Command upgrade in China

[upspeed]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know what are the exact requirements for command upgrade on a widebody in China? I have searched CAAC's webpages and PPRUNE for it, but without success. Just wondering if there's anyone here that has gone or is going through the process of beeing upgraded from widebody FO to CAPT on the same ACFT. I've been told something about 250 landings on a WB ACFT as a minimun, but not 100% sure.

Thanks for the info.

Fly safe,

Upspeed.

[Fubaliera]

The requirment is being chinese:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[upspeed]

Got to make a visit to the chinese embassy then to start the paperwork hehe :O

Seriously though...anyone?

Upspeed

[Karunch]

We were told at induction for one of the Chinese majors that they could not give initial commands on aircraft > 185 tonnes. Some initial commands on B767 but none on A330.

[bigduke6]

I believe it is 400 landings for first command on a widebody, if no previous command time on a narrowbody!

2500? hours (on-seat time if using 3 man crew on any sectors) if I recall to upgrade on narrowbody.

[break_break]

Wake up fellas, you have NO upgrade potential to consider on widebody. You're a foreign LABOUR and if you had widebody command time, there might be a small chance getting back on Left seat on narrowbody only. Even then, nothing is concrete.
Please do yourself a big favour, do not plan on such wild dream, for fear of huge disappointment.

[powerstall]

Don't get your hopes up, even if you're qualified enough, they would still upgrade their own. :ugh:

[upspeed]

A lot of good arguments to listen to and consider indeed, but what about a company where there are no chinese within the pilot group or the higher management? Would that still pose a big NO GO on foreign FO upgrades?

cheers and thanks for the replies! keep `em coming!

[burnable gomi]

upspeed,

I can't speak for any Chinese airline specifically, but I can tell you that even that is unlikely. I have seen examples of asian carriers hiring expat captains instead of upgrading very experienced expat FOs. I am aware of a couple of exceptions to this, but none of them that I know of are in China. As an expat FO you get kind of pigeon-holed into your role as an FO and no matter how much experience you may have they still see you as just an FO (and there is a big "status" difference between captains and FOs in Asia).

[PappyJ]

I have never heard of an Expat F/O being upgraded at any Chinese, Korean, or Indonesian, or Japanese Airline.

It has happened at some Malaysian, Singaporean, and Vietnamese Airlines though.

[etops777]

Expat FOs are only with SIA Cargo and you must be on a local term should you wish to be on the list for an upgrade.

[Whatsit Doingnow]

I have never heard of an Expat F/O being upgraded at any Chinese, Korean, or Indonesian, or Japanese Airline.
Didn't ANA in Japan do upgrades on the 767 contract?

[PappyJ]

Didn't ANA in Japan do upgrades on the 767 contract? I've been around this region for a long time, and although I'm certainly not an expert, I don't know of any who have be upgraded. That said, if there was a place that would do it, ANA would be that place.

[WYOMINGPILOT]

ANA definitely upgrades FOs, I have several friends who have upgraded or are in the process of upgrading from FO to Captain on the 767.

In China there is very limited potential for upgrade or even a potential job as an FO. They can grow/train their own FOs here very rapidly. They are seeking qualified Captains. Many FOs at Jade Cargo were never upgraded. I think Great Wall has upgraded a few. The demand in China is for qualified Captains with 500 hours PIC on type. The minimums for upgrade for Chinese FOs are 2500 hours, and 250 landings on type. The CAAC does not want Expat FOs to upgrade. They only want them to fill short term positions until Chinese FOs can take their jobs.

[upspeed]

This is what the current CCAR121 says:

Article 121.417 pilot initial/transition/upgrade training entry requirements

(a) (2)for airplanes with max takeoff weight greater than 136,000kg(exclusive), the pilot must have been captain on class II airplanes for more than one year and have at least 500 hours captain time and total flight hours must be no less than 4000 hours; if the pilot does not have the above mentioned class II airplane captain experience, his/her total flight hours must be no less than 5500 hours, including no less than 2500 hours on class II airplanes, no less than 450 legs including takeoff and landing as PF, among which no less than 250 legs including takeoff and landing as PF on the said type.

So in other words...legally at least I understand that an FO without previous PIC time in a medium/heavy acft and holding the above mentioned minimuns can be upgraded to CPT directly to an WB acft. However, I understand that in practice this may as well be another story...any thoughts?