Employment Statistics oxford aviation academy

[wilempie]

When checking out the Employment Statistics of OAA, you will see that there are cadets now flying for major airlines like KLM, Singapore, Cathay and Qatar.
How is that possible? These airlines are asking 1500+ hours, aren't they?

[hollingworthp]

The stats only list when someone who had anything to do with OAA (i.e. did the ground-school only or the full Integrated) changes job.

It's not restricted to your first job.

Every time you change job you will reappear on the stats page - a bit misleading really.

{EDIT}
Turns out it was an honest mistake that I appeared twice on the list (I guess if they did it for everyone for every job move, the stats would be hugely misleading, showing hundreds of 'placements' every year.

[darkroomsource]

So every time someone who was 'touched' by OAA changes their job OAA adjust their figures to incorporate this?

Do you mean just changes the total for each airline or adds to one total without subtracting from another?


If you were that company, and you wanted to attract more students, what would you do?

Go back and re-read the claims, they don't refer to the figures in a way that would indicate that they are an accurate representation of the percentage of pilots who have taken the full course.

So they can report that pilot A, took a class or had their flight review, or an instrument check, or something, was a student. And that pilot A got a job with company B, C, D, E, and F. But since they don't list the correlation between pilots and jobs it comes out as:
Pilots who've taken courses: 1
Jobs obtained by pilots who've taken courses: 5

[SloppyJoe]

The cathay ones are joining as cadets. They had to do a 3 stage interview including flights in light aircraft to get a place on a course that will basically teach them to fly again and they then have jobs a SOs. Nothing at all to do with OAA.

[yippy ki yay]

The stats only list when someone who had anything to do with OAA (i.e. did the ground-school only or the full Integrated) changes job.

It's not restricted to your first job.

Every time you change job you will reappear on the stats page - a bit misleading really.

I'm not sure that's correct. As far as I'm aware the statistics are the same as the ones published in their building which are listed course by course (integrated and modular). They can't/don't publish your name and course twice if you have changed jobs...

In terms of KLM and Qatar - they start off as SO's. Cathay, as stated above, you go through full training again. Not sure about Singapore...probably as a SO though.

[Stallone]

Singapore?? I wonder they fly for which airline in Singapore

[Smell the Coffee]

The cathay ones are joining as cadets. They had to do a 3 stage interview including flights in light aircraft to get a place on a course that will basically teach them to fly again and they then have jobs a SOs. Nothing at all to do with OAA.


So they've shelled out £100k only to be accepted onto a course which is free for everyone else. You've got to feel a tad sorry for these people.

[A320Dreamer]

KLM had a few second officers trained there that then went to the 747 and 777.

I would imagine people not finding jobs and applying to the cadet schemes and re-do their training.

[norton2005]

Yep the cathay guys are re doing the training, I heard somewhere that they were re doing all the flying but that the groundschool may have been waivered if they did a short conversion course to hong kong atpl's!

And as for the qatar guys, they don't have to re do anything, they will join as second officers, I think its promotion to first officer after unfreezing the licence. However they have already been quoted the figure of at least 4 years to unfreeze the licence and get promoted, as with 2nd officer status, they will only be credited with half the actual flight time!! This is why someone I know ditched qatar after being accepted and went to ryanair instead!! I guess didnt want to spend 4 years as a safety pilot!!

[wilempie]

Oke, but how is it possible that these cadets fly with those major airlines? Can all cadets apply for jobs with i.e. Qatar?

[Xronos]

The OAA statistics represent the first job students obtain after leaving employment, not every job they get in their entire career.

Many major airlines run cadet schemes, or have a history of doing so, prime example being British Airways who will without doubt re-start this tradition at some point in the future. The likes of Qatar are starting to run such schemes through flight schools. In terms of it being a 'major' airline, well in terms of fleet size and customers, easyJet and Ryanair are major airlines even though they are low-cost, they take cadets and the flying is no different, operating the same a/c types as you would at BA or Qatar.

If you go through OAA, depending on the criteria of the airlines you are able to apply for the cadet schemes as they become available. The Cathay Pacific scheme I believe is not run through OAA and is a separate application.

[pug]

British Airways who will without doubt re-start this tradition at some point in the future

Is this likely? Or are they more likely to go down the BE type route? Surely its a cost they are not likely to want back when they really dont have to.

[Smell the Coffee]

Is this likely? Or are they more likely to go down the BE type route? Surely its a cost they are not likely to want back when they really dont have to.

Two months ago, the internal BA Flight Ops newsletter mentioned the possibility of recruiting some SSP (self-sponsored pilots) from the likes of FTE, OAA and CTC.

No mention of any kind of "Cadet" programme.

[pug]

Smell the Coffee, that sounds about right. I dont see why they would phase sponsorship back in when they know they can get people who have self sponsored, and still put them through a thorough assessment at the end.

Is the past relations with BA not the reason OAA has the prestigeous stigma about it?

[Smell the Coffee]

Pug, I can't claim to be an expert on OAA or its relations with other Companies ... so I won't comment.

I AM in a position to read BA's Flight Ops newsletter and speak to BA flightcrew, including those involved in recruitment, on a weekly basis.

None has mentioned any form of Cadet scheme on the horizon, and all have consistently mentioned the same old schools - that's just the way it is with BA. They take a very conservative approach, and like to deal with tried, tested and approved suppliers.

Rightly or wrongly.

[pug]

Thats fair enough, it was more of a general observation really.

It seems to me (and i must point out my very low 40 hours) that for OAA graduates the biggest opportunity is currently Ryanair. As far as i have worked out, the Ryanair route is not restricted solely to OAA graduates, or even intergrated for that matter.

[MIKECR]

I'd love to know how OAA come by their stats. According to the current league table, my lot took a couple of Pilots from them during 2010. Hmmm... interesting, as far as I know the company only employed 6 new FO's last year....of which the only connection would appear that 1 of them did his ATPL's on modular correspondence with them(several years previously!). What the other connection is, nobody seems to know:confused:

I get the impression that if you so much as even take a 'whizz' in that place then....well you know where im going!:}

[zakka]

This simply means that some of their students have ended jobs with these carriers (not necessarily first job), and they simply use this to advertise. It would be more interesting to know how many unemployed students they had in the past i.e. 10 years. Typically flight school propaganda.

[max_continuous]

OAA.com - Oxford Aviation Academy (http://www.oaa.com/pages/training_courses/ab_initio/employment_stats.php) ...


Just under one per day in 2011! Awesome!

I'm sorted, it can only be a matter of time before I get a call...

Utter, utter, utter pish; next they will be telling us that they taught Pontius his trade (well, they do like to crucify us...)

[biggles7374]

One graduate employed by Jetstar Asia in 2006.

How would that be? The Company didn't exist then!!!!


Netjets 16 graduates in 2009 and none since. This was a guaranteed employment programme when it ran. What happenned to the other 32 graduates that Oxford reportedly put through the Netjets programme?

[Xronos]

Pug

Sorry I was a bit un-clear, I was referring to the SSP programme BA have run and will mostly likely run again, taking cadets directly from flight school. I agree full sponsorship has gone, probably for good. My point is just that major airlines do recruit straight from flight schools (and often refer to them as 'cadets') and the likes of Qatar recruiting shouldn't be a surprise.

[Stallone]

Jetstar Asia Airways - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstar_Asia_Airways)

it was founded in 2004, first flight in December

why can't he be employed in 2006?

[redsnail]

Biggles, the cadets that were not given an Indoc date were offered a redundancy payout or long term leave of absence on a % of pay to help with the loans.

[MIKECR]

the cadets that were not given an Indoc date were offered a redundancy payout or long term leave of absence on a % of pay to help with the loans.

Crikey...I wonder how many other operators would have been willing to do such a thing. Dumped at the offset springs to mind.

[max_continuous]

A few of the NJE cadets who accepted the long term leave option were subsequently placed with other airlines through OAA schemes (usually self-funding a TR through OAA).

I don't know where NJE stand on this although as I believe some pilots who also took long term leave for the company are in alternative positions while on leave I guess it's not much of an issue.

I am surprised that the figures for OAA don't include all the cadets who did not accept the redundancy in addition to all the other recruitment as that would surely bolster the numbers. I would say that it is commendable that they don't list graduates in non-flying positions but as they have previously listed graduates who made it as far as the hold-pool before being left for quite some time and changing to alternate employers, it just strikes me as odd. In addition I doubt (actually I'm almost certain) they deleted the statistics for the original HP grads when they changed to other employers, but won;t have wasted anytime in adding to the numbers.

As for the feelings of non-NJE graduates on the issue of the cadets seeming to be popular with all the other schemes, well, personally I am happy for my friends and colleagues, we all want to get into a flying position and I hope they enjoy it. I feel a little let down by OAA as after hearing about the third instance of this occuring in as many months I suspect some politics may be involved while "the rest of us" are steered towards RYR and EZY, but I am a product of the machine and it's my bed so I'll lie in it.

[redsnail]

Folks who are on job share or long term leave of absence are encouraged to fly. NJE has no issue with crews flying for other operators while participating in those schemes. I know a few cadets are doing just that. It's good for them that's for sure.

If while you are on job share off and find a full time job, I believe the crew member is released from NJE with no penalty.

[x933]

Interesting reading.

Crucially it doesn't state if Oxford assisted in placing a graduate (by means of contracts, a word in the right ear, referral, etc) or if the graduate sought employment off of their own bat, somewhat undermining any argument for their careers service.

And unless i'm missing something it is not clear as to if it is the year of graduation or the year they were placed - I suspect the former but purely based on being able to name individual cases where the overall company number is quite small.

I can think of enough friends that found employment themselves having graduated with no further input from Oxford.

[norton2005]

It doesnt matter if oxford help you find a job, or if you find it yourself, you'll be put onto the employment statistics. And your put on there as soon as you have passed your interview, so even if you are in the holdpool, your in there. And if you find another job whilst your in a hold pool and switch airlines, that stat for your previous airline stays on the list. Prime example, one of the aer lingus numbers from 2009 was from a chap who was in their hold pool, he is now actually flying with easyjet because never came out of that holdpool, but the aer lingus stat remains. Second example, the cathay pacific numbers were off the cadets own backs, not oxford. So to sum up, if you train with them on their app course, once you have a job, regardless of how you got it, you'll be on the list!

[captainsuperstorm]

you will be on list even if you end up in a fast food.
oxford=lies lies lies.

[Xronos]

The most baffling thing from this topic is the number of people who expect Oxford to find them all a job, and the phone to be ringing to them every minute. If you thought that would be the case then you clearly didn't research enough or listen at an open day because they never ever promised that. If you're going to be a professional pilot you should be able to use initiative and make things happen for yourself. This can't always happen to everyone, so explore both avenues and hope for the best.

And also why should Oxford not use the statistics when you get a job yourself? How does anyone know whether being from Oxford helped you get that job or not? At the end of the day, if you went there and you got a job you got it because you had been trained to sufficient standard, and they provided that, so they should be able to use it as a statistic.