Flying KLM Business Class

[Mr Mac]

Myself and Mrs Mac have 2nr contracts which requires travel to Mombassa and Vancouver from home in Yorkshire on a 6 weekly basis for the next 18 months. We both used to use BA Business Class but gave up a number of years ago and moved to EK,SQ,LH out of Man like many Northern based frequent flyers to avoid London and BA. I have recently used BA twice on the route down to Mombassa (EK timings not good, and LH do not serve Nairobi apart from Cargo) using BA and Kenyan, and found T5 and the service and age of plane very poor. Kenyan ok for the short hop to Mombassa but have found in flight ent average on longer flights. Therefore was wondering about KLM (have not flown with them since late 1980,s when I used to go to Minneapolis quite a bit) and wondered what there service was like. LH to Vancouver is the other option. Any helpful comments ?.

[jackieofalltrades]

Depends who is paying for the tickets. KLM Business class is ok, but currently not worth the extra they charge for it. If work is paying rather than your own pocket, then I would recommend taking the KLM route for the convenience of flying from Manchester. Have done it myself many time, much better than hauling yourself down to London.

KLM are also in the process over the next year or so of upgrading the business class seats to lie-flat beds. So for the duration of your contract, certainly the latter parts of it, you're likely to find KLM Business class more than adequate.
The in-flight entertainment is good, the food is good, and at the end of each long-haul flight they give you one of their collectible miniature houses which contains some liqueur too.

[MathFox]

I have flown business with KLM a few times and found it comparable to the transatlantic business class from US carriers. Decent food, good chairs (preferred to sleep seated over the feeling of sliding off the "angled lie flat bed") adequate service. Amsterdam is a convenient place for connections UK intercontinental flights.

[pwalhx]

Haven't flown with them in Business Class for couple of years so things may have changed. However I stopped using them because I found the overall experience pretty poor. They were always competitively priced which was the attraction. However I now find them less competetive and there are better airlines out there at better prices. However like everything it is subjective and a purely personal opinion.

[HXdave]

If you are from Yorkshire, and are thinking of using the KLM route, have you noth thought about the connections from Leeds Bradford?

I guess it could depend on exactly where in Yorkshire you are though.

HXDave

[pwalhx]

I agree HX Dave, living in Halifax myself I would be looking at flights from Manchester rather than Leeds/Bradford.

[HXdave]

pwalhx,

Halifax is a funny place to consider which airport to fly from between Manchester & Leeds Bradford.

From my house, I can do Manchester in 43 miles, and in roughly 45 minutes (Traffic dependant).

However Leeds Bradford is a mere 19 miles away, however still takes 45 mins (traffic dependant).

Naturally, at certain times of the day it takes longer to get to both airports, and at other times of the day it takes much less (I will not say how much less for fear of incriminating myself............. lol)

[L'aviateur]

I used to use KLM regularly when I lived near Humberside, because it was very convienent. When flying from Humberside the checkin is quick and never any security queues, and even if your late, the plane is within spitting distance of hte checkin desk so they'll let you board. You can leave your handbaggage at the bottom of the stairs boarding the cityhopper and collect at the bottom of the stairs on arrival, and the transfer is always dead easy in schiphol. I particularly like doing security at the gate with priority for business class, rather then being in a massive queue for all incoming passengers going through security like LHR T5.

However the business class product is dissapointing because of two points for me. One it's almost impossible to get a shower in the schiphol lounge because too few showers and too many people (crap lounge in general to be honest), and the seats are angled lie flat which i can't sleep on (which apparently are being changed to lie flat according to above post). This is the only reason I dislike the business class.

when I fly long haul, i try as far as possible to fly only with airlines who offer full lie flat seats so that I can sleep. I don't care about anything else that goes with it, except maybe access to a shower in the lounge. I don't eat hte meals, I don't drink the drinks.

That being said, since its not a particularly long flight to Mombasa, if its a daytime flight and the KLM flights from a regional airport are more convenient, then that would be the sensible option.

[Mariner9]

I second L'aviateur's post above. I'm a KLM gold card holder (mostly earned through flights on AF to various oil related African destinations), but not particularly impressed with KLM longhaul.

However I can recommend Virgin for NBO.

One thing to bear in mind is the arrival time at Nairobi.

KLM, BA, and Emirates all arrive at a similar time in the evening. If you are unlucky enough to be 3rd of those 3 to land, then you face a wait of up to 2 hours to get through immigration, even if you have a visa (as I have found out to my cost on several occasions :rolleyes:)

Virgin do an overnight flight from London that arrives in the morning - Upper Class pax get through immigration in no time as there are no queues at that time.

OK you have to get to London, but why not fly Manchester-LHR, no tougher than a Manchester-Schipol flight IMHO.

[strake]

No "Western" Business Class available today is "like it used to be".

After four or five years flying VS and BA, I now find myself flying KLM long-haul to North America, Asia and South Africa. Last trip was on an MD-11 to Toronto in 1J. Nobody seated next to me and the service was really, very good. No flat bed but the food and crew attitude was excellent as was the in seat entertainment. After years of VS, it's also nice to be able to look out the window properly.
I'm impressed with them (especially the little gift house at the end of each flight) and find it's worth the hassle of transferring through Schiphol...so far :)
I think the Crown Lounge is fine...not up to BA but acceptable.

[tezzer]

As a fellow Yorkie, East that is, I use Humberside as my departure point of choice around 40 trips a year.
The airport is 20 minutes from Home, quick and easy to get through, both inbound and outbound, and KLM tend to fly every where I want to go, and if they don't, an additional leg to CDG sorts that.

HOWEVER, for a proper business class product, I use EK out of manchester (as long as I'm not heading West). They send a car to pick me up, take me to the terminal, the airline looks after me properly, and the lounges are far far better than Servisair's efforts. As a Skywards gold member, I get upgraded from business to first more often than not, where KLM only get as far as WBC, and their slide down chairs are some of the worst I have ever tried to sleep in (this week to BKK being a case in point).

Horses for courses,KLM offers a reasonable product, at a fair price, but other airlines have the edge on service, in my humble opinion.

[Bushfiva]

I think the quality of the KLM in-flight experience is having a bit of a downturn at the moment. It tends to fluctuate.

The flat but not horizontal seats are pretty bad: firstly one tends to slide down them, secondly the foot rest doesn't extend far enough, nor is it deep enough. It's very difficult to get comfortable and then remain comfortable. If the seating's bad, one tends to be overly sensitive to other problems, real or imaginary.

The entertainment systems seem to be problematical. Departing via LBA the lounge is, well, adequate but Schiphol's lounge is overcrowded and has a poor selection of nibbles. The cleaning staff there are great, though.

I tend to get reasonable pricing on my particular route, but I'm just hanging in there for the last two Delft houses and a few more miles. The airmiles, incidentally, are virtually unredeemable in any normal sense of the word so they'll build up quite rapidly.

In Business the service is quiet and understated. In economy, which isn't an issue for you, slices of the cabin get pretty bad service with respect to food and beverage choice (and, indeed, availability).

[Mr Mac]

Thanks for all the feed back on the variouse issues raised and I will reply as follows. As we live in West Yorkshire "just" (1100ft up in the Pennines) we use Manchester as a preferance to LBA as it is only 45min drive. Also the airlines we use (LH,SQ,EK) have frequant services from Manchester and in EK,s case a very nice new lounge. We are lucky in that our respective companies pay for Business Class for any flights over 5hrs and we are both therefore Gold card holders with these airlines. However the comments which have been posted re KLM Business Class seem a little varied and as a result Mrs M is staying with LH (also keeps the points / miles clocking up). I am going to try the KLM service to Kenya (I know Virgin have a reasonable service but LHR is just too much trouble with Terminal changes). I wish EK would do a Mombassa service from DBX (may suggest it on next weeks flight) which would sort out all my issues, and would (given Kenyan coast tourist industry) keep an A330 full I would have thought on an every other day service. However until that happens will try KLM, although I have found an Air Rwanda flight which goes DBX - Mombassa so may try that once to see how it goes. Anyway once again thanks for all your comments.

[BRUpax]

"Varied" just about sums up KLM. I'm a fairly frequent user of their C Class. I can't say that I have ever had reason to complain, but on the other hand, nor are they anything to write home about. It's a fairly average but acceptable product. CC are generally pleasant, with the odd exception now and then - but I find that's the case with most carriers. Their ground staff in AMS can be quite "varied" too.

Anyway, let us know your opinion after you've flown with them.

[L'aviateur]

Also Swiss Air is an option, one stop in Zurich. A slightly superior business class product.

[Mr Mac]

Well tried KLM Business on the Liverpool - Nairobi - Mombassa route and found service to be "a little varied" and plane,s quite old (Fokker KLM Liv - Ams)(747 - 400 KLM Ams - Nairobi) and (737 - 300 Kenyan Airlines - ex KLM plane I think Nairobi - Mombassa). However staff were kind and appeared on top of the job on all sectors. However equipment does not compare with the service received on SQ or EK (who I normaly fly with), as the plane and ICE systems are so much more up to date along with more comfortable seats. However as I can not use them on this route (yet) I will pobably stay with KLM as they are also doing cheap Business Class fares (relative term) from Liverpool of all places to long hall destinations world wide. My wife reports that KLM operate MD11 on Vancouver route (thats the plane she watched land there anyway) as she waited for LH flight which could be older than my 747-400. However she did find out that this route is due to have new, or refurbished plane, with flat beds, so she may try it in the near future. Does anyone know if this is going to be the case ?.

[Planemike]

Its Mombasa, by the way........

[jackieofalltrades]

KLM do tend to use the MD11 on the Vancouver, although occasionally do put the A332 on this route. According to their website and in-flight magazine KLM says they are in the process of upgrading the Business Class seats. However, it took them a lot longer than they said to upgrade the Economy seats in the B744, so may take some time yet before changes are noticed in Business Class too.

[Mr Mac]

Planemike , you are of course corrrect I will blame it on jet lag and poor typing.

Cheers

[Planemike]

Hey Mr Mac..........

I can certainly be guilty of one of those (typos) but the other (jet lag) not so often, sadly!!

Just jealous I won't be going there, I lived in Nairobi and visted "the coast" during the 1950s!!!

Planemike

[Mr Mac]

It is a part of the world I have got to know very well since the late 1990,s and I guess I have been bitten by that "Africa" bug which seems to attack some people, and I am not talking about Malaria !. I think you would find many changes there since the 1950,s but the port is still a fine harbour, and the old town and railway are still there, but evreywhere choked with traffic and the curse of the third and first world - plastic rubbish.

As for Jet lag I find it an occupational hazard, but one I am pleased to live with, as I have been lucky enough to fly since the early 1960,s and seen much of this fantastic planet and people. I still go for the window seat and still marvel at the sun rise and sun set and the beauty of the blue horizon. When I get bored of seeing that, and the technology of flight, then its time I was put in a box !.