D.C.3 Elevator Locks

[GERBY]

Many years ago, a B.O.A.C. Captain told me that during the war he took off in an R.A.F D.C.3 from an airfield in Calcutta, with the external elevator locks in place.
He went on to say that once he realised what he had done, he did a very cautious circuit and landed.
Was he spinning a yarn, or could this be true?

[seacue]

I was a passenger on an Ozark Airlines DC3 eons ago. I was extolling the airline to my seatmate. He was very quiet. Then he told me about the time he was a passenger on an Ozark DC3 which took off with the external elevator (or was it rudder?) locks in place. They did a very conservative circuit and landed.

So, yes, I'd guess that the Captain you quote was telling the truth.

[John Farley]

One aspect to consider with these stories is that the simple nature of the DC3 external control locks is such that it is possible they may not make the surface totally immovable and airflow and vibration would also tend to reduce the severity of their grip. Another point is that the loading of the aircraft could have been fortuitous in that it had the aircraft close to trim with the elevator in the 'locked' position. I certainly would not suggest the stories were ludicrous.

Neither would I suggest it was appropriate to run some flight tests with the locks in to get more data.

[con-pilot]

Call me paranoid, but we would always put all the external control locks in the cockpit. Before we would start the engines, it was on our checklist to verify that all five control locks, along with the gear pins, were in sight in the cockpit.

Never had that problem, thank God.

[Fareastdriver]

When the Boeing Aircraft Company were demonstrating the B17 to the USAAF for the very first time it flew with the control locks in........but not for long.

[pasir]

... The DC3 incident sounds very similar to an event described in
a book on ACM Bennet - Apparantly during the 1948 Berlin airlift ACM Bennet took off in great haste in a heavily loaded Tudor - only to realise too late that the external locks were still in place - but managed to climb out and gain a little altitude - complete a greatly extended circuit and land safely - Mainly so far as can be recalled through careful use of throttles and trim control.

...

[avionic type]

On the B.E.A. Pionairs we had control locks held on by a bungee rubber clipped to a small tab with an hole in it and were removed by the departure engineer on the first flight of the day, on turn rounds the controls were centralised and the Auto/pilot was selected and being hydralic the servos locked and kept them in that position .I,m ready to be corrected if my memory is letting me down, it was a long long time ago.:O:O:O

[twochai]

IIRC (and who does, at our age) an Airworthiness Directive was issued in the late fifties specifying that all DC-3/C-47 control locks must only lock the controls in an offset position, theoretically preventing the aircraft from becoming airborne?

[stevef]

Interesting. I've seen the occasional offset control lock set on non-UK-registered Daks but can't recall any CAA AD on the subject. Was it cancelled? There was a 1940 Douglas Service Bulletin (# 187/187S) addressing the possibility of inadvertent take-off with locked controls whereby it was suggested (impracticably!) that the locks be attached to ground rings by cables that would pull them free when the aircraft taxi-ed forward or 10-30lb loose weights to do the same. Whatever happened to full & free checks?
Avionic type - the autopilot servo unit wasn't really much good for other than light' damping' because of the primary flying control cable stretch; it wasn't a positive lock. I forget what the A/P overpower valve setting was- 140lb" comes to mind - and the limit stops/structure would have been bent by a good gust on the large control surfaces long before the servo unit disengaged.
I'm sure you remember those follow-up cable disconnect bullets as well - a real pain to sort out once the A/P control unit pre-tensioned pulleys had whipped them forward and you needed to remove the nose panels and hatch to sort it all out. :{
One good modification I've seen on N-reg DC3s was the reduced span flaps that allowed un-handed aileron control locks to be fitted. There were more than a few outboard flaps damaged on extension by wrongly installed ground locks.
My habit after an engineering pre-flight check was to lay out all the control locks, gear pins and pitot cover just inside the freight door in their relative positions so that the pilots could see instantly that everything was free.
Slightly off the main topic - a South African pilot told me that he once took off from an unmanned airstrip in an Islander with the aileron lock fitted. A rudder-only and differential engine power circuit got him down to rectify the situation.:eek:.

[barit1]

Although the accident report does not mention it, I have information that this DC-3 accident (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19620418-0) was the result of control locks still in place.

[stevef]

There's a horribly graphic video (and I'm not going to provide the link) of a large twin doing exactly the same during a take-off after major modifications. Pilot qualifications were questionable for the tests, as were plainly the pre-flight checks. The gust locks were still engaged...
There was a case of locked elevator controls on a DanAir HS748 several years ago at Sumburgh and the aircraft ran into the sea after a failed take-off. The cause of that was unapproved repairs to the gust lock mechanism when foreign registered.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CB8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDan-Air_Flight_0034&rct=j&q=hs748%20accident%20sumburgh&ei=Uk1DTbnLDsmxhAePltWVAg&usg=AFQjCNELPuL4wKLVQGlAJjhKu4hvOPQ06A&cad=rja

[albatross]

In 1975 we watched as the crew of a DC-3, belonging to a gov't agency, walked up to the AC got in, fired it up and taxied out. As it taxied away we noticed the gear pins and locks were still in.:eek:
A very quick sprint to the FSS who called them and told them the control locks were still on, they were on the button, running up the engines by this time.
There was a long pause whereupon they announced that their runups now were complete and they were returning to the ramp.
They came back to the ramp, shut down, went into the terminal, had a coffee, then announced to one and all that they were now ready to depart.:ok:
Back to the AC they sauntered, took off all the control locks very carefully, fired up and departed.
They operated into the airfield in question many times - never saw them fire up, taxi to the runway. do a runup then return to the terminal before or after that day.:D:D::D

[A37575]

A rudder-only and differential engine power circuit got him down to rectify the situation.

Makes one wonder how the automatic monkeys in their fine jets would cope with something like that if they just happened to fly a light aircraft for fun...

[A37575]

In 1975 we watched as the crew of a DC-3, belonging to a gov't agency, walked up to the AC got in, fired it up and taxied out. As it taxied away we noticed the gear pins and locks were still in.
A very quick sprint to the FSS who called them and told them the control locks were still on, they were on the button, running up the engines by this time.
There was a long pause whereupon they announced that their runups now were complete and they were returning to the ramp.
They came back to the ramp, shut down, went into the terminal, had a coffee, then announced to one and all that they were now ready to depart.
Back to the AC they sauntered, took off all the control locks very carefully, fired up and departed.
They operated into the airfield in question many times - never saw them fire up, taxi to the runway. do a runup then return to the terminal before or after that day.:

What an extraordinary coincidence. Around 1974 a DC3 flight calibration aircraft of the Australian Dept of Civil Aviation was in a similar situation at Melbourne airport. The control locks had been removed but due to a mis-understanding between the two pilots each thought the other had removed the gear pins. The landing gear oily red flags flapping in the prop slipstream as the DC3 was doing its run up was seen by an alert airport safety officer and quick phone calls made to ATC.

The rest of the story was almost identical to the Canadian story, except in this case, one of the radio boffins hopped out of the DC3 and removed the gear pins while the DC3 was still in the run up bay

[Props]

5 Locks and 2 Pins seems to be the call I remember on the DC-3 and brought back memories of the early fifties when you walked out to the aircraft and with the doors shut started up.
Start-up Clearance and Slot -Times had yet to appear.

[John Farley]

Start-up Clearance and Slot -Times had yet to appear.

Those of us old enough to remember such super times (when even radio was an option - after all what were signal squares for?) are indeed fortunate. Mind you it helped to avoid the airliners that had their wings drop off in the cruise and the fighters that pitched up in a turn. Memories of the past can be very selective. Total thread drift - sorry Pop.

[con-pilot]

5 Locks and 2 Pins seems to be the call I remember on the DC-3

Don't forget the pitot tube covers. And no, turning on the pitot heat will not burn the blasted things off, as a crew I know tried. Idiots..........:*

We had to replace the pitot tubes, I should have taken the cost out of their salary. Not for forgetting to remove the covers, but because they continued the takeoff. :rolleyes:

My actual comment; "What the HELL were you two thinking?"

[pasir]

.... having had the experience of flying with an insect blocked pitot head I can confirm the result makes a most uneasy flight - especially on finals !

...

[GERBY]

Many thanks to all of you who answered my query about elevator locks on DC3s / C47s. Reading through the replies reminded me of a DC3 flight I did just over forty years ago.
I was flying from Westport to Wellington in New Zealand when the aircraft encountered what I would describe as severe turbelence.
The N.A.C., D.C.3 was bucking around so much, that the stewardess in her crew seat was throwing up, and the lady sitting next to me started to pray. In between her tears and appeals to the almighty , she asked me if I could hold her baby as she thought it was in danger of being torn from her arms. Luckily, the baby was wrapped in several blankets and I was able to grip the little bundle understanding the responsibility that had been literally placed in my lap.
Once out over the Cooke Strait, the turbulence subsided and I was able to hand the baby back to its much relieved mother.
The Stewardess looked deathly white for the remainder of the flight, but like a true professional regained her composure before we landed.
Ah! you might say, what about the infant / baby extension seat belts? Well to be honest, I don't remember seeing any.
The next DC3 flight I did (Mt., Cooke Airlines) was even stranger.

[barit1]

pasir:.... having had the experience of flying with an insect blocked pitot head I can confirm the result makes a most uneasy flight - especially on finals !


Depends on whether you're trained for this.

The WWII Texan (Harvard) syllabus at one time had the student's ASI obscured below 100 mph. The student learned handling by other cues - wind noise, attitude, control stiffness...

[Exaviator]

Having flown quite a few hours on DC-3s the one thing that I notice that is missing throughout this thread, is the item on the Pre-Take Off Check List:

Controls = Full & Free !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Prangster]

Place Rolls Royce Hucknall Flight Test Establishment. Time About 1630Z on a warm Friday afternoon in April 19 plonk

SATCO "Ere wassat Dak up to"

'Dak', having lumbered round the turning cirlce at the end of 26 has lined up/ revved up and seems to be sitting having a ponder almost as if thinking about aviating

SATCO 'Cooee, got a problem cock'

'Silence'

By now I've got the duty nockerlers on him and am surprised to see a gnomic figure trot into view from around the fin. (Fus door on blind side of tower)

'Someones on the runway George says I. Hang on no....It's only one of the crew......Removing the elevator locks...'

Dak 'Sorry for delay Hucknall....cleared for take off?'

SATCO Cleared as planned. Enjoy your flight back to Farnborough lads

By now DAK is lumbering past the tower proudly bearing its Empire
Test Pilots School markings.....

10 mighty steely eyed trainee/would be TP's had spent the day checking out RR's finest. I often wonder what would have happened if he's lumbered off the runway and thumped onto the newly constructed but not yet open M1

[roving]

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19590126-0

Apparently the crew decided to park on the civil dispersal whilst they popped off for a spot of lunch.

Because of the risk of tropical storms, the Malaysian ground crew were in the practice of locking the elevators on the Malayan Airways DC3s and naturally assumed that the Royal Air Force locked them too.

[roving]

209 Sqn, which was 267 Sqn two months earlier, had three DC3s.

This is one of them.

[M-62A3]

This link takes you to a page commemorating a well known and tragic RCAF Dakota crash were 21 airmen died in September 1946, because one elevator had not been removed before take-off.
http://gent-family.com/Estevan/estevandakotacrash.html

Tony Broadhurst

[roving]

That accident really is a shocker.