Tornado down

[anjs]

BBC reporting Tornado down off Gairloch

[Felix Saddler]

BBC News - Tornado jet crew eject before aircraft crashes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-12301802)

Hope the crew are safe and well.

FS.

[Aerouk]

Hope both Pilot and Nav are safe and make a good recovery.

[Fly380]

Sky News reporting they have been picked up by helicopter and on way to hospital.

[NutLoose]

Tornado crews usually train in pairs.


Interesting, never imagined the back seater would go off on their own. :ugh:

Glad they are ok.

[FrustratedFormerFlie]

Nice to see the under threat Lossie Tornados being supported by the under threat Coastguard service:ugh:

[Roadster280]

Hope they are OK, just as well they were fairly close to land, otherwise they might have needed SAR top cover.

[green granite]

Tornado crews usually train in pairs.


Perectly good comment Nutloose, it's the CREWS that train in pairs not the individuals. A Tornado crew is 2 people so a pair of crews consists of 4 people and 2 aircraft.

[orgASMic]

Nutloose

Perhaps the other of the pair in question is the second aircraft?

Witnesses said a second Tornado circled the crash scene moments after the jet went down

[bast0n]

Well it is a cheaper way of getting rid of them than BAE and MRA4s..............

[30mRad]

Nice to see the moderated comments ie just wishing the crew well rather than launching straight into judge/jury/executioner as has happened previously.

I'm sure the crew are enjoying the Nurses in Raigmore and God Speed to them and safe recovery.

30 mRad

[fixinflyback]

Glad to hear the crew are both ok. Hope you have a speedy recovery from your experience.

[Pontius Navigator]

Good news and nice timing.

The crash happended during a visit to the station by Armed Forces Minister Nick Harvey.

[Fire 'n' Forget]

Green Granite, Orgasmic :bored::bored:

Its like the bloody spelling police on here, read just don't type pllleeeeaaaassee !

Glad both got out and hope they are doing well.

[Pontius Navigator]

FnF, and very PC too. What was wrong with 2-man crew?

[racedo]

Pontius

I reckon crew could have just said they didn't wish to meet the Minister.

Glad to hear they are ok:ok:, jets can be replaced, people can't.

[waveskimmer]

Glad they are both OK:D

[peppermint_jam]

Speedy recovery to both aircrew.

[sycamore]

Such a pity `the Minister` hadn`t been dropped off in Kinloss...by mistake...!

[arandcee]

I note from the BBC report that a MCA Tug is on it's way to the scene at a time when the tugs are under threat. Presume this means the Tornado is beached on a sand bank then?

[green granite]

Green Granite, Orgasmic

Its like the bloody spelling police on here, read just don't type pllleeeeaaaassee !


Why not? It was in reply to the usual let's knock the ignorant press post.

[Green Flash]

I see the tug (Anglian Prince) is back on the pier but there was a Minesweeper pootling about the Loch Ewe area a few days ago. If it's still in the area it might be able to find the bits?

[Bolli]

I just noticed this comment had been inserted into the BBC article on the crash:


He said the crew told him that they were forced to ditch after the plane caught fire at 6,000 feet.


If its a fire, are we looking at fatigue problems in equipment? If so what impact will this have on the threatened aircraft?

[Harley Quinn]

Good to know the crew can talk, but lets keep the speculation down for a few days? There may be lots of implications here, let the investigators investigate..

[waveskimmer]

Now there's a thought to gladen the heart

[just another jocky]

How do you get fatigue problems from a report of a fire? FFS, please don't speculate, you'll only set the idiots off and running. There's no corroboration and speculation is pointless. Th BoI will already have been convened, we should await their findings. :ugh:

[STANDTO]

strong rumour going around that it was an a/c on test in the maritime recce role. Pie oven retrofitted from the MRA4 overheated and caught fire. Rest is history.

[Jimlad1]

"
I note from the BBC report that a MCA Tug is on it's way to the scene at a time when the tugs are under threat. Presume this means the Tornado is beached on a sand bank then?"

Bloody hell guys, I know the RAF is jealous of the RN, but just because the RN puts something on the sandbanks, doesnt means that you have to copy them:E

Delighted to hear both crew are well.

[Squirrel 41]

Glad to hear both are ok.

Is it still true that a certain tie entitles you to beers at M-B expense? If so, enjoy!

S41

[Alber Ratman]

Fire = Fuel + Heat + Oxygen... Last one is easy, other two need some investigation.:E

[Navaleye]

Very pleased to hear that the crew are OK. If the aircraft is still intact (unlikely) I'm curious went wrong.

[matkat]

There is some really pointless posts on here lets just hear what the crew say please!

[EW73]

I completely agree...

"Glad to hear they are okhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif, jets can be replaced, people can't."

But..is that really the case with the RAF these days?

...the bit about the jets, I mean...:\

[Trim Stab]

For all those who want to speculate - please go ahead if you have any ideas of what may have happened.

It doesn't do any harm at all to speculate on an internet rumour board as to what may have gone wrong. For the "ooooh mustn't speculate" brigade - stop being so pompous - it is only PPRUNE not the AAIB or a BoI.

[4015]

Glad they are relatively unharmed and a speedy recovery to them both

[just another jocky]

For all those who want to speculate - please go ahead if you have any ideas of what may have happened.

It doesn't do any harm at all to speculate on an internet rumour board as to what may have gone wrong. For the "ooooh mustn't speculate" brigade - stop being so pompous - it is only PPRuNe not the AAIB or a BoI.

It was a mid-air with a late-running Father Christmas. :}

Trouble is, there are enough idiots around who will read an uninformed speculative post on here regarding something that is rightly confidential and take it as gospel, repeating it endlessly and gathering credence due to volume as it goes.

Anyway, the initial signal is out with some of the facts for those who have access to it. Most important is that the crew got out and no-one else was hurt. :ok:

[E-Spy]

@JAJ
Any chance you could PM me any details you have from the signal: I'm in Germany and have no access to the Brit system whilst flying the deutsche flavour of Tonka.
TVM
Spy

[Army Mover]

I'd just like to add my comments that I hope the crew are OK and are back with their colleagues, friends and families as soon as possible.

It kind of puts my bad days in the office into some kind of perspective. :uhoh:

[SRENNAPS]

Glad the crew got out safely. Always a satisfying feeling for the bomb’eads who fitted the seats.:D:D

As it appears to have been a fire, a few of us here could speculate on several theories based on history, but will keep my thoughts to myself for now.

Does anybody know which Sqn they were from?

[Pontius Navigator]

jets can be replaced, . . . But..is that really the case with the RAF these days?\

Yes, given the rumoured plans to reduce the number of GR4s.

However sod's law will apply.

If there are X knackered jets earmarked for early retirement, any jet that crashes will be from the less knackered pool.

[ORAC]

Just a pity they lost the No1 and No5 uniforms, Breitling watches and other personal items aicrew always carry on the aircraft just in case of a diversion.

Still, I'm the insurance company will be sympathetic. :cool:

[NutLoose]

Perfectly good comment Nutloose, it's the CREWS that train in pairs not the individuals. A Tornado crew is 2 people so a pair of crews consists of 4 people and 2 aircraft.

Hands up to that one, misread it, at least they are safe, end of the day, that is all that matters....

[green granite]

at least they are safe, end of the day, that is all that matters..

Indeed it is. :ok:

[PotentialPilot]

Fresh video off BBC for you all,


BBC News - Tornado on video before ditching (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12304912)

[orgASMic]

Too true. I am glad the crew did not have to swim for too long and were promptly in expert hands.

The media seemed to have ignored this story though; there is barely a mention in today's papers. I would have thought, given that MinAF was at Lossie at the time, it would have been a good excuse for a bit of MoD/HMT/HMG-bashing.

[LateArmLive]

I can categorically state that this accident would not have happened if we still had the Nimrod. Or the GR9. Or more Chinooks. In fact, it is all down to Gordon Brown. Or carriers. SDSR is to blame. Fact.

Glad to see you both out in one piece guys - try to ignore the balls being written about you!

[piesupper]

You want to question the choice of music that accompanies that video on the BBC?

1) To my non-technical ear it sounds more like other ambient music (from a car radio, perhaps?) rather than any dubbed-on soundtrack. Try listening to it again, that music is definitely directional.

2) WTF does it matter anyway? A totallly pointless comment. Wag your finger somewhere else.

3) Perhaps you should be questioning the pilots decision to fly so close to the buildings of innocent civilians when he has a sick jet?
I have no idea just where this video was taken from. Was this a possible approach to Stornoway?

The RAF and its glorious allies are responsible for too many smoking holes in the Scottish countryside - so far we have been lucky - no civilian deaths - so far. You still make a mess of our hills and waters far too often. While I am not going down the "narrowly missed the orphanage" route, just cos its sparsely populated doesn't mean its UNpopulated.

4) Want to go and play at fast jets? Do it in the Falklands, at least you are still (sort of) welcome there. The RAF want to shut airbases in Scotland? Don't expect to come up here with your noisy toys and expect to be welcome. And before you give me this spiel about "practising to save lives in Afghanistan", yadda yadda yadda, we were never asked if we wanted to go play at imperialists in Afghanistan (or Iraq). Your pathetic attempts to crawl to the Yanks have made us much more vulnerable, not safer. Ask anyone who was on a bus in London a few years back or tried to go on holiday from Glasgow airport.

PS in spite of the above, I AM genuinely glad the crew got out OK. I hope they appreciate the service they got from the NHS at Raigmore. Maybe they will note how the NHS works a whole lot better in Scotland than down south. Lucky they didn't have to rely on BUPA as the English Tories and LibDems would have us do, eh?

PPS will you be lifting the wreck and doing anything to sort out the marine pollution it has caused?

[Cows getting bigger]

Three day hangover after celebrating a 3rd rate poet? :hmm:

[frodo_monkey]

piesupper, you are a tit. That is all.

[F3sRBest]

what frodo said +1

[LookingNorth]

You want to question the choice of music that accompanies that video on the BBC?

1) To my non-technical ear it sounds more like other ambient music (from a car radio, perhaps?) rather than any dubbed-on soundtrack. Try listening to it again, that music is definitely directional.

2) WTF does it matter anyway? A totallly pointless comment. Wag your finger somewhere else.

3) Perhaps you should be questioning the pilots decision to fly so close to the buildings of innocent civilians when he has a sick jet?
I have no idea just where this video was taken from. Was this a possible approach to Stornoway?

The RAF and its glorious allies are responsible for too many smoking holes in the Scottish countryside - so far we have been lucky - no civilian deaths - so far. You still make a mess of our hills and waters far too often. While I am not going down the "narrowly missed the orphanage" route, just cos its sparsely populated doesn't mean its UNpopulated.

4) Want to go and play at fast jets? Do it in the Falklands, at least you are still (sort of) welcome there. The RAF want to shut airbases in Scotland? Don't expect to come up here with your noisy toys and expect to be welcome. And before you give me this spiel about "practising to save lives in Afghanistan", yadda yadda yadda, we were never asked if we wanted to go play at imperialists in Afghanistan (or Iraq). Your pathetic attempts to crawl to the Yanks have made us much more vulnerable, not safer. Ask anyone who was on a bus in London a few years back or tried to go on holiday from Glasgow airport.

PS in spite of the above, I AM genuinely glad the crew got out OK. I hope they appreciate the service they got from the NHS at Raigmore. Maybe they will note how the NHS works a whole lot better in Scotland than down south. Lucky they didn't have to rely on BUPA as the English Tories and LibDems would have us do, eh?

PPS will you be lifting the wreck and doing anything to sort out the marine pollution it has caused?

Excellent crab & sassenach baiting. 8/10, two points deducted for lack of incomprehensible swearing.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

piesupper,

I fully agree with your comments regarding Raigmore - Mrs D'Sorderlee works there. For your information, the wreck will be removed - I believe that a vessel is already on the way - and, as far as possible - it is in the sea after all - the pollution issue will be resolved. As for your rant about imperialist blah; perhaps you should be venting your spleen at the democratically elected Government (and the one that replaced them) that has determined the policy in the ME rather than the members of an internet forum.

Duncs:ok:

[piesupper]

Is that it?
Is that all you have to say?
It wasn't YOUR nephew and mates who were fishing in the area and could have been hit by the wreckage. As it was they were a couple of miles away. Still close enough. They may even have the first to get a call in for assistance for all you know, monkey boy.
But they are only civilians, what do they matter?
Only the ones who pay taxes so you lot have the luxury to annoy the rest of us.
We're just "collateral"

As the Welsh guy said, "Piss off, Biggles"

[30mRad]

Piesupper.

You really are a pompous idiot. Have you actually spoken to anyone senior in the RAF on what their base closure options would be? I guarantee it wouldn't be to close them - they offer opportunities that some of the bases in England do not. It is the govt that will force these decisions - the govt your Scottish leader is part of (whether you like it or not). As is usually the case when base closure is mentioned, the locals suddenly rally round saying don't close it when for years they have been whining about the noise/english/military presence/blah.

I can guarantee that any GR4 crew (and any RAF crew) would make every possible effort to steer a doomed jet away from anything that might cause damage. Amazingly enough hillsides always do better than the jet in a fight, so a bit of a clean up and you don't know it's been there. Video is a view through a straw, it doesn't show you the wider picture.

Wind your neck in and be glad we don't have 2 fatalities.

Getting off my soap box now.

30 mRad

[Cows getting bigger]

Hadrian had the right idea.

Anyway, back to aircraft crashing........

[The Old Fat One]

Piesupper, or may I call you Tom?

Didn't take you long to get internet access in prison, did it.

[c130jbloke]

Hey Piesupper ( or collateral ?)

You don't happen to best mates with some guy called "G Broon" per chance ?

A whinging Jock ? what will they think of next ?

[Union Jack]

Just a pity they lost the No1 and No5 uniforms, Breitling watches and other personal items aicrew always carry on the aircraft just in case of a diversion.

Well, at least they will have a Goldfish Club tie to wear....:)

Jack

[Tester_76]

It wasn't YOUR nephew and mates who were fishing in the area and could have been hit by the wreckage. As it was they were a couple of miles away. Still close enough. They may even have the first to get a call in for assistance for all you know, monkey boy.


I can say with 100% certainity, your nephew or mates were not the first to call for assistance.....

[Climebear]

Piesupper

It wasn't YOUR nephew and mates who were fishing in the area and could have been hit by the wreckage.

You are quite right.

However, nor was my nephew in the Edinburgh hospital that had its snow cleared by the military to enable essential access because the local authority lacked the ability.

Nor was my nephew one of the several Scottish people I spent numerous hours of my life looking for as RAF and RN Search and Rescue assets support Scottish civil authorities.

Nor was my nephew one of the Scottish people that my team administered life saving first aid to while waiting for the Scottish Ambulance Service to arrive.

Nor is my nephew a Scottish student PPL who, no doubt, flies in airspace covered by ScATCC(Mil) or could need to use the Service of the (military manned) D&D Cell.

Nor is my nephew one of the 20% of the adult population of Morayshire whose employment is provided as a direct result of the RAF's presence in the area...

[just another jocky]

piesupper - you are either trawling, which is in very poor taste, or you are indeed a tit. I suppose everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I prefer them to be informed and relevant, unlike yours. PS - do you drive a car in Scotland? Because if you do, YOU are more likely to kill another Scotsman than any RAF pilot is. Now kindly cancel your membership of this site so we don't have to accidentally read any more of your quite ludicrous comments.

Re the video, as Moi/ says, that could be any GR4, though it could have been the accident aircraft. It clearly is not in any apparant difficulty, at least none that you can tell from the video and from what little I know, the evidence would have been visible.

As I said before, this pointless speculation helps no-one and merely provides the flatulence that some on this thread appear to revel in. Those that need to know, do. Those that don't....sorry.

Oh, and with no offence intended to the NHS in Scotland, the crew were moved ASAP down to a hospital somewhere in England where they are equipped to provide the specialist care associalted with an ejection.

[glad rag]

Unbelievable that a thread could degenerate so dramatically due to racists both sides of the divide :ugh:

[4015]

Emergency cover row after jet crash - UK News - MSN News UK (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=155989053)

Thought this might be of interest, I apologise for the source not being anything better.

Just to put in my opinion, Piesupper... The level of your ignorance and overdramatic borderline retardation is almost praiseworthy.

Feel free to take your opinions to the pub, they are entirely uneducated and based on pure fantasy, and as such are not welcome here. (I'm new, and even I can see that).

[draken55]

Two airmen rescued after jet crashes in the Minch - Press & Journal (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2111337/)

An update from to-days Press & Journal. Can't see anything about a transfer south or for that matter the need for one.

Are you permitted to indicate the source of your info just another jockey?

[Pontius Navigator]

It wasn't YOUR nephew and mates who were fishing in the area and could have been hit by the wreckage. As it was they were a couple of miles away. Still close enough.

Actually they were not close enough.

As any mariner will tell you, they hope and pray for salvage rights.

[Pontius Navigator]

This could be a video of any GR4 flying past with its gear down/landing lights on.

Care to expand.?

If the Gairloch where the crew was picked up is the one on the mainland it is 36 miles from Stornoway. If the crew was diverting to Stornoway there is no way they could have been videoed on recovery to Stornoway, as suggested, and then crashed that far away.

down near Gairloch on the Scottish mainland

So the Beeb Boobed and just took a random vid as gospel.

[The Ancient Geek]

Speedy recovery to both aircrew.


Indeed, hopefully they will not have suffered the usual spinal compression too badly, ejecting saves lives but can lead to a life of back pain.

[John R81]

BBC News - Images show RAF Tornado jet crash scene (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-12306305)
BBC News - RNLI images of RAF jet crash site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-12309083)


Images taken by lifeboat crew reveal the scene of a Tornado jet crash off the west coast of Scotland on Thursday.

The two crew members from RAF Lossiemouth ejected from the aircraft and were receiving treatment to injuries in hospital in Inverness.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said it was hoped the pair would be released from hospital later on Friday.

Photographs taken by Stornoway RNLI show lifeboat volunteers recovering pieces of wreckage from the Minch.

The jet came down near Gairloch on the Scottish mainland.
A Royal Navy minehunter, HMS Blyth, has been on the scene searching for the aircraft.

The MoD said a full investigation into the cause of the incident would take place.

[just another jocky]

draken55 - I work at Marham, so have some inside knowledge and am trying to carefully not say more than I am allowed to but enough to stifle the speculating. Even for those of us on the 'inside' on this one, we are still discouraged from speculating as we only know a few isolated facts. The BoI will announce the findings in due course.

[frodo_monkey]

Are you permitted to indicate the source of your info just another jockey?

There is a specialist hospital unit that deals with ejection injuries.

[draken55]

Just a jockey.

Many thanks. I am always a bit suspicious of any footage that appears on the internet after an event and lets face it, the standard of journalism is dire nowadays. Happy to await the BofI

My real concern was with ejection injuries having to be dealt with "down south". A transfer can't be pleasant so soon after sustaining injury and with many training areas up here, I would have hoped NHS Scotland had the skills needed.

[heights good]

Guys, please don't get annoyed at Piesupper.

He is entitled to post whatever he likes, after all we are here to defend the freedom of this country. We maybe don't agree with his post, however the more he rants the less weight his posts will carry.

Let him have his 2 mins of fame, after all he must have taken 5 mins out of his life to type what he posted. That is 5 mins he will never get back and it has been completely unproductive. It always makes me chuckle when people reply to these posts because they don't agree with it. He obviously has an opinion that for him is fact, he isn't wrong, he just has a different viewpoint.

Don't waste your time or heart beats on it. :rolleyes:

HG

[just another jocky]

My real concern was with ejection injuries having to be dealt with "down south". A transfer can't be pleasant so soon after sustaining injury and with many training areas up here, I would have hoped NHS Scotland had the skills needed.

The treatment of ejection injuries is a specialised one that is rarely (even more so) needed these days and so would be uneconomical for too many places to maintain. I think there are 2, possibly 3 establishments in the UK capable of it, all in England. No great reason for that I suspect other than money saving ones.

[KarlADrage]

FWIW, one of the guys over on Fighter Control FighterControl • Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast • View topic - Tornado ejection. (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=287&t=26299&start=40)
is adamant that the accident jet is ZG792, which apparently has a grey nose and cannot therefore be the jet in the video (which has a black nose).

[TheWizard]

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2010/07/dear_asteroid_hunters_stop_tel/nothing_to_see_here.jpg

[Bolli]

Sorry about jumping back a bit... but:


This could be a video of any GR4 flying past with its gear down/landing lights on.

Care to expand.?


Is it just me or were there 2 tornadoes flying close together on this sortie?

[PotentialPilot]

The video is rubbish, wasn't much point in them putting it up to be honest.

[Green Flash]

The video may be of the No2 who called in the ejection and stayed on top to keep an eye on the guys and home the helo on to to scene. Presume it stayed till it was on fumes and then div'd to EGPO. Although the last time I flew in/out of Stornoway the main runway starts and stops in the sea. Unless they have started building houses and trees in the Minch it might be just some gash vid of any Tonka.

I would also suggest that anyone in the Minch is in far greater risk of being clobbered by one of the many super tankers or bulkers ploughing through.

And whilst I'm here, :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok: to the guys on the SCG S-92 for getting 'em out of the oggin in quick time. Nice one boys.

[NorthSouth]

glad rag:Unbelievable that a thread could degenerate so dramatically due to racists both sides of the divideMy thoughts entirely. If this is anything like representative of what pilots think then it's clear we're all f**ked.

NS

[Pontius Navigator]

That vid could possibly have been shot at Holm, RW36?

[Lancasterman]

Fresh video off BBC for you all,

THe aircraft definately doesn't look happy

I also question the filmers choice of music :=


Sorry but.. what? It looks like a typical approach with gear down or am I missing something?:confused:

[whowhenwhy]

You're not missing anything, there is no way that that vid shows the accident aircraft given what I've read today. The Scottish pieman has clearly never got over Culloden (sorry I've been drinking) and everyone else who doesn't need to know really should wait for the BoI.

BZ to the coastguard, ARCC, D&D Scottish and all the Tonker crews involved because the system appears to have worked. Speedy recovery guys!

[sonas]

I believe the Tonka in the video was a solo who had been to EGPO for Fuel. The ditched aircraft was one of two on a sortie in the area at the same time rumour has it. Good work by all the Services in the Emergency phase and hope all goes well for the crew. BTW there are some planks posting:ugh:

[draken55]

"I would have hoped NHS Scotland had the skills needed".

BBC News - Scots back pain patients sent to England for treatment (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12307225)

Off thread but the above item from to-days news indicates it does not.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Mate,

The story refers to chronic back pain - treated in Bath! - so irrelevant in this case.

Duncs:ok:

[Biggus]

If anyone who ejects in the UK and suffers serious back injuries then they normally end up in the location given by the link:

HIGH INCIDENCE OF OCCULT SPINAL INJURIES FOLLOWING VERTICAL AIRCRACT EJECTION: A PROSPECTIVE STUDY USING MAGNETIC RESONANCE IMAGING -- Lam et al. 87-B (3): 240 -- The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery (Proceedings) (http://proceedings.jbjs.org.uk/cgi/content/abstract/87-B/SUPP_III/240-d)

e.g.

Tiverton crash pilot Dan Arlett tells of dramatic landing (http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/Tiverton-pilot-tells-crash-landing/article-1869335-detail/article.html)

[draken55]

"The story refers to chronic back pain - treated in Bath! - so irrelevant in this case."

Sorry, the earlier post expressed a believe that NHS Scotland should have the skills for serious back injuries as we have people falling off mountains, getting hurt on skis/ski boards and some important Military low flying areas. I posted the link as evidence we don't.:O

[SmilingKnifed]

Piss Off Biggles indeed Piemonkey! Why not copy the welsh chap's sentiments and write the same on your roof? Let me know how it works out for you though!

Top effort by everyone involved in getting the crew home safe. Beers all round methinks :ok:

[Peter-RB]

Oi, Piesupper,

You sound just like a typical Labour sucking Jock, If indeed the English( are we all not British, or are you still clutching a broken Claymore) removed all their toys and industry from north of the Blacksmiths shop, despite a lot of hypocrital moves by the former Prime minister who himself is a Cyclopian inward thinking Jock, then you girlies who wear the skirts would be back to the hills and peat burning cottages to keep warm.

So why not try to be totally different and set an example to the rest of your type, think of all the money the English pour into your country, also.. just to remind you,... a load of pinkies wearing red tunics beat seven colours out of you lot several times, thats why we look after you all now ,.... Oh and on March 13 we will do agin at Twickers.

so get a life wear some tighter underdraws and think of the English money, that you lot splash on the ceramics most days..:ugh:

Peter R-B
Lancashire
England

[draken55]

"are we all not British"

"think of all the money the English pour into your country"

Think you need to decide too Peter RB:=

As ever silly to rise to the bait and with a response that just adds fuel to the fire. Can we all avoid this c**p.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Peter R-B,

You appear to be as much of an English (or British) @rse as piesupper is a Scottish (or British) @rse.

yours aye,

a kilt wearing Duncs:ok:
(whose wife comes from south of the Blacksmith's - only just though!)

[Tashengurt]

Well this thread demonstrates PPRuNe's worst trait. That every other thread degenerates into name calling, one up-manship and petty squabbling is a sorry state of affairs.
Given the target audience of this forum it seems reasonable to expect that a large majority of contributors are or were commissioned officers. Makes me glad I never ascended to such low ranks.

[rab-k]

Dear oh dear; you lot need to wake up...

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2135/12119137/22241745/368720116.jpg


If the cross-border willy-waving doesn't cease I suggest the Mods lock this thread and block the principal offenders; you wanna carry on, then pi$$ off to 'JB' where this guff belongs.

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Hope the 'driver' and 'rear' are looking forward to receiving their complementary Martin Baker ties. Speedy recovery from the lumps'n'bumps chaps. :ok:

[piesupper]

Dear, dear dear, I go away for a quiet weekend and return to sheer unadulterated racist bile (with some honourable exceptions)

First up: the video and the "inappropriate" soundtrack that first aroused my ire (see post #48) would now appear to be of the wingman making a perfectly safe approach to EGPO for refuelling - I totally withdraw any suggestion that the pilot was too close to the traditional orphanage with a sick jet and apologise for any implied slur. TBH it didn't look/sound sick to me but I was stupid enough to initially believe that it WAS the aircraft that crashed and I am no expert on how a sick turbine sounds.

My basic point remains, we're sick of the low-flying in the Highlands and even sicker of the attitudes expressed by the flyers and the organisation (in the loosest possible terms) that employs them.

Some of the cr*p posted is perhaps not worth rebutting but I'm sat here twiddling thumbs waiting on a batch process to finish so I might as well..... I'm happy otherwise to take this to Jet-Blast and debate with those of you who are at least capable of rational discourse. The rest of you can "Piss off Biggles" to put it mildly.

#49 At least our own "3rd rate poet" wrote all his own stuff unlike your turgid Shakespeare. BTW just when is Shakespeare night? My desk diary does not show it, but Burns night is celebrated around the world and not just by ex-pat Scots.

#55 You will find that (and perhaps Mr D'Sorderlee (hat-tip to Mrs D'Sorderlee- I've been in Raigmore too often myself recently and appreciate all her colleagues work) will concur) the "hassle/danger" footprint is much larger and barely contiguous with the "benefit" footprint of the bases in NE Scotland.

"be glad we don't have 2 fatalities" indeed sir, I'm even more grateful that the fatalities do not include the crew of my nephew's or any other boat. Remember the "Antares" out of Carradale? To be fair, that was the RN...

#56 just racist cr*p

#57 very poor joke regarding Scotland's newest political prisoner. Would have been a trifle funnier if you had used his correct name "Tommy" just goes to show how little you know

#58 see 56 but even more ignorant

#60 at least the boat confirmed the position visually. Just maybe could have made the difference....

#61 dear dear, so ignorant on so many levels....

"However, nor was my nephew in the Edinburgh hospital that had its snow cleared by the military to enable essential access because the local authority lacked the ability."
First useful thing the soldiers have done in many years - my thanks to them for finally being of some worth for the taxes we pay to keep them off the dole

"Nor was my nephew one of the several Scottish people I spent numerous hours of my life looking for as RAF and RN Search and Rescue assets support Scottish civil authorities."
Do we not pay tax and are therefore entitled to the same service as any other part of the "United" Kingdom? Your point is?

"Nor was my nephew one of the Scottish people that my team administered life saving first aid to while waiting for the Scottish Ambulance Service to arrive."
Thank you for your basic humanity - FYI I have also administered first aid at the side of the M40 - don't think it was life-threatening to be fair but do we really have to count?

"Nor is my nephew a Scottish student PPL who, no doubt, flies in airspace covered by ScATCC(Mil) or could need to use the Service of the (military manned) D&D Cell"
Again, do we not pay tax and are therefore entitled to the same service as any other part of the "United" Kingdom? Your point is? I also note that I do NOT receive the same level of "service" as do those in the S and E of this "United" Kingdom. Regardless, I am glad that service is there but am FULLY aware that it is primarily for the military and and civilian "benefit" is merely co-incidental.

"Nor is my nephew one of the 20% of the adult population of Morayshire whose employment is provided as a direct result of the RAF's presence in the area..."
I refer to the above answers re tax and grovel respectfully at our imperialist masters feet for the crumbs that are so graciously thrown for us. I KNOW this is money that would be far better spent in Tonbridge Wells or somewhere where they talk properly and the natives arent so tiresome but hey, **** happens .... A fresh "Piss Off Biggles" just for you, matey.

#73 Dunno who or what you think you are defending me from. You arent doing much of a job of it if Tavistock Sq et al and Glasgow Airport are anything to go by. The threat from the USSR disappeared a long time ago and so did most of your mob's raison d'etre.

#83 Your remarks re Culloden are extremely distasteful given the genocide that was perpetrated for many years following . Would you dare to trivialise and/or express similar sentiments to anybody of the Jewish faith? I thought not. You would potentially (and rightly) be prosecuted if you did so. Bevvied or not.

#90 Tssk tssk - Let me guess, Daily Mail reader? If you repeated that in the street, I'd have you for racially aggravated breach of the peace.

#91 Tashengurt - so true.
I expect racist bile from the underclass Engerlund supporters but to receive such hatred from the so called educated "officer" class simply reinforces my belief that there is nothing "United" about this Kingdom.

The whole "subsidy-junkie" crap0la is really quite funny. This was a Big Lie put about the Unionists in Scotland to support their "too wee too stupid too poor" rebuttal to the idea of Scottish independence. The English were never meant to hear this Big Lie. However the redtops and the Daily Mail got hold of it and repeated it as gospel leading to the ignorant p1sh spouted by our correspondent from Lancashire and now you poor saps think you need rid of us cos we cost you money. That @rsehole Brown, the North British person that was PM (you know, the one that tried to tell us all he was British, not Scottish) was so spectacularly bad that it ignited the recent rise in anti-Scots racism. Tony Blair (who was equally as culpable for the present screw-up ) was just as "Scottish" as GB but managed to hide it through his accent and did not attract the same amount of abuse and hatred - just goes to show what a bunch of racists your average English punter is, really..or is it how easily you are led by ignorance in the Daily mail etc. Personally it hurts a bit because there are many English up here who are good friends and colleagues but politically its wonderful for the Nationalists - keep it chaps, you are playing a wonderful game. ;-)

Remember its the oil in the sea and the whisky ageing in the barrels that Call Me Dave and his Tory toffs are mortgaging to try and keep your pathetic service-sector Kingdom afloat, not the value of your semis in Surbiton.

Gotta run know, my compile has finally finished - must get on and earn money, pay tax to keep you chaps in the style you are accustomed to.

A couple of links for you who can follow them. not you PeterRB - it will only hurt your head

World Renowned Economist says: 'Scotland subsidising rest of UK' (http://www.newsnetscotland.com/economy/861-world-renowned-economist-says-scotland-subsidising-rest-of-uk)
Precious Few Heroes: The case for Scottish independence on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/12458284)
Tax receipts from financial services sector fall 13% - 25 Jan 2011 - Accountancy Age (http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/1939247/tax-receipts-financial-services-sector-fall)


PS in spite of all of the above - genuine best wishes to both crew members. I wish you a speedy and full recovery.

Toodle-pip

[draken55]

piesupper

For what it's worth as a fellow Scot who values this Aviation Forum,I would be far happier all for political points to be on other forums.

However, you state that "we're sick of the low-flying in the Highlands and even sicker of the attitudes expressed by the flyers and the organisation" Who is or are we? On what basis do you believe that you represent anyone other than yourself?:hmm:

[glad rag]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+1 :hmm:

[sled dog]

piesupper, i think your mummy should use the parental control feature on your computer........:p

[lurkio]

Or maybe his daddy should have used the parental control feature that traditionally comes in packets of three.

[piesupper]

draken55 - as I said, quite happy to take it to Jet Blast but I will NOT let racist bile as you saw above go un-challenged.

As for the low-flying, ask around in the NW Highlands, ask around Tain/Dornoch, ask anywhere they don't have jobs directly dependent on the bases.

Sled dog, lurkio - is that the best you can do? very poor...

[Wrathmonk]

the flyers and the organisation (in the loosest possible terms) that employs them

I guess all future requests for (free) information from the (military) posters on this board, freely given in order to help you build your PC simulators, may go unanswered in future ....

No racism implied or intended. I would have said the same regardless of piesuppers colour or race.

(Check out piesuppers post history and this will make a lot more sense!)

[green granite]

I will NOT let racist bile as you saw above go un-challenged.

A rant about the Scots by and English person cannot be classed racist as we are the same race.

[just another jocky]

This thread reads very strangely when one poster is on your ignore list! :}

[draken55]

piesupper

I agree with the point on racist language and said as much in previous posts.

As far as the low flying issue is concerned, these areas have been in use for so long, do they not pre-date the arrival of many of the people you now believe to be angered by it?

[piesupper]

Draken55 - I can trace my ancestry on my mothers side with very good confidence to around 1780. DNA studies of archaeological digs in Strathnaver suggest my forebears have been there or thereabouts for 5000 years. Doubtless with a bit of Norse cross-breeding, I'll give you that but I think we were all there prior to thon New Zealander chappie, Santos-Dumont and the Johnny-come-lately Wright bros. Its not all white settlers in Sutherland, though sometimes it seems like it. And yes, I appreciate the point you make about folk who move into the vicinity of an airport and immediately start moaning about the noise.
Just because the area has been abused for a long time does not make it any better. Strange logic, there.

Green Granite, we are NOT the same race, what a cowardhly cop-out.

Wrathmonk, had you bothered to look at the links pertaining to the flight-sim I do some development for you would see that it is ENTIRELY voluntary, ENTIRELY free of charge to ANYONE who wants to download it and neither I nor anyone in the project will have ANY financial benefit from it. Your cheap little jibe about funding my PPL on the back of information given freely by members in Aviation History and Nostalgia (thank you again folks) is totally unfounded and frankly you owe me an apology. It is also quite ridiculous to think that any potential profit from a flight-sim add-on would look at paying for a PPL. It wouldn't even pay for the petrol down to Elvington to look over the Victor in question. Idiot. Nice to know I annoyed you enough that you need to go trawling through my posting history though :-) Win.

FlightGear Flight Simulator (http://www.flightgear.org) <-- Check it out

[Green Flash]

With respect to the variable quality posts in here please may I ask a pertinent question?

[Green Flash]

Thankyou.

My question is .....

.... how are the boys doing? (the usual personal info caveats apply, natch)

[Grabbers]

Please. Stop. Feeding. It.












Please?

[piesupper]

FlightGear Flight Simulator (http://www.flightgear.org/introduction.html)

[draken55]

Pie supper

Thanks and duly noted. Half of my family came off the potato boat and I guess that's why I don't have any "master race" chip on my shoulder be that Scot or English:ooh:

[baffman]

Please. Stop. Feeding. It.Agreed.

from a Scot in Scotland. :*

[The Old Fat One]

very poor joke regarding Scotland's newest political prisoner


You'll be telling me William Wallace was a freedom fighter next....

[thowman]

No, the freedom fighter was the Northprop F5 :=

[TurbineTooHot]

Please stop everyone, can't you see that Piesupper is a victim......

[Climebear]

Piesupper

As you accused my post (#61) of ignorance, I feel that I should be permitted an opportunity to respond.

My post had nothing to do with a service provided for the public out of taxation.

All of the instances mentioned involved personnel and assets that are placed in the northern part of Britain because it is used for military flying. Take the military flying away and those supporting personnel and assets that provide (in your words) 'co-incidental' benefit to the wider population go with it. (Hence the reason why there isn't a great deal of military SAR cover (rotary or land-based) in the south-east of England).

[sled dog]

Well, at least he is a balanced person, a chip on each shoulder.

[cheesedoff]

Gents,

90% of this thread is embarrassing. Give yourselves a slap and get on with life.

[red.zebra]

All Scots (like wot I am) are not like piesupper
I am sure all the English lads are not like Peter R-B

Low flying, or otherwise, is not the title of this thread.

Now behave, you are embarrassing your respective nations :=

[baffman]

Agreed red.zebra from a fellow Scot. The crew would never have crashed their aircraft if they had known that this thread would be the result!

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

the so called educated "officer" class


So, Piesupper, you're Military Aircrew are you? Or maybe a backroom boy or girl, of commissioned rank or otherwise? No, thought not. Has it occurred to you that quite a lot of the posters on here are also nothing to do with the military, let alone the dreaded 'officer class'?

Damn, hungry troll 1, TOTD 0...

[barnstormer1968]

I am finding this to be a disturbing thread.

When I first saw the title my initial thoughts were about the crew, and I hoped that the lack of a positive title (as in crew OK) was just playing safe!

What in God's name is so wrong with some folks minds or lives that they embark on a 'bitching contest' on what may of happened and how 'we' (whoever 'we' are!) do or don't like this and that.

The aircraft is lost...Oh well, never mind.

The pink fleshy occupants are on the mend...Very important and good news.

The aircraft didn't land on any schools, fishermen convents etc, and that's it, end of story.

I'm sure that during its flight it COULD have crashed on any number of people....But do we have to name them all one by one?

[threepointonefour]

... and now I remember why.

[L J R]

For F*ck Sake - as a Tornado pilot interested in rumour - can we please re-start the speculation banter - at least it is entertaining...!

[SRENNAPS]

For F*ck Sake - as a Tornado pilot interested in rumour - can we please re-start the speculation banter - at least it is entertaining...!

Speculation:

Chain of events:

1. HP4 Air Off take Pipe not done up properly and hot air leaking.

2. Fuel leak in base of fin.

3. The Nav of the number 2 jet lobbed his burning tab out of the window and it lodged in the base of the fin of the 1st jet, setting fire to the fuel which had been heated by the HP4 air.:=:=

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Surely 1GASO prevent smoking in the ac!

Hang him!!

Duncs:ok:

[The Old Fat One]

3. The Nav of the number 2 jet lobbed his burning tab out of the window and it lodged in the base of the fin of the 1st jet, setting fire to the fuel which had been heated by the HP4 air


Made I chuckle