Why Alan Joyce was wrong choice for Qantas

[-438]

Alan Joyce is a good choice of CEO for a low cost carrier. He is a numbers man. LCC are a simple business, he who has the lowest costs & the deepest pockets wins. Jetstar has deep pockets due to Qantas funding their operation. LCC are all about dollars, not people. Running a LCC you need not care too much about employees or customers. Customers make their decisions based purely on cost & expect poor service. A turning over of unhappy employees is acceptable as they are cheap and are happy to pay for their own training. Your function as CEO is to reduce costs in all departments other than executive pay.

Full service carriers are a people business. You need to treat your customers with respect & give a high quality of service. To do this you need to have your employees working with you. Long term employees are an asset that enhance your business. Passengers pay a premium based on many things brand, loyalty, safety, service, prestige, flexibility etc but essentially it's an emotional decision.
Alan Joyce does not understand that premium carriers are a people business and a very good business when run well. You can not run a premium carrier on a low cost carrier model especially when you are finically supporting a LCC.

[OneDotLow]

-438 :

You can not run a premium carrier on a low cost carrier model especially when you are finically supporting a LCC.

Does anyone REALLY think that the "A Team" of senior management at QF could really be the only airline in the world to successfully start a LCC?

[Sunfish]

-438:

Alan Joyce is a good choice of CEO for a low cost carrier. He is a numbers man.

........Full service carriers are a people business. You need to treat your customers with respect & give a high quality of service.

...And you miss the blindingly obvious conclusion to that situation.


Mr. Joyce will do what generations of bad managers do to segments of the businesses they manage that they do not understand or care for, let alone have the capacity to profitably manage;

HE WILL KILL IT OFF!

[Jabawocky]

but could it simply be that there isn't a place for premium carriers (in the tradional sense) any more?

Quite true.

It may be as the dust settles here a service more like where VB are headed is the way to go.

I certainly do not need the QF first class, and domestic VB is fine, if you want a semi business class.....premium economy lets call it well so be it.

There are no rules.......... :sad:

[skybed]

lets look at corporate accounts. how many CEO's, senior managers want to travel preminum economy or cattle class? no one. its always written in their contracts that PC/JC is for flights over (on average) 4 hours.The other " great resource" for JC at the moment is baby boomers and FF redemtion points on international sectors. the problem (as many times pointed out in these forums here) is that QF made wrong aircraft choices, cut destinations and no keeping up the international product in PC/JC (A380 excempt).:ok:

[bonvol]

HE WILL KILL IT OFF!

The Qantas pilots are just starting to wake up that this is the end game.

He doesn't just want concessions. He wants them gone.... for good.

[Mr. Hat]

Excellent post 438.

There is no such thing as a "Low Cost" Carrier. Everything has a price.

You buy a ticket on a LCC you are forfeiting the buffer on everything from possible disruptions to safety. The margins are thinner.

Governments dictate how they want vital services and infrastructure to run. In this case our government is happy to allow the travelling public to fly on the LCCs model. They are happy to accept the risk if we are. Its their choice to allow LCC's to operate in the manner that they do.

As Australia is a country where nothing ever gets achieved without blood shed/destruction there may come a time when people will seriously have to consider moving to a first world country where some level of reasonableness exists and self regulating exists.

A great example of the festering ineptitude in our country is the recent droughts/floods. It wasn't that long ago the we were in a drought and we weren't washing the car and letting the lawn die to save water. We all learned at primary school that we are in fact the driest country on earth. So what was done since the drought? Dams catchment areas were built right? Wrong. Water out to sea (through a few homes on the way). The fix? A levy a tax. The old reactive policy again, its like a broken record from both sides of politics.

Inept, incompetent, corrupt. Its a country where the Alan Joyce's have free reign. Good luck QF pilots you'll need it.

[Sunfish]

Lester:

Airborne; you are a consumer too. Do you opt to pay top dollar for every product?

Lester, Lester, Lester baby! Oh baby! Have I got a bridge to sell you!

The whole idea of marketing in the last Ten years is to find out and capitalise on HOW HIGH A PRICE THE CONSUMER IS WILLING TO PAY!

The idea is to get the customer to maximise his spend!

This is why when you go to Starbucks you will see Five different coffees in Four different sizes with six different toppings. That is the point of the joke about the group ordering their coffees; "I'll have a skinny baby chino with a twist, etc."

The car industry learned this in 1950. The basic car costs say $5000.00, we add $500 worth of extras and charge $10,000 for the "GT" model with the racing stripes.

I think VB understands this better than Alan Joyce and Ryanair.

They already charge extra for the exit row seats. If it was possible, I'd be charging for seat room by the inch. Same with baggage - scrap the limit and impose a low charge per kilo, etc. Food and drink? Optional at extra cost.

The idea that a customer simply wants a low fare is so passe. Ryanair is raising its fares because it understands that the low cost model is never going to be sustainable.

To put it another way, I want a low fare.. sometimes. Other times I want to pamper myself, but I ain't payin $8,000 for a business class seat.

[Jabawocky]

They think I've paid $39! Where is the service? Why doesn't my seat recline?

I heard some new Airbuses/Airbii.....whatever arrived recently with seats that did not recline, but you did get some extra rows of them.:rolleyes:

And early on either BB or AJ was on board and was a little upset he could not recline his seat, went straight to the techies and said why won't these seats recline, and was directly told.......coz you ordered them that way :ugh:

[KABOY]

You buy a ticket on a LCC you are forfeiting the buffer on everything from possible disruptions to safety

Thats a long bow I'm afraid! What reasoning have you got to back up that statement??

Airlines run standards on everything form maintenance to training, how can you assume that a LCC is compromising this? Pilots and Flight attendants are paid less, but so too are the regional Pilots and Flight Attendants. Am I reducing the buffer on safety when I fly QLINK or Rex?

[surfside6]

With old Scrotum Face as his father and The Dame as his mother Joyce was always going ot be a scew up.
With the return on cost of capital and the sky is falling mantra Joyce is just an echo of Dixon.They saw eye to eye on many things.Principally because they are the same height.
please! please! can we have someone who knows how to run an airline as CEO of Qantas?

[crocodile redundee]

"Mr Hat" above is 100% correct - Australia & Qantas share the same fate - They are both ROOTED!!!!!!!!

[teresa green]

Had to make a rush trip to LHR, for a rellies funeral, on QF, admittedly on staff travel, (though ready to dig deep if had to) sorry fellas but really the leg from SYD/OOL was not much different to SYD/LHR/SYD. Clean A/C, friendly staff, (more bored on QF though) but put that down to longhaul, it was pretty seamless really, except for price. Oh, and I travelled business, obviously much more leg room etc, and you dont need to eat SYD/OOL, but really not a lot of difference CC wise. All ok.

[Mr. Hat]

KABOY who are you kidding?

Come on lets stop playing games.

Low cost surgery, police? Lets stop wasting bandwidth.

Qlink, REX less safe? Crack open 20.7.1B see what you think.

[KABOY]

Give me statistics to show otherwise and I will back you up, airmanship is not a compromise to safety more a courtesy to your fellow aviator. Tell a passenger that an airlines airmanship is poor but safety is high and they will stare blankly and still ask are they safe!

Using a reg to support a safety argument is rubbish. Place a 737 and a DHC-8 into a CTAF and which one is safer? Aircraft maintenance and pilot standards are the issue here, these are issues addressed by the operator not by the price of the ticket. But safety seems to be related to the cost of a ticket, flawed logic the way I see it.

Interesting statistics released about safety worldwide, and the poorest record was in Africa how many LCC are operating there?

[Qantas 787]

This is not just AJ - Clifford, Strambi and the rest of the management team are just as guilty. And who is meant to be in charge of 'People' these days?

[Mr. Hat]

Using a reg to support a safety argument is rubbish

I should have been more specific. I say the Jet is safer due to its performance and technology. Not regs just physics. Not sure what Qlink and REX have to do with this anyway. How are the HUD's going on the SAABs? Isn't it funny how the 73's at QF have the HUD's and the 320's at Jetstar don't. Safety vs Cost. Cost is factored into the technology installed in the purchased aircraft. Optional extras.

I'm talking about LCC and the AJ/BB "managers" that get around cutting costs where ever they can. Is a company whose entire focus is cost cutting likely to invest significantly in training and development? AJ is a low cost manager that belongs in a low cost airline or a cardboard box factory at best. Mismanaged fleet choices, engineering choice stuff ups and then announcing suddenly during an EBA that they are bleeding money.

Recent incident involving a Jq 330 indicates their crew hadn't received the same training as the Qf equivalents.

Let me guess the more experienced a pilot get the more dangerous they re and thus a 200 hr J* cadet would have been better support for the Captain QF32?

[VBPCGUY]

Whats worse is the man that knows he is dealing with a fool has a big grin on his face, sitting at his desk in the VILLAGE:D

[astroboy55]

Its not just Joyce. The whole board needs to go. What do these idiots know about running an airline? Nothing. They only know how to destroy them. Just ask the people from Ansett.

Time for all of them to p*ss off. Short term interests do nothing good for the company.

[Ngineer]

When was the last time you saw any advertising on TV for the Qantas brand??? Or the kids choir singing our anthem. Is it any wonder our product is failing?

Our management seem more pre-occupied with the success of our low cost offshoot. After all, I guess it is Al's puppy dog and any failure will surely reflect on him.

[astroboy55]

so the people here know it, the employees know it. The competitors know it. What can be done to get the investors to realise that they are destroying their returns?

[mmciau]

astroboy55,

You would have great difficulty getting rid of Board members as most are placed by the support of Institutionalised Shareholders (which are only interested in capital returns!!)

Mike

[The Black Panther]

Ngineer writes:
When was the last time you saw any advertising on TV for the Qantas brandIt is very obvious where the Board wants the direction of QF to go and it isn't toward the International full service product.

Their priorities seem to be:
Jetstar expansion- 1. Heavily advertised on all television and other media 2. Priority of capacity (787) while QF Int will flounder 3. Public preference of the JQ commerical model

Domestic QF-1. Receives an excess of labour to ensure the dispatch departure time stays above of DJ.

International QF- 1. Stripped of labour (terminals combined and txfrd to Dom) 2. Shrinking advertsing budget 3. No Capacity priority (JQ gets in first) 4. Public complaints QF Int is costing the Group money 4. Revenue streams removed (3rd Party Line work) 5. Financial reports that use transfer costs to make QF look the bad segment of the group.

In the mean time JB at Virgin will be the QF's boards headache as he puts his timely plans into action and take a big slice of the QF business.

I digress: I note the same ol' same ol' rhetoric from CN regard Avalon "The same quality of labour is available at much cheaper costs overseas".........so go overseas and reap the benefits. Get some cheap engineering managers while passing through Mumbai that will work for $55,000/yr same quality at a 1/5 of the price.

[C207]

"When was the last time you saw any advertising on TV for the Qantas brand??? Or the kids choir singing our anthem. Is it any wonder our product is failing? "

This all part of the master plan and is quite intentional. Qf passengers will be transferred to lower cost JQ as quickly as the market will accept and "get use to" the new model. To do this they run QF down while JQ receives all the investment in new AC etc.

Lots of advertising for JQ and none for QF. Note also how fares right now are being raised at QF. This will surely send more to JQ as they increase capacity. especially since our service at qantas has become unreliable with our ailing fleet.

Just a few days ago management achieved yet another Key in this strategy making JQ apart of oneworld allowing codesharing of other airlines on JQ. QF have been carrying these passengers. So in a sense this now allows management to transfer all these Pax (both dom and Int) to JQ.

Jetstar Singapore route deals and oneworld alliance | Upmarket move (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/jetstar-moves-upmarket-20110211-1apef.html)

And well what do you know.... Jq is now moving up market. So what is QF for?????

Watch more of our A330's disappear to JQ singapore.

Jq was set up to undermine pay and conditions. Lower costs lower standards. This is a bad development for all Australian Pilots

Its sad that this is the way of our industry. Execs at the top are paid top dollar to find clever ways to bring the workers down. Offshore Jobs, undermine contracts, pitting pilot groups against each other. It will have a cost. Airlines in oz will become more and more dysfunctional and the travelling public had better get use to it. We are not alone of course. I just hope Australia is ready for reality that we are in real danger of our first major accident. The safety culture of our industry has been the biggest victim and has been eroded to pay for some execs bonus.

Im a little tired of sitting on Death Row at QF for the last 10 years. Sitting on the flight deck and watching us be surrounded by JQ or jetconnect.... Powerless to do anything about it. Everyone at QF know it. Quite frankly id rather just get on with it... take me out back and give me a bullet. At least id know where i stand. Thats what the "secure our flying" is all about. where damned and this is our last chance. At the end of this we'll finally know what manage think of us and the lies will be over.

[gobbledock]

You would have great difficulty getting rid of Board members as most are placed by the support of Institutionalised Shareholders (which are only interested in capital returns!!)

Spot on.
Board membership, share allocations, share holders and voting is a little more complex than it appears, yet it is not that hard to fathom. But the reality is that the CEO will not get punted by the board. And the amount of shares owned by institutionalised shareholders will see them continue to vote for the CEO as long as he is bringing home the bacon. Staff morale, safety, dirty onboard cutlery, a declining reputation and the smell of stale urine in the economy cabin mean absolutely nothing as long as the $$$ click over for the shareholders.....It is sad but true.

[Short_Circuit]

as long as the $$$ click over for the shareholders
I seem to remember there was NO dividend last year, so he failed on that one also.:ouch:

[gobbledock]

I seem to remember there was NO dividend last year, so he failed on that one also.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/shiner.gif
True. And remember, his alottment of shares are free, he didnt have to pay a cent, so a 'no dividend payment' doesnt hurt him anyway, but does hurt those who actually paid for their shares and didnt have them gifted.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Joyce was chosen because he is compliant...unlike Dixon.Borghetti missed out on the big gig because he is not.Clifford wanted someone out of their depth.Someone easier to manipulate.Someone grateful and surprised at their promotion.
Voila...you get Joyce

[skybed]

is almost every week in Melbourne as LC doesn't want to go to Sydney-FACT:yuk:

[gobbledock]

is almost every week in Melbourne as LC doesn't want to go to Sydney-FACThttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif
Perhaps da little fella he is simply trying to 'connect' with his workforce, get out their among the troops, feel what is happenning in the workplace, mingle with the customers and extract all manner of feedback, sample his product live, become enthused and re-nergized, garnish new ideas ?? :E

[skybed]

he sits there barley looking above the seat:oh: but doesn't engage much with staff. they are too busy being short staffed on shrt sectors to have time to chat;)

[Ka.Boom]

Clifford is the number one ticket holder at Essendon.An AFL nut Clifford wouldnt be leaving Melbourne whenever there is a game on.Maybe AJ likes watching AFL.After all its only Gaelic Football dressed up
Incoming!!!

[Cactusjack]

he sits there barley looking above the seat:oh:
Good thing he hasn't been mistaken yet for a UMNR !!

[DERG]

saw him on the video..zero personality...only one reason you would hire him..as a puppet.

[73to91]

From SMH today: Qantas boss Joyce grounds his tongue (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-boss-joyce-grounds-his-tongue-20110217-1ayb6.html)


The chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, was careful yesterday to ensure there were no translation errors from his presentation of the airline's half year results.
Explaining Qantas's plans to purchase of 10 Fokker 100 aircraft, the Irish-accented Joyce censored another word from his vocabulary.
He declined to pronounce the full name of the aircraft and would only refer to it as the F100.

Another word on Joyce's blacklist is ''third''. It should be an interesting day when Qantas takes delivery of its third Fokker 100.