full set of Pratt volumes which I am sure will suffice.

Has anyone got an old one they'd like to sell?

[paco]

If you are with CTC the book should be in their library, but it will be out of date relative to the new ones which cover the new syllabus/questions.

Both sets of books you mention are good, although not always pitched at ATPL level. They will, however, give you a good grounding. The later Thom books were edited by Pete Godwin (Bonus Aviation) so there's a lot of good input from him as well.

I wouldn't necessarily start with those subjects either - probably Human Performance would be an easier place to start since most people at least have a rudimentary knowledge of biology. Met would be also worth a read as it is relatively standalone.

Performance, Nav and Flight Planning I would definitely leave till last. In fact the learning objectives for Flight Planning clearly state you need at least a working knowledge of many subjects before you start it.

Phil

[KandiFloss]

Good Morning Prunners!

Yesterday I received my Module 1 course material from Bristol. I'm soooo excited, and can't wait to get cracking, but i'm also a little daunted having seen all the materials. Hoping to sit the exams in July/August this year.

Anyone else started with them recently, or sitting their exams around summer time?

[RichardH]

giggitygiggity

If you are with CTC then I believe they use the Bristol GS material and syllabus (did when I instructed there 3 years ago). If this is still the case course notes should be available in hard copy in the CTC library. Have to say you can't beat scribbling additional notes and high-lighting relevant bits in a book. Can't do that with CBT. Though CBT is really good at doing moving pictures eg. 4 stroke otto cycle.

DO NOT start with aircraft performance as you need to understand P of Fright first. Aircraft Performance, Flight Planning & Operational Procedures should come towards the end as all 3 subjects require under-pinning knowlege from other subjects, as Phil stated.

I should start by looking at Met as it is a standalone subject and knowledge from this cross-feeds into a number of other subjects.

Best of luck. PM for further advice if required.

[VJW]

I got the manuals maybe 4 years ago now, and still remember the feeling when I first opened the boxes. I instantly thought, 'I can do this!' - Flying 737's now, so enjoy - hard work, but worth it in the end!

VJW

[Mickey Kaye]

Would this book along with CATS/Bristol online question bank be enough to get through the ATPL exams? I already have a pass in the UK exams and I'm widely regarded as a genius.

[PAPI-74]

The CATS notes are very good and easy to read - I can't comment on any others.
The Bristol GS was very good when I went through 6 years ago and worth every penny. You can print out the appendices as you go too, which are as per the exam.

[paco]

mickey - yes it would, probably with a passmark of about 80% if you memorise it! You would also need the jep book, and an air almanac

phil

[giggitygiggity]

Richard and Phil, cheers for the info. I think you may have misunderstood what CTC had suggested. They said that it would be worth introducing yourself to the suggested topics if possible to give yourself a headstart, although everything will obviously be covered fully during the groundschool phase.

On re-reading what they had sent me, it says that it would be a good idea to look at "Air Law and Meterology" and "Aircraft Technical" if you can. My mistake as I had previously cited the wrong info.

I realise the books I mentioned are aimed at a PPL student and not pitched at an ATPL level, they were just suggesting them for a bit of pre-course reading material probably because they were cheaper, more widely available and also at a more approachable level.

Thanks fellas!

[BoeingDreamer]

Don't worry, that "excitement" of those books/subject will quickly wear off by the time you get to the 3.rd month!

Was great "fun" - having no life for 7 months, but is probably worth it when all is done and dusted. Good luck!:ok:

[G CEXO]

first module?.....Bristol GS??...

Oh God, you're so gonna have fun with Grid Navigation :ugh:

Oh, and how can I forget good old Met. Interesting until you get onto the upper atmosphere weather section with global winds and circulations. Makes you cry and weep like a child :ooh:


Have fun and be patient, the latter the most important.

[taff_lightning]

Started mod 1 in about Sept and got the exams out the way just before x-mas. Hoping to crack mod 2 in March.

Good course, well structured and broken down nicely to make it more manageable. Might seem bit daunting now but before you know it you'll be lost in it. Don't worry if you don't quite get it all straight away they'll sure whip you into shape when you get down to Cheddar.

Don't underestimate the power of the question bank and if you're struggling to get to grips with something jump on the forum and ask. Something I should have done more of, would have made life a little easier.

Enjoy it and best of luck:ok:

[paco]

Gris Nav is quite easy once you are able to visualise the directions involved with regard to the hemisphere you are in - and can draw a diagram!

Phil

[paco]

Depending on how much blood is in the coffee stream, I may well have misunderstood!

Are you doing a modular course? It is true to say that you shouldn't be starting without PPL knowledge anyway.

Good luck

Phil

[KandiFloss]

Oh God, you're so gonna have fun with Grid Navigation :ugh:

Oh, and how can I forget good old Met. Interesting until you get onto the upper atmosphere weather section with global winds and circulations. Makes you cry and weep like a child http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif

Great!!!:{ ... what is 'Grid Navigation'? ... or should I wait and see?!

[The500man]

what is 'Grid Navigation'? ... or should I wait and see?!


I'm pretty sure it's got something to do with avoiding the nasties in TRON! :)

[BoeingDreamer]

Don't you just love the Polar Stereo charts, and what about Ops. procedures, there are some nasty questions there to in the QB, it becomes easier to just learn the answer then even start on those Transport "Wonder" questions!

I do so NOT envy you!

Best advice, after you slow get trough the material, go straight onto Bristol QB in that subject, and keep revising every day 20 - 30 questions of a subject.
:8