New to the AS-350 BA, any advice??

[Azzkiker]

I've taken a job flying the AS-350BA conducting tours of the Grand Canyon... any advice from those who have flown this model recently? Any advice from those who have flown tours of the Grand Canyon?

Thanks!

[the coyote]

The fuel can slosh around and rock the aircraft slightly, which at first seems weird.

[Arm out the window]

The sloshing seems to happen most at about 55% fuel-ish.

The governor is pretty rock solid so depending on what you've flown before you'll probably be impressed with how Nr stays put.

Have a read of the 'servo transparency / jack stall' thread that's getting around to find out a bit about that - suffice it to say that if you fly like a normal, reasonably smooth pilot you won't have a drama with it.

It's twitchy in the hover particularly over a hard pad, and will tap dance around on the springy rear of the skids as you're trying to land it.

Have you flown AS350 models before, and looking for info on the BA in particular, or new to the ASTAR/Squirrel/Ecureil? Guess I should have asked that first.

[Devil 49]

All in all, it's just a simple, tough helicopter.

If it means anything to you, a BA is just a B with gray (asymmetric) blades and some mechanical magic that allows you to lift 330 lbs more and pull a little more torque. If you were operating light, the BA is faster than a B. The BA feels a little less nimble than the B. It could be that I ran BA in the summer more recently than a B, but the BA seems more affected by DA. My guess is that summer DA would make performance planning critical at the rim altitudes.

Remembering my transition to type:
I missed the ground idle stop, a lot.
Right side down at a hover felt really weird.
The skid heel springs mean I never, ever, feel for the ground. Every freakin' time I do, I embarrass myself- and I have something like 20 years in type.
Right vs left pedal was only an issue as I spun up to operating RPM from ground idle. Going the other way isn't an issue for me because I can't snap it back to ground idle- there's no stop (also embarrassing).
Lots of tail rotor authority.
Yes, the unbaffled fuel sloshes. Hover like Granny in her big old Buick, and not an issue.
Do read the RFM carefully, especially the hydraulic bits. The system installed is simple but a little quirky. I'm not apprehensive about the servo transparency issue, but I don't honk this thing around where it could hurt me, either.
Otherwise, it's a hoot to fly- not quite a Hughes 500, or even a 300- but still agile and controllable compared to Bells. On that note, the cyclic seems more proportionate in both axis as compared to the 206, which seemed to take a lot of pitch.

[nigelh]

Make sure collective clicks in firmly to the catch when fully down .....always guard it when you do hyd test as it will take off if the clip fails !!
Very easy forgiving helicopter to fly but if i get another one it will be with LTS101 engine and NOT french one !!

[Bell_Flyer]

Don't leave the AS350BA in the hot sun (say 100deg F or more), the entire roof lining will deform, melt, and fall down on the seats.

[Azzkiker]

Thanks for the info... when flying at 4000'msl in 40c temps, what limit are you likely to hit first in a hover... torque, temp, or gas production/compressor limit?

[BH06L3]

I have rarely ever had the BA reach it's max torque and only on cooler days at lower altitudes. At 4000' and 40C you won't even come close on torque most likely NG. The BA is a great machine And flying tours you will probably be able to get 6 pax plus 50-60% fuel which makes it a lot more useful than the 206L.

If you have never flown the AS350 what I found useful when starting was extend your little finger down the shaft of the throttle so the back of your finger is flush to the back of the throttle. Then when you advance it forward it usually will light off around when your little finger hits the first notch of the throttle casing then you just have to back it off a little and wait and you know exactly where the throttle is at all times by feel. It's an easy and fun machine to fly with lots of tail rotor authority just don't pick up bad habits and fly it like a Bell and you will never get in trouble.

[ReverseFlight]

All good advice here.

One I'll add is check meticulously the "rubber band" during pre-flight. If you are not confident about handling a hydraulics failure in an AS350, get some training with an instructor first. There's nothing like knowing what to expect beforehand.

[havick]

the finger behind the throttle and feeling for the gate when starting, is probably one of single best pieces of advice you can get from a technique perspective..

I had someone show me one day, and it makes for an absolute predictable start every time, as the throttle position is a now a known quantity it helps to immediately identify a warmer start than usual prior to the ITT even getting close to limits.

have fun..

[BH06L3]

Another similar trick with the throttle when idling down is jam your little finger against the top of the flight gate. Then you can bring the throttle down rather quickly and when it hits that finger is about when you will see a significant change and you can then adjust slowly to 70%..... Seen quite a few guys in a hurry rushing, and bring the throttle down too quick and shut off the engine from 100%.

[Gordy]

A bunch of good advice...I will add mine:

1. When full of fuel, and by yourself, be careful about backing up---you will hit the stinger on the ground, and it crinkles the tail boom. Happened on Kauai, right in front of me.

2. When landing, just imagine you are doing a run-on landing really slowly...it will help with the "Astar Wobble" when the fuel sloshes.

3. If you have not had a Hydraulics failure, just remember yours is coming.... I found it easier to keep about 50kts till I was 30 feet and then flare all the way to touchdown---not quite textbook but worked for me both times.

4. For hot loading/unloading and refueling, we always turned the hydraulics off. It is also the easiest way to level the blades while on the ground.

5. While shutting down---do NOT let anyone walk under the blades....they WILL get them in the head---this happened on Kauai.

6. As stated before, check and double check the collective is locked BEFORE doing the hyd off test on the ground. It will jump up and you will not be able to recover---again, happened on Kauai two pads down from me.

7. Tis a great aircraft to fly---I have almost 7k hours in them---enjoy.

I leave you with something I have posted before......my TR failure:

Had a T/R failure in a B2 Astar on a tour with six passengers on board. I first realized the problem coming out of an out of ground effect hover. To this day I still get confused as to whether you call it stuck left or right---basically I had about an inch and a half of left forward pedal, and was not able to push right pedal. I had the non power pedal forward. Ultimately we found the flexible ball control cable had frayed inside the plastic sheath.

So as I pushed left pedal, the cable would slide freely inside the sheath, when I pushed right --- the frayed cable dug into the sheath and would not slide. Biggest thing to remember—FLY THE AIRCRAFT. I elected to fly back to the nearest airport with crash rescue facilities----not pessimistic, just stacking the odds in my favor, plus it gave me 30 minutes of transit time to figure it out in my head.

Unfortunately for me---I used to switch between a 206 and an Astar frequently---the previous flight less than an hour prior to this was in the Bell---hence I do not like to say stuck left/right but try to think of it as power and non power pedal. Also, the company I worked for did NOT provide factory training, I had never done this procedure in the aircraft---read about it once--- and in fact my annual Astar training consisted of 30 minutes flying with the owner, who flew on average about 30 hours a year. (Welcome to Hawaii !---although to be fair---there are some decent operators out there). I told my passengers everything, (was later chastised by the owner---should have kept my mouth shut---I no longer fly in Hawaii ! !), I felt they were entitled to know what was going on.


For better or worse, I elected to attempt a shallow approach to a run on landing. I had enough fuel for about an hour, so I was in no rush. The wind sock was spinning on the pole, so therefore no wind. I picked the longest runway---as the speed approached about 20 kts, the aircraft started slowly spinning left, and I did a go around without pulling power till I got some more airspeed and chose a different runway. This attempt, same thing, another go around---did not pull power till I got some speed. I was starting to think that if this next attempt did not work---I would cut the engine and do an auto.

This time the aircraft started spinning faster, my gut reaction was to go around, but I started pulling power----WRONG, this increased the spin violently, instinct, gut reaction, luck and the voice in my head said CUT POWER----which I half did.

I got the FFCL out of the flight gate and about half way back to idle, the earth had stop spinning and I was about 10 feet up, drifting slowly forward and descending slowly, with 3 fire trucks about 100 feet in front of me. I let the aircraft settle to the ground, shut it down, and realized that adrenalin is really brown!!!!!!! I personally was not happy the way it turned out---I felt I should have nailed it on the first attempt, I should NOT have let the aircraft spin, but I am somewhat of a perfectionist, and I need to live with that. That being said, No damage to the aircraft, one passenger had passed out and was given medical attention on scene, the rest were all fine, I spilled my coffee on the runway and had to beg a soda from one of the firefighters!!!!
What did I learn?

1. FLY THE AIRCRAFT.
2. As stated above do not refer to this as stuck left/right, it gets too confusing when switching aircraft types.
3. Take your time; make as many approaches as needed.
4. No matter what anyone says—there is no text book way to do it.
5. I did not do the “text book” procedure—but it worked.
6. If you all walk away from it---you did good, learn and move on.

One more side note; The company did not initially refund the passengers their money until a few months later one of them asked for a copy of the NTSB report we filed as it came under NTSB 830.5 (a) (1) ----guess what---company did not file one, make sure one gets filed---you could be liable if not.

[DynamicallyUnstable]

Lots of good stuff here. When I first started flying the ASTAR, I searched this forum and found a thread dedicated to the ASTAR. LOTS of good information there, I suggest you do the same.
One thing I'll add to the ASTAR info is keep in ming your W&B when you lift off. When you lift, it is going to lift right rear skid low MOST of the time. Put a little aft rear cyclic in and lift SLOWLY. Then the aircraft will come up a lot more steady and that right rear corner will be the last to come up. Makes for MUCH smoother and vertical pick ups. (This info is mostly if you're used to flying smaller AC) If you've flown the S300, think of the pick up in the S300. The front left is the last part to come off the ground so you put in a little forward left cyclic when you lift so the front corner of the skid comes up last. TRUST me this will help you.
Also, you will be MAXED out on power in that thing ALL THE TIME!!! I flew a BA in LV one time when it was 103F out with 3/4 bag of fuel and one other person (big guy) and it was WORKING to hover! I was shocked but I was used to a lot cooler temps in AK. I never did a tour in a BA in LV (got on with a different operator instead) but thought "wow, this is gonna be rough when it's loaded up!" so make sure you're solid on power management. It doesn't have a "taddle tale" which you might think is a good thing (I hope not) but my concern is, 'how much has this thing been over speed/tq'd before?'.
Oh one other thing...the air conditioning. I believe it is the same or at least very similar to the EC130 and if so the circuit breaker will pop ANYTIME you heat soak the AC. The CB is in the right side cheek of the aircraft so you have to land, shut down, get out, reset it, start up, take off to reset it. It is a PAIN! And dealing with no AC with the OAT near 50*c and PAX from Europe that think that 30*c is hot is going to be dangerous for them...not an option. There are a couple of things you can do to help prevent the CB from popping. Cycle the AC on/off every 30 seconds if you're on the ground. That way it doesn't heat soak while you're sitting there. It'll be hot and it'll suck but you can't risk popping that breaker. Do not keep the AC on until you reach ETL. That way there is a constant fresher airflow flowing through the condenser. On the ground or in a hover, you're blowing hot exhaust right into that vent and that's gonna do you no good.

Since you're flying a BA (not a B2) and asked about 4000' (the altitude of the Ranch, not the canyon or BC or LV), I assume you're flying with HeliUSA? A little advice on that.... thorough preflights. I know (had friends that worked there) that MX used to be an issue but last I knew they got a really good mechanic from Maverick and that would make me feel a lot better. Maybe things are better now anyways? I'm not trying to bag on them, just be cautious.

Nobody has addressed the Canyon so I'll see if I can help with that. Be vigilant! It is very easy to get complacent with the monotony the Canyon brings with time but you know what they say about complacency. Learn the routes and FOLLOW THEM. Everyone else is counting on you to do the Green 4 properly and you need to be where you're expected to be. You'll get people that will ask you where you're going or what you're doing. Be humble about it, a lot of those guys have been there for a long time and they are just trying to keep you on the right track. Kinda funny way of guidance but guidance nonetheless. When you are leaving Vegas, the others (Maverick and Sundance) will be CLOSE behind. They are much faster than the BA and will be looking to pass you right outside city limits. Most guys are cool and will give you a heads up or ask you if you mind if they pass. Don't let it bother you, they're just trying to not be held up. Believe me, when you get out late and you have schedules to meet and you know there is a BA ahead of you, you're like "aw great." Just be courteous and most of them will be as well.
Pay attention to your radio! A lot of times people get so wrapped up in their tour that they don't hear the common traffic radios when it's a lot more important.
Also, if you are going to HELI, make sure when you depart the ranch, you're watching for the Mavericks going to the fuel farm. You'll be climbing and they'll be descending on converging routes. The good thing is they are left hand drive and I think you're right hand drive so you wont have a bunch of heads in your way when you're looking for them and neither will they.
Just be safe man, it's not rocket science but it can be dangerous when there are 20 other helicopters in your vicinity.
I hope this helps. Feel free to ask if you have anymore questions.

[heliduck]

After a while you'll notice the fuel sloshing less & less as you become more familiar with the feel of the cyclic & stop "chasing" the a/c with it. The fuel doesn't decide to slosh on it's own, it's reacting to inputs from the cyclic. I usually only notice it now on the flight home after a big day when I'm tired.

If you've been flying Bell products it can be a bit disconcerting in an AS350 when your taking off heavy. As the a/c begins to move forward it will "drop off" it's air cushion so be ready for it. Don't crawl along with your skids just off the ground looking for translation like a bell, if you do you'll hit the ground when it descends. Gain enough height in the hover to put you right at the top of ground effect & move forward into an area which doesn't have logs/rocks etc poking up into your departure path. Not an issue if you can HOGE as you can just pull more power, but when your at max & can't pull any more this will stop you hitting something.

The "A-Star Shuffle" can be damned frustrating when landing, but it's not the machine shuffling, it's the pilot. Because they usually hang tail low in the hover there is a large distance between the disc & the tail rotor centre-line. This means that even a small TR input will roll the aircraft considerably, causing the spring on the rear of the skid to bounce up & down on the ground, pissing off the pilot & giving us 10 or 15 landing charges for each arrival! It's not easy, but discipline yourself to control with cyclic & most of all be patient. After a while you'll grease it on, but initially be prepared to hover there until you get it right before settling it onto the ground. EYES UP!!

I've never experienced "Jack Stall" but I spoke to a bloke who fly through some sever turbulence once & experienced it. He lost 4500ft & was descending while turning right when he got control back, scary stuff. I fly my machine as smooth as I can & I slow down in the mountains when it's windy, I'll check back when I retire to let you know if this worked for me.

Like most people that fly them, once you've been in any of the 350 family you understand what how a helicopter should fly!!

[Bell_Flyer]

The Torque gauge. Sometimes (1 in 30-40 starts or so for me) when you power up the Squirrel on the ground, say to refuel, the Torque gauge needle goes anticlockwise once per second - like a quick stop watch. If you power down and up, the same thing happens. If you leave it on for awhile, the needle eventually stops.

Spoke to dozens of pilots who have seen this from B to B2. Couldn't demo this to mechanics because it won't repeat it whilst they are watching.

Doesn't happen in flight. Most pilots I speak to, just live with this quirk.

[heliduck]

The TQ guage unwinding with A/C power turned on is caused by water in the transducer or the wiring harness where it goes down through the engine drip tray. I've spent hours trying to dry this out after washing the engine bay, & resorted to changing the transducer on the engine to fix the problem. I learnt to never use a hose in that area, electra-clean & rags from now on!!

[Bell_Flyer]

Heliduck - thanks. If what you say is true, I am going to scold Eurocopter Maintenance (they have a venerable guru who knows EVERYTHING about 350's) and 2 other large-ish maintenance organisations who also didn't know about this. Then I am going to tell the solution to half a dozen professional pilots I consulted including 2 with well over 10,000 hours about this. To think I could have spent thousands replacing the TQ meter!!

Where is the transducer?

Thanks again - I love the internet, PPRUNE and your reply.

[heliduck]

Bell Flyer,
Right hand side of the engine bottom of the M01, just above the chip plug, mounted with a banjo bolt. Needs to be calibrated when fitted but your engineer will know all about that. Make sure the canon plugs are moisture free first as that'll probably be cheaper! I've got a photo if you need one but it's been a long time since I posted a photo so I'd need to arrange myself a checkride on that.
The fault I experienced wasn't intermittent, it was continuous which grounded the A/C, motivated me to solve the problem instead of "putting up with it". Good luck.

[helisphere]

Don't forget that above 40 kts the top of the green on torque is the new red line(didn't make this mistake but saw someone who did). Don't forget to remove the tailrotor guard ( yes, I did this one, I know, I was distracted on my preflight). And shoot your approaches to the ground, not to a hover, it makes you look like a way better pilot :)

And don't ever think that because you have control of the start fuel that you won't overtemp, yes, I did that one too :( Always take turbine starts seriously and watch those engine parameter's like a hawk

You'll love her though, she's a great ship, even the model's with less power...

Oh yeah one more thing, if when you are throttling up from idle to flight, you go through a strong vertical vibe in the instrument panel - your tail rotor needs balancing. yes I learned that one when I f'd up on the t/r guard, but it's true and I put the screws to a mechanic later on that didn't believe me on that one... I was right...

And always, always do a walk around before you crank...

[victor papa]

The spinning torque gauge is indeed 99% of the time caused by water/moisture on the plug(the big one on the LH side going from engine to airframe). We also do not bring water close and since then no problems-the Arriel is not a engine that leaks except if something is wrong so more often than not there should only be dust and grass etc in the engine deck so no need to make it swim. Another area which does not like water is the NR plug on the RH side of the MGB-be careful with water as it often leads to the NR min/max audio not working.

Enjoy the ride! I am sure you will be wondring what the B3 is all about then.................

[cool_for_cats]

-on the DA, be prepared to hit NG limits first with that temp, any temp over about 35 and it is more than likely an NG limit you will see in the first instance
-canyons - no belly up turns to the valley walls, demarcation lines and rotors at over 30kts wind will cause you reasonable control issues in the BA.
-HYD Fail - it is quite flyable HYD out, but as a rule get it on the deck asap as a HYD Fire is a far more serious condition, as a maintenance test pilot we flight test the hydraulic flight out loads to 100kias, workload is lowest 40-60kias - go for a running landing on grass (ideally 20-30yards length of clear area) via a slow shallow approach into wind, wash the speed off early and adjust your cyclic hand position to aft of the stick as you will get significant control reversal through transition. Just keep it at a slow apparent walking pace and don't go to the hover. It can be landed from the hover just fine hyd out, but I would not attempt it with high auw/da issues. Remember to kill the AP as the little motors under the floor will not appreciate HYD out flight.

cheers.

[fox4]

In addition to the good tips above. Try to get yourself on Eurocopter's Tech Pubs (TIPI) for aircraft specific publications from the manufacturer.

https://www.eurocopter.com/techpub/

Safe travels and enjoy the new gig...