Handley Page Hastings

[ian16th]

Hastings Nav Desk note the 'Gee' receiver unit. Err No!

That is the Gee Indicator.

The Rx was under the Nav desk.

[DeanoP]

ian16th

Thanks.

text corrected.

[Null Orifice]

Some mag drops could be restored to serviceability by the simple means of a quick ground run by an available throttle bender. If this failed to restore the 'drop' to within limits, then the next step usually involved a plug change.

One dark and foggy night shift on 24 Sqdn at Colerne, our shift had cleaned most of the chinagraph scriptures of unserviceabilities from the state board, leaving just two engine snags outstanding, both mag drops. As the time was past Cinderella's curfew, we decided that a half-set of plugs on each aircraft was the most likely fix, each to be checked on a ground run first thing in the morning.
My colleague and I, both Sgts, duly set out towards our respective aircraft in the pea-soup. Having completed my task, I set off to see if my oppo needed a hand on his aircraft which was parked two places along the line from mine. On giving him a shout, his reply came through the murk from much further along the line of parked aircraft than I had expected - he had changed a half-set on the wrong (completely serviceable) aircraft!
Red faced in the flight office, he then had to 'fake' a mag drop in the F700 of the previously serviceable aircraft, before the trip to the squadron stores to collect a fresh half-set for the still-unserviceable, original aircraft.
Naturally, he finished his shift much later I did, after completing engine runs on his two aircraft to my one :E.

[DeanoP]

At RAF Colerne looking across 24 Sqn pan towards 36 Sqn aircraft pan. Lovely CuNimbs in the back ground. I can't believe we used to fly through those without the benefit of CCWR! Wondered why it used to get a bit bumpy.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1439/img011_445a3df07b305b63121cccb1c211ba87d9317efc.jpeg


A nice painting picked up somewhere. A bit heroic, 'it was a bit difficult but I did it and I'm ready for a plug change'. Hope they get the right aircraft Null Orifice!!!

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/901x775/img011_copy_dbf45519f45c123b9afeed44a7cf46c67ab1f370.jpeg

[Null Orifice]

Nice painting DeanO!

The No3 has a 120 rpm mag drop - No Fault Found on a ground run :ok:

Evocative pic of the 24 Sqdn dispersal; been there, but didn't get the T-shirt - just a pair of oily overalls and a greasy parka (sartorial elegance personified).

[brakedwell]

No frostbite?

[ancientaviator62]

Dean,
if I recall correctly the only way we knew we were near thunderstorms at night was the St Elmo's Fire and the ADF wandering off to find it. Apart that is from the turbulence and the flashes of lightning. Oh and the Siggie complaining of the static. Who needed CCWR ? Well the Hercules did !

[brakedwell]

if I recall correctly the only way we knew we were near thunderstorms at night was the St Elmo's Fire and the ADF wandering off to find it.

And the severity could be gauged by the amount of water entering the flight deck :eek:

[DeanoP]

Talking of 'static' in another sense, I remember flying from Lajes to Gander in cloud with the static vents iced up thus affecting the altimeter and IAS readings. The pilots didn't blink an eye and coped with the problem very well.
The engines were also backfiring like mad as the air intakes became iced up, the a/c yawing from side to side as power was lost and regained on each engine. I think the backfire blew the ice away because the engines always picked up again.

The engines, in my day, were extremely reliable with only one engine failure in 1100 houurs of Hastings flying. I believe they had terrible teething problems at the beginning causing a lot of crashes

[bingofuel]

I believe they had terrible teething problems at the beginning causing a lot of crashes

An ex Hastings Captain told me a lot of engine issues were caused by a poor decision (by the bean counters ) to use some type of recycled or lower grade oil, once they started using a higher quality oil the problems largely went away.

[cliver029]

Another instance of ice getting in the way. On one trip from Gander and letting down into Keflavik the toilet was drained too soon and a film of ice a delicate shade blue/green sealed the tail wheel doors closed.:uhoh:

[Amos Keeto]

What an interesting thread this is and many thanks to all contributors.
As an aviation press photographer, I was very lucky to get a flight in one of the last flying Hastings. This was the RAE's C.2, WJ327, at Farnborough in September 1972. They removed the freight doors on the port side and us photographers were attached to a strop tied around our waist to stop us falling out. We spent 5 hours circling round at 8,000 ft over Farnborough while the aircraft for the air show formated alongside for photography. It was freezing cold I recall, but not sure whether taking the photos or flying in the Hastings was the best bit for me, as I shall never forget that.

[DeanoP]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/454x362/scan_1_dcc790bc1de44f92966407c1491e02d0b909242b.jpeg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/454x338/scan_95a4710882883f7e266c713e60f5de2f33147b1d.jpeg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1418/scan_7_d43c2806dd82217b594b05d67177e77ca78fdfdf.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1399/scan_8_cedc540b5bdb95629c3acb7ebeef1f285d325788.jpeg

[JW411]

Once again, lovely photographs.

[Wyvernfan]

Great thread. I remember as a kid the example at Cambridge Airport and clearly seen from Coldhams Lane slowly deteriorating on the fire dump.

I'm now looking for a set of Hastings throttle box lever knobs (the actual engine throttle lever ones) to help complete an example, and would appreciate any help.

Thanks,


Rob

[Ali Qadoo]

I've literally just stumbled across this thread.

I was fortunate enough to be 'ballast' on the last ever flight of an RAF Hastings. As an RAF University Cadet, we were sent on 2-week holding postings every year during the university holidays and in 1977 I was sent as OC Bogs & Drains to RAF Scampton. As luck would have it, I got chatting to Sqn Ldr 'Jacko' Jackson (I think he was OC BBMF at the time) who asked me if I'd like to go flying in a Hastings. Of course I jumped at the chance.

It later transpired that this was going to be the ac's last flight, to its final home at the museum at Cosford. However, owing to the short runway, Jacko was a bit concerned about keeping the tailwheel down under braking, so I was recruited (all 10 stone of me) to act as ballast. On the approach I was to take 2 pairs of chocks and anything else that wasn't bolted down and sit as far back in the fuselage as I could - no seats of course, let alone seat-belts. These days, the 'ealth n' safety ninnies would've had a conniption.

The landing was uneventful - the chocks and I will take our little bit of credit for that - but it was a great treat for a young and clueless Acting Plt Off to have been a (very small) part of a historic trip.

[GGR155]

Would just like to say thanks to all the contributors in this thread.

A bloody good read!

Happy Christmas to all.........GGR

[bingofuel]

I think these might be of interest to some

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah3/Bingofuel99/Hastings%20checklist%20front_zpspblfnfjw.jpg

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah3/Bingofuel99/Hastings%20checklist%20reverse_zpswpfa8mii.jpg

[brakedwell]

I had forgotten how primitive it was!

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-21%20at%2015.26.23_zpskgpdxajz.png

To jog the memory of the lucky fellow who scrounged a lift on the C in C Near East Hastings.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-21%20at%2015.07.37_zpsmhuicayy.png

[JW411]

I didn't realise that you had Violet Picture in the Hastings.

[Haraka]

bingofuel
Thanks for the check list drill memories:

PITOT HEAD HEATER - on

The only part of the actions which was best done from the RHS in my happy recollections as an unofficial "gash" P2 on a number of occasions at Farnborough, 69-72.

[NRU74]

In post #269 what was the 'Spin' position on George ? What other positions were there? Was it an early Smiths design?

[Mr Oleo Strut]

Many a time as a junior apprentice at Handley Page I was given the unpleasant task of cleaning out the air intakes on Hastings wing sections prior to renovation. Often full of filth, muck and gawd knows what, it was a dreadful job. I remember that such was the corrosion you could flick rivet heads off with your fingers and some of the main spars were fatigue cracked. it taught me a lot about stress and metal fatigue. We often wondered if the aircrews knew what they were riding on.

[brakedwell]

In post #269 what was the 'Spin' position on George ? What other positions were there? Was it an early Smiths design?

NRU74 -this might help:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-22%20at%2009.44.25_zpshkgmhxi6.png

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-22%20at%2009.58.49_zpspfcftxjg.png
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-22%20at%2009.58.29_zpsfsljtfju.png

[NRU74]

Brakedwell,
Thanks, unfortunately resolution not high enough to be able to read the writing on [presumably] item 8 Fig B

[brakedwell]

The co-pilot's controller is a bit clearer.

The round knob was used for turn/heading and the long switch controlled the pitch, a very basic piece of kit. ISTR there was no height or heading lock, but I could be wrong.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-22%20at%2016.44.27_zpsdr9tumru.png

[Lancman]

I think that we're talking at cross purposes here, the SPIN selection refers to the Mark 4 autopilot used on Lancasters which ran off an Arrow air compressor on number 2 engine at 45 p.s.i. The control cock was on the port cockpit wall and had selections of OUT and SPIN if I remember correctly. SPIN was checked before take off to ensure that the gyro was spun up and ready for use in flight. The same autopilot may have been fitted on early Hastings but I never saw one.


The Hastings used a Mark 8 autopilot, which was worked by electricity. :).



By the way, has anybody ever seen an autopilot officially referred to as “George”?

[brakedwell]

The Hastings used a Mark 8 autopilot, which was worked by electricity.


The autopllot shown in my Hastings Pilots Notes is a Mk 9, a very hazy memory after 58 years.

[Lancman]

Welcome to the haze, it's nice and warm in here.

[brakedwell]

I do remember Cocchinelli haze :ok:

[goudie]

By the way, has anybody ever seen an autopilot officially referred to as “George”? My first boss when I started work nick named me 'George'. He was a former pilot and said that he called me that because I was, on occasion, like an autopilot, useful!

Often wondered when the term was first used and why

[DaveReidUK]

Often wondered when the term was first used and why

During WW2 a common expression on both sides of the Atlantic was "let George do it", meaning that if you couldn't be bothered doing [something], somebody else would have to.

https://reuther.wayne.edu/files/images/33268.preview.jpg

The phrase was also the title of a 1940 film starring George Formby.

Other explanations are available. :O

[shiftymark1977]

Hi all.
My uncle used to pilot Hastings in the early-mid 60's in 24 squadron I believe. I think he was based around the middle east but may be wrong about that.
He passed away recently and I wondered if anyone here knew him or had any memories of him.
His name was Roger John Jones.

[DeanoP]

Found this on the internet.


The 81st Entry
RAF Halton Aircraft Apprentices
Sept 1955 - July 1958
Issue Number 36
Aug 2013
Print this page
Home >> Archives >> Journal 36 >> Article No 5

FIVE GET LUCKY.

By Brian Spurway.Airframes.



Up until the 1960s most Royal Air Force air engineers (exactly the same breed as flight engineers in civilian aviation) would spend their working hours sitting in cubby-holes along with their essential switches, knobs, levers and dials in the various locations dictated by the design of their aircraft type. In most cases they had precious little outlook into the environment in which they were flying, One British built RAF type that had its engineer facing rearwards in such a cubby-hole, at the back of the flight-deck with no forward vision, was the Handley Page Hastings. Unusually, compared to other RAF multi crew aircraft, not only did the Hastings air engineer have responsibility for his aircraft's various systems, he also had his own throttle and propeller control levers. (see photo).


The Hastings was a barely post war, tail-wheeled, four-engine military transport aircraft with operating safety levels, particularly after engine failure, well below that later dictated by Performance Group A regulations, During take-off it had no such niceties as V speeds, rather it just had an 'unstick speed' of between 90 and 100 kts, depending on aircraft weight, and then a safety speed, also dictated by weight, which could be as much as 125 kts. At any weight, should an engine fail during take-off, the aircraft could not maintain level flight, let alone climb, unless its safety speed had been achieved and the undercarriage retracted; then (according to Pilot's Notes, that is!) the aircraft would slowly climb away. Personally I never experienced an engine failure on the Hastings but I would hazard a guess that anyone experiencing one during a heavy take-off, and before reaching safety speed, would live a lifetime waiting for that 25 kts increase in speed. We took our fuel-dumping drills seriously during any take-off, however when taking off from our base at RAF Colerne, sitting on top of a 600 feet high hill, we were somewhat comforted to know that a little extra airspace was available should it be needed. In the worst of cases should it be deemed necessary to crash land straight ahead we were well aware that RAF Lyneham was nearby to the east and an old disused airfield, Charmy Down, to the west.

Back then the RAF produced a monthly magazine called Air Clues in which a 'Wing Commander Spry' wrote suitable comments to accompany recently reported Flying Incidents (FIRs). One day in July 1966 I was involved in a flying incident that this gentleman, known for his occasional vitriol, commented on; these words may not be exactly what he wrote but they are close enough, "These five airmen are only alive today because RAF Colerne is located on top of a 600 feet high hill!" I flew as an air engineer/flight engineer for nearly thirty years and never got anywhere near repeating such a flirtation with my mortality; so here is, as far as my memory allows, the reported incident on which the good Wing Commander commented:

It was the 28th day of the month, a glorious mid-summer day and I was a brand new Royal Air Force air engineer having just a month earlier received my aircrew brevet on completion of the Hastings conversion course. Now I was one of a crew of five airborne in a Hasting Mk1A, TG605, at RAF Colerne, carrying out a Monthly Continuation Training (MCT) flight. The captain was an ex Beverley co-pilot who without ever gaining his captaincy on that type had been selected for training as a Hastings captain; the Beverley was a slightly more modern four-engine, nose-wheeled transport aircraft with a much better asymmetric performance than the Hasting. Having been on the same conversion course as me he was also brand new on type. The other three members of the crew, co-pilot, navigator and signaller, were considerably more experienced.

I digress from my story for a moment. There had to be a close working relationship between the operating pilot of a Hastings and the air engineer because of the way engine control was managed. The air engineer started the engines and carried out the run-up which entailed exercising the propellers, checking magnetos and the static (zero-boost) rpm. The captain had engine control for all taxiing and for the take-off run until happy that he had full directional control; he then handed over to the air engineer asking for full power, i.e. propeller control and throttle levers set to maximum. Thereafter the air engineer maintained control of the engines until the captain took it back to taxi after landing; an exception to this routine was during training details when the take-off procedure was repeated during roller landings (touch and goes). During flight the operating pilot would ask for a particular power setting to suit the circumstance, the air engineer would acknowledge the request whilst at the same time setting it (all very much like a ship's captain asking his chief engineer, down in the engine room, to set engine/propeller rpm). To the best of my knowledge the only other RAF aircraft type where the engineer had so much engine control was the (just entering service at that time) Vickers VC10; the American Boeing B29 (Washington) had used the same system but by this time it was long out of RAF Service.

The Hastings flight deck was arranged with the two pilots on a raised platform (see photo), the signaller low down facing backwards on a swivelling seat behind the captain, the navigator facing forward on a fixed back-to-back seat behind the co-pilot and the air engineer facing backwards on his half of this comfortable shared seat; both the navigator and the air engineer had previously used swivelling seats similar to the signaller's before a modification introduced this dual seat arrangement. Between the navigator and the air engineer was a transparent escape hatch that allowed a limited side-ways view of the world that included the starboard wing leading edge and its two engines To those who have not operated this way it must seem a very odd arrangement that a pilot facing forward, knowing exactly what was going on, had to judge the power setting he needed and then ask the rearward facing air engineer to set it for him

Back to the incident in question. We were close to finishing the detail; all navigation and instrument work had been completed, also the required number of rollers, we had carried out a practise engine failure (starboard outer in this case) followed by a 3-engine overshoot (missed approach) and we were now downwind for our 3-engine landing, all was well with the world and the old girl was fully serviceable, what could possibly go wrong? Well it certainly did!

As normal I was asked to set the standard landing rpm (that used for climbing power should an overshoot be necessary) and a boost figure that would give us the correct airspeed as the undercarriage went down and landing flap was selected. The landing checklist was completed and we turned base leg onto finals for runway 25. I was then expecting gradual reductions in boost as we descended but instead I was asked for an increase; I set what was requested whilst, at the same time, noting on my indicator (ASI), that the speed was about normal for an approach whilst the boost was now considerably higher than I would have expected. I cannot recall the three-engine decision height but we reached it and the decision was made to land so full flap was selected. Another boost increase was requested and then came an unexpected outburst from the co-pilot, "We're not going to make it Captain!!" This was followed by, "We'll be OK! Eng set Max Throttle", I did as asked which meant climbing power had then been set on the three live engines. It had been drummed into us during training that if, at decision height, the decision was made to land then it was mandatory to do so as overshooting below that height would be extremely hazardous. The only acceptable action with an engine shut down below decision height, should it become apparent the runway would not be reached, was to set symmetrical take-off power on two of the three live engines (i.e. one engine per wing, inboard or outboard depending on the situation) and then crash land straight ahead on the runway heading!!!!! For those who know Lyneham (for instance) imagine that on the approach to runway 07.

I think that my inexperience, and possibly my conviction that an apparent request from the pilot was really an order, had caused me to make a power selection that could only end in tears. Was the captain attempting to reach the runway or was he attempting the impossible - a 3-engine overshoot the likes of which may have been OK in his Beverley but in our old girl was sure to end in disaster? My own instruments now showed the sort of speed I associated with touch down and a height of next to nothing; a very quick peek outside where I saw a side view of trees whereas normally it would have been their tops. The co-pilot screamed, "We're going to crash!!" The captain shouted, "Eng set Take-off Power!!" and the co-pilot shouted even louder, "Negative Captain, you'll never hold the swing!". Realising the co-pilot's understanding of the situation I ignored the captain's order but a split second later my RPM levers slammed forward as the captain, ignoring the co-pilot and my negative response, took it on himself to push his own rpm levers (linked mechanically to mine) to their limit; we now had take-off power set on the three live engines and were seconds from becoming a burning pyre somewhere off to the right of the runway. We careered across the airfield, barely airborne, in a sort of flat skidding turn, possibly some 30º, or more, off the runway centreline, with undercarriage retracting and flaps coming in to the take-off position (I don't remember hearing a call for either as there were other thoughts on my mind just then!). I saw a line of Hastings parked on the disused runway pass down our starboard side, followed by the welcome sight of the airfield boundary fence passing just beneath us. The ground fell away, thanks to the airfield being atop that aforementioned hill, giving us some welcome airspace to play with; believe me we used up quite a lot of it! The aircraft accelerated a bit and our rear-end orifices began to take up their original profiles. T's & P's (temperatures and pressures) were ignored as we restarted the starboard outer, levelled off, and then climbed away over Bath, any thoughts about noise abatement over the city totally ignored!

Phew!! That was the simple expression that should have emanated from each of us, but what came over the intercom was a series of extreme expletives. Not from the captain though, oh no, he came out with something like, "Well chaps, let's just settle down now and carry on with the detail." This was immediately followed by, "We must get an asymmetric landing done chaps, so Siggie tell Local (ATC) we'd like to join downwind for a roller followed by a 3-engine landing." Stunned silence followed for several seconds before the signaller (he and I were the two SNCOs on the crew) replied with several expletives and a suggestion to the captain that I certainly cannot repeat here. Whereupon the still surprisingly calm captain thumbed his own RT switch and called Local himself; he received the simple but authoritative reply, "Negative, join downwind and make this a full stop landing!" Audible over the intercom we heard the captain mumble… "No b****y sense of humour some people!"

We did as ATC ordered and after a very smooth three-pointer taxied off the far end of the runway and came to a stop. Maintaining his insistence that he finish the detail the captain now came out with, "Siggie, stop mucking about now and request backtrack for further take off to be followed by a 3-engine landing!" Confident that we would now get another refusal the signaller obliged and, as the response of "Negative, stay where you are!" came from the tower I released my hand from the fuel ICOs (Idle Cut-Off levers) that, had that response not come, I would have pulled and to hell with the consequences.

We sat there just off the end of the runway until a couple of cars approached us, one of
which was flying the Station Commander's pennant; out jumped the CO from his car whilst our squadron's training captain and air engineer leader got out of the other. The captain was taken away for a well-deserved 'interview' with the CO as our new captain took his seat.; we then back-tracked the runway and took-off for another one and three quarters of an hour of continuous three-engine approaches and overshoots (with either one or the other of the two outboard engines shut down). My boss assured me later that he and the training captain decided on this action so as to ensure that the aircraft was not to blame for what had happened, but, with hindsight, I think they both applied some sensible psychology - "If you fall off your horse then the best thing you can do is to get back on it."

We obviously knew nothing about it until later but a sharp eyed 'air trafficker', visually monitoring us from up in the ATC tower, had correctly judged that our aircraft's unusual attitude during the approach could only end in disaster and had immediately hit the 'Crash Alarm' and broadcast over the station Tannoy system that an aircraft was about to crash on the airfield; there would have been no shortage of witnesses available for the subsequent enquiry.

During my RAF apprenticeship at Halton I had learnt about Profile Drag, Induced Drag and Total Drag, and had even heard the phrase 'Flying on the wrong side of the Drag Curve'; according to the experts, who later analysed our incident, that was exactly what had occurred. But how had we got into that situation?

Undoubtedly we should have 'crashed and burnt' but, had we, who would the subsequent enquiry have blamed? A more experienced air engineer than me would have picked up on the problem earlier and said something. With his experience on type the co pilot should have recognised the situation, queried the captain's decision to land and at least suggested we overshot from decision height, if not take more drastic action. All three of us would have been considered culpable I'm sure. But in my opinion the blame laid with those who made the peculiar decision to take three Beverley co pilots and send them, as captains, to a much more difficult aircraft to handle - all three were on the same course as me, one being my student captain, and believe me he had his difficulties too! The usual system was then, and still is to the best of my knowledge, that experienced co pilots on type eventually become captains on the same type; then once experienced in command may be selected for captaincy on other types - entirely logical!

Why did Air Clues, which normally dealt with such incidents in depth, comment with just the single sentence I mentioned earlier? Could it be that this bad decision had become an embarrassment to those who had made it and they wanted it swept under the carpet? Even at squadron level it was all kept very quiet; other than a chat with my boss I was never officially asked to explain what had happened.

A few years earlier, also at Colerne, another Hastings, differing only in that the port outer was shut down, had attempted the same thing; the pilot lost control and the aircraft crashed off to the left of the airfield with the loss of all on board.

We were very lucky that day but all in all I'm still here because that man, admittedly having got us into the 'ess aitch one tee', showed some amazing flying skills getting us out of it. I owe him one! His time on the Squadron soon came to an end, possibly because of this incident, and he was posted away, allegedly on to an easier aircraft; I never met him again but I did meet up with the navigator and the signaller years later when the three of us were all stationed at RAF Leeming - the nav being my boss, and he and I flew together on Dominies and Jetstreams for another two and a half years.

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[Tiger_mate]

An oil painting of a Hastings at RAF Nicosia in the early sixties:

http://home.btconnect.com/aeroartist/hastings.jpg

Preserving Aviation Heritage through Art.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Tiger Mate,
Is that your work.
Mighty impressive if so !
Any plans for prints ?
Be lucky
David

[Tiger_mate]

AvgasDinosaur

Yes
Thankyou, I appreciate the comment.
Yes
AeroArtist (http://www.aeroartist.com/hastings.htm)

[thegypsy]

The only ex Hastings pilot I ever came across was Ralph Moring who signed me off on the PA23 Aztec around 1970.

[staircase]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1420x2000/img009_7c0d2a60167f147dfcbaa709bcb3ee0f559724bb.jpg
MODS my first attempt at a picci. Please feel free to alter if i got it wrong.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Beautiful ! More please.........

[staircase]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1420x2000/img005_e62927f5be85bcb6eb18b62b392b9c84872a91d6.jpg
alas, this is the only other one I have.

[staircase]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1418/img021_af4ff2ea21bb7d09084e3db37001a9610eeda6f6.jpg
Mrs Staircase reminded me that I also had this one. Daft she should have to, since it has been on the wall of my den for 30 years!

[Kemble Pitts]

That is a super picture.

[staircase]

The original of TG 568 has both wing tips, but it is larger than the screen on my scanner, as a result it does not do the photographer justice.

TG 568 taken at Lindholme in 1971.

TG 536 was taken in 1972 half way between Honnington and Scampton.

All near enough 50 years ago.

[Pontius Navigator]

The Lindholm Hastings were an essential part of the Bomber Command dispersal plans,as such they would do practice at each airfield.

On one such the stn cdr was one of the pilots. After an approach at Lyneham the sqn pilot told the stn cdr, 'if that was at Lindholm you would have taken out the boundary fence.'. "Nonsense".

Back at Lindholm he took out the boundary fence.

[lauriebe]

One of three surviving Hastings airframes in the UK; TG517, at Newark Air Museum. Photos taken on my last visit to the museum on 30 April 2013.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/20130430_img_1131_00d230e809d212dcb7441a947293a98b9f8c3831.j pg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/20130430_img_1168_783d6732f73346a89b5370932a745a05cf57b010.j pg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/20130430_img_1170_e464d4784d8a3dd85775330267ffbe9c156729a4.j pg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/20130430_img_1169_145bf878db54aee2717bf9b52260118d72bee92e.j pg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/20130430_img_1166_7d4c402065cdf6801aef7ebaa3de2a000a0cf3bb.j pg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/20130430_img_1175_9b5de4ca25baa5a3f66e0fd3272ff0cb1d269cba.j pg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/20130430_img_1176_1ab5270285752f81ad1e3b98ee82a319281b219b.j pg

[staircase]

Ah... TG 517 I remember her. I was sent 'solo' in her. Obviously with a crew, but the big man in charge actually got off and launched me with a Co pilot!

When I left 1066 I 'stole' my pilots notes. Many years latter I visited Newark and they told me the pilots notes for the aeroplane had been stolen. I therefore donated mine to this museum.

Thankyou for the pictures of the flight deck.

I remember the comments of the fence going at Lindholme. It was said that it bounced on the road before the fence, took out two wheel sized holes in the fence, bounced on the piano keys, and went round.

ATC was said to have radioed 'two points and a refusal'.

[Fareastdriver]

I presume that they had a more sophisticated system for relieving the pilots than two buckets in the footwells.

[staircase]

Once again ah....you may well laugh. A new co pilot on the way to Cyprus and I need a pee. Well the toilets were still in the rear. The toilet consisted of an elsan and a pee tube that drained out to the air. However I noticed that the pee tube was still in situ in the old crew rest area on the flight deck, now the inverter room on the T5. Biggles here unzips and lets go to find himself with a wet foot, the bottom of the 'tube' seemingly cut off.

On arrival in Cyprus the 'pee tube' I had used was taken out by the engineer and used to fill the domestic water tank. I never did tell anyone obviously, but drank orange juice for the next leg.

I had another experience with the pee tube.We were doing a flypast in line astern for a graduation parade at Swinderby. I was playing co pilot for the Group Captain, who was flying number 2. Running in for the 'show', someone on the lead aeroplane went for a good long squirt, the resulting fluid arriving all over our windscreen, and those ex Hastings people will remember it leaked like the proverbial sieve. Interesting conversations afterwards!

[Geriaviator]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x685/hastings_khormaksar_ef34c5f73aecc5034cd36b8c59870d074ad33e5f .jpg
After years on Prune how could I have missed this thread on one of my favourite aircraft? Our affair began when a very much younger Geriaviator was pictured checking out his Hastings at the end of my father's two-yr posting to RAF Khormaksar, Aden. The Hastings would return us to Lyneham the following day for six months at the ghastly Croft transit camp near Warrington before another year or so at Leuchars.

The day before we left Aden in Feb 1953, the 30 passengers on the homeward flight had to report for weighing so weight and balance calculations could be carried out. Piston aircraft are much less tolerant of weight variations than today’s huge jets, even though people were lighter. There were only a couple of steps to the door of the tailwheel Hastings, but inside there was a steep slope due to the tail-down attitude. The seats were rear facing, a safety feature adopted by Transport Command after the war and continued to this day with results well proven in the Command'’s relatively few accidents.

As we boarded we were given a cardboard box containing sandwiches and a bar of chocolate, this being our inflight meal for the eight-hour flight. Tea was served from a couple of big urns kept in the tail beside the Elsan. My parents were placed amidships, but being only six stone I was delighted to be seated in the tail beside the loadmaster. The downside of this came later, when like thousands of rear gunners I discovered that the tail constantly wags from side to side; this, combined with the ups and downs of turbulence and scoffing my entire packet of Smarties, produced the inevitable result. Fortunately Their Airships had thoughtfully included a waxed paper bag in the lunch pack.

After a few hours there was great excitement when a pencil-filled form was passed row by row from the front. The Flight Report informed us that we were cruising at 180 mph and 8000 feet. Below the Ethiopian scenery was unchanged from two hours ago, a featureless brown plain devoid of vegetation or habitation. I wondered even then how anyone could live in such arid surroundings.

Khartoum offered a hearty breakfast at 6am, being porridge, greasy bacon and eggs ladled from two-foot square metal dishes familiar to Service diners. Boys wore shorts in those days and as we headed north I began to feel an icy blast across my legs. The double doors alongside were battered and I could see through the one-inch gap along the bottom. Dad said the Hastings had been used on the Berlin airlift and like the Dakotas and Yorks had taken a battering.

After a refuelling stop at (I think) Castel Benito we landed at Lyneham that evening, totally exhausted by the thunderous noise of the four Hercules. To communicate one had to shout into the recipient’'s ear and to this day I wonder how the Halifax crews withstood it night after night -- and the Merlins were even worse. For all that I wouldn'’t have missed it for the world, and 60 years later I can remember that flight as if it was yesterday.

Posted to 202 Sqn Aldergrove in 1954, my father and his colleagues were responsible for launching the Met Flight Hastings at 0800 every morning. These ‘Bismuth’ flights of up to eight hours would collect data for weather forecasting, and continued until 1964. The ground crews never failed to get their aircraft away on time, although a standby was always ready as the Bismuth was so important.

Aldergrove's 202 Sqn Met Flight crews aboard the Hastings for 8-10 hour flights out into the Atlantic dined on Banjo Rolls. The name came from the banjo union, a circular fitting used for components such as petrol feed to carburettors or oil drains from motorcycle valve gear. The crew took it in turns to fry bacon and eggs for insertion into a round bread loaf, known in Northern Ireland as a bap. Two captains used their rank to demand the fat from the pan poured over the delicacy, thereby boosting their cholesterol levels to undreamed-of heights, had they only known about such things. My father complained that the cockpit often became a greasy mess and had to be wiped down with petrol.

By 1956 we had acquired a 1936 Hillman Minx car, purchased for £30, rewired with cable from the B-29 Washingtons on Aldergrove'’s salvage dump, and with a section of B-29 bomb door just the right curvature for riveting over the boot, which had corroded clean through. The Hillman engine drank oil, but we had ample supplies of OMD-270 as used on the Bristol Hercules; if it was good enough for the Hastings, it was good enough for our Minx, which would rattle along with a trail of blue smoke just like the mighty sleeve-valve Hercs. I thought one of the Wright Cyclones from the scrap Washingtons would make it go even better but Dad drew the line at that.

When 202 Sqn was disbanded in 1964 I was overjoyed to be given a place on the final flypast. After takeoff Master Pilot Radina, who had escaped from Czechoslovakia in 1940 to become an instructor on Liberators, invited me up front where I was startled to see the lead Hastings tailplane gently rising and falling a few feet to the left of our nose. Radina was gently tweaking the throttles with right hand while holding the ponderous Hastings on station with his left, while a third Hastings formed the left side of the vic and a fourth brought up the tail.

We broke away at the Co. Down coast, leaving the leader to take the squadron standard to England, where 202 converted to helicopters and became an SAR squadron. This aircraft was flown by Flt Lt Kajestan (Iggy) Ignatowski, DFM, AFC, VM, who had escaped the advancing Germans in 1940 using a light aircraft which he somehow acquired to cross part of his way across Europe. Eventually he and hundreds of other Poles found their way to Britain, where he joined the newly formed 301 (Polish) Sqn to fly Wellington bombers against the Reich.

A few decades later I was touched to hear that Master Pilot Radina's ashes had been scattered over the North Sea from a 202 Sqn helicopter flown by Tony Harrison, who recalled that Mrs. Radina had been brought out to the aircraft, rotors turning, to hand over the urn for her husband's final flight..

[India Four Two]

Great stuff Geri. Thanks for taking the time to write your post.

[Fareastdriver]

rewired with cable from the B-29 Washingtons on Aldergrove'’s salvage dump, and with a section of B-29 bomb door just the right curvature for riveting over the boot,

I was there somewhat before you; 1948-49, The salvage dump was at that time full of Lancasters that were being broken up. There was also a Sunderland, how it had arrived at Aldergrove I had no idea but I had this plot to convert one of its floats into a boat.

Then 202 Sqn. was Halifaxs using the squadron code YE. They obtained two replacements that were painted white as opposed to the Bomber Command finish of the rest. One was 'A' and the other 'H' which was my and my sister's initials. YE-H undershot the westerly runway and took out the BABS van, which reciprocated by removing the port mainwheel. I lived with my parents in a quarter next to the WAAF accommodation adjacent to the perimeter track by the officers' mess so I had a grandstand view of it sliding down the runway.

One more for the salvage dump.

[staircase]

I read the sort of things that get posted on this forum, (and some of the others,) and I sometimes wonder why no one puts them into some sort of order and publishes a book.

I am well into my dotage now and have no interest in serious work, but would have thought some enterprising sole could have taken advantage of the postings and made a few shillings. I suspect most of us would be happy to be of assistance.

Perhaps the meanderings and memories of a few of us oldies have no monetary value, but perhaps some they may have some historic interest?

[Geriaviator]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x750/front_cover_postimage_d4d8359b991dba80e1ecba7afd6433ea0ac422 73.jpg

@ India 42
You're welcome, but to be honest most people in the UK are only too glad to find something to pass that time and this Hastings thread has kept me occupied for many hours! It's fatal to browse these threads 'for a few minutes' as the minutes expand rapidly until the inevitable angry bellow down the hallway: I won't call you again, get off that damn computer NOW !

@ staircase
Your time on Prune has been far longer than mine so I'm sure you have visited the Brevet (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/329990-gaining-r-f-pilots-brevet-ww-ii.html) thread which Cliffnemo launched in June 2010. It began with wartime training but by 2012 had widened into all aspects of the postwar RAF, from training to overseas postings, from airfields to ATC, from flying experiences to family life.

Rob the Mod has assured me that the Brevet thread will remain as a living history of aviation written by those who created it. Sadly the thread has become almost moribund since the passing in 2018 of our much loved Danny42C, who flew Vultee Vengeance dive-bombers against the Japanese and became so bored when he returned to civilian clerical work that he rejoined the RAF and at last was posted to a Spitfire squadron.

His stories kept us spellbound and as you suggest were edited into two e-books, In with a Vengeance and Danny and the Cold War. The cover picture is of Danny and his Vengeance over the Western Ghats of southern India, and the objects below the wings are not bombs -- they are mustard gas spray canisters! I don't recognise your callsign so if you (or anyone else) want copies please send me your email via PM as Prune cannot handle attachments.

All we (and the late Danny) ask in return is a £10 per book donation to the RAF Benevolent Fund, his favourite charity. And many thanks to the scores of Pruners who have contributed – we reckon you have given well over £1000 to the Fund. Best wishes everyone, and may we all stay safe.

[denachtenmai]

Have thought about this for some years, but now it's time to reveal another side of TG507.
The country due south of this sceptred isle was a little miffed about 58 Squadron Canberras (other PR Squadrons as well I assume but I only know about 58).
flying over their land with the ability to photo. anything and so, any that did had to have their camera windows taped up, this was to ensure that perfidious Albion did not have PR access to their "secrets"
Enter TG507. This had two large cameras fitted, port and stbd. just aft of the flight deck, the optical windows were covered by roller doors that could be uncovered in flight
I must admit that on the ground it was nearly impossible to make out the apertures, they were so well done. 8k ft and 175kt what more could be asked?
So, 51, as well as doing it's major job was, for a brief time, a PR unit.:8

[sandringham1]

denachtenmai
I had read somewhere that a F96 Camera had been installed in the oblique mode on a Hastings, whether this was used with the door off or through a clear panel fitted in the door I do not know but your clandestine version sounds much better.
Do you know what happened to TG507 after it was retired from use in 68 or 69, I know where most Hastings ended up but not 507.

[The Toilet Tester]

An Aviation database I use, has TG507 being struck off charge on 23/04/1969 at Aston Down.
Nothing further mentioned.
Cheers.

[staircase]

A chap named Victor F Bingham wrote a book 'Handley Page Hastings and Hermes. ISBN 1 870384 63 6

In the back is the fate of all the Hastings and the entry for TG 507 reads;

'EFS; 47; 202; 24-36; 242 OCU; MoA; To Handley Page for special camera installation. RAF Wyton for special trials'.

SOC 23.4.69

[DaveReidUK]

A chap named Victor F Bingham wrote a book 'Handley Page Hastings and Hermes. ISBN 1 870384 63 6

In the back is the fate of all the Hastings and the entry for TG 507 reads;

'EFS; 47; 202; 24-36; 242 OCU; MoA; To Handley Page for special camera installation. RAF Wyton for special trials'.

SOC 23.4.69

TG507 was at Aston Down when SOC, so presumably scrapped in situ by 5 MU.

[denachtenmai]

Thanks staircase, I didn't know that HP did the mod, really was a work of art. :ok:

sandringham1, 2 oblique cameras, not seeing through door, dedicated optical windows, situated in compartments just aft of the F/Eng and Nav stations.

[Phileas Fogg]

Must be lockdown to find myself watching 'The Iron Maiden' movie last evening not realising that it had anything to do with aviation never mind some of it filmed at Radlett.

The white thing (outdoors) was a supposed new supersonic airliner whilst indoors was clearly the HPR7 Herald production line.

The Iron Maiden


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1366x768/victor2_46072967e9bc6d2e59300f4f20b17760d84b4df6.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1366x768/hpr7_4a0d45c494be061a4e182f895a1ecb7f23e0cb20.jpg

[Shackeng]

I trained on 707s with an ex Hastings FE who told me a few tales.
He was doing a trip having just returned from leave, and they got to the TOD/Pre Landing(?) checks. At some point in the list the Captain asked for ‘Minus 4’, Derek dutifully reduced power, the next call followed immediately, ‘Minus 2’. Power is reset. Next an annoyed call from Captain “What’s going on with the power Eng?”
”You asked for minus 4 then minus 2” says our hero.
“I did not, I was responding to the (new) checklist item: ‘seats and harness(?)’ with ‘mines secure’ to which the co replied ‘mine is too’.
Note to self, must read FM/checklist amendments when returning from leave.

Another Captain was fond of saying at the flare, “Yours is the power Engineer, but mine is the glory.”

Apropos nothing at all, Derek’s son is now a training Captain with Virgin.

[thegypsy]

The only ex Hastings pilot I met was a Ralph Moring who signed me off on the Aztec around 1970.

[staircase]

Well there are still a few of us about Gypsy, and I think I would speak for all if I said that we would meet anyone as long as they were buying the drink!

[brakedwell]

I spent two years as a Hastings 2nd pilot in 1957/9. I hated the job, but we had two Chipmunks and an Anson to play with. In fact we were meant to get at least 100 hours a year on them to qualify for flying pay, but most second pilots didn't bother with them. I did quite a lot of flying in them and also flew Meteor 7 and 8's at Nicosia to relieve the boredom. When I first joined the squadron I was sent to Lajes Field in the Azores to look after a Hasting which was damaged during landing in a gale when on the way back from Christmas Island. I have a few photos of the bent Hastings.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x691/gale_damage_december1957_530913f93f57e000e3382ecb01662d9d0f6 aa92c.jpeg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1737x1004/hastings_1_f8fb7d50f622716eac4cbe54af86c53d63748aef.jpeg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x990/eckn2124_8f2438afc5a9471edfb0b27a788c8d3c2fb3f5db.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

brakedwell,
great pics thanks. One of our Hercules broke loose from the tie downs at Lajes in a gale. IIRC only damage was a few scratches on the radome as it nestled into the fence.

[Barf42]

I am currently preparing colour scheme drawings of the RNZAF's fleet of Hastings'. Im have little information on the servicing/maintenance markings that were applied to the aircraft. We followed the RAF standard in those days. I was wondering if anyone had any drawings, pictures or other info regrading these markings.

[Prangster]

'It's a bloody Halifax with nobs on', one of the aircrew administers a gentle clip round the ear to the impertinent ATC cadet heading towards one of Lindholmes T5,s
'Just you mind your Ps and Qs laddie' We trudged round the sky seeing nowt on account of it being well dark so take off must have been late in the day it being August. I seem to remember a roller at Jurby before flogging back to cocoa and bed
Seriously though just how much Halifax was there in evidence?

[India Four Two]

Nice to see the Hastings thread pop back up. The last time I saw one was at Lindholme while on UBAS Summer Camp in 1969. I presume it was a T5.

A Hastings nearly caused my flying career to come to an early abrupt end in September 1966. I was flying a Piper Colt with my instructor, heading west between Reading and Newbury at about 2000', when a dot in the distance suddenly morphed into a head-on Hastings that flashed over our heads before we could do anything. It was so close we both ducked. That was the closest I have knowingly been to a mid-air.

[DHfan]

'It's a bloody Halifax with nobs on', one of the aircrew administers a gentle clip round the ear to the impertinent ATC cadet heading towards one of Lindholmes T5,s
'Just you mind your Ps and Qs laddie' We trudged round the sky seeing nowt on account of it being well dark so take off must have been late in the day it being August. I seem to remember a roller at Jurby before flogging back to cocoa and bed
Seriously though just how much Halifax was there in evidence?

Quite a lot of the part numbers were the same, HP57, particularly the wings I believe.
The Halifax at Elvington, regularly derided as being a model or replica, has as I recall entirely Hastings wings with the only glaring discrepancy being a wider centre section.

I understand veterans considered it to be a Halifax. Good enough for me...

[chevvron]

I saw several Hastings from the old 202 'Met' Squadron parked at Aldergrove in 1963 and apparently ready for 'retirement' but I understand next year they were re-purposed to become the T5 nav trainers at Lindholme (which I saw there in 1965) which served until Lindholme closed in 1972 so when I went back to Lindholme in '73 for my Area Radar training at Northern Radar they had gone (but there was still the solitary Victor an a hangar)
I also saw Hastings up to 1967 when visiting Abingdon but never got to fly in them.
The last Hastings I saw was in 1974 when it served as camera ship (WD480 I think) in the runup to the Farnborough Airshow in August /September in 1974. It was retired shorly after the airshow.

[Brewster Buffalo]

On the last photo above is that a B-17 in the left hand bottom corner?

[chevvron]

On the last photo above is that a B-17 in the left hand bottom corner?
Yes but I don't think it is US; maybe Aeronavale roundels?

[G-ARZG]

Given the Lajes location, most likely to be a Portuguese AF SB-17?

[brakedwell]

It is a Portuguese SAR B17. I think the Portuguese Air Force had about three at Lajes.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Thanks for confirming it's a B-17. Surprised they were still operational in the late1950s.

On the others - on the apron a Nord Noratlas and a C-54?.

More interesting on the runway is an USN EC-121.
From wiki - The Atlantic Barrier (BARLANT) was to extend early warning coverage against surprise Soviet bomber and missile attacks as an extension of the DEW Line.
BARLANT became operational on 1 July 1956, and the EC-121's flew continuous coverage until early 1965. Their mission was to fly orbits to the Azores and back. The barrier was shifted to cover the approaches between Greenland, Iceland, and the United Kingdom (GIUK) barrier in June 1961.

[sandringham1]

I saw several Hastings from the old 202 'Met' Squadron parked at Aldergrove in 1963 and apparently ready for 'retirement' but I understand next year they were re-purposed to become the T5 nav trainers at Lindholme (which I saw there in 1965) which served until Lindholme closed in 1972 so when I went back to Lindholme in '73 for my Area Radar training at Northern Radar they had gone (but there was still the solitary Victor an a hangar)
I also saw Hastings up to 1967 when visiting Abingdon but never got to fly in them.
The last Hastings I saw was in 1974 when it served as camera ship (TG 506 I think) in the runup to the Farnborough Airshow in August /September in 1974. It was retired shorly after the airshow.

Chevvron, None of the MET1's you saw at Aldergrove in 63 went on to be Nav Trainer T5's, the only MET1's that did were already so modified by that year and they were TG505,511 and 517 converted in 1960, the other five T5's were converted from standard C1's.
The 1974 Farnborough camera ship was the RAE resident WD480 making its last ever flight on the 31st of August 74, I watched it from near Greenham Common as it flew a racetrack pattern with the various airshow attendees for-mating alongside it, it was only later that I discovered it to be its last flight.

[Helen49]

Fascinating thread guys!!

[Haraka]

WD480 was the unique C.2 with a bath tub "Bomb Bay"
(Used for sonobouy batch acceptance testing off of West Freugh)

[chevvron]

I only ever saw '480 during that one period.
When I arrived at Farnborough in March '74, the main runway was being re-surfaced so most of the fast jets and large aircraft had been 'boltholed' to other airfields and just helicopters, transport flight other smaller types using the subsidiary runways at Farnborough so '480 came in from Bedford sometime in August 1974 to perform its swansong.
Two other notable 'retirements' during that time were the Beverley, which had in fact already gone to Luton for use by Autair and was eventually flown from Luton to Paull by an RAE crew in March '74 and 'Zebedee', the Shackleton T4, VP293, which departed to Strathallen in in August '74.

[Krystal n chips]

The last Hastings I saw was at the Gulag St Athan Air Day in 76.....I recall the landing involved an extended demonstration of the full rudder authority

[Chairborne 09.00hrs]

Just published by Air-Britain: Handley Page Hastings - The RAF’s Transport Workhorse (air-britain.co.uk) (https://www.air-britain.co.uk/actbooks/acatalog/HandleyPageHastings--182.html)

https://fft-keymodelworld.b-cdn.net/sites/keymodelworld/files/styles/article_body/public/inline-images/Handley%20Page%20Hastings%20%28KMW%20700%29.jpg?itok=Efm_Yqz A

[brakedwell]

Thanks for confirming it's a B-17. Surprised they were still operational in the late1950s.

On the others - on the apron a Nord Noratlas and a C-54?.

More interesting on the runway is an USN EC-121.
From wiki - The Atlantic Barrier (BARLANT) was to extend early warning coverage against surprise Soviet bomber and missile attacks as an extension of the DEW Line.
BARLANT became operational on 1 July 1956, and the EC-121's flew continuous coverage until early 1965. Their mission was to fly orbits to the Azores and back. The barrier was shifted to cover the approaches between Greenland, Iceland, and the United Kingdom (GIUK) barrier in June 1961.

Here are some more photos of the Portugese Air Force aircraft

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x736/sarb17_42091d137b3d3ea3e9bf9045c3a01192fa1993dc.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1747x1098/b_17_in_hangar_78932c1dc464796edc9e341463a935c9a9e7a893.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1800x1282/sa_16_albatross_a00b0b4276cfa9a3952fd1e0563dfd89dfb411b0.jpg

[chevvron]

Those EC121s also operated into Blackbushe up until May 1960. The US Navy established its European base (called FASRON 200) there in 1957 and had planned to develop the airport with a 10000ft main runway and 7000ft subsidiary runway.
Then the UK government discovered that Gatwick was becoming a bit of a 'white elephant' and within a few months closed Blackbushe and shortened the runways leaving the FASRON 200 base area (with its own newly built hangarage and aprons) cut off from the rest of the airport all for the sake of getting a few of the smaller civil operators to move to Gatwick which could have left FASRON 200 operating without hindrance..

[134brat]

Brewster Buffalo
Sorry to be a pedant but l think that the a/c you call a Noratlas is actually a C119. Looks like USAF colour scheme. I am happy to be corrected.

[treadigraph]

Brewster Buffalo
Sorry to be a pedant but l think that the a/c you call a Noratlas is actually a C119. Looks like USAF colour scheme. I am happy to be corrected.
Definitely a C-119.

[old,not bold]

First and last time I saw a Hastings, dimly because it was dark, was at RAF Benson as we boarded for the first night jump of the all-arms para course. I forget exactly when but it would have been 1963, I think.

It was a terrifying experience as we had to jump into a river of sparks from No.2 engine, but once that was over all was OK and we floated down hoping never to see such a rattly old tub again.

We thought the same about the Beverley, as it happens, but that's another thread.

[Cornish Jack]

We thought the same about the Beverley, as it happens, but that's another thread.
o,nb - having time on both, but much,much more on the Bev, they were 'chalk and cheese'. ... not least of the improvements, was the lack of the post lift-off respiratory pause waiting for 'safety speed' ! ! :ok:

[Brewster Buffalo]

Brewster Buffalo
Sorry to be a pedant but l think that the a/c you call a Noratlas is actually a C119. Looks like USAF colour scheme. I am happy to be corrected.

Definitely a C-119.

No worries...thanks for the correction I did wonder why it seemed to have a USAF colour scheme. Interesting to hear about the UK basing of the EC-121 and see the pictures of the Portugese aircraft

[chevvron]

No worries...thanks for the correction I did wonder why it seemed to have a USAF colour scheme. Interesting to hear about the UK basing of the EC-121
Photos taken at Blackbushe mostly prior to closure on 31 May 1960:
www.blackbusheairport.proboards.com/thread/3/photo-day?page=7 There are about 284 pages of Blackbushe photos many containing EC121s
www.airfieldresearchgroup.org.uk/forum/hampshire-airfields/1476-blackbushe-hartfordbridge?start=30 Photo no 37 is the main one you want.

[old,not bold]

We thought the same about the Beverley, as it happens, but that's another thread.
o,nb - having time on both, but much,much more on the Bev, they were 'chalk and cheese'. ... not least of the improvements, was the lack of the post lift-off respiratory pause waiting for 'safety speed' ! ! :ok:I had to renew my acquaintance with the Beverley when travelling several times between Sharjah and Bahrain......I still nurse the trauma of sitting in the boom as its Irish-accented Captain made 3 attempts to get the beast off the Bahrain runway before hitting the RESA; trundling back after the 2 failed attempts with the words "insanity consists of repeating a failed action in the hope that it won't fail again" running through our minds, as we listened to his gung-ho optimism that "we'll get off sooner or later".

I'm not sure which was worse; that experience or jumping from the Beverley boom; it was just like the trap on a gallows, except that you had to step into the void. Maybe they opened the hatch with the first in the stick standing on it, just like a real gallows. I wouldn't know; I was cowering at the back of the queue, fretting that I would catch my chin on the far side of the hatch as I descended through it.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Photos taken at Blackbushe mostly prior to closure on 31 May 1960:
www.blackbusheairport.proboards.com/thread/3/photo-day?page=7 There are about 284 pages of Blackbushe photos many containing EC121s
www.airfieldresearchgroup.org.uk/forum/hampshire-airfields/1476-blackbushe-hartfordbridge?start=30 Photo no 37 is the main one you want.

Thanks...very interesting...

[Cornish Jack]

o,nb - Can't understand your problem lifting off Sharjah - even in 'Charlie, steam roller, oiled sand runway' days Sharjah was no problem.
As to 'boom' jumping. the doors opened inwards, so no possibility of inadvertent departure. However, there was a danger - as we experienced in K'sar ... but that's another (sad) story.

[brakedwell]

Here is a photo of both of the villains taken in 1958!


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1771x1001/esqq6506_fe1d89a8bc3eae0e8185c674c226e82de96385c8.jpeg

[Haraka]

o,nb - However, there was a danger - as we experienced in K'sar ... but that's another (sad) story.

The sad loss of the CoPilot is well known. I was exploring XB259 ( after I saw it land with the brakes on) at Farnborough in the late 60's,, walked up inside the tail boom , opened a door..........and stepped out in to space.
Luckily I grabbed enough to pull back.
IIRC Was not the Elsan right up in the tail boom beyond the para hatches ?

[old,not bold]

o,nb - Can't understand your problem lifting off Sharjah - It was Bahrain, with an even better runway than Sharjah, I suppose the problem was simply weight and temperature, and maybe lack of wind?

The Sharjah runway might have been OK for a Beverley, but as an RAF pal (Bimbo to his friends) and I discovered the hard way, was only just adequate to get a Prentice off the ground with 2 up at midday. Mind you, his was not an elfin figure, and the engine was on terminal life support.

Another abiding Beverley memory I have is a Beverley landing to inaugurate a new "crushed rock" runway at Beihan, (1961/2 ?) It was not an outstanding success, something about the layer of crushed rock wasn't deep enough and/or compacted enough. That evening, after the bigwigs had flown away in a Beaver (the Beverley was stuck, as i recall it) the RAF officer in charge of the 5004th Airfield Construction Squadron detachment, which had been there for well over a year, went totally doolally, to use the technical term, and had to be repatriated to recover.

[brakedwell]

Sharjah brings back memories. I first landed on the sand runway with a Twin Pioneer in 1959. My last landing at Old Sharjah, on the tarmac runawy, was with a civil Britannia in 1975. My other claim to fame was that I landed the first aircraft on the new runway in Dubai when I put down a Twin Pioneer on the first 500 yards laid when they were building the new airport in 1960. This was arranged by the IAL Satco at Sharjah, who was also in charge of Dubai at that time.

[Cornish Jack]

The sad loss of the CoPilot is well known. I was exploring XB259 ( after I saw it land with the brakes on) at Farnborough in the late 60's,, walked up inside the tail boom , opened a door..........and stepped out in to space.
Luckily I grabbed enough to pull back.
IIRC Was not the Elsan right up in the tail boom beyond the para hatches ?

The Co-Pilot was 'ours' and Andy Andrus and I held and comforted him while waiting for the medics.
Your experience with the door is odd. The only exit from the boom was via the freight bay 'climbing bars or through the floor hatch - two doours hinged to open inwards. Our Co's demise was due to the Movements crew opening the doors and placing the boom-loading ladder beneath it (not attached) while the Co was behind the Elsans, checking the internal controls, pre-flight. It was about 4 o'clock, so dark night and he exited the toilet door backwards - into nothing. The inevitable 'Murphy's Law' input was that this parfticular airframe was the only one which had not been fitted with the door-connected floor pins which would have prevented him opening the toilet door and avoiding what followed

[Geriaviator]

On subject of runway surfacing, anyone remember the baked gypsum of Khormaksar in the early 50s? Roads were in same material though upgrading started just before we left in 1953. The formwork was extra deep and as the concrete was starting to set it was flooded with (precious) water for a few days to prevent it from cracking under Aden's ferocious sun.

[Haraka]

[QUOTE=Cornish Jack;11379238]The Co-Pilot was 'ours' and Andy Andrus and I held and comforted him while waiting for the medics.
Your experience with the door is odd. The only exit from the boom was via the freight bay 'climbing bars or through the floor hatch - two doours hinged to open inwards./QUOTE]

Indeed, I climbed up in to the boom from the freight deck and walked aft. The stepping in to space"" episode was where the two doors were opened upward revealing a straight drop to the floor below. That Beverley never actually served in squadron service in the RAF so might hav been an oddity.

[JW411]

Old Not Bold:
Does this ring a bell?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/792x520/gaopl_3e6fc5846f4a1232c47a9c44b2fb0d55e79af8a8.jpg

[old,not bold]

Ah, it brings tears to my eyes; now resting in some aeronautical cemetery in South Africa, as far as I know. We has some fun together, me and that under-powered old banger (bought for £700 covered in bird **** in a hangar at Sywell, engine with less than 100 hours left to a major overhaul), as well as some very scary moments when I thought that I really had pushed my luck too far and would shortly shuffle off.

[Cornish Jack]

... and memories of many hours spent in the rear seat of similar airframes beating a regular flight-path around E Anglia. Regarding power, there was strong evidence to suggest that, even with the radio training fit , one such had completed a loop !

[denachtenmai]

TG507 of 51 Squadron, first flight after a Major, the prop spinners were painted in the Union Jack colours by a female painter and doper called Teresa ??
Flown by the mad
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x430/hastings_tg507_e0d8020c74d779459322829c7b11836fa6b88993.jpg
New Zealander (can't remember his name at the moment) pilot and the photo. courtesy of one T**y M****y.
Incidentally this was the only flight with these spinners as the Groupie had a sense of humour failure and made them be repainted red!

[tonytales]

Considering the Hastings seems to have been quite successful, why did the HP Hermes fall so flat? Granted, rebalancing the machine to allow adding a nose leg was a change but they both used the same production jigs and had good engines. Also granted BOAC did have an aversion to home-grown machines.

There must have been a weight and balance issue as there were no seats in the rear ten foot of open cabin. Seen at KIDL (KJFK) in fifties when a Skyways (I think) Hermes overnighted. Got to ride in cockpit on taxi over to our hangar. Roughly mid-fifties.

[washoutt]

If the CoG moved forward because of a nose gear, why then no pax in the rear? That move the CoG even more forward and could result in CoG out of range.

[Geriaviator]

As a youngster I remember the BOAC Hermes and Argonauts staging through Khormaksar, Aden, in the early 50s. I was told that the Hermes was more comfortable (quieter in particular) while the Argonaut was faster and had longer range. We loved its four Merlin engines but passengers didn't, they were shattered by the racket from the Merlins which replaced P&W radials in which the turbocharger and low exhaust damped down much of the noise. Of course the graceful TWA Constellations in their silver and red livery were the queens of the route. Hard to say how it might have ended up but from the mid50s there was no contest with the jets.

The dear old Hastings took us home to Lyneham, four Hercules with gaps in the rear doors beside me were raucous enough!

[Noyade]

Plenty of toilets.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x243/scan1250_a68f4eeac3ac4e943f7940ea9d748e19da3d28ca.jpg

[staircase]

One reason for the Hermes lack of success that I have seen quoted was the Hercules 763 engine. It seems that, initially at least, it was prone to failure due to the sleeve value seizing, and the fact that it had vibration problems in the Economical Cruise RPM range.

This vibration problem resulted in a higher than optimum cruise speed with an increase in fuel consumption, or a reduced cruise speed with a marked tail down attitude.

Some pilots also complained that operating out of hot and high airfields it was not very keen to leave the ground. One quote I have seen was that it;

‘dragged it’s tail on take off like a dog with worms!’

But I think basically we had an aircraft industry building aeroplanes in clapped out factories as a result of there being no money after the war, using wartime technology, and with a market that was essentially BOAC. That is sales that would be numbered in 10’s not hundreds. It was never going to sell in a mass market like the US, so with limited numbers being produced, why would the emerging continental carriers buy it. You buy American and you have engineering support all over the globe from ground crews used to the American Airframes?

Would you have bought Hermes or Tudor, when you could have a DC 7 or Connie, especially when you were struggling for hard currency and general Marshall was shipping dollars to Continental Europe in vast amounts?

Mind you wonderful piccie of TG507!

[Brewster Buffalo]

Wasn't there an agreement, when the US entered the war, that the US would supply the transport aircraft for the UK who would just produce combat types?
That would have slowed the design of UK transport planes for the post war market.

[DHfan]

It wasn't actually an official agreement, it just happened that way. Not least because we couldn't afford the resources to develop transport aircraft at the expense of combat type production.

[topcol]

I was stationed at Akrotiri mid 60's doing second line maintenance on the Canberras. One day a Hastings appeared in the circuit making a much more pronounced noise than usual. When it taxied in and shut down, the reason for the pronounced noise became apparent.
The propellers on the inboard engines were twisted out of shape, caused by contact with the sea on a transit from Nicosia to Akrotiri, thus the aircraft flew the rest of the way on the outboard engines. It was rumoured that the Captain had been demonstrating to the copilot the difficulty of judging aircraft hight over a flat calm sea.
A four engine change ensued.
Does anyone else remember the incident?

! remember it well as I was an Air Wireless Mech on Strike Wing at the time and several of us went down to look at the aircraft. It was parked not far from the runway threshold and I seem to recall that all 4 prop tips were bent at perfect right angles. There were quite a few others including a few officers who'd come to have a look at the miraculous aeroplane. The way I heard it was that the Hastings was approaching the threshold when it suddenly dropped too low causing the props to come into contact with the sea but the pilot gave all engines full power enough to plonk it down onto the runway threshold. I remember noticing that the runway began almost at the very low "cliff" edge so the Hastings was pretty low on its approach.

[topcol]

I saw this aircraft not long after after the incident as did several others who were with me at the time and the prop tips were definitely bent at right angles REARwards.