Boo Hoo

[PLSBGENTLE]

(Apologies to those of you who are actually decent blokes) A scalers are with us in body, but they are living in the past. How many years have you been on your fantasy scale and your still want more for yourselfs. Are you not part of the reason why conditions are the way they are today??? Oh, work to rule to protect my fantastical COS and risk the rest of your career thanks, and then I'll fail your PC because I forgot to pay my electricity bill, because thats acceptable apparently. (Oh and I'll screw your wife and threaten your career while I'm at it, and I'll keep my job cause thats acceptable behaivior too).

Look at the conditions you've been on for the last twenty or so years and look at your young compatriots that are in your shoes today, the ones you treat with disdain and an unprofessional lack of respect. Look at the world economy, reality and what the companies bottom line is: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Do you think the AOA serves you and only you? You are the minority and a dying breed. Try and look after your bretherin for goodness sake, you have earned more cash than most of us will ever dream of. Oh what, you got your command after a few years with the company (thats right, we know you were so **** hot you deserved it and no one else could possibly be so godlike), so you've been on A scale for how long? Hot diggety! How long is it to command today (must be because we are all retarded and not superhuman)?

We have 20 odd years to go, yet you, at the end of your careers want only for yourselfs. hhhhmmff :yuk:

PS I would happily sign to A scale, can some one arrange it for me. Perhaps current A scalers can work to rule as they don't have as much to lose. Thanks guys, I know you really have hearts of gold deep down.

I know I'm steroetyping and bundling A scalers in the same basket as management, but it seems to be a pprune theme: All cadets are this, all direct entry so and so's are that, etc etc... SHAME SHAME SHAME

[HEALY]

so what exactly is your problem with A scalers again???:}

[Sir KDM Lowe]

That's rather a strange inaugural post.

A scaler's are not the problem. You may be jealous of their financial package but aren't we all. But that's not their fault. The company just loves it when we turn on each other. And while we're busy squabbling like kids, they erode our COS. Divide and conquer I think it's called. Please don't do their work for them.

May I suggest we just ignore this post as the inevitable bickering will just further undermine our professional standing. Just a thought.

[routetuner]

What is this person on?
Such a together group aren't we! Company love all this stuff. Keep up the good work boys!

[Cafe City]

Location says it all. :suspect:

[PLSBGENTLE]

CC, you have the smell of a bigot. Tish tish. I can stereotype too, and who said sarcasm was the lowest?

Effect of prune post's to your working conditions = 0

There are a lot of clever posters here, get off the web and do something real if your that enthusiastic. I'll feel better when Fragrant Harbour is a ghost town.

[BNEHKG9]

someone help the new guy find his marbles :}

[PLSBGENTLE]

I'm sorry for the erratic post and for those I have offended. But please, can we cease on the insults.

The rant came about after today's AOA update. The fact that some members are trying to undermine the rest of the membership by threatening to withdraw theirs, because they didn't get what they want is pretty disheartening. The vote results were clear.

This can be a hostile environment at best, so I'll go back into my cave and let the experts take over.

[Yonosoy Marinero]

Is it time to trash A-scalers again?

Damn, you could give some notice. My pitchfork and torch are at the cleaners.

[geh065]

I am just a B scaler, but I got to be honest when I am an old guy near the end of my career, I am not going to retire just to please the C scalers. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have joined. Calling A scalers selfish is ridiculous. Sorry but I am earning a living in this job for ME. Would anyone honestly quit their job to give the junior crew a faster promotion? Not likely.

[The Wraith]

The A scalers joined on the conditions in place at the time, and whilst some have allowed their wealth and "status" to go to their heads....."Oh, chaps, I organised the Reds (Red Arrows) to fly over our village GREEN while we were playing cricket, blah blah blah...", the majority are just blokes like the rest of us.
The same will be said of B Scalers by the C Scalers, etc, in the future....
The fact is that the Company will try to play us off against each other and, unfortunately, many of us are stupid enough to fall for it. PLSBGENTLE is a glowing example.
We will never ALL agree on a given course of action, but we should, nevertheless, be smart enough to stay essentially united and work WITH the AOA to achieve more than we would without them. As for non members, well, that is their right, but then they don't have the right to criticize the results the AOA achieve.
The recent pay raise was below par for the course, but it was ratified by the majority and so we must respect that and move on.
And PLSBGENTLE should probably move on too.....!

[Some How I'm Tired]

PLSBGENTLE

If you read the AOA newsletter in full, you'll notice that A scalers weren't the only group disillusioned by the pay deal.

It also mentions SFO's on bypass pay, SFO's close to command (not yet on bypass pay), and CN1-SCN2 as part of the 25% who voted no. ALL of this group are B scalers (me included - I voted no for those reasons).

It therefore behoves you to start abusing this group as well. Why just single out the A scalers? It makes no sense.

When you are a crusty old B scaler, will you put up with junior crew (on C, D or E scales) publicly abusing you for the CoS that you joined on? It's just not right, and it's not fair.

Thanks for doing the company's job of divide and conquer for them. Keep up the bad work.

[Steve the Pirate]

Sir KDM was spot on when he said we should ignore this thread, although by responding I don't suppose I'm taking my own advice am I? That aside, this is clearly a wind up; no-one mangles English as bad as what this person has tried to do and yet use words such as "bigot" and leave a hanging suggestion that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

This buffoon is manufactured and should be consigned to the place what he belongs into. In the immortal words of Roy Scheider in that classic of all classics, Jaws, "We're gonna need a bigger boat".

STP

[Black Cloud]

I live for the day that everyone collectively realizes that we are worth and deserve original A scale salary and conditions. I have friends half as smart who are earning twice what we (I am B scale) earn for a fraction of the responsibility, minimal peer review, none of the medical checks, minimal refresher training and checking and all of the lifestyle we have forsaken to live in this expensive, smog ridden place. Wake up, don't envy A scales, aim for them!!!

[jetset]

Factor them for inflation etc. first. :=

[hongkongfooey]

A scaler's are not the problem. You may be jealous of their financial package but aren't we all. But that's not their fault

Wether or not I agree with PLSBgentles rant, would you mind telling us who was responsible for B scale ? Are you suggesting it was the fault of those who had'nt yet joined the company ? maybe those who were not yet born ?

Let me tell you roughly how it went :

Company " we can't afford to pay this much anymore, if we are to continue growing we need to reign in the wage costs, we are afraid this means bringing in a lower pay scale, but don't worry, it will not affect you "

Pilots " did I hear you say it wont affect me ? Ok, thats fine "

[lost&found]

who was responsible for B scale

Possibly those that came before you, that signed on to the package!

Just like what is happening now, people are despreate to work for CX that they are willing to accept the lower pay! this in turn gives the company much more bargaining power over the rest of the company, and any new joiners!

If you want A Scale packages you have to stop accepting the rubbish they are offering now, and fighting for what you deserve!

[boxjockey]

Lost&found,

While I am all for fighting, it simply comes down to supply and demand. When there is much more demand than supply, then wages will go up. I wish this wasn't the case, but it's all about the Benjamins!!!!

box

[Captain Dart]

PLSBGENTLE, YOU took the decision to join on an inferior scale to A.

Do I see YOU going on strike or taking action to stop C-scales, Freighter, I-cadets etc., those joining in turn on conditions inferior to your own?

Do I see YOU stopping B-Scale captains putting their hands up for voluntary training and management positions?

I certainly do see you crying in your beer as per the thread title. A-scale is far from 'fantasy', the numbers in the bank account are very, very, real. Suck it up.

Your attempt to emotionally blackmail officers on better conditions than yourself is a failure.

[Basil]

I understood that it was customary for those on the higher scale to abuse those on the lower scale for ruining the Ts&Cs. Have things changed? :rolleyes:

[Capt Toss Parker]

I've been abusing B-Scalers for as long as I can remember .... but when 55 ticked over and I looked in the bank and saw divorce bills and few moths, I decided to take COS 08 and join the B-Scalers that I had been slagging off for all those years.

Back in the day I'd put the B-Scalers in their place and tell them that in order to build a successful airline, Cathay used the A-Scale pay to attract highly skilled sky dorks like myself.

Without A-Scale and military expertise the airline never would have succeeded to what it is today ....

Now I use the excuse that "CX needs experienced trainers" so their expansion can go ahead as planned .... so I'm kind of giving back to aviation by offering my skills as a sky god :ok:

[Sir KDM Lowe]

"......nurse, nurse....Captain Parker is out of his bed again"!!!

Very funny though. :ok:

[suntorytimo]

I live for the day that everyone collectively realizes that we are worth and deserve original A scale salary and conditions. I have friends half as smart who are earning twice what we (I am B scale) earn for a fraction of the responsibility, minimal peer review, none of the medical checks, minimal refresher training and checking and all of the lifestyle we have forsaken to live in this expensive, smog ridden place. Wake up, don't envy A scales, aim for them!!!

Mind telling us who they work for?

[crwjerk]

75% of us obviously don't want to aim for A scale salaries.

[Capt Toss Parker]

If you ever get abducted and held captive in my dungeon .... It's an A-scaled themed establishment!

[Black Cloud]

Both are former SA GP's that qualified as surgeons in Canada and were offered jobs in Queensland Health (Australia) then went on to run their own surgeries. They are both less than 45, have average educational qualifications and very minimal peer reviews. He earns $1.5M (AUD) and she $1M (AUD). We as pilots have sold ourselves down the chute by not being united and demanding better recognition for who we are and what we have achieved. We are worth much more money and deserve an enormous amount more respect from these people.

[Captain Dart]

I'll suck up B-Scales after 55 just to spite jealous individuals like yourself, Johnny, and I won't be starting threads called 'Boo Hoo' about it. B-Scales will still keep me in beer and petrol don'tcha know! Got to run those 'toys' bought with the 'fantasy scale'. Retirement might even be 'age 70' in a few years, or theoretically 'no limit' if we can find the right lawyer.

Toodle pip; speaking of 'sucking up', I'm off to meet Captain Toss in the gay bar!

[Steve the Pirate]

Johnny I love the irony in your post although I'm sure it's unintentional. Your nom de guerre is that of a fictitious actor who, to all intents and purposes is a has been, someone that only those in his immediate "entourage" know - someone who would be the subject of your similarly fictitious NTC.

The fact is that, by and large, only those in a person's immediate circle of friends, colleagues or acquaintances actually care about any individual, famous or otherwise. We're all predominantly only really known to those in our immediate peer group whether in CX or the local pub. So to say that no-one will care when we read an NTC regarding the passage of a long-time employee is simply a statement of fact - some might feel sad for a moment but it won't stop them laughing in the Gay Bar later that evening and getting on with their lives.

By the way, I'm not being mean as we all know what Johnny's definition of being mean is..

[Basil]

Aahh, The Gay Bar; 555 wine and Carlsberg. Can't quite recollect the name of the barman (the tall guy) who gave it the name "All men in here - must be gay bar!"
He was also present, as was I, when it could have become The Peanuts Bar; the night that nice Mr Turnbull used some very rude words. :E

[raven11]

Johnny…

What a disgusting post little man! Thanks for demonstrating the low demographic recently hired by Cathay. No wonder Cathay is comfortable offering C and D scales (with no housing allowance) if it’s people like you answering the call. .. . I wonder what flying club they plucked you from?

Well, everyone knows what you get when you pay peanuts?

Suck that up…….

[411A]

Retirement might even be 'age 70' in a few years, or theoretically 'no limit' if we can find the right lawyer.


It already is in a few situations/districts.
The younger FD crew...read it and do without.
We don't care...!:E

[badairsucker]

Well, everyone knows what you get when you pay peanuts?


I guess if you extend Raven, you will be on the same pay scale as Johnny.....


Better start sucking up those peanuts.

[raven11]

Bad Air.....you'll have to try harder than that!

In any case, you miss the point: You and Johnny will be languishing on C scale, or D scale, F/O peanuts...I won't be.

Living in a glass house Johnny shouldn't be throwing stones.....

[badairsucker]

Raven, not sure what I need to harder on.

Are you going to extend??? If so, B scale pay for you. The same for me and I guess Johnny. I'll bring the peanuts.

If not, I guess you will retire a happy A scaler, well done, but please don't give me the attitude "My dad's got more money than your dad attitude" You won't win that one mate.....A scale money was probably quite a lot 20 years ago, but not now, I have many friends in their thirties who earn 600K to a million a month in HK, makes the A scale money seem like chicken feed let alone the B scale so I doesn't impress me when some of our A scale colleges like to belittle the B scale on these forums as if they are the highest paid individuals going, nor does the stories on the flight deck of all their "TOYS" and how big their house is. I stared on B scale, I am happy as that was what was on offer when I started, but I won't be giving it all billy big bollox to the C or D scale guys down the line about all my "TOYS etc"

As for languishing on C or D scale, dream on mate. If it ever get's to that I will be off. I am happy in my job right now but if things get that bad then I am out of here. I don't need to rely on CX for a career, too many other options for me.:ok::ok::ok:

I welcome any mature response Raven.:ok:

[raven11]

Bad Air...wind your head in! I could care less whether I impress you or not.

In no way was I trying to respond with "my daddy's got more money than yours". Geez, give me a break! I was responding to a post (since removed, I might point out) by an individual, a colleague of mine, who heaped ridicule and scorn on A scale pilots for being, well...A scale pilots! How no one will care when notified of our passing on.

I take it you missed Johnny's post, so spare me your additional scorn.

[badairsucker]

Raven,

I could care less whether I impress you or not.

Wow, you have a very high opinion of yourself.
I guess you mean "couldn't care less"...and NO you don't impress me, far from it pal.


In any case, you miss the point: You and Johnny will be languishing on C scale, or D scale, F/O peanuts...I won't be.
And you missed the point to my post. You still haven't answered my question...Are you going to extend? If so, you will be the only one of us who is languishing on a lower pay scale not me.:ugh:

[Steve the Pirate]

All of this thanks to a post by someone never heard of before and, in all likelihood, never to be heard of again. All grist to the mill for those who strive to drive a wedge between people supposedly on the same side.

[raven11]

Bad Air..

OK, so let me see if I've got you straight: first you correct me and then, in the same breath, accuse me of having a high opinion of myself. Hmmmm...I may suffer from bad grammar, but you're a hypocrite.

And yes, when the time comes, I do plan on extending (thank you very much)....and yes it will be on B scale, and yes it will still be on more than you or Johnny Drama earn.

Like Capt. Dart, I too think I'll stay until I'm 70. If for no other reason than to know it will make jealous people like you squirm.

Oh wait, I forgot, you won't be here. You said you have other options....

[Capt Toss Parker]

No JizzMonkey ....

I AM THE MORON! ..... an internet celebrity MORON!

[badairsucker]

raven, raven, raven.....oh dear.

Raven you wrote,
but you're a hypocrite.
and then you write a belittling: You and Johnny will be languishing on C scale, or D scale, F/O peanuts...I won't be.
then in the next breath writes: And yes, when the time comes, I do plan on extending (thank you very much)....and yes it will be on B scale a lower pay scale then your current one....Some what makes you the hypocrite.



Then we get:
In no way was I trying to respond with "my daddy's got more money than yours". Geez, give me a break! and then you write:and yes it will still be on more than you or Johnny Drama earn.
I looked up Hypocrite in the dictionary and it said RAVEN 11.



Like Capt. Dart, I too think I'll stay until I'm 70. If for no other reason than to know it will make jealous people like you squirm. Squirm, I don't think so. I don't have a problem with anyone extending, I just don't like the attitude of of someone telling us we are going to be languishing on a lesser pay scale by someone who goes and does that very thing i.e YOU. If I was told that if I had to continue working for CX on a C scale for doing the same job, I wouldn't, but hey that MY opinion. Maybe I have a little more self respect than you Raven.

[raven11]

Bad Air....

Oh my....did I touch a nerve?

While reading your above tantrum your Post 34 came to mind. Allow me to quote your words back to you: "I welcome any mature response".

Hmmm....like I said, you're a hypocrite.

Now try to keep your response mature, and be cogent this time.

[Captain Dart]

Ah yes, Basil, the 'Gay Bar'! It hasn't changed; you may recall the sterile decor, the odd checker or sim instructor holding court after a detail, and hairy pilots from various corners of the globe drinking Carlsberg and Stella in dark corners. Most pilots are now too knackered from brutal rostering and frequent 'back of the clock' flights to consider a beer after work at all; and those that do are usually crying in their beer (as per the title of this thread).

The Irish pub in the terminal (a drinking trap if there ever was one thanks, KA boys!) and the Aviator Bar with its Oasis employment 'help desk' are long gone. No real alternate now except a can or two from 'Pay 'n' Weep'.

I do miss the old Kai Tak Cathay Club though; it was usually rowdy and sometimes even cabin crew dropped in after a 'regional' :ooh:; then there was also the Police Mess over the road...

[badairsucker]

Geezzz Raven,

You think that me quoting your past posts is a TANTRUM, boy, are you sensitive.:ugh::ugh:

After what you have posted here, you are in no position to call someone a hypocrite. Now run along and get some self respect.

[spleener]

Maybe I'm getting senile and need to retire and make way for the real pilots:cool: - but it looks to me like I get a pay rise from A scale up to B! ;)

[raven11]

Bad Air...

You don't give up do you? You're like a yappy puppy that can’t stop nipping at my ankle!

Your arguments, summed up as "I know you are but what am I?" are boring and repetitive.

I'm not the one in search of self-respect (you previously accused me of having a lofty opinion of myself, remember)....I'd love to sit down and compare log books with you some time. As fun as that would be, I don't think it would help your inferiority complex.

This spat began when I responded to a disgusting post that wished me and my mates dead....I can only assume that you missed this post before it was deleted, otherwise only adolescent bad manners would compel you to continue to spar.

If you would like to offer a mature comment on the propriety of wishing ones colleagues dead, please do. Otherwise, I grow weary…..

[mtcaust]

the fact you people are in charge of peoples safety is beyond scary. the only difference between this argument and that of my children's arguments is the use of vocabulary.

[Basil]

CD,
The Cathay Club had lots of P45 opportunities: when I arrived I had a few and started joking inappropriately with a manager of previous acquaintance and the more senior guy accompanying him - did wonder for a few days if there might be consequences.
Then there was the time the old barman tried to lock someone in for perceived misbehaviour but our hero, having none of it, kicked the door open.
. . and the incident of the propeller in the flying club :):) Happy days! :rolleyes:

p.s. I thought this was just a journal of 'full and frank discussions between colleagues over cocktails' (RIP TCP)