These Psychometric Tests

[confusedcanuck]

Quick question, do you really think it is possible to "study" for psychometric testing. If so does't that negate the ability to actually deduce those with superior intelligence, or whatever it is they are looking for, from those lacking.
I mean if its something you can study for how do you know you are getting someone who is going to be good for you in the long run and not just someone who has studied his/her backside off for the day?

Can you really study or just sharpen your skills with these tests?

[doubleu-anker]

Very true indeed.

I know of individuals that never should have been near an aircraft and exhibit every personality defect known to man, who ace these tests.

[confusedcanuck]

Thanks for the reply.

And added to the usefulness of these pilot screening programs is the technical interview of which I can get tons of info before hand from this very website. And tailored specifically for the airline I'm going for an interview with. I only have to start a thread titled "going for Airline x interview what should I know" I'll have a massive head start on the guys that don't have this info. Inside info, tips and the lot.

Perhaps the best place to go before an interview is pprune.com, I wonder how many people have managed to get a job simply because of this website.

But at the end of the day if airlines are missing out on the good pilots its their own loss, in one way or the other. Either they're going to have a mishap(s) due to pilot error, god forbid, or it will in the end hit the bottom line, I don't think an airline full of bad pilots will do as well as an airline full of good ones.

[Piltdown Man]

Psychometric Tests were sold to airlines by the modern day equivalent of snake oil salesmen. They convinced (conned?) the plebs in Human Remains that only if they used these tests would they be able to filter out the weirdos, psychotics, schitzos, bi-polar suffers et al from joining their airline. The problem is that most pilots are pretty weird people. What sane person would gamble their house and family on a job? Who could realistically build a business case to enter a saturated market? Yet the idiots in HR pay for each test they issue, religiously mark the ****e that is returned and still employ bloody muppets! You can practice for them, but there is no need. If you are weird enough, you pass.

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[FerrypilotDK]

Which is better, red or green?
:ugh:

[Mikehotel152]

I cannot disagree with Smooth Airperator and Piltdown Man.

I did the CTC ones a couple of years ago and was one of the 3 out of 15 who 'passed'. Failures included people who had passed the BA equivalent and were in their holding pool, together with others who boasted about having practised the tests in advance.

I found it pretty good fun to be honest, albeit stresful. And I'm an old boy! It certainly gets your heartrate up! A bit like total deathmatch in Black Ops. :p

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

They have some value.

There is a strong link between verbal reasoning ability and success in some flying training courses. It may not seem a logical link but in Psychology its often the case that you measure one thing, find its linked to another thing but have no idea how, why or what the link is. You use large samples and clever maths to prove the link. You then make up a theory about the link.

Often you can ignore the theory but the statistically significant link is actually quite robust.

An oft used example about eldest-son syndrome on the Apollo missions to the moon. 22 out of 29 were first-born sons. Six of them in the only-child category. Five others had older sisters but were eldest sons. Only two, Stuart Roosa and Mike Collins, had older brothers.

In the case of Collins there is a qualification: he hardly knew his brother, who was 13 years older, and Major General and Mrs. Collins gave Mike the only-son treatment the second time around.



Cause - several theories. Link - for sure.


Personally, as someone with a degree in this field, I think the links are disappearing because airliners are getting easier to fly.

The skills required to Captain an airliner in 1980 are very very different to those required just 30 years later.

I don't think the tests have quite caught up. Though when they do they'll probably looking to find people who cope well with boredom, are scared of authority and moderately into the introverted spectrum.

About as far away from Chuck Yeager as you could possibly get and a long way from Capt Sullenberger as well.

Sad. But true.


WWW

[Capetonian]

I have a friend with a similar industry background to me, similar age, and I reckon he's more intelligent than I am (I always was modest), he's certainly more incisive and perceptive than I am.

He applied for a job (marketing manager) for which the first step was a psychometric test. As it involved half a day's travel he asked me to go with him for company. I rang ahead and said I was also interested in the position and could I do the test.

He wanted the job and answered the questions to the best of his ability, I didn't want the job and gave silly answers.

Guess what? I was invited to an interview, he was rejected.

[Smell the Coffee]

Confusedcanuck, if its any consolation, I recently passed the OAA and CX CPP tests - I don't play computer games of any description and I don't own MS FS.

I've never paid to practise any such tests ... the only thing I have done to prepare in the past was to purchase a Menthal Arithmetic exercise book ... despite hating Maths at school I've managed to improve quite a bit ... certainly enough to calculate speed/distance/time questions in the CX interview without resorting to the whiteboard ...

[Adios]

It seems to me that the sort of people who can trawl the Internet, find the information on tests, study for them and pass them are exactly the sort that will do well on an integrated course. When they start training, they'll be handed 20 kilos of books and a stack of CDs. Even though a great deal of the material will then be spoon fed to them in class, they will nonetheless have to absorb most of it on their own in slow time over many nights and weekends. They will go through question banks for hours on end, hopefully learning some of the material, as well as the answers, and then they'll be tested. Once they finish flight training and get a job. Their TRTO will hand them another stack of books and a bigger stack of CDs and take away the spoon. I therefore propose that the sort of lad or lady who can improve his or her performance on aptitude tests by researching and practicing for them of their own initiative is demonstrating the precise abilities needed to succeed in training.

I'm sure there are plenty who can't be bothered to do the research or the preparation that fall by the wayside and there are probably quite a few who have a better than average education or they are just naturally gifted and ace the tests with little preparation.

You can criticise the tests and those who require them all you want, but they are here to stay. You can't get into the RAF without passing theirs. You can't get into BA without passing theirs. Plenty of people on this forum advise wannabees to take them at GAPAN. Even NASA uses them and the Mercury, Gemina, Apollo and Shuttle astronauts were put through endless batteries of tests, some quite ridiculous. I suspect the criticism here has more to do with a Ppruners attitude towards a particular FTO or three than it has to do with objective reality.

All aptitude tests can produce false positives and false negatives. False negatives mean the school rejects a potential paying customer who would have passed the course. False positives mean they waste time trying to train someone who ultimately won't make it or will limp across the finish line with a third series IR and struggle to get work or fail to impress a hiring airline with the quality of the school's output. Both scenarios are harmful, so the school has an incentive to choose their process carefully and to improve it if they can.

For the wannabe who takes the decision to go integrated, if you haven't prepared and fail the tests, revise and try again. If you fail them repeatedly at more than one school or even GAPAN, then perhaps this could be a glimpse of your future training record if you proceed.

[scarrymike]

Here is a true story from one of many flight instructors/ check pilots I have had. I'll call him Mort. Mort taught me instrument skills and signed me off for my IFR ticket which I passed. Mort was a US Air Force Pilot (transports like the 141). He flew large corporate aircraft after his retirement from the airforce. I don't think he was impressed with my skills as a pilot. I asked him if he thought I had the talent to be a commerical pilot. Mort said I could better than many pilots he had flown with over the years because I was cautious and never exceeded my ability. Then he said, I was about average on "talent". He said the most talented pilot he ever met was a son of an airline pilot. The kid was 16 and had no real interest in flying, yet his dad insisted he take lessons. The kid rarely showed any interest in school or sports so Mort claimed. The dad and the kid claimed no prior flight training for the kid before Mort started on him. Mort claimed he could have soled the kid at 5 hours just on flying skills but the kid could not be coached to use a checklist or do a preflight because he had no real interest. At 15 hours the kid was flying in real IFR down to minimums with real crosswinds, (with Mort in the right seat). At 25 hours the kid could do all the commerical level manuvers. This, Mort claimed, was real talent. Would the kid make a good pilot? No because he had no interest claimed Mort. The last Mort heard the kid failed the Private Pilot test.

These tests don't test, "talent."

[confusedcanuck]

At this stage I'm preparing for an airline entrance test by spending more time studying aviation than preparing for the psych test. I'm no expert but I feel that if one impresses during face to face time with the airline then there's a better chance of getting in than doing outstandingly well in the psychometric tests.

Are these tests used more just to weed out those with serious deficiencies which may not be spotted in an interview and sim ride? At the end of the day will someone with slightly better aptitude test score but a worse interview and sim ride be chosen ahead ahead of someone who scores lower in the psych test but impresses in the interview and sim? Does anyone know how airlines weight the sections?

There is a strong link between verbal reasoning ability and success in some flying training courses

In that case I'll make sure to get my old LSAT book out and run through some questions. I was happy when I finally decided to go to flight school and not law school who knew I would be back practicing from that book, I thought I had given that stuff up.

Lots of opinion on the subject, all really valuable, I guess I'll just keep studying and hope for the best. Thanks

[Piltdown Man]

There is a strong link between verbal reasoning ability and success in some flying training courses

It's called "Doing as you're bloody told!"

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