Are Flying School's Starting To Pick-Up Too?

[JB007]

Hello,

I've wanted to do my FI Rating for sometime, before I commit, are flying schools starting to see an increase in business or are FI jobs still very hard to come by? I live in the South-East of England so I'd like to hear from you guys in schools on the south coast...

Thanks,
Cheers
JB

[Mickey Kaye]

I work in the Yorkshire area.

I don't think there has been any upturn business however there has definitely been an uptake in the number of instructors moving onto the airlines. I personally know at least 8 that have been hired in the last 2 months.

I would also go as far as saying that in my neck of the woods and new FI would be guaranteed work at present.

[MIKECR]

JB,

Complete opposite end of the country(Scotland) but perhaps interesting to compare. Things very quiet here as far as I can see. A few FI's have indeed moved on to airlines recently but more than an adequate supply of new FI's coming in behind to fill any gaps. I dont see much trade for full time guys and pretty much next to bugger all for the part time folks(myself included in that). There is however a slight glint that the airline situation seems to be improving.

[Whopity]

I would imagine that with EASA FCL only 15 months away the number of schools is about to halve.

[The Flying Chicken]

For me, it's been the usual winter downturn (prolonged, obviously). But generally business as usual. With a significant increase in IMC students.

['India-Mike]

My annual moving annual figure is approaching 250 hours a year (but I'm a part-timer). There's definitely more 'trade' out there for me but I'd have to go part-time in my proper job to accomodate that, and there's probably not enough out there for a full-time instructing job.

I haven't yet seen any slackening off. Good variety too with t/l's, ab-initios, tailwheel, night. If I had my aeros and instruments restrictions lifted I could do even more.

Having said that the owners tell me they're hurting:(

[kindupnorth]

re EASA FCL

forgive my ignorance, i have just been reading up on this. what are the implications on FI once this comes into force. just glancing through the document it appears that a lapl or ppl holder will be able to instruct at the level to which he/she is qualified. A ppl holder instructing for financial reward in effect! i take it an instructor rating will be required on top of!!

your thoughts??

[jez d]

re EASA FCL

forgive my ignorance, i have just been reading up on this. what are the implications on FI once this comes into force. just glancing through the document it appears that a lapl or ppl holder will be able to instruct at the level to which he/she is qualified. A ppl holder instructing for financial reward in effect! i take it an instructor rating will be required on top of!!

your thoughts??

The ppl holder will also have to have gain CPL theoretical knoweldge and an instructor rating so not much different from the current status quo.

JB007, I visited a few ppl schools on the south coast last week and none of them are recruiting currently. In fact the situation looks a little grim. Aside from the usual seasonal factors (bad weather, students paying off yuletide debts and consequently booking less lessons), one thing that struck me was that there were fewer week day bookings than normal. It would appear that students are concerned about their jobs and so taking less time off during the week, choosing instead to cram their training over the weekends. The other factor is of course the rising cost of fuel. I saw £1.96 per litre at one airfield :sad:

Despite the doom and gloom posted elsewhere on pprune, airlines do appear to be slowly upping their recruitment drives, and so, as Mickey and Mike rightly point out, instructors are starting to move on. If you give it six months I think your chances of finding an FI job will be quite high, but your chances at the moment (for the south coast at least) are pretty slim.

Regards, jez

[JB007]

Thanks Jez and others, much appreciated replies! Maybe i'll hold off a little longer before parting with my dosh!

[Duchess_Driver]

....and we're busy. Not likely to get a weekend slot for 3-4 weeks ahead.

Week days are steady.

[FormationFlyer]

Interesting. Looking at FTN's graphs regarding licence and rating issues the outlook is still bleak. The graphs show us about as low as its ever been...

[LH-OAB]

My school has just cut back on hours of operation/instructors/fleet.

[zondaracer]

I would imagine that with EASA FCL only 15 months away the number of schools is about to halve.


Whopity, why will the number of schools halve? I´m not saying you´re wrong or right, I was wondering the justification for your statement.

[jez d]

Zondaracer, can't answer for Whopity, but my understanding is that under EASA all RFs will have to re-register as FTOs, which will increase their workload and operating costs due to the required audit trail. It will automatically mean an end to the one man band flying school, operating out of his car boot, for example, as school premises is just one of the requirements for an FTO.

Regards, jez

[zondaracer]

Ok cool, thanks for the explanation

[Whopity]

Under EASA, all training for a licence or rating will have to be conducted at an Approved Training Organisation (ATO) no longer (FTO). There were around 600 RFs however, it is unlikely that there are really more than 300; many will never have notified their demise, change of name etc. The need to obtain approval and submit Operations Manuals, Training Manuals and a Safety Management System will deter all but the large well established schools. The inspection process may also result in a few casualties, costs will inevitably rise whilst student numbers will continue to fall etc. In the longer term the worry is, where will the future commercial instructors come from?

[blagger]

I predict this will just hasten the polarisation of light aviation into the leisure sector, with volunteer instructors, VLA type aircraft, club environment vs commercial schools training people towards MPLs (prob staffed by later years FIs ex-airlines). It is even possible that the modular commercial route will gradually die away.

[max_continuous]

Whoppity...

I am no expert and would not like to comment on the specifics, but if as you suggest the situation is that:

"there were around 600 RFs however, it is unlikely that there are really more than 300"

...is it not fair that a clearout was perhaps needed and possibly welcome?

I'm not arguing for or against the regulations, just questioning the situation and the fact that perhaps something needed to stimulate the effort? We are all quick to comment but a bit slower to act, maybe?

[Whopity]

The CAA have failed to manage RFs in the 11 years they have existed. The current purge is not so much a clear-out but rather a case of getting their books in order prior to the big shake-up. Sadly, there is no sign of any "stimulation" just inane European bureaucracy, administered by people who have little or no means of judging what is safe and what isn't. Its all about ticking boxes which and will have its inevitable toll.

Stimulation would include properly structured PPL exams, common to all States. Instead, EASA-FCL says that all (non existent) PPL theoretical exams must be passed in 6 sittings, or you have to retake all exams. In the UK we have 7 exams, so its just not possible, and the clowns in charge don't even know that!

[Mickey Kaye]

Did RF ever need managing?

I'm sick of all this regulation it does nothing.

[BillieBob]

Did RF ever need managing?

Oh yes - AAIB Report (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Aerospatiale%20Westland%20SA%20341G%20Gazelle,%20YU-HEW%2011-09.pdf)

[Whopity]

Safety Recommendation 2009-087
It is recommended that the Civil Aviation Authority allocate examiners for the conduct of PPL Skills Tests.And in response the CAA has adopted in advance, the EASA-FCL policy of letting anyone with the minimum hours and a JAA licence, undergo an examiner course and apply for an Examiner Authorisation.

[Say again s l o w l y]

The need to obtain approval and submit Operations Manuals, Training Manuals and a Safety Management System

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

The idea of most flying schools being able to knock something like this together is one of the funniest things I've ever read on here...!

Unless the SMS is allowed to consist of one piece of paper that says "we'll try not to crash too often" then I think that there might be a wee bit of a problem.

Of course there are some schools that'll manage it, but the vast majority will be left scratching their heads unless there is a REALLY good standards document that comes out and tells them how to do it in words of less than one syllable.

Having said all that, whilst I'm not a fan of any extra regulation, when it comes to PPL training in the UK, then I'll be the first to say "about bloody time too" when it comes to forcing schools to start doing things proerly.

[Mickey Kaye]

The costs involved with SMS caused an airfield close to me to go unlicensed.

"Training Manuals" and why they need to be approved

I've always struggle with this especially as the AFE/Trevor Thom/AFE books/on track notes always seem to be a better read, better produced and offer better education than pretty well every training manual I have ever come across.

[Whopity]

Of course there is an ICAO Training Manual, Doc 7192 - B5 for PPL training.

From ICAO Annex 11.2.8 Approved training
Note.— The qualifications required for the issue of
personnel licences can be more readily and speedily acquired
by applicants who undergo closely supervised, systematic and
continuous courses of training, conforming to a planned
syllabus or curriculum. Provision has accordingly been made
for some reduction in the experience requirements for the
issue of certain licences and ratings prescribed in these
Standards and Recommended Practices, in respect of an
applicant who has satisfactorily completed a course of
approved training.

Approved training shall provide a level of competency at least
equal to that provided by the minimum experience requirements
for personnel not receiving such approved training.