QF Depressurization [Archive]

Mud Skipper

24th Jan 2011, 23:00

Sounds like it happend on the start of descent. Was it a classic perhaps?
The old HP bleed valve blocked unnoticed and then the other HP bleed falling over. Thrust up a little, LP's pick up the slack, problem solved, descent normal-ish, passengers non the wiser, never trained but thats what experience does for you but who needs experience now days. Don't know if this problem persisted on the 800's.:rolleyes:

Guess we'll hear if it was something more serious.

All safe - all's well.:D

Comoman

24th Jan 2011, 23:21

"Was it a classic perhaps?"

Radio reporting it as a 737-400. No guarantee that's correct though!

limelight

24th Jan 2011, 23:45

It was indeed a classic, one AC pack failed at cruise, and the other one the way down, hence the rubber jungle came down. Sitting on the pad at Tulla maint now.

All over on this one, move on.

Anthill

24th Jan 2011, 23:57

It sounds like the crew did a fine job. If the pax were in such a panic, why did they still have time to video everything and take photos? I cant wait for the Facebook shots..

I love the blond journo : " Qantas call this a...,a.. Decomperawesurisation"!!

Too much..:yuk:

telster

25th Jan 2011, 00:16

Media here (Oz) seem to be working the line that the crew didn't give the passengers much info. Like one of them complaining that it was well into the descent before the pilot came on the PA... Guess it didn't occur to them that he might have been busy.

Love the comment from another that when the masks came down, nobody told them what to do, they didn't know whether to put the mask on, or whether it was just a mistake....:ugh:

Critical Reynolds No

25th Jan 2011, 00:19

Too busy reading and talking while the safety brief is on.

flitegirl

25th Jan 2011, 00:25

Anthill I laughed at that too. The journo sounds almost as stupid as the passengers who didn't know whether to put the masks on or not.....

"um.... is this.... like..... real or not? I remember something about oxygen masks before we took off, but.... um....I might just....like....wait for someone to tell me what's going on"

Oxidant

25th Jan 2011, 00:29

Here is one of the links mentioned....

Qantas passenger jet drops 26,000 feet (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8201502/qantas-passenger-jet-drops-26000-feet)

To miss-quote someone famous.. "& they allow them to breed?!":ugh:

C441

25th Jan 2011, 01:20

I don't think I would be categorising an explosive decompression as a 'another' mid air incident

Neither would I, but this one wasn't.

PammyAnderson

25th Jan 2011, 01:51

Dont think anyone has suggested the crew has done anything wrong.

But it is amazing how many people here jump to the "Yawns" and "tis no big deal" thing. (again)
I can tell you for most people in the public it is a very big deal. And very scary for them if they experience it. They dont care if it is rapid slow or even managed well by the pilots. All they care about is it happened!

The VERY big deal here, is the continuing perception of another qantas plane in another incident. The qantas image of a safe airline is taking a serious beating.
(Justified or not)
At some stage the management will have to start looking at the hard reasons for this.
People have a choice of airlines and they wont spend their dollars on airlines that are even perceived as unsafe.

1a sound asleep

25th Jan 2011, 02:05

Maybe if pax watched the safety briefing they would know to put masks on and breath normally and that it would be normal for the a/c to descend to 10,000 feet. Scarey, maybe but not the world's biggest deal.

Now anybody know the reg? I am fearing its another case of 20+ year old a/c syndrome here if it was a 734

newsensation

25th Jan 2011, 02:20

I would suggest a simple IQ test be conducted prior to being able to purchase a ticket might be in order but then some of our LLC might go broke :rolleyes:

PyroTek

25th Jan 2011, 02:24

Mid Air incident, nobody hurt, job well done. Let's now leave it to QF/ATSB to work out what happened and not become armchair experts as usual?:ok:

Jabawocky

25th Jan 2011, 02:27

Mid Air incident, nobody hurt, job well done. Let's now leave it to QF/ATSB to work out what happened and not become armchair experts as usual?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

WOT .... and spoil the fun?:=

As for morons not knowing if it was for real or a mistake..... they should have their supply removed. They are O2 thieves.

Perhaps airlines should start requiring you as a pax to pay for and complete a cabin safety course once every two years or similar. Sounds like a great business to be in :).

Heck, most industrial sites like mines, power stations and factories, construction sites, they all require a safety induction and they are only valid for 3/6/12 months depending on the site and the level required for you to enter their workplace.

PyroTek

25th Jan 2011, 02:32

What about a premium for O2 supply in your seat? Say, $10 for an hour's worth.

Gas Bags

25th Jan 2011, 02:34

Something is rotten down at the big Q. So many incidents, one hot on the heels of the other, can no longer be deemed as having a bad run.

Surely the senior management down there must be noticing this trend???

airtags

25th Jan 2011, 02:41

Maybe given the pax comments it would be worth evaluating the new safety demo video - saw it the other day going to Perth and the info is all over the place.

One of the CC told me they are not happy with it and it misses some detail such as exit lights (I'll have to watch it again to check)

Was glad however that John Travolta no longer has Q insignias on his uniform though - hate to think that they might mistake me for him.....!!!!!!!!!!!!

AT :E

The Ch 9 reporter (Chloe?? Somebody??) did seem more rattled than the pax

Cleared Visual

25th Jan 2011, 03:45

"Live" footage on tv was a classic. Eyebrow windows and a VH-TJ* rego... How old are these aircraft now? Remember flying on the mid 1990s.

Mach2point7

25th Jan 2011, 03:51

ALAEA Fed Sec

25th Jan 2011, 03:57

Gas Bags - AJ may not be loved by all on this forum. However, he is a very clever mathematician, by profession, and must be thinking about this issue in terms of probability theory. If he is not - he should be.

The probability of getting out of the place before the big one with as much loot as Uncle Geoff?

How many times does Olivia have to explain that each event is just an isolated incident?

JustJoinedToSearch

25th Jan 2011, 04:14

I just heard someone from QF (think it was Olivia) on the radio say something along the lines of "The airconditioning failed and the aircarft lost pressure, it made a rapid descent from 35,000 to 10,000 which took about 5 mins. At 14,000ft the oxygen masks automatically deployed as a safety feature etc."

Now I only have a basic understanding of pressurisation (sp?) from CPL systems, but having a decompression at FL350 and not having oxygen masks deploy untill FL140 seems a tad redundant to me.

I imagine what actually happens is that the masks deploy at a cabin altitude of 14,000 and so actually deployed with the aircraft either at or near FL350 following decompression.

My general point is how do we expect the media to get anything even half right if the people making statements from the actual airline involved can't give a simple, correct description of the event?

(If for some reason the masks actually deploy for some reason descending through FL140 this post can be ignored.)

P.S. I am aware that posting is in direct contradiction to my username.

JJTS

beaver_rotate

25th Jan 2011, 04:37

Remember, AJ is from Aer Lingus and I can't find the quote, but he was quoted when working there that "any publicity is good publicity" :ok::ok:

ozaggie

25th Jan 2011, 04:52

I'm with Jaba, this is great fun. Love the way you silly buggers bounce off each other.
OA

TSIO540

25th Jan 2011, 05:06

According to Ninemsn, this was a "De-compressurisation" with passengers noting that the cabin crew were "holding their noses" and 'panicing'.... which would have nothing to do with avoiding barotrauma

Mr. Hat

25th Jan 2011, 05:09

I just watched the 9 news report off ninemsn.

When are journalists in this country going to speak to someone that has even the remotest idea (no not GT..) before coming up with their concocted rubbish stories. Its amateur hour on their best day with their A game.:ugh:

Passengers that had no idea why the masks had fallen.. Well they need to have a hard look in the mirror and check if their ears and eyes are painted on. If so need to speak with their parents promptly. The safety demo isn't some sort of Jerry Seinfeld stand comedy up routine and neither are the safety cards in the front of the seat pockets.:mad:

Is it just me is the average person getting dumber and dumber. :yuk:

Good job to those in pointy end.:D

Tee Emm

25th Jan 2011, 05:39

Oh dear, Yawn.

Non Normal situation, crew recovered and landed without incident.

So where's the problem??

I'll tell you "where's the problem" from the passengers' point of view. Aircraft goes into high speed high rate of descent dive along with noise of typical depressurisation, with air condensing in the cabin and a rubber jungle dropping on passenger noggins and flight attendants probably shouting over the PA unintelligble instructions.

Alarmed passengers wonder what the hell is going on and ask the flight attendants who reply "Where's the problem??"

You must be joking...:mad:

Jabawocky

25th Jan 2011, 05:42

Is it just me is the average person getting dumber and dumber. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Yup.......you can blame political correctness OH&S and a few other methodologies of modern society for that :ugh:

On Guard

25th Jan 2011, 05:53

Qantas must be keeping the ATSB in full time employment for the next few years at this rate. Another failure at SYD last week or so. Latest Flight Safety Mag has ATSB SFO failure, Explosive decomp., A380 EF, and 1 more I think.

greenslopes

25th Jan 2011, 06:07

If this site was indeed for professional pilots to air their concerns (or rumours) and not uneducated then the only discussion would be, "did the crew conduct the non-normal as prescribed and if not why'? Seems here the crew(as judged by outcome) did a commendable job.
To those who are not professional pilots and think there is a problem do some research and determine the efficacy/reliability of pressurisation systems in aircraft. They are extremely reliable but not flawless, occasionally the system will fail and then good training and competent crew should ensure a succesful outcome....... that by the way is what we have seen today.
Before you reach for the keyboard and rant spend a minute and reach a considered opinion.
Oh, and I don't operate Qf aircraft(just so bias can be ruled out).

bankrunner

25th Jan 2011, 06:08

The aircraft involved was VH-TJH.

Your Steak Is Ready

25th Jan 2011, 06:52

The one I like the best is the Blond on the 9 News stating that as soon as the aircraft was stable at 10, 000' , "I called home and let me friends know that I was alright". (please forgive for lack of Bogan typing).

Now is the Airline or C@#sA going to chase her for breach of use of a mobile device, or will they say it was due duress?

pcx

25th Jan 2011, 06:57

While not commenting on the cause of this incident, does anyone know what the rate of cabin climb should be with the failure or switching off of all bleeds.

qf 1

25th Jan 2011, 06:58

for all you heros out there,i challange u to say you would have no problems to sit on a flight that has just gone through that sequence of events,i as a former LAME would not, nor would i be happy for any of my family too.QANTAS is a air disaster waitting to happen.

Mr. Hat

25th Jan 2011, 07:03

Yup.......you can blame political correctness OH&S and a few other methodologies of modern society for that

I say bring back the hard line Jaba. This country is losing the plot and fast!

As for QF maintenance well I don't know what the stats are but I do know that the travelling public expect lower and lower fares, perfect service with 100% safety all the time. Somethings gotta give eventually!

Time for some reform in this industry.

Qantas 787

25th Jan 2011, 07:14

I am getting sick of commenting on the media's 'reporting' of anything related to aviation. It is getting beyond a joke - why don't they report on every single incident that happens everyday for perspective? They will soon realise how good and safe our industry is. Well done again to the crew.

And the passenger who said 'I didn't know whether to put on the mask' - there is a reason they play that safety video on every flight. It helps if you actually pay attention to it.

Mind you, some of the passengers seemed to be happy to take photos :rolleyes:. Funny how they had time to do that.

7378FE

25th Jan 2011, 07:29

Tick,Tock.....Tick Tock

Who is going to get serious with QANTAS safety first, QF management or CASA. :hmm:

Easter is not that far away, the hot cross buns are already in the stores. :E

The The

25th Jan 2011, 07:32

I can somewhat understand why some passengers failed to know whether to put on the masks or not.

Movies and shows like air crash investigation lead us to believe a decompression to be associated with an explosion and a gaping hole in the fuselage, things flying about the cabin, even the cabin filled with smoke, the plane going down vertically, passengers pressed to their seats.

With the masks just dropping and a descent around the normal time of descent, it is easy to see why some passengers were not sure, even if they had watched the demo.

I think the demo needs to stress that no matter what, if the masks drop, put them on, as signs of a decompression may not be obvious to passengers.

ALAEA Fed Sec

25th Jan 2011, 07:46

Doesn't an automatic announcement play when they drop telling people to put masks on? Know there is on the aircraft I'm licenced on.

Bird On

25th Jan 2011, 08:09

Manual or Automatic mask deployment? Be interesting to eventually see how high the cabin got and what its leak rate was.

denabol

25th Jan 2011, 08:12

I read the stories and watched the TV tonight and thought how pathetic the reports were.

As usual, I think Crikey came up with something pretty sharp .

A cabin decompression on Qantas flight QF670 between Adelaide and Melbourne this morning pushed the terrorist attack at Moscow’s Domodedovo Airport off the top of this morning’s radio bulletins. This is not a great reflection on news values in the Australian media.
In Moscow in an insecure part of an airport, the arrivals hall, a suicide bomber has killed at least 35 people and injured more than 150.
But the news priority locally is a 737 with 99 passengers on board that lost cabin pressure. The Qantas jet did descend steeply, as per the standard operating procedures for such an event, to 10,000 feet (just over 3000 metres) while oxygen masks dropped, and the jet landed at Tullamarine Airport 30 minutes later.
No emergency services were required. QF67 was met by reporters, not ambulances.
The real story is that at Tullamarine, and almost every other major airport in the world, the arrivals areas are unsecured, as are most places in life worldwide where people gather.
That is the overarching evil of the Domodedovo attack. It highlights the impossibility of securing places where the public freely gathers.
If airports such as those in Australia tried to seal off the arrivals halls, the target simply moves 100 metres, maybe 200, to an underground train platform or bus station, or to a car park.

Undercover Brother

25th Jan 2011, 09:23

Something not to dissimilar to this happened over NSW only a month or so ago, with another operator, never even made the news....

Jack Ranga

25th Jan 2011, 09:49

And an A320 engine shutdown on takeoff and return to land about a month ago, also didn't make the news.

Ngineer

25th Jan 2011, 10:09

Watched the channel 9 news with some bird going thru all the incidents that have happened over the past couple of years. What a complete joke and pathetic beat-up. I could have at least thought of a dozen more straight of my head.

mrdeux

25th Jan 2011, 10:22

While not commenting on the cause of this incident, does anyone know what the rate of cabin climb should be with the failure or switching off of all bleeds.

Guess it would depend upon how leaky it was. At a guess, I'd place it at one to two thousand feet per minute at high altitude. Not a big number anyway.

t_cas

25th Jan 2011, 11:13

I do not think it would be fair to say that it was just another day at the office for the crew. Although to outcome looks to be good. The stress levels on the crew will undoubtedly be very high. This is what we train for. What we do not train for is the management of the post incident stress. Not just the incident itself, but the plethora of processes that inevitably follow. This is a non normal and was a life threatening situation that was handled well enough to have a positive outcome. Well done I say. I hope they get back on the horse soon.

Jabawocky

25th Jan 2011, 11:37

Advert on tv tonight....... Ch9 News, news gathering you can trust.

Yeah right!!:rolleyes:

GW_04

25th Jan 2011, 11:44

"Life threatening, or get back on the horse aye". I somehow doubt this event was even close to life threatening. It was not an explosive decompression. Lets wait until the real story comes out until making gross over exaggerations like that!

zoics88

25th Jan 2011, 14:18

no mention, that i've seen in media or this forum, of the B738 (Geelong) that's been sitting on the ground at Broome for the last 5 days after a lighting strike on approach put a dozen or so holes in the skin...

but that's how we do it in the rugged NW..

tropical low is about to be declared TC Bianca and the surf will be pumping 2morro..
Happy Oz Day to all

cheers
Z

SOPS

25th Jan 2011, 14:45

Just heard the QF spoke lady person on the radio saying "there was a short cicuit in the A/C system" ???

On a serious note..I had about 10 years ago a similar thing in a 737 300..lost one pack in cruise..and the other then tripped off in descent (at 15000 feet luckily)..maybe its a "classic" problem..one pack cant handle the load?

Sunfish

25th Jan 2011, 17:49

You know the only thing predictable about these incidents?

So called "Professional Pilots" on Pprune rubbishing the media's attempts to describe what happened in laymen's terms as well as the reporting of the understandable but unfounded fears of the passengers involved.

I can hardly wait to hear your "professional' opinions when there is an emergency evacuation and people get injured on the slides.

Sunfish

25th Jan 2011, 17:53

Sops:

On a serious note..I had about 10 years ago a similar thing in a 737 300..lost one pack in cruise..and the other then tripped off in descent (at 15000 feet luckily)..maybe its a "classic" problem..one pack cant handle the load?

I would have thought that the pressure differences (and load) across pack components would have been decreasing on descent, even with an intelligent pressurisation controller making the cabin "descend" a little quicker than the aircraft. Wouldn't it be more likely to fail on climb?

unionist1974

25th Jan 2011, 19:47

arn't the 737s maintained in Tulla by QF , so who is the finger going to be pointed at . Quick to point it at others eg overseas facilities . All quiet so far , wait with interest .

ALAEA Fed Sec

25th Jan 2011, 20:17

It has been 2800 flt hours since its last heavy check in Tulla. Hardly think that could be the problem.

ampclamp

25th Jan 2011, 22:29

thanks for that fed sec.
unionist, most 737 heavy is done in Melbourne but some has also been done OS with mixed results.
Components break down, ducts split , ducts overheat, bleeds fail.
I had a quick look at the aviation herald site and saw a few pressurisation difficulties without looking too hard.
I am more concerned with the RR engine problem.

Mr. Hat

25th Jan 2011, 22:47

So called "Professional Pilots" on PPRuNe rubbishing the media's attempts to describe what happened in laymen's terms as well as the reporting of the understandable but unfounded fears of the passengers involved.

So because I or others criticise the media report we're no longer professional pilots. Thats a strange correlation. Will this be part of my next sim session?

Perhaps I need to lower my expectations. God, who would think a phone call to someone in the know would be such a massive ask. Afterall they are broadcasting to the entire population.

Decompressurisation...(even spell check gets confused by that one).

Jetstarpilot

25th Jan 2011, 23:50

Zoics88 said

no mention, that i've seen in media or this forum, of the B738 (Geelong) that's been sitting on the ground at Broome for the last 5 days after a lighting strike on approach put a dozen or so holes in the skin...

Try this link (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/lightning-strikes-qantas-plane-20110124-1a2ej.html) Bro, "your bad".

but that's how we do it in the rugged NW..

What a bunch of heroes:rolleyes: I heard there is a lot of inexperience over in the rugged NW. Hopefully no cowboy culture developing. What is holding fuel used for again?:ugh:

Maybe the QANTAS group should deploy some experienced crew from the Jetstar arm to reduce these type of avoidable and expensive incidents.

Normasars

26th Jan 2011, 00:21

Jetstar Pirate,

Good wind up, go fishing somewhere else.

IMHO,

The rate and scale of these "incidents" within the QF Group needs to be compared to like sized carriers around the world. For instance, IIRC, QF Group operate @ 210 frames; compare the incident rate on the different fleets to those of like sized operators and then draw an informed conclusion based on the data/FACTS. If SQ/CX-KA/TG etc, and even US and European carriers of approximately the same size are experiencing the same ratio of events as QF, then make this public knowledge and try to remove the blow torch from QF. However, if on the contrary QF incident rates are far more frequent, then therein lies an inherent and sinister problem. Facts and only facts are required here. Not speculation and sensationalism. Compare apples and apples.
Like it or not, QF is a national icon, and therefore ANY significant event will always make the media and right now, QF is under the microscope(and IMHO justifiably so). And as for comments on here that an emergency descent is just another day at the office, get real. Any Phase 1/ recall item, whatever you may call it, is an emergency situation and not just another day.

Hempy

26th Jan 2011, 03:38

Tick,Tock.....Tick Tock

Who is going to get serious with QANTAS safety first, QF management or CASA. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

Easter is not that far away, the hot cross buns are already in the stores. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

I'm guessing this a reference to CASA and Ansett in 2001...well, I'm pretty sure CASA learned then that it doesn't pay to look too deeply at maintenance issues in the majors. Too much proverbial hitting the fan. No..it'll either be QF management or a hull loss, whichever comes first.