Virgin Atlantic future recruitment

[mirko1980]

Hi !
I'm new in this forum, i always read but i never write :)
does anyone know if the salary of £46,884 per annum paied to a junior f/o is net? (i mean 3907£ evey month in my bank account??) if no.. how much is net per month?
How much are allowance? i know that are depending on destination but can i have an idea?how many days off per month?
It's just to compare with my actual italian contract,every reply will help me to decide UK or Italy?
Thanks!

[stansdead]

Mirko,

The £46k is GROSS. You will have tax deducted at source.

I don't have current figures for flight pay. Bet on approximately $800-1000 per month in allowances down route.

[mirko1980]

tks!
and how much is net per month?
Mirko

[Bealzebub]

Mirko,

It is very difficult for people to give a net figure, because it varies from person to person and depends on things such as their own personal tax code (the amount of salary allowed free of tax.) The amount of additional income they may receive, and the proportion of that income that is taxable. Pension contributions they may make, that are usually not included in the taxable element of their salary, and they will vary from person to person.

However with a very broad brush:

Using the figure you have mentioned of £ 46,884 gross
A normal UK tax allowance would be £6,475 (the amount you can earn before tax is payable.) The tax would then be £8,683.60 and the National insurance would be £ 4,248.44. This gives a total deduction of £ £12,912.04 leaving a net wage of £ 33,971.96 or £2,831.00 per month

This figure doesn't allow for additional deductions (pension, subscriptions, etc) nor does it allow for additional tax concessions such as FREA (fixed rate expenses allowance.) But it should give you a rough idea.

[3wings]

In addition to this you also receive a payment depending on how many hours you fly in a month, currently about 17 pounds per hour for an FO.

So with an average of 62 hours a month this equates to another 1000 (ish) pounds per month, gross. deduct tax, NI etc and you get about 550 net.

A 6 year FO takes home ie. net between 3500 and 4000 pounds per month.
As mentioned above these figures can vary widely depending on pension contributions and your hours that month.
Hope that helps

[mirko1980]

Hi,
tks to all now i have a better idea..
3Wings.. so with 6yrs experience u take about 3500-4000 pound net x month plus allowaces that are almost 1000 usd per months net? is that correct?
Bealzebub with ur message i undertand that taxes in UK are very high.. like in italy :(
tks

[sellect]

Talking of high tax, try working in Denmark!

[3wings]

Mirko,
yep, thats about right

[Brian Fantana]

Hi Mirko1980
Is the £46883 figure you mention from ppjn?
I was reliably informed that FO starting salary is £48000

[mirko1980]

Hi,
i don't know what is ppjn, hovewer i'm sure that starting salary is 46884 pound not more :(

[Iver]

Which fleet are they hiring for? 400 or just the A340/330? Any difference in pay between the 400 and the A330 for newhire FOs?

[mirko1980]

i talking about a340, i donw't know about 747.

[fast cruiser]

mirko1980

As I understand it, you have been to interview and are now in the holding pool awaiting a course date? if this is true, did you not do any preparation before the interview in terms of pay etc???? surely you should know how much the salary is of the job you applied to?

For info:-

A330 A340 and B747 are all in the same salary band, same allowances etc etc etc...

year 1 F/O basic pay before tax: £46881
flight pay before tax is currently at £13.36 per hour based on 750 hours
down route allowances are roughly $800 per month depending on trip pattern/destination etc so might be more/less

salary/flight pay subject to change depending on current ongoing pay talks!!!!!!!! :}:}

[3wings]

FC
its 16.76 per hour on my payslip, best you check yours!!

[fast cruiser]

quoted basic without EMFHP as its subject to company profit/loss (ROS)

did'nt want to confuse the poor chap anymore!!! :}:}

[mirko1980]

Hi fast cruiser and 3wings

tks for clear reply!
you are almost right, i make interview but i understand that salary was net (in italy we usually talk about net salary not gross), few days ago talking about my interview with a friend he told me that probably salary was gross and this is why i ask to pprune and he was right! :(
Fast cruiser, sorry but i don't undestrand what you mean when u write:
"on current ongoing pay talks!!!!"

[felixthecat]

Ouch… sounds like you need some pay talks :\

[fast cruiser]

felixthecat... to bloody right mate

mirko1980: basically our pilots union (Balpa) are in the process of negotiating a pay rise as the terms and conditions have been eroded dramatically over the last few years!!!!!

[mirko1980]

Ciao to all! can i ask last few question??
- How many day's off per month?can I ask for example some consecutive day's off?
-what mean AFT 750 per annum write in contract?? Is there any salary increment with seniority?
- Is there any insurance, for licence loose, life insurance, etc?
What about roster? any stby? can i have an example??

[norton2005]

Scroggs gives a good outline of rosters and standbys in a typical virgin month on one of the stickies!!

[scroggs]

I think you mean the one I wrote about 9 or 10 years ago? It's still available from within the Wannabes - Interviews and Jobs forum. However, it probably needs updating!

Virgin still operates to 750 hours, though there is a 10 hour 'buffer' to allow a pilot to hit 750 during a trip and not have to stop short at, say, 730. Our pay is at least in part tied to flying hours, so lost time is expensive. While annual overtime (ie over 760 hours) is potentially available, in times of difficult employment and with many of our Virgin colleagues still waiting to come back after being furloughed, it is perhaps unfair to fly hours that should be being flown by a another pilot who is currently laid off...

A typical roster at Virgin (on the A340) will include four or five longhaul flights and around 80 flying hours. Each trip will be between 3 and 9 days away from home. Time off will normally be in blocks of two or three days but occasionally may be longer. The minimum time off (at home) in a month is 10 days. Ground training (simulator, safety equipment, avmed, tech refresher etc) is rostered at varying intervals and usually effectively replaces a trip in the roster. Standby is rostered in month-long blocks and typically comes round once a year, though it can be more or less frequent. There are no guaranteed days off during standby, but industrial agreements ensure that you will get more or less the normal number of days off, though you won't know when you'll get them!

Rosters on the B744 are different in that the Boeing tends to operate shorter flights, so you could occasionally get 6 flights in a month. Equally, because of the tortured and complex system of schedules we have to the Caribbean, you may well do a considerable amount of positioning on flights which earn few flying hours yet keep you away from home for up to six days. This is an issue which is hopefully being addressed, but seems somewhat intractable.

Longhaul flying is not about the aeroplane. There is nothing intrinsically better about flying an A340-600 or B747-400 than a Dash or an Embraer. The job at the beginning or end of each flight is much the same, but the bit in between is very, very much longer. If you can't abide sitting more or less still and doing little or nothing for 10 hours or more, don't apply. When you get to your destination, it is likely to be a lot less interesting and stimulating than you might have anticipated (though not always), and it will be a very long way from home. If your other half has difficulty with independence and self-sufficiency, do not apply. The parties and jollity that you may have read or heard about at Virgin are very much in the past. That's not to say that there is no fun to be had down route, but it will be up to you to provide it. If you were expecting lots of alcohol, sex and stories to tell your grandchildren, don't apply! Your time at home will be compromised hugely by fatigue. In a typical two-day stopover at home, you will sleep for a lot of it, feel crap for most of it, and be expected to do all the stuff which has stacked up while you were away enjoying yourself. Your relationship needs to be very strong, and your domestic support network must be fully functional and able to swing into action whenever you are delayed away or a crisis hits at home.

While I don't want to give the impression that longhaul is harder than lo-cost or any other form of flying, it brings challenges that you might not expect and may be ill-equipped to deal with. Professionally, it's very different to short-haul and relies hugely on self-study and prior experience replacing hands-on practise. You can't learn to fly in this job! Personally, it puts huge strains on you and yours and the change from whatever you're comfortable (or at least coping) with right now may be too much if you don't anticipate the problems and put in strategies to counter them.

I wish you all good luck.

[Jinkster]

Very very interesting and informative post - thanks scroggs!

Now when are they going to recruit non-type rated but experience people!

[Iver]

Quite a sobering post Scroggs - thanks for that. I must say that although I always fancied flying the venerable 744 like most people, I am not sure that I would like its limited route network at Virgin. I agree that an airplane is an airplane at the end of the day, but the A340 fleet certainly do offer much more route/layover variety despite the longer sectors. I think after awhile the Caribbean, JFK, Orlando and Vegas on the 400 would get a bit old (even in this freezing weather). It's all a matter of perspective - I am sure some Virgin 400 pilots love the flying...

[Borat]

Scroggs has it absolutely spot on. The only thing I would add is the time to command. I was quoted about 8 years when I joined (post 9/11 but pre-recession) so worked on roughly 10 years. Due to lack of expansion, the increased retirement age of 65 and perhaps most importantly the age demographic of our captains, many of whom are relatively young (mid 40's), it is now very clear that time to command is now more likely to be 15-20 years. This is BA territory but at least they have the option of an earlier short haul command or training positions for long haul SFO's to alleviate at least some of the frustration.

As with everything it comes down to personal preference and an individual's professional ambition. Just be realistic in your expectations and if an early-ish command is important to you don't even think about joining Virgin. If, however, sitting in the RHS for that length of time isn't going to be an issue for you, go for it. I like most of the places we go on the 340 and I like most of the folks I fly with. Just don't expect to see many of the crew downroute and if you want parties and shenanigans, go to Hedonism...

Finally, do be aware that VS is a small, stand-alone airline. RB certainly looks to have had enough and a take over could lead to significantly altered Ts & Cs, particularly the removal of our 750 hour limit, albeit kicking and screaming. That would equate to another trip per month and yet more time away from loved ones. Certainly wouldn't make people's personal lives any easier (although I'm sure it might for some!)

[flamingmoe]

How do you live in London on 46k?? :sad:

[Count von Altibar]

From what my mates at Virgin say scroggs & Borat seem to portray a realistic picture of the long haul life there. Very helpful stuff to any prospective new joiner.

[stansdead]

Scroggs and Borat are on the money here. Totally and utterly correct in their impressions.

I flew with Scroggs on the A346. Had a very nice, but totally boring (no offence meant or implied) trip to Newark.

I left for a Command when the time and money was right to do so. Both Scroggs and I discussed the future at length on our flight together. He hasn't changed his views at all, and even though my Command is a low cost airline Command, it is a Command and I'm better off for it.

The fatigue frazzled me in VS and I couldn't cope with being 5000+ miles from home.

I think 15-20 years is probably pushing it slightly, but I would certainly bank on 12 - 15 years before promotion.

Too long for me.

Good overall package, but it could change. And I reckon it will. To 900 hours.

On the plus side, that will reduce Command time because people will leave when that happens.

[oxymoron666]

There are elements of truth in the postings above but like everything in life it is down to you to make it what you want. I'm in my second decade with Virgin and it's had it's ups and downs but I can honestly say I have no regrets about my career choice. Depending on fleet the flying can be good fun. If you're on the -400 expect to make a lot of hand flown visual approaches in the Caribbean coupled with lots of procedural stuff if the weather is poor. It's enough to keep your mind and skills practiced but without having to do it 4 times a day. The 340 tends to be more automated to radar vectored ILS's but there's still a lot of non precision stuff (Canarse into JFK is always good for a laugh)

Life on the line in Virgin is actually quite pleasant. In general it's a very sociable atmosphere and you can adapt it to suit your needs. If you're flying on the business routes the cabin crew tend to be more mature (with quite few national crew on some routes) and there is plenty of opportunity for long lunches/dinners coupled with some fun and exploration. If you're on the leisure routes from Gatwick then the crew are much younger (probably average around the early 20's mark) but are always up for a party whether it's clubbing in Vegas or beach party's in the Caribbean. When you're in any of the "multi" destinations (LAX or MCO) there can be 4 or 5 crews in the hotel every night and that's always time for fun. No matter which routes and types I've been on I have always found crew who will come out and have fun whether it's sailing, skiing, climbing Mount Fuji, drinking or whatever you have planned it just takes a little charm and a small amount of organising (delegation).

As to the jet lag and time changes well everyone is different and copes differently with it. I won't say it's not a problem but you will find your own way of dealing with it. In the last 6 months I've averaged 15 days off a month (including some leave) and most of my trips arrive back early in the morning so although I sleep when I get home I'm up in the afternoon and can do what I please. It does build up and occasionally I find myself being pretty snappy with friends or family. There are lots of divided opinions within Virgin but having been with 4 other airlines in my career I can honestly say this has been the best lifestyle wise and I'm certainly nowhere near as knackered as I was doing 4 sector days 5 or 6 days a week. However it's all personal preference.

As to promotion, if that's what you're after, then don't come. The FO's now getting commands have been in the Company for twelve years and this figure will continue to rise so anyone joining now it will certainly be a minimum of 15 years. However that is for a Long Haul command and apart from the Middle East I'm not sure where you would get it quicker. Secondly my experience was that 95% of the Captains treat you like a grown up and expect you to make decisions and don't try and micro manage or use you as a human auto pilot. Virgin is roughly the same size it was before 9/11 and I think has found a plateau that it is unlikely to grow much in its current form. Yes we have new aircraft coming and there will probably be some limited expansion but then we have some aircraft that are getting old and will be retired.

Positioning gets a mention quite a lot but the inter island stuff in the Caribbean is no different to any one who has done long haul charter. As to the long haul positioning it was getting out of hand but several longer layovers in NYC, MIA, MCO etc have reduced quite a bit of it. 90% of the time I get an upper class seat, you get your hourly flying pay and although it doesn't count to my annual flying total it's not that bad. Unlike a lot of other airlines there are no early morning taxi rides or bus journeys across the UK and all the airborne stuff is in Perf A aeroplanes.

As to the fleet and route structures, they change. Over time fleet workloads and destinations alter and I wouldn't be too focused on what fleet you might go on as in 5 years time it will all be different.

The real downside, I guess, is the demotion and redundancy element. In the last 9 years we've had two big periods of demotion and redundancy so if you're a junior Captain or FO there is always a risk that the Company will "knee jerk" and you'll be out or demoted. However both times the recovery was quick and within a year everyone who wanted to come back had. After 9/11 some guys stacked shelves whilst on unpaid leave, some took other jobs and some did nothing and although it seemed a long time then it wasn't and they held their seniority. Basically like all business's they have an urgent short term need to save cash and in Virgin's case they use redundancy to do it. I guess that's just life these days.

As to management, what can you say, to be honest it's not that much different to any other outfit I've worked for. It is no worse or better than I've experienced but don't expect them to understand that you are actually a person who has needs. You will find that your current airline management team has "twins" in Virgin. You are a work unit and this is something that has changed since Richard left the scene. The "people" touch is not present but if you're happy to ignore that your colleagues on a day to day basis are a good bunch (again same for every other airline I've flown for). Basically most Pilots ignore the Company spin and if they need help tend to go to ex or current union reps first. We have a very fluffy internal comms team who seem to think that middle age, educated, professionals can be easily hood winked along with the 20 year old temporary office workers - maybe one day they'll wake up to the fact it doesn't work.

So if you're interested I'd say go for it. I've had a lot of fun over the years and the current salary and benefits package are good but do need an "update". If you want to get a real flavour ask anyone you know but find out how many other airlines they've worked for before as a comparator. I know there have been previous comments on relationships etc but in general the one's that don't work probably never were going to work anyway - we all look for excuses. So as long as you can get your head around being in the RHS for a long time you'll enjoy it.

See you all soon

[GA Button]

It's level headed reasonable blokes like you who make Virgin a nice place to be - looking forward to returning to the fold:ok:

[AFA]

How do you live in London on 46k??

Plus 12K flying pay for 750hrs but I agree...still crap.

[Iver]

Living on 58K in salary/per diem? Very simple - dual incomes (preferrably growing dual incomes). Only partially kidding - you need to identify and marry someone who is professional and a money maker. Why marry a poor teacher or a hostie when you could marry a well-to-do barrister or advertising executive? Think about it. These professionals need love too... If you find someone who fits well in terms of chemistry/looks and she is making good, increasing money, then flying becomes more of a hobby and less stressful from a financial perspective.

Go find some fun nerds who are career-oriented and reduce your monetary dependence!

[Iver]

If the 787 is ever completed, when is it expected on the line at VS (estimated)? How many have been ordered/optioned?

[The Big Easy]

When I went for the interview (failed)! The management bloke said VS had 15 787's on order for delivery late 2013 (I think). He seemed to have more info on the 787 than on the A330's which seemed odd, given the A330's should arrive with VS in the next couple of months!

[xray one]

My guess would be Virgin selling the 787 options (and making money from it!) then being one of the first customers for the A350 which won't (famous last words) be that far behind time wise. It would save on training and probably with some other deal to relieve us of the A333s that will become surplus.

No inside info, as I said just a hunch.

Mind you, who knows what will happen when we eventually get taken over by....well, take your pick!

[vsflight]

Think long and hard before you come to VS. The guys you share the flightdeck with are great but it's certainly not what it used to be.

[scroggs]

Perhaps my post seems overly cautious; of course, Oxymoron666 is quite right that there is still much to be said for the Virgin lifestyle, but it does require that you are free and willing to put the effort in to achieve it. However, many people I've met and discussed longhaul with have a very rose-tinted view of what it's all about, and the Virgin lifestyle in particular. It's important that a bit of realism is injected before you commit to something that isn't what you expected it to be!

I didn't cover command or other opportunities in your Virgin career, or the future for the airline, but - for what it's worth - here's my two-pennorth.

Command will, as the boys have said, be in the region of 12-15 years for a new-joiner now. It's quite possible that the time to command could reduce for those currently waiting if capital is found to fund an expansion at Virgin, but it would have to be a very significant expansion to reduce command times for those joining now. I don't anticipate that there will be expansion to that extent in the next few years, though there are still opportunities for the airline to develop new markets from UK major airports other than LHR. Even at Heathrow, slots do become available (ask the US airlines!) and I believe that Virgin has a small number currently unused. The wider future for the airline is still very much in the melting pot, but I am quite sure that everything from a partial IPO to multiway deals are being considered. However, I don't believe that Virgin Group will dilute its own stake below 25% of the company, and will probably wish to remain the largest single shareholder. We'll see. However, I doubt that there will be significant changes to the operation from a pilot's point of view in the short to medium term.

Future aircraft is an interesting (though largely irrelevant!) discussion. The B787 and A380 both remain firm orders, and the first A330 is about to arrive. There may be much to be said for the A350, but I seriously doubt that the airline will give up relatively firm B787 delivery slots for uncertain A350 slots at this stage. Any further hiccups in the B787 programme could change that, of course. The A380 remains slated for 2015 delivery, and the logic of its inclusion in Virgin's fleet plans remains strong. However, a fleet of 6 is probably too small for the use the airline would like from it. I would expect the 6 options to be taken up, possibly for the -900 if it gets launched in time. In the further future, I would expect the A350-1000 to be the prime candidate for replacing the B747 and A346. It is entirely possible that versions of the A350 could eventually replace all our types (A333/A343/A346/B788/B744), but that's real crystal-ball stuff!

[4engines4longhaul]

Scroggs and Oxymoron I have to say are spot on here.

I joined 13 years ago at the age of 32 and got my command after nearly 8 years, but had a mental plan that 10-12 years was possible. At the time I was a senior F/O at another biggish airline and a year from a command there but was happy that I was joining a lifestyle airline and not chasing a quick buck/command.
Career planning within the airline industry is a notoriously fickle thing to nail down but ultimately you have to be able to reach the age of 60ish and look back on your career with some degree of satisfaction, and that you made more good decisions than bad. Do you want to look at your logbook and see 200 Hong Kongs or 2000 Malaga's spread over a 30-40 year career?

Over my time here the lifestyle has changed dramatically, some for the better and some for the worse. The days of 7 night Capetowns, 5 night Shanghai's, 5 night Delhi's and 4 night Antigua's seem like a distant memory now but I now have more time at home as we still remain a 750 hour airline thus becoming hours and not days limiting. Much is said about the short haul utopia of having every night at home but last month I had 17 nights in my own bed and cleared 72 hours over 4 trips which is fairly standard. My friends in the loco world often complain that being in your own bed each night is all well and good but getting up at 4.30-5.00am for 5 straight days largely cancels out these benefits especially in the dark winter months.

The downroute life here is, as alluded by previous posts very much a case of the more effort you put in, the more you get out. Over the last couple of months I have been skiing in LA, been for a bike ride in San Fran, been on a wine tour in Capetown, had a game of golf in Capetown, got so drunk in Tokyo that I actually sung some awful karaoke, and got some winter sun for a day in Dubai. Mix this all in with some meals out with terrific crew and all is well. The counter to this is some very quiet nights in New York/Boston/Washington where you can go a full 24 hours without seeing anyone. It is during these trips (1 or 2 a month on average) that you need to be ok in your own company. Personally I use this time to read a book, catch up on e-mails etc, which are all things which are difficult to do at home with a young family demanding undivided attention.

I could be a little controversial here and say that the main whingers are the ones for whom Virgin is their first airline. Very subjective I know, and in many cases very unfair, however in my time here I have noticed this to be the case on more than one occasion. Added to this are the small number of colleagues who are bordering on rudeness to the cabin crew in the cruise, and then wonder why they aren't dancing with them and downing flaming shots with them at 3am.

To all those joining this year (40 odd so i hear) I look forward to flying with you.

All the best

[fast cruiser]

Spot on postings by my colleagues..

No need to add anymore...

good luck

[RoyBoy20]

Hello all

Does anybody have an idea of when VS might start recruiting again the future? I just missed the requirements last time round but now should have the required hours to send in an application...

Kind Regards,

[Busbar]

Rumour has it that it should be in the next few weeks. I would advise you to keep an eye out on their website careers section.

Good luck :ok:

[VJW]

Am I right in thinking, only guys with time on the bus need apply?

[First.officer]

Am I right in thinking, only guys with time on the bus need apply?

.....believe some rated bus guys were also rejected, think it helps somewhat considerably if you can get a personal recommendation from a current employee of VA.....that said, a friend of mine is now joining them after doing a stint in the sandpit...oh, he was/is A320 rated with lots of time on type.

[Busbar]

VJW,

When the advert was posted last October, it was for A330/340 rated guys with over 1000 hours on type with considerations given for A320 guys with similar hours requirements. When the Boeing recruitment opened in december it was for B744 rated and over 1000 hours on type.

I would suggest that all will be revealed in the next advertisement. If it says only airbus rated then you are out of luck, however in the past it has been known to take non-rated airbus people. You will find out soon enough I would imagine.

Good luck :ok:

[RoyBoy20]

Sounds optomistic. Am I right in thinking there is not much expansion at Virgin...?

[islandhopper]

Why do you all want to join?

[VJW]

Who said we did? :}

[Busbar]

Why do you all want to join?

Because it's better than a lot of the sh*t that is out there now in the big race to the bottom. :ugh:

[Serenity]

When do the 60 mid bodied airbus, ordered just before xmas start to arrive?

will this mean big expansion/recruitment plans??

[Kestrel_Stu]

When do the 60 mid bodied airbus, ordered just before xmas start to arrive?

I think you are confusing Virgin Atlantic with Virgin America. Although 25% owned by the Virgin Group, Virgin America is not related to Virgin Atlantic and the two airlines are completely separate.

[airbuddy]

Any new rumor on future rounds of recruitment?
Thanx all

[flite idol]

Air France-KLM and Delta Air Lines Inc. are considering a joint bid for Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd., the airline controlled by billionaire Richard Branson, the Sunday Times reported, without saying where it got the information.
Air France and Delta Air Lines have appointed Goldman Sachs Group Inc. as their adviser, the newspaper said.
To contact the reporter on this story: Chris Kay in London at [email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Dick Schumacher at [email protected]

[v1valarob]

Are the new A330 aircraft in addition to the current fleet?

[Jinkster]

I want to work for Virgin Atlantic. I'm currently 2400hrs B737 time and contemplating Emirates or holding out for Virgin (or long haul out of the UK)

Decisions, Decisions!

[spannersatcx]

Are the new A330 aircraft in addition to the current fleet?

Yes both of them!

[bigdunc]

Does anyone actually have some concrete info as to whether VS will be 'recruiting again soon'?

Seems strange timing to me so soon after their last recruitment campaign closed, especially given that the lucky few from last time are apparently swimming in a hold pool rather than a pool in LA on line training... :confused:

[Busbar]

Hold pool? Everyone I know has got start dates. Some joined in January and courses are running for new joiners up to end of June. This is for Airbus though. Don't know about the latest round of Boeing recruitment?

Rumour is this week it will open again, I guess you will find out soon enough. Keep your eyes on the careers website :ok:

[Moffman]

As Busbar said, not sure where this hold pool stuff has come from?? Unless you have confused it with the latest Boeing recruitment? All guys/girls i know joining on the Airbus, all have start dates over the next few months! Good times :)

[Jinkster]

Does anyone know if recruitment for experienced people not type rated and bonds likely to happen?

Thanks :)

[Iver]

TB,

Good job! Can you give us a rough idea of your background - did you have 744 type/time? Did you have heavy Boeing or Airbus time (i.e., is Boeing time a requirement to get considered for a 744 slot)? Just trying to see what is required to be in the running (besides Space Shuttle time).

PM also welcome. Good luck with the rest of the process!

[SeniorEagle]

Do Virgin Atlantic or Virgin America hire Indian Pilots-First officers or Type rated?

[BristolScout]

Interesting snippet in yesterday's Telegraph, saying that Virgin was having difficulty filling its pilots seats!

[Busbar]

BristolScout,

Do you have a link to the article?

[Jinkster]

Interesting times ahead!

[bigdunc]

So where is this new recruitment campaign then lol?!

[Air1980]

I too received an email - 5500TT, B744 TR and a little over 1000 on type. No Shuttle time here either...yet......

[Duff beer]

Do they hire Indian Pilots

Thankfully no, only Brits and Europeans.

Same with V America, nationals only.

[hollingworthp]

Thankfully no, only Brits and Europeans.

Same with V America, nationals only

I would be amazed if this was 100% accurate.

More likely they would only recruit those who have indefinite rights to live and work in the base country (so EU nationals or those married to one or with some other form of permanent visa)

[Manual Reversion]

A few sample rosters:
MCO 1 night, UVF 2 night, JNB 2 night BGI 1 night. 63hrs Block
LAS 2 night, BGi 2 night, LAS 2 night, MCO 1 night LAS 2night. 75hr block
HAV 4 night, JNB 2 night, MCO 2 night, SFO 2 night .68hr block

[Whispering Giant]

I've just checked the Virging Atlantic career's page and they have now opened recruitment for the Pilot hold pool.
To be considered if your coming from a civil background - you need either a Airbus or a Boeing type rating and experience or if your from the military you need a minimum of 3000 hours, and 1500 hours either fast jet or heavy experience.

brgds

W.G

[scandman]

Why do you need a UK issued ATPL? What's the difference if it's any other JAA country? Can just transfer if you become employed?

[Cloud Bunny]

You must hold a current Class one Medical and a full JAA ATPL licence (UK issue).


That'll rule out 1000s of Ryanair F/O's then!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[quazz]

I am once again angry at my turbo-prop rating :*

[San Expiry]

I am once again angry at my (useless read Avro RJ) type rating.

Why is it OK to be ex-mil with 3000hrs and no airline experience but not OK to be civil with 3000hrs and years of airline experience.:ugh:

[MJR]

Does anyone foresee Virgin getting Embraer 145's in the near future?

[trigger21]

Can any of the guys that went through the Airbus selection a couple of months ago shed some light on what to expect? Got a B744 Hold Pool interview, but it's only a 4 hour slot for the whole day....Obviously there are group exercises, but are there computer based aptitude tests?

Thanks

[Jinkster]

I am rather happy although 2950hrs total time!

B737 Type rated - 2300 hours on type.

UK issue ATPL

[Oceanic815]

San Expiry

It's simply the case that to achieve 3000 hrs of military flying would take most people at least 10 years and involve a variety of roles and specialist flying whereas 3000 hrs civil flying can be gained in 3.5 years by following the 'magenta line!' - I'm sure you would agree that the levels of flying 'experience' are vastly different.

(this post is not meant to antagonise but is merely a statement as to how the airlines view it)

[rod_1986]

Just to clarify, is the 3000 hours requirement for all applications? Or just from military guys?

I thought the goalposts were at 2500 for Airbus rated guys a few months back... :confused:

[xray one]

Does anyone foresee Virgin getting Embraer 145's in the near future?

Only as tugs.....

[Jinkster]

If coming from a commercial background you must have an Airbus or Boeing rating and experience with 3000 hours, 1000 on type.



If coming from a military background you will need to have 3000 hours which should include at least 1500 hours Fast Jet or heavy experience.


You must hold a current Class one Medical and a full JAA ATPL licence (UK issue).

You should be able to demonstrate a high level of fluency in English (ICAO level 6 English Proficiency).

Finally, you should be able to swim a minimum of 25 metres continuously, unaided.

[San Expiry]

Oceanic

'I'm sure you would agree that the levels of flying 'experience' are vastly different.'

Yes, I would agree with you and as an ex crab I am fully aware of the inherent poling skills of the winged master race. However, I have flown with many, many 'civilians' whose poling ability has been equally on a par with ex mil.

I would also point out that for every civilain pilot that can log 20 hrs on a return trip to Singapore, there are half a dozen that would take a week of 4 sector days to log the same time so that 3000hrs only comes up in a short period for a minority.

And don't fall into the trap of equating experience with ability. Whilst I understand Virgin wanting crew that are already familiar with Boeing or Airbus systems, I think they are misguided in discriminating between ex mil with no commercial experience and and civil pilots with a great deal of the aforementioned.

[james brown]

It's simply the case that to achieve 3000 hrs of military flying would take most people at least 10 years and involve a variety of roles and specialist flying whereas 3000 hrs civil flying can be gained in 3.5 years by following the 'magenta line!' - I'm sure you would agree that the levels of flying 'experience' are vastly different.

I'm sorry but that is utter rubbish.

If you arrogantly assume civil flying entails following magenta lines you are very misinformed.
What does someone flying a C-17 from the Middle east to the UK do all day? How relevant is flying a Harrier or F3 to airline ops?

Speak to most TRE's and a fair percentage will say that EX FJ drivers have problems adjusting to multi crew ops.

And 300 hours per year?! Some may argue that isn't enough to safely stay current.

I have masive respect for Mil pilots and their skill set and what they put up with lifestyle wise. But i take issue with anyone trying to justify that they are somehow better adjusted to civilian long or short haul operations. I have flown with two. One was a good guy, eager to learn and realised he had a long way to go before being considered for command.

but is merely a statement as to how the airlines view it

One airline, not all airlines.

[Jinkster]

I wouldn't bother telling someone at an interview that all airline pilots do is follow magenta lines - it might not get you very far!

[Chris Griffin]

San Expiry - why should the fact you fly fare paying passengers on a commercial basis necessarily put you at an advantage over someone who has essentially done the same job but for the MoD with the same constraints? Same job is it not?

There are very few FJ mates who could meet these hours criteria so I wouldn't be too disheartened. These guys may not have commercial experience but have proven handling ability, learning ability and flexibility so much so that some employers recognize the value of such, notwithstanding the obvious learning curve of operating multi-crew.

I fully agree that these days mil pilots are not inherently better than any civilian counterparts. However, Oceanic 815 is broadly correct in stating that the attainment of 3000 takes a mil pilot umpteen years,even those of us on heavies. My average annual total for the past few years is around the 400hrs mark including many months in a sandpit.

I dont think any current or ex mil would advocate we are better, because it certainly isnt true. We just bring a different skill set to the party and generally we are fairly content in being flexible and handling last minute changes because I guarantee you guys in the civilian sector have not been bu**ered about as much as some of us have! I dont know what I'm doing tomorrow never mind in one/two/three weeks time!

[windshear-a-head]

Don't think so, I've just completed my application. :ok:

[San Expiry]

'I dont know what I'm doing tomorrow never mind in one/two/three weeks time!

Chris, perhaps to not quite the same degree as the Services expects but there are a lot of guys out here on the other side of the fence who also have to put up with life like that. We're not all on BA bid lines.:{

Of course it's the same job. My point is that Virgin is discriminating, as is their right, against the non Boeing/Airbus type rated 'civvy' in favour of the non Boeing/Airbus type rated mil pilot, that's all.

[superstall]

I've just submitted my application too so all seems to be well with the website

[Jinkster]

How many days off between trips?

[fast cruiser]

depends on the trip but normally its 2 days for east coast/caribbean and 3 days for west coast/South Africa..

B747-400 does'nt go eastbound.

[Deeply Concerned]

Just announced on the BBC website the creation of 450 new jobs including 50 pilot positions. All linked to the arrival of the 330 and new routes. Good luck everyone.

[RVR800]

BBC News - Airline giant Virgin Atlantic creates 450 jobs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-12710070)

[RVR800]

BBC News - Airline giant Virgin Atlantic creates 450 jobs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-12710070)

[windshear-a-head]

Good stuff, hopefully my 330 rating will come in handy. :ok:

[BBK]

I think the requirements are driven by the desire to take candidates eligible for Zero Flight Time (ZFT) training. Similarly, I imagine pilots with B744 or Airbus ratings, especially 330/340, are ahead of the pack as the company can save money on their training.

I don't doubt the flying ability of, for example, fast jet pilots, but airlines ops are all about making money. It's that simple.

FWIW Virgin already has a good mix of ex mil and civvy trained pilots.

[Pin Head]

Guys it is all about lowering the costs and importanty lowering the training risk. I completely understand why they have done it. Good for them. Please be patient your time will come. It took me10yrs!

[farefield]

Sadly for all you hopefuls,this is old news.The A330's are just about here and the recruiting has been done.

This is just another attempt to get the airline in the news again

A 1 to 8 office to flying staff ratio,says it all really.

[Seven Fifty Seven]

Hi

Could I please ask any current Virgin pilots whether commuting from the Scottish Central Belt on a Virgin roster is realistically an option, whilst also maintaining a family life? Please be as brutally honest as you like as it may well determine whether I go for the interview or not. I see a number of Cabin Crew commuting daily, but not many Flight Deck Crew, which may answer the question anyway. I've read a lot of the info that you've all kindly put on here and in other threads, so this really is my only question about it all. If anyone is wanting to know, I'm at 6000 hours, 1600 jet and 3000 turbo.

Many thanks

[Jinkster]

Fast cruiser - thanks for your reply.

My application was submitted a few days ago.

[3wings]

757,

there are guys in the company that commute from all over the uk and europe.

you have 3 simple options, fly, train or drive.

Edinburgh and Glasgow are fine for flying, depends if you are looking at mainly Gatwick or Heathrow trips. Many guys commute this way from your area. Your staff travel concessions start after 6 months so there will be a few issues to start with.

Train from Glasgow is easy with virgin trains (reduced fares)

Driving will be too far. I drive from N Yorkshire occasionally which hurts after a trip.

Hope it helps

[bigdunc]

Would anyone on the inside be willing to give a rough idea of a year 1 F/O take home pay per month? Also perhaps an idea of how the increments go up through the years?

Thanks a lot.

[NEDude]

Thankfully no, only Brits and Europeans.

Same with V America, nationals only.

We have hired several expats at Virgin America. I also know of at least one Indian. Of course you need a green card/right to work and the FAA licenses. But if you have that, getting hired as an expat at Virgin America would be no issue.

Really hoping for a pilot exchange program between Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America similar to the flight attendant exchange between Virgin America and Virgin Blue...

I know, wishful thinking.

[wingsandturbines]

Hi,

I ve got all the requirements except for the UK issued licence!
Can anyone tell me how serious they are about this? Surely I would have plenty of time to convert it should I be one of the lucky ones to join the holding pool.....Do they ask about a UK issued ATPL during the web application?
How long does this web application take? Do they have open questions like with BA?

Thanks

WAT

[Seven Fifty Seven]

3wings, many thanks for your reply, much appreciated. Hadn't even considered the Glasgow Central - Virgin Trains link! Very useful.

Cheers 757

[potkettleblack]

Airline "GIANT". Branding is everything huh. Hats off to their PR team though.

[Artie Fufkin]

Not sure it was in this thread or a previous one, but someone mentioned that Virgin don't do airport standbys. If so, what's the call out time they expect when on standby? (ie how close would you have to accommodate yourself during a standby duty?)

[Freddie-M]

Standby month of a roughly equal mix of 4 hr and 2 hr callout. "Must be able to report at their nominated base within 120 mins".

[Artie Fufkin]

Top stuff, thanks freddie

(wasn't a deal clincher, but good to know)

[knappsimon]

I know it's a touchy subject but....can anyone offer a guide as to take home for an Fo

Cheers

[Fly Better!]

I guarantee you guys in the civilian sector have not been bu**ered about as much as some of us have! I dont know what I'm doing tomorrow never mind in one/two/three weeks time!

Dont bank on it! :) I think it depends who you work for :{

[AIAA]

Can I ask:
When you say '2 night' do you mean 2 nights at the destination plus one night flying back to the UK?
I realise that this depends on the destination, but for most of USA and 'the west' would this be true? Eg:

Monday 1000z Heathrow-Vegas
Tuesday 'layover'
Wednesday 2300z Vegas-Heathrow
Thursday arrive Heathrow 0700

Friday 'Day Off'
Saturday 'Day Off'

Sunday another trip...

I'm keen to get the 'unglorified' view. If you are saying that my Vegas example is a 2 night trip, in my eyes it pretty much equates to 4 days work. I know you can argue that you've got your return day to yourself, but from experience you're pretty much usesless.
How many proper days off do you get a month? I don't mean 'days at home', but actual days when you're not knackered/recovering?
I'm just trying to gauge what the lifestyle is really like.
ALSO if someone is brave enough to publish a 1st yr FO take home pay that would be great (after pension contribution).
Thanks very much

[DRM1973]

depends on the trip but normally its 2 days for east coast/caribbean and 3 days for west coast/South Africa..

B747-400 does'nt go eastbound.

How do they get back then. LOL

[VJW]

Fill her up and keep flying west! You'll get there eventually.
:ok:

[Jinkster]

Anyone heard anything yet?

[JB007]

Closing date 20th March!

It's also Saturday night Jinkster! You've not had much experience of HR departments have you?!?

[brakedwell]

Fill her up and keep flying west! You'll get there eventually.

Despite the permanent headwind. :ouch:

[OBK!]

Out of interest, did everyone upload the cover letter too? Noticed an option for that at the last minute.

[Callsign Kilo]

Would also be very interested to hear of any possibility of a Sim. As an Airbus guy, a one off sim in a 73' could make me look very 'special'!!

I'm hoping that if it is the case (and if I'm lucky enough to get that far through selection!!!), then I'll have enough notice to do some good prep'!

Jesus, imagine having to trim an aeroplane! :p Good luck should you get the assessment :ok:

[Jinkster]

I sent both cover letter and a CV.

Good luck all!

[Downtown1994]

AAIA

I can't answer you question regarding the 1st year FO take home pay but in response to your question regarding 1 night/2night stops rotation.

All rosters commence at LHR as that is your base. The Vegas as an example operates from LGW so on the roster the duty would commence from LHR and 1hr taxi time is allowed for transport to LGW (Company transport is available in the form of a bus but the times aren't always compatible with report times).

In reality most pilots self position to LGW for the report time 90 mins before departure.

You would arrive in Vegas that day 4pm ish.. local. Have 2 nights there (approx 48hrs down route) and then fly home on the 3rd. So a trip beginning on Monday a.m will have you home on Thursday a.m.

A 1 nighter would start for example on the Monday (then approx 24 hrs down route) and you would be home on Wednesday... or more realistically start on Friday and home on Sunday but you get the drift.

For West coast trips the minimum days off will be 3 and the East coast trips the minimum days off is 2. Days off per month vary but I have only had the minimum of 10 days off perhaps twice in 7 years. Usually I average around 12 - 14 but on occasions 20 without leave. It can be a bit of a lottery.

Everyone will handle the fatigue issue differently and it can be tough particularly if you have a long commute. Generally though I am unbearable the day I get home but can be approached by mid morning the following day.

Hope that helps.

[Busbar]

i have a housing allowance also !

Well you obviously don't work in the UK then. You won't get a housing allowance from a UK airline. If you want to earn big money then you have 2 options:

1. Change career
2. Keep working abroad tax free

Good luck :ok:

[dancing sausage]

Out of interest has anyone heard anything back from Virgin yet, with reference to their application for the First officer holding pool recruitment with a closing date of 21st March?

Is no news, good news?

[airbuddy]

Applied on the very first days but no news yet....TT 4500 A320 and A330 TR (2500+ on long haul).
Cheers
AB

[waddlers]

Cant seem to get accurate info about Virgins selection day. Can someone please send me a link for some well needed insight!

[Heavy operator]

Here's a useful link with some accurate "insight" to life inside Virgin Atlantic - The Reality and the Dream (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/all_fur_coat_and_no_knickers)

[Count von Altibar]

I like it Heavy Operator! :D

[Spikedog]

As waddlers has stated, I also can't find any up to date information on the current interview/testing/sim ride process with Virgin.

Can anyone who has been through it recently shed any light on the process?

Many thanks

Spike

[waddlers]

Well thanks Spike at least i know theres a sim ride involved!

[Spikedog]

I don't know if there is a sim ride. it looks like no one is giving anything away about Virgin's recruitment process for some reason!

[sharpclassic]

I put an application in back in October...

Still haven't heard anything.


How is it that BA can get 1600 applications in 5 days and still manage to send a response to everyone, even if it's a no, within 2 weeks?

[Narrow Runway]

It's because BA is run by people who:

A) Have a plan, and:

B) Know what they're doing.

Virgin is a shambolic disaster zone.

[airbuddy]

Same here Brian....A330 rated but nothing heard so far...

[flyforfood1]

A330 rated...nothing heard either, no news is good news I guess. :rolleyes:

[Big Wings]

.... allegedly 14 pilots have just resigned off the 400 (almost certainly to go to BA), so there may be movement soon.

[BBK]

Big Wings

Any chance you could elaborate??

[station calling...]

Hi guys,

Is there anyone who would be so kind to give a up to date sample of a 340/330/74 roster?

Cheers!

[springbok449]

I hear that it's not just on the 400 that people are resigning either...

[3wings]

BIG WINGS said
allegedly 14 pilots have just resigned off the 400 (almost certainly to go to BA), so there may be movement soon.

Way off the mark, much less from what I know

Sringbok

where is your evidence? scaremongering for the sake of it shows a malevolent streak that we could do without. I have very little evidence, at the moment, of other than usual departures from the ranks.

If anything with new routes this year recruitment (and commands) will increase.:=

[StopStart]

Check the date he posted..... This thread has been resurrected from about a year ago.

[Narrow Runway]

Yeehaa!!!!

A couple of Command positions will bring the approximate waiting time down from about 18 years for current joiners, to about 17 years, 11 months and 3 weeks.

Whatever the accurate figures (never known), it is a loooong time.

[Count von Altibar]

It will only get worse if the bmi deal goes through without a significant slot surrender to Virgin. I can see them stagnating out of Heathrow. Perhaps they'll look more to the regions for expansion purposes in the future & subsequently command time could come down.

[springbok449]

3 wings,

Scaremongering forthe sake of it? How do you work that stating facts about guys resigning from either fleet is scaremongering is beyond me, am just stating facts, let's face it we are not talking about the mass exodus that FR is suffering!
Next time the seniority list is updated take a look for yourself and compare it with the previous one...

[Narrow Runway]

Bokkie,

Would that be the same seniority list that the "management" couldn't update during the 2009 redundancies? Because there was no "line" drawable as to where the redundancies would stop/start?

That was utterly ridiculous of the company to trot out that drivel, to those at risk of redundancy.

In fact, that was the single, final nail in the coffin for me. They just don't give a sh1t about anyone IMHO.

And I agree with you. Your comment about resignations cannot be seen as scaremongering. Surely if people are leaving, that's a good thing for job seekers on this bulletin board.

I wonder if 3 Wings is Boeing Fleet "management"? He shows the kind of logic to be.:ok:

[MrBernoulli]

It will only get worse if the bmi deal goes through without a significant slot surrender to Virgin. I can see them stagnating out of Heathrow. Perhaps they'll look more to the regions for expansion purposes in the future & subsequently command time could come down. I'm curious, what makes you think any slots should be surrendered to Virgin?

With regard to the regions, Beardy has moaned about BA's alleged monoply on certain Scottish routes out of LHR. Why isn't Virgin operating flights to Scotland, to improve the situation? Probably because Virgin is financially on the bones of it's arse and doesn't have the cash to run it's current operation, never mind new routes.

Virgin's business model has been looked at by potential buyers/partners and all of them have walked away - Singapore still cannot get rid of its 49% share. Virgin Atlantic is one very sick beastie.

[Iver]

So, what is the deal with the new airplanes coming on board in a few years and how might that impact pilot recruitment? Are the 787s and the A380s (if they do indeed arrive), expected to displace or supplement current types (i.e., will the 787s replace the A330s or even some of the older 400s)? Will there be a net gain in aircraft or will the fleet size remain near 2012 levels?

I realise many things could change but it would be interesting to hear more about the plan (if they have one)... :ugh::eek::8

[xray one]

MrBernoulli wrote

Virgin Atlantic is one very sick beastie.

please back up your claim with facts. As for VAA starting routes to Scotland and the other monopolised BA routes, where do VAA get the slots from? You post without thinking; the bottom line is that if the merger of AIG and BMI goes through, the price of tickets to those airports only serviced by BA would increase.

[Kitsune]

Well, if, as it seems possible, LH closes BMI down, we'll see how quickly the Bearded Backside jumps into the loss making Scottish routes, won't we?;)

[londonmet]

X-ray one,

From the slot pairs they've leased out as they have no need to use them - the "surplus" ones?

[Nearly Man]

All good for him to bleat on. He finished off cheap flights from Manchester, then increased fares hugely on his Pendadildo trains when there wasn't any competition. My glass eye has a tear for his plight.