Blink update

[Superpilot]

How are Blink fairing these days? Rumour has it they might be hiring FOs this year. Things must be looking up then?

Out of interest, how many hours does a FO at Blink or Ambeo etc fly per month?

Thanks

[BestAviation]

Blink had on their website that they were accepting resumes for a short period but now it says to NOT send them any more pilot CVs. Maybe they received too many....:confused:

[NukeHunt]

There is a link here from 2 days ago :- pilotjobs329 - Latest Pilot Jobs provides the latest aviation vacancies around the world. (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/pilotjobs329.html)

It says to follow the instructions and apply through Blink website, but on the Blink website it says they are not looking for any pilots at the moment and not to contact them :confused:

Surely they can't have had that many applications in 2 days....

:sad:

[BestAviation]

I think that website is just posting stuff as and when they come across info on the web. I don't think someone from Blink posted it.

Blink must have just updated their website, which I find to be a somewhat more reliable source. I checked Blink's website a couple of days ago as part of the review process on my own website (which for T&C reasons I cannot mention, but take a guess...), and it said Blink was accepting resumes then.

From the horse's mouth - Open Positions | Blink (http://www.flyblink.com/team-blink/work-for-us/open-positions)

[rjay259]

Glad I sent mine in then.

It was saying for both seats as they would be increasing the size of the fleet. Not sure by how many.

I got the info from the website as i saw it on (hot beverage) that loves milk.

259.

[BestAviation]

Yah. I think the smaller operators are harder to keep track of as the "window of opportunity" can sometimes be very narrow and the hiring process isn't as structured as with the larger airlines. I don't know if any of it is related to attrition or if it's all due to fleet expansion. I would imagine that from time to time some of Blink's pilots dream of flying something bigger after awhile. This time around it seemed they were just harvesting candidates for possible hiring later in the spring. I don't know any more than what Blink's website said so if anyone care to comment that would be great.

Flying is a bit like musical chairs; it's fun when the music is playing but it sucks if you don't have a seat when the music stops.

[bizjets101]

Blink recently added a New Mustang G-FBLD - operated in Lotus Cars colours.

Photograph of Aircraft G-FBKD (http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodules/ginfo/ginfo_photo.aspx?regmark=G-FBKD&imgname=G-FBKD001&imgtype=JPG)

[hollingworthp]

But is that the colours for Lotus Cars, Lotus Group, Lotus Racing, Team Lotus, Renault etc etc :E

[SWBKCB]

But is that the colours for Lotus Cars, Lotus Group, Lotus Racing, Team Lotus, Renault etc etc

It has a Malaysian flag on the other side, if that helps.....
:E:E:E

[lear60fellow]

that is a really ugly aircraft

[Phil Brockwell]

It's ugly at the moment, but it'll probably look alright when they've finnished it.

I assume they are going to paint the white bits?

[x933]

Proof that they're not flying much; they couldn't afford enough paint to finish the job :E

[Kerling-Approsh KG]

What's the betting that that is vinyl, not paint..?



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Up to a point.



Sadly, that point is well short of the scheme on the aircraft in question!

[topjetgeezer]

Heard on good authority that Blink are shelving three aircraft and have let go of almost half their staff. Apparently the investors were very close to pulling the plug, but backed off trying to merge with Globes in Germany or Austria. Apparently the merger is off now so watch this space. Glad I never applied now.:ouch:

[Superpilot]

How odd. Have heard the same. One thing baffles me though, the recruitment page opened in late January inviting applications. Was this accidental?

[topjetgeezer]

I saw that too and was going to apply but it vanished as quick as it appeared. Lucky escape. That would tie in with the investors talking about pulling the plug. Apparently they made redundancies this time last year too. At this rate there will be nobody left next year.:sad: Anything like this is bad for the industry but most reckon their main Ops guy doesn't know what he's doing and has a lot to do with the sinking ship.:ugh:

[S Midgeon]

Thats strange, I heard from a friend of mine who flies for Blink that the Ops dudes were extremely good in support especially when the proverbial hit the fan. Mind you I supopose this is where the rumours start

[Gulfstreamaviator]

It all goes to prove that money does ensure good taste,

Gld

[topjetgeezer]

Hi Midgeon, I'm sure most of the dudes are dudes and nobody wants to see a company on its knees like this and hope your friend keeps their job, but the point is: if the backers are twitchy then it follows that so are the clients, employees, handlers, creditors etc. It's a slippery slope it's natural.:=

[topjetgeezer]

I spoke to my friend of a friend and it seems Midgeon was right. No complaints about the Ops guys. The top bloke is infact a top bloke. I got a chinese whisper and got the wrong Mustang company on that bit. Hope they sort out the rest of it and it all works out for them. ;)

[AviPro]

I heard some rumours that Blink is going into liquidation...that is the reason why they are not hiring anylonger. It is sad as I perceive it as a good company...

[topjetgeezer]

What would happen to their AOC in that case?

[AviPro]

They still have their AOC as they have to operate 4a/c, as they are trying to sell 3a/c as you stated below, and wrightfully so. They have merged and cut the Ops team with the Flightservices team, made redundant some pilots and office staff. They are now desperately reaching out to brokers to survive...

[S Midgeon]

My source says that what P***** the brokers off was the atitude of the sharp tongued Outbound MD of sales who apparently thought he could do without brokers.His replacement has apparently begun building bridges much to the relief of the sales guys who vehemently deny the poaching of customers ....All that info for a beer...... watch this space!

[topjetgeezer]

Brokers aren't stupido and they all talk to each other. :ugh:

[FL480]

Just saw in LBG yesterday G-FBNK with a new livery and "JetPresso" titles on the tail.
Still flying for Blink ?

[topjetgeezer]

It's apparently a vote of no confidence from the Broker community

[No RYR for me]

Brokers aren't stupido Well that is a complete different topic all together! :rolleyes:

[S Midgeon]

Got the low down last night on G-FBNK it now belongs to Jetpresso but it and G-FBKD are now on Management contracts to Blink. Is this a change to the previously stated Air Taxi party line? my contact was playing coy but he did agree that Blink would change as and when the market dictated. He also agreed that there was some relief over the exit of the bull in the china shop antics of the ex Sales MD.....Does that make 7 or 8 aircraft they have now, It was certainly 7 when I was there?

[topjetgeezer]

Ok got the latest info. Selling two, operating four plus two on management contracts. Only got pilots for three and a half airframes so maybe some recruitment needed. Outgoing MD got a new project see thread below by Gulez ref CL 601.

[proceeding outbound]

Then surely it would be logical for them to hire back the pilots they recently got rid off as they are type rated, familiar with the operation and reasonably current.

[Oxeagle]

It seems that I can no longer get onto Blink's website (www.flyblink.com (http://www.flyblink.com)) as it appears to have been completely removed - is this indicative of anything?

[LGW Vulture]

Yes, its indicative of your lack of patience or your wish to see Blink´s final chapter.

.....where´s the embarrassed smilie?:rolleyes:

[topjetgeezer]

Spoke to a couple of brokers today and they said they would only use as a last resort since afraid of poaching. Trust just ain't there.

[Monkey Boy]

Sounds like 247 Jet.

No even a last resort - I'd rather walk than use those jokers!

[Sir George Cayley]

Here's a rumour for you.

Blink's current base is Farnborough, but...............

Start the guessing guys

Sir George Cayley

[Phil Brockwell]

I thought Blinks current base was Blackbushe, whenever I drive past there is always a nice static display of a swarm of mustangs? :E

PB

[No RYR for me]

Come on Phil even though English is not my first language I even know that a group of grasing mustangs are called a herd ;)

[Phil Brockwell]

OK, I'll start with my guess.

I guess that all the Blink aircraft will be moving to.......The Mojave. (Ka---Tish...... thank you very much I'm here all week.)

[flynowpaylater]

I guess that all the Blink aircraft will be moving to.......controller.com
Badaboom badaboom. :}

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Yep and all the crew down the dole office....

T**sers :ugh: :yuk::yuk:

[Phil Brockwell]

G-SPOTS,

The market is the size it is at any time, you fly for one company, or another company - the number of employed pilots remains constant no matter how many suppliers there are, it only changes with the number of passengers there are -

No need for the outrage - working for a start-up has a fairly accurately measured level of risk. Talking about it doesn't make it happen, that outcome was set a long time ago, and as yet is not known by any of us.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Make yourself feel better any way you like Phil...

Theres still people that may have been providing for others yesterday that may not be tomorrow suffering all the stress that that brings, so if you want to make light of that then go ahead....but for all of us who are waiting for the tap on the shoulder do us a favour make your little jokes with your buddies elsewhere and try to resist using your little jokey smiley :} gifs....you wouldn't express the same sentiment if there was an ex blink guy stood next to you in a bar.

I never liked the blink concept either and Ive locked horns with blink protagonists on here who were all going to revolutionise the business....

Wouldn't see them sacked at short notice in a difficult employment market though.....

[flynowpaylater]

Phil, quite right - nobody's having a dig at the drivers, or the ops guys, engineers etc....The point being that Blink, as in the senior management will be the architects of their own downfall should they indeed fall at all.

As Phil runs a company that on some level competes with Blink, its his job to understand what the competition is up to and whether they pose a threat to his business in the short and long term. Phils prediction from the outset has been that the business model of Blink will ulimately not have logeviety. Many in the industry agree with him. Surely pilots can also come to an informative decision based on the large amount of information and opinion that is readily available.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

FNPL

Pilots probably outnumber CEO's & MD's 50 to 1 on here if in doubt spell out what Pprune stands for, your posts are in bad taste, if its gone or going under then this thread might be the first port of call for those looking for information...all they'll see is you in effect gloating at their demise...

Its also hardly a start up they've been listed 5 years and flying for 3.

Fill your boots , leave your posts up.... everybody can see what sort of bloke you are...

Good day

[Phil Brockwell]

Let's get it in perspective here, I have no idea if Blink are near the end or not - I am not commenting on their likelihood of going pop, I am poking fun at Sir George Cayley's post -

Given that the whole purpose of Blink was to put me and my team out of work (and every other light jet operator) I think I will be allowed a little "I told you so Jig" IF they cease to trade.

Phil

[flynowpaylater]

G-SPOT - please get some perspective.

I enjoy a bit of banter but thats a bit silly isn't it? I have no wish to see people lose their jobs, but then again I have no control over it either.

Our industry simply isn't, never has been, or never will be a job for life industry. If you came into the flying game thinking it was then you didn't do you homework.

Lets not get all moralistic about it. Pilots will soon leave Blink if a better offer came a long. Leaving Blink with a pilot shortage. You have a short memory if you can't recall when this type of exodus has happened in the past. Its just they way the industry works, and sometimes its up, and sometime its down......welcome to the mad house.

[topjetgeezer]

No need to shake your head. Blink was based on a couple of Harvard college grads and Daddy's money. Seen it time and time again. They'll move on to a new project at Daddy's expense.

[Extra55]

Phil spotted these guys from the start well done, most brokers trusted Blink 100% with their customers to find that Blink gave the brokers customers business cards on board the flights sent the customers emails and basically tried to take the brokers lively hood away.

Its like stealing from the brokers. If you cant trust a supplier the word gets out quick. I will say they had a few good pilots good ops but were given very poor direction with no ethics from who every was in charge.

Each of the Cessna aircraft has devalued by $500,000 to $700,000 that’s a lot of money when you multiply by four I would hate to have backed that one.
:D

[proceeding outbound]

Firstly I thought they had 6 or 7 Mustangs?

Devaluation only applies if you sell them. If the business survives they should be keeping them........... and yes, I know the answer, if they had bought them now they may have been slightly cheaper but I dont believe Cessna have dropped the price by anywhere near half a million if at all.

[Extra55]

CESSNA may not have dropped the price, it's what the Market will pay for used EASA spec aircraft ,if they have 7 mustangs that's even a bigger loss. Let's see how the Market bids on these aircraft my guess is max $1.8 million to $2.million each . For any investor in aircraft or property the Market value is important as you got to know the real value even if your not selling like having your head in the clouds with out information. Also USd getting weaker

[proceeding outbound]

All the more reason to keep the business running until the market turns around!

I also fail to see why you think Blink bought the Mustangs to sell them again (for a profit or loss?). Investors are more likely to wait for the market to turn around if aircraft sales are what they are after but I dont think that was the business model.

If they have to sell,............well that's another story but its summer now so they should be able to at least tread water for the next 5 months.

From an outsider, they seem to be changing the business model to managed aircraft? Can anyone elaborate on that?

[Phil Brockwell]

I suppose it depends on how many new airframes they are tied to with Cessna - don't forget, the original plan was to have about 35 by now - if they have non-refundable deposits, they might have no choice that to take some deliveries of aircraft they don't need, or lose their deposit money.

[stowaway]

Dear Phil,

Last week, early morning, drove past Blackbushe, where four Blink Mustangs were `"swarming" off within fifteen minutes of each other. Obviously not off to The Mojave desert as they are all back (and forth).
Only one there today.

You must be very insecure if you feel that start up companies are trying to put you out of business. Competition is good bor business as it keeps everyone on their toes.

[Phil Brockwell]

Stowaway,

I would be insecure if I thought they were going to put us out of business, it's well documented here how successful I thought they would be.

Competition is good for business, but it was never really uncompetitive - let's not kid ourselves that the contribution of Blink is any more than temporary work experience for some otherwise unemployed pilots and ex-Vista chaps.


PB

[hawker750]

Stowaway

What Phil is getting at and a few others (me included)

1/ We do not mind competition if it if fair competition

2/ All start ups sell a £ for 80p in order to get market share. They
use their "start up capital" to finance this. Their start up capital is
obtained either by rich family members or "conning" financial institutions

3/ What Phil and I are bitter about is the way all start ups reckon they will
re-invent the wheel when it comes to aviaton. They talk about 10,20,30
aicraft. What they can not be told is that the charter maket is finite in
size, one simply cannot create a new market, only take from the
incumbents.

4/ So for the 2 or 3 years the start ups are selling £ for 80p the rest of
us have to compete in an unfair market. In some industries this
practice is known as "dumping" and is illegal, ie selling a product at below
cost. We all know what happens when the capital dries up and no profits
have been generated, yes you all say what a shame about the jobs and
shout at Phil!!

I think Phil is a little bit fed up at being told that he has not learned something from 20 years in this game!

As far as Blink is concerned I hope they survive because they will have learned a very valuable lesson in economics that the only thing in the long term that keeps a company alive is PROFIT. They should now be able to find a niche market and simply stay in that market. I have met some really good people from Blink (I cannot talk about their management) and I wish them well.

The real downside if Blink do not stay the course is that it will encourage yet another bunch of start ups with their amani suits, business plans and start up cash.:ugh:

[proceeding outbound]

That is simply wrong. If it were true most of the businesses around the world would not exist today and thats exactly what low cost airlines did for the masses in years gone by.

The other drivel about an unfair market! All the newbies have the opposite view....... the established guys can run cheaply because they have paid off their "old" aeroplanes and the likes of Blink are having to pay off new aircraft.

The market is free for all and if you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

[Phil Brockwell]

proceding outbound.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. there are only 2 operators in the UK with un-financed aircraft - most have managed aircraft, the rest of us pay our finance costs monthly.

If the "newbies" are stupid enough to buy brand new aircraft based on flawed market research in the diluded view that the business will fund both the borrowing and the deflation, then it is their own fault when it does not work.

And let's not include the likes of Ambeo and Flairjet in these Newbies. They have welcomed brokers business and done a good service - this thread is about Blink - not all new operators trying to make a go of things.

PB

[learjet50]

Tottaly agree with Phil

I Started in 1972 at Northern Executive Aviation and at that time all the other operators were Gentlemen in business none of this undercutting by 2 Bob to get the Job we all worked together charged a sensible rate and everbody was happy (customers/Broker/Clients)

Recently the Armani Suit Brigade came along who know F all about aviation and thought they would make a quick buck because of there Pals who would guarantee them Hours on there sparkling new Over financed aircraft Then came along Mr recession and took the wind out of there Armani Trousers.

Too many operators with too much of other peoples money(Cos they dont use there own for sure)

And then they run into the CAA and there rules so what do they do

Well hes my Pal so its Private or hes a friend of the boss who is lending him the A/c for Nothing (Abosulte Boxxocks)

I am only glad I am now out of this business and I feel sorry for the old school like Phil who has sweated his Bxxx of over the years to now be confounted by these morons with there M- Registration (Ooh its Private) cos its on the Manx registration and they only permit Private aircraft on the M Registration

Phil and all the rest of you por fuxxkers out there trying to wage a war with these Cowboys

Have a nice Easter (That does not apply to the Cowboys) to all the decent honest operators who do it right


Gerry


X N E A





Easter rant over go back to me easter eggs

[proceeding outbound]

My main point was about creating a new market. All entrepreneurs constantly look for new markets, be it a new application for their tool / product (aircraft) or a new area / location to use it etc.

My secondary point was about seeing things from the other side (a new start up). The 2 operators you mention with with un-financed aircraft (in the UK), do they not come in with often ridiculously low quotes? I'm in the industry and the answer is yes.

It would appear that anyone who's opinion varies from yours "obviously have no idea what we are talking about"!

My arguement is not that the Blink business model is correct (or not), just pointing out the other side to some statements made.

[hawker750]

Proceeeding Outbound

By comparing executive jet travel to the low cost airlines demonstates that you do not have the first clue about the economics of this industry. Of course you can create a market for £10 tickets because it did not exist before. The low costs manage this by achieving 5,000 hours per year utilisation and getting the crew to pay for their training (I am lucky to get 500 hours but I have NEVER asked a pilot to pay for a type rating). You cannot persuade many people to pay £10,000 to go to Malaga if they do not already do it. The market is stagnant for us and has even shrunk over the last 3 years. So tell me where do the start ups get their market?? Please tell me because I guess I have been doing something pretty stupid for the last 37 years.
Work this one one out The largest operator (Net Jets) cannot even make a profit and that is even with the clients paying for the cost of the aircraft. If it had not been for the largesse of Mr Buffett Net Jets would have folded years ago.
There is a market for start ups: find a small niche and do it well on a very very low cost base. That includes the armani suited mob cleaning out the aircraft loos at 3 o'clock in the morning ready for the next morning. Phil has had to do it and I certainly still have to.
Giving out all thse pearls of wisdom for free.... I must be going soft

[proceeding outbound]

You said it.:ok:

[stuckgear]

Phil and hawker..

Bang on the money there guys.

Proceeding Outbound,


Along with the proliferation of past and potential fractional ownership schemes, many of which have collapsed, attempting to copy the netjets model within the US was never and never will be viable within Europe, or in fact many areas of the globe. It is simply due to the timing and placing of the enterprise that existed at the time within the economic structure available that allowed netjets to grow as it did.

Creating a market is both uneconomic and potentially similar to a illegitimate trading practises and can delve into realms of legality. Creating a market is a inherently dangerous to any form of industry as it is based on an illusion of a market that does not exist within the realms of viability within the market place. What does exist is the potential to exploit niche markets that are currently either undeserved or not serviced by current operators. There is a distinct difference there.

Both the Charter and management markets within the UK and the EU are distinctly different from those in other markets. To create a market as before is unviable and to a degree it is reinventing the wheel and simply as a business is not viable in the medium to long term, as has been shown.

Established businesses are exactly that established in the market and with the specific markets and customers defined and served, these may grow and evolve into new market niches that are established as undeserved or not served as they evolve, though essentially they exist as established businesses.

NB: this is shortened down into a couple of paragraphs to prevent a boring and lengthy précis of an industry sector.

[proceeding outbound]

I'm sure a lot of clever people would call that a lack of vision.

But enough said! You are not going to change your opinion and I am going to keep an open mind. Shall we move on now?

[G-SPOTs Lost]

The reason they have failed or failing is the recession, if they had had 2 to 3 years runup to the market we had in late 2006 / 2007. Then theres a chance just a chance that it might have worked.

Reflecting over 30 odd years in the industry doesn't deserve the kudos it sounds like it does unfortunately, aircraft change, industries change, with 30% of the corporation tax revenue coming from the financial sector, the advent of online searching for suppliers...

The lower cost end of the market will bring in new money and new business so in some ways by using mustangs, Blink were better equipped than anybody else including centreline to expand a market with new custom. People spouting off that the market will only ever be one size is showing no memory of recent pre recession times gone by. My old Excel sold for more in 2007 than we paid for it in 2001 - you telling me there was no new money about then??

Without sounding like a suited powerpoint presenter, in a better market guided by somebody with a straight bat and a bit of vision, they might have made it run true to the business plan in which case when they swapped to Phenom 100s added Excels and Phenom 300's to the fleet and expanded into Europe you traditional operators would have been in trouble without doubt.

The reason why I say this is your dependence on brokers, for its them in truth Im worried for. They'll no doubt argue about getting the right aircraft for the right price but there may be a couple of major broker players in 20 years but the rest will lack the will or financial resources to commit to technologies that havent been created yet, where will your business come from then?

Rather than sit back and sound off with a "told you so attitude", you might consider the recession your friend, Blinks management did traditional operators a huge favour....me.... I think you've had a narrow escape...

[learjet50]

Anything but a cartel

We had to fight for every job with other operators it was not handed to us o plate.

The Brokers made sure of that so you are talking rubbish when you mention the word Cartel

We were operating contracts for some big companies which included some Goverment ran contracts and believe me they wanted to know where every penny went.

your tital says it all CJBoy Newish A/C Newish Poster

And before you say yes I Know i cant spell


Back to me chickens

[flynowpaylater]

The bottom line is that Blinks strategy from the outset was based on bucking the market by cutting out brokers. They made claims of being Europes first A to B air taxi company and complete b&llocks like that and thought they would take over the world. By doing that, they set themselves up for a very hard fall as and when it doesn't quite got to plan.

Brokers don't feel inclined to support them in their hour of need (why should they?), nor do other operators (why should they?). They seem to have alienated themselves from the rest of the market and this, coupled with the luke warm response to the Mustang as a product will probably sound the death knell ultimately.

Those who seem to support their cause based on the jobs they create should perhaps think about the effect, both long and short term, and what the impact on the market has actual been. By funding their low rates with start up capital (and rather a lot of it), they have effectively lowered the bar. If everyone else has to lower rates to compete, then ultimately this drives down salaries and reduces investment in infrastructure improvements in more established operators.

The same punters will be there, and will still book charters, but at realisitc rates. That might just mean that operator paying decent salaries, aiding pilots for type ratings and generally raising the bar for both employee and client alike.

I'm sure that the whole blink story will make a great dissertation for future business studies graduates at Harvard one day. Apply the swiss cheese model to Blink and you'll see plenty of holes lining up.

FNPL

[hawker750]

Proceeding Outbound

Are you naturally obnoxious or do you have to work at it?

[North of the Field]

Hi Guys,

Been following this thread for the last couple of weeks (I'm low hours trying to get my first job and applied to Blink when they were advertising (albeit briefly) earlier this year).

Obviously the main topic of conversation recently centres around Blink's demise. However I was just wondering if this has actually happened or is it all speculation? I've googled it, as well as looking on Blink's website and there's absolutely no mention of it.

Just curious.

[densityaltitude]

Saw Blink advertising for Ops staff on Aviation Jobs site dated 18th April 2011 to be based at EGLK.

[proceeding outbound]

Yes I am. As are you telling me "I have no clue" just because my opinion is different to yours!

I honestly believe you can create new markets or expand existing ones. Just because Blink didnt get it right doesnt mean it cant be done. The current market will never expand as long as we sit and wait for the phone to ring (broker). Just because you have done that for the last 30 years doesnt mean its the best way to do it.

If you look back at aviation history it is noticeable that aviation was only for the elite in the early years but over time the market was expanded (something you and Phil claim cant be done). Maybe Blink are just trying to do it too quickly.

And yes, the Air Taxi model is not genius, just a variation on a standard charter company but maybe the variation required to expand the market.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings but it was obvious you would not consider alternate ideas and I was therefore wasting my time with sensible replies.

[lisa humphries]

Gerry - Malcolm and I just read your post and totally agree :)

[Martin Barnes]

This is turning into an interesting thread in which I feel the brokers are being cast as the bad guys,

This business needs brokers, as the cost of a strong presence on the internet and click through costs cannot be justified by a company offering just a one type product such as the C510 or indeed a fleet of CJs !!

our company has a small percentage of direct customers but by far our best customers are the brokers who are working hard to deliver the best solution for their customers on a trip by trip basis in the face of strong competition.

In addition they carry the credit risk and monitor the performance of the operator to ensure the quality delivered meets customer expectations.

a typical clients travel needs may require a king air, CJ2 or a G5 dependant on the distance and load of the the day.

We will take no pleasure in BLINKS possible demise and anyway the other very good C510 operators like LEA will fill the gap.

Rest assured if the Blink dream goes south we will have a new kid on the block within days to take their place,

With respect to my old friend Jerry, the business has changed beyond recognition since you where a player buddy, it was indeed a gentle business in the day, but never the less it gets more exiting as the years roll by.

Our company has been the starting point for hundreds of pilot careers, which is one of the major joys of my time is this business.

So guys be nice to each other and stop talking a load of tosh.

I do not post under a stupid alias so you know who I am.

[Martin Barnes]

Hi Lisa

not much on telly tonight !!!

[proceeding outbound]

I dont think anybody here is accusing brokers of being bad guys. Just like low cost airlines have bypassed travel agents, in this modern day of communications business jet travelers will no doubt slowly move to self booking, especially in these economic times. All it needs is for someone to write a good smartphone APP.

If I were to point out an industry bad guy I could point at many of the handling agents who's charges are astronomical. Then maybe catering companies!:ok:

[Phil Brockwell]

Is there an assumption that existing Brokers are not creating / cashing in on / chasing new markets - how many times a month do we fly passengers on their first flight only to see them regularly thereafter?

Proceding outbound - People have tried with the website / smartphone app. The problem there is that (apart from Blink) the operators don't want it, and the brokers don't want it. Without the support of one, if not both, it won't work. Privatefly are giving it a bloody good go, and whilst their business is greatly appreciated, the level of enquiries is still really quite low, and the fix rates lower.

Guys, we work in a highly skilled Industry - I wouldn't try and run a company in an industry that I had no experience in, we are not in the asset management business, we are in the compliance / customer service / asset management and logistics business - and you can't learn that lot at harvard!

[flynowpaylater]

Lots of opinion on here.

Will Blink still be operating in 6 months time?

[Phil Brockwell]

Flynow,

I think they will, the busy months are starting now, more positive cashflow transactions, and more hours to be had. Certainly they have direct market penetration in The City, that market seems to be bubbling away, and whilst by no means bouyant, it's far better than last year and suited quite well to the airframe they are operating. If your question was 12 months I'd be more reserved in my opinion.

PB

[topjetgeezer]

Been following the posts and some very interesting points been made, but the one really bizarre thing that Blink seem to have done is get rid of staff, including pilots just before the busy period. In anyone's book that restricts your ability to make money. So then comes the question why would a company do such a bizarre thing? Is it very poor management or is there another reason? Time will tell.

[Phil Brockwell]

Topjetgeezer -

Crew and staff are bloody expensive - if margins are going to remain this tight for a while, sweat the asset for as little overhead as you can whilst retaining quality - Blink have lost some of the Brokers faith, so will have a relatively high marketing and customer services overhead (much higher than just looking after the brokers who do this for you).

Poor management? It could be the complete opposite - revenues and speed of growth will be fairly well documented withing those in the know at Blink - adjusting your overhead to generate break even / profit from what is on the table shows good management to me.

PB

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Proceding outbound - People have tried with the website / smartphone app. The problem there is that (apart from Blink) the operators don't want it, and the brokers don't want it. Without the support of one, if not both, it won't work. Privatefly are giving it a bloody good go, and whilst their business is greatly appreciated, the level of enquiries is still really quite low, and the fix rates lower.

Guys, we work in a highly skilled Industry - I wouldn't try and run a company in an industry that I had no experience in, we are not in the asset management business, we are in the compliance / customer service / asset management and logistics business - and you can't learn that lot at harvard!

Phil

We live in changing times, whatever cliche You want to use "diversify or die" or any other suitable saying really applies here

This Market is due a shakeup aided by technology, that technology hasn't been dreamt up yet but when it does, the brokers some would say unfortunately will end up by the side of the road...in the current arrangement of client/broker/operator two can live without the other one and one in essence is surplus.

Your example above quoting compliance logistics and customer service has direct parallels with advertising, 12 years ago nobody had heard of google now they siphon 22 Billion dollars of revenue from that Market their way.

In 20 years maybe less corporate diaries will be in the ether, maybe they'll integrate with a forward thinking air taxi company, with a window for departure allowing plane share with others maybe it WILL be like jumping on a bus with the aircraft through some clever algorithm being in the right place at the right time

Technology will dictate the Market, anybody with google analytics knows the information available, add in 10 years of development and technology and the Market will change beyond recognition, and guess what....they ARE teaching this at Harvard right now

Your years of experience which count for much now, may not help you adapt going forward.

Compare a mobile from 1991 to an Iphone4 and tell me you'll be operating in the same way in 5-10 years

[His dudeness]

Hmm, G-SPOT, I really dunno wether your right or not, but an airplane flies from A to B in a certain mount of time. Given the distance and the current ATC system, it does not matter (really) if you fly a CX or a 'tang in middle Europe...so the 'thing' sold stays about the same. If no one invents 'beaming', it will stay the same for quite a while methinks...

On a 1990 Motorola "Bone" one could talk and probably store 10 numbers, but that was it.
Today I can steer a quadcopter model with the iPhone, as a side effect one can use the iPhone to talk to other persons, but when I look at my youthful cocaptain, I wonder wether if he could live without his iPhone....gps car navigation, browser, skypefon, gamepad, schedule viewer etcetctec.

That is something completely different than a telephone.

Operating will change (acass, one sky etc), but flying and selling these flights will essentially stay the same. Maybe I´m wrong, time will tell.

[Phil Brockwell]

G-SPOTS

"that technology hasn't been dreamt up yet "

And you think that we will reject it when it comes? 22 years ago we used appropriate methods (not Google) now we all use Google - and email, and Linkedin and Avinode, and Privatefly etc etc etc.

You think we all sit here with a Globe and a piece of string?

If the brokers are real or virtual we will do our job of arriving on time, departing on time with robust scheduling, good crews, etc etc.

Technology may well come around that makes us more efficient from an aircraft positioning perspective and a market penetration perspective - but that's just 25% of the job - you still have to operate the damn things.

Phil

[topjetgeezer]

Hi PB

I totally see what you're saying and agree with the analysis in some respects, but if the company have overhead for 5 or 6 planes and can only crew 3 taking into account sickness and holiday and pilot fatigue and current workforce numbers etc then when they get offered that job from the brokers, then they have to turn it down and hence lose revenue which would have gone towards paying for the electricity bill etc.
So essentially what I'm saying is they've done as our Prime Minister and cut too deep and too soon.
If they off loaded their fleet and only had 3 aircraft and moved to a porta cabin then yes it would make sense but they still have 5 6 or 7 aircraft without the actual ability to fly them.

[flynowpaylater]

G-SPOT - some good examples there, but they all relate to the masses, ie mobile phones, google etc...In our industry you can look at the impact of the lo co as a prime example of how the agent / broker has been excluded....doesn't mean the death of the travel agent. In the same way that Estate Agents still exsist and probably still handle 90% of house sales in the UK despite the internet revolution. (and that everyone hates them!)

Our sector of the industry is specialist. It requires a multi facated approach involving many factors that Joe Public or even Joe's bosses don't even know exsist or understand. Its not a standard product like selling seats on a lo co, a mobile phone etc....

The IT revolution has aided both brokers and operators to maximise their potential and has made the bizjet market fluid, more efficient commercially and affordable.

By your rationale, the punters will be cutting out the operators in 20 years time and going straight to Cessna to hire a CJ. I don't think Ebay will be entering the charter market just yet!

[flynowpaylater]

You think we all sit here with a Globe and a piece of string?




We've ditched that system yonks ago, and moved on to "MAP". The main advantage of MAP is that it's compatible with RULER.

[tommoutrie]

is it a coincidence that

Martin Barnes Phil Brockwell

is an anagram of

Help Arse Rim Blink Clown Brat?

the clues are out there people..

[Phil Brockwell]

Or that Thomas Moutrie is an anagram The Timorous Man or something with Tit in it.

And Phil Brockwell is Bowl Prick Hell

[tommoutrie]

man we need to get out more..

Curry?

[potatowings]

we are in the compliance / customer service / asset management and logistics business - and you can't learn that lot at harvard!

:eek: Well then there's a lot of people wasting a lot of money studying at what we all thought was [one of] the best business school[s] in the world.

They should be at the Brockwell School of Business running some biz jets instead.

[tommoutrie]

Those that can, do
Those that can't, teach

I strongly suspect that Day one, Lesson one at Harvard is "dont bother trying to make money with little planes because its really really tough"

[Phil Brockwell]

Spudflaps -

I'm not rubbishing the school, just pointing out that an MBA from Harvard and a school project for Wallmart does not give you the necessary to run an operation with no experience (IMHO of course).

Look, I'm not telling anyone how to run their business, just giving my observations. And to be honnest no-one is doing a particularly good job at proving me wrong on this one.

Have a good long weekend everyone - let's all go home and worry about things far more important.

PB

[proceeding outbound]

What about Globeair? They have at least 7 Mustangs with another 3 or 4 coming on-line soon if not already on-line. They seem to be making a go of the air-taxi business model.

Over to you Phil.

Go home! Stuck in a hotel again:cool:.

[Phil Brockwell]

Globeair,

Have no idea what their prices, utilisation or staff levels are, so couldn't possibly comment of how they are likely to be doing.

Air taxi model - which revision, the dayjet one, the originial blink 45 aircraft doing 1300 hrs a year each or the new 7 aircraft flying somewhere under 400hrs? Or are they simply using aircraft to fly on-demand from A to B?

At the end of the day we all sell flights on light jet aircraft - why is using one type of aircraft charter and another type air-taxi? Do I not run an Air-taxi company (profitably?)

Phil

[Martin Barnes]

tom

you are one sad SOB

xxxxxx

[Phil Brockwell]

Moving swiftly back on track -

How Much Does It Cost | Blink Club | Blink (http://www.flyblink.com/ways/blink-club/how-much-does-it-cost)

Seems pricey to me with the monthly management cost - how does it compare to the likes of Netjets et al

PB

[hawker750]

If the hourly rate quoted is for occupied flight hour a la Net jets then it is a great deal. If it is based on a return trip basis then there is little point in anyone shelling out cash for a share because when depreciation and cost of money is put in the equation the rate appears to be highe than straight charter. The ad seems a bit vague on this point

[Phil Brockwell]

I assume the hourly is from base / to base.
It was the £22k per month that raised my eyebrows.

Phil

[Globally Challenged]

Isn't one of the key benefits with NetJets the financial backing of Berkshire Hathaway (with a better credit rating than several EU countries) - would seem quite risky to buy an upfront package with such a small company.

[hawker750]

If the aircraft are financed they will have great difficulty in selling part shares. Bankers do not like this, something about registering mortgages with more than one peson having beneficial ownership. I tried to syndicate an aircraft and put it on finance with no luck, trouble is I do not have Warren Bufett's credit rating, well not quite.

[flynowpaylater]

I'm with Phil...£22k pcm management..wow..good business if you can get get it. What's the industry norm for a management fee on AOC?

[G-SPOTs Lost]

I think its the cost of doing business at EGLF and Sim training

Capt & FO £95k
Plus NI/Pension/LOL/Healthcare @ 28% -£26K
Full Service in the Sim x 2 £30K
Hangarage at EGLF £30k
Maintenance for 600 Hours at say £60 per hour - £36K
Insurance £25K for commercial work

Doesnt leave much left over for management fees and to pay the 14 postholders and management/ops staff it needs to keep a modern AOC running, in fact I dont know how they do it for the money.

[Phil Brockwell]

G-SPOTS,

Unfortunately we work in aviation - the correlation between cost and revenue is often an odd calculation - at the end of the day it still needs to be competitive to other options available.


In your calculations the management fee is fairly cost effective - but the hourly rate very high as it should include Mx, Insurance, parking at BBS (where the aircraft appear to be based.)

PB

[G-SPOTs Lost]

the correlation between cost and revenue is often an odd calculation

Ooh you sound like a Harvard graduate Phil.....you got a suit on today?

[Phil Brockwell]

Suit me - not guilty M'lud

[learjet50]

Phil may not be a Harvard Graduate but I would trust both Phil and Martin Barnes with my money (If I Had any)

They have both been in this business for many years and they both are very open with there facts and figures

(NO I am not there Love Child) but have known and trusted them for a fair few years


Regards

Gerry (Ex NEA)

PS DAD(Martin B ) Not had me spends this month

[tommoutrie]

the fact that you don't have any money but would trust Martin and Phil with any money you did have may be linked..

[Phil Brockwell]

Tom,

Fair point, well made. Anyone else who would trust me with their money, please PM me with the answers to the following qualification questions.

1. The amount you have
a) Lots
b) None
c) None, but Daddy has and the house has a fair bit of equity in it.

2. Would your freinds describe you as
a) Savvy
b) Gullible
c) Charitable
d) A fence monkey

3.) Have you ever considered investing in any of the following.
a) Polly Peck
b) European Business Jets
c) Any other revolutionary business plan for the charter of jets / single engine turbines (yes, that one was me|) etc
d) Other.... which may include JetBird, Blink, Day Jet etc.

Answers on the back of a blank signed cheque please.

PB

[potatowings]

Pride comes before a fall :=

[Phil Brockwell]

Spudflaps -

Not more falls, please, had many of those as you can imagine.

PB

[twinjetter]

Phil

Honoured that EBJ has it's own special mention; but Christ, we had to carry Moutrie with us all the way. He kept suggesting "ideas" and trying to make things "better". We never even had a fighting chance!

Hi Tom, hope you're well mate! - Steve F

[Phil Brockwell]

Steve,

I had heard the collapse was down to Moutrie -

Phil

[topjetgeezer]

Was at Ebace last week and the brokers really collectively don't like this firm. They are not going to put any work their way.
*

[topjetgeezer]

Is it worth combining these threads?

[LGW Vulture]

Nope, someone's taken the ball home again......! :rolleyes:

[topjetgeezer]

I gleaned from the other locked post on Blink and wondered if it was possible to use staff travel from one company as a business tool for another? Is it like an interline agreement of some sort?

[PPRuNe Pop]

There have been one or two posts that come close to the border of libel.

PPRuNe's policy on this is: If you make a statement that is anyway considered contentious and might cause a named name or named company to look to their position as far any possible action against PPRuNe is concerned. It is a requirement that the person making the post will required to provide PPRuNe with their private details such as name and address, email etc. and would therefore be liable for their own costs in any litigation.

Please therefore, be very careful that you do not make comments that can damage both PPRuNe and yourself.

[challengerboy]

Libel is a published false statement that is damaging to a reputation. If what is written is true then it's not libel. I saw what I saw and several people heard in a communal area what they heard. I've also heard a lot more in the Farnborough crew room on other subjects so I will stand by what I've written.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Say what you like..... just pass your real name address and a contact number on to the people who run the site, so that they can pass it on.

Not an unreasonable request if you're sure of your facts, not having a go in any way.