New Bell Helicopter Program?

[Mel Effluent]

Bell has announced the formal launch of 'Magellan', formerly known as Project X. See here for details:

Sky Talk: Bell launching new helicopter program (http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2011/01/bell-launching-new-helicopter-program.html)

There is not much detail on the product, but it will be interesting to see if it is expected to compete against the AW139, EC175 and S76D.

[rotorrookie]

About f****ng time for the dinosaur to wake up.

[Hedge36]

Not having finished my first coffee of the morning, I have to wonder if they're considering a 419... wouldn't that compete fairly directly with the 407?

[widgeon]

Wot no new huey ?
One would assume if they launched 419 they would discontinue 407 . It is funny that Agusta's attempt at this has not been a great success ( or are the more 119 around then I think ).
Are they even considering a low end 206 replacement ( Ec120 competitior ) ?.

[Gemini Twin]

Sounds like a PR push to get everyone fired up prior to HeliExpo.
The Bell communique states:

"An official program tasked with bringing a new prduct to the marketplace in response to our future customers needs."
Question, how do you know who your future customers are let alone what they will need? Try finding out why a lot of your existing customers have gone to Eurocopter.
and:
"Represents the collaboration of a dedicated cross functional team of internal and external resources"
and:
"Many individuals with skill sets and exceptional talent will begin the exciting mission of developing a new product to meet the mission of developing a new product to meet the mission needs of our commercial operators."
Question, This is a new concept? Shouldn't you have been doing this since day one?

[PANews]

I guess we are not going to be sure until March..... [HAI]... big noise... clouds of smoke and a new project.... but there is plenty of room here on this thread for a few wild guesses....

How about a three engined UH-1 with 20 seats. The Bell ExtraHuey 101....

I guess its more likely to be a 139 competitor but with the US preferring the single perhaps that guess about a 119 competitor may not be off beam. The 119 did not work over-well in Europe or Stateside so its now off to the Far East [India China] to chance its arm.... 1970s rooted technology with a single engine did not work for Bell so why did Agusta go there as well?

Never really sure why Bell did not stick to the 417 [re-engined 407] and a quick fix even after the military ditched it.... looks like there is a Middle East market interest... and now there is that Eagle conversion of a 407 around to entice them. Most times someone brings out a Bell conversion Bell copy them [e.g. Tridair and the 206LT.... the LT was a great machine as long as you did not actually want to leave the home airport].

Yes, for a couple of months this could be guessers corner! Hope no-one finds out the truth too early ;)

[EN48]

I have to wonder if they're considering a 419... wouldn't that compete fairly directly with the 407?


Maybe, but if the 419 is a 429 with one engine, perhaps not. The 429 is considearbly larger inside and out than the 407, so the 419 would be to the 407 as the 206L/407 is to the 206.
I'd guess a price on the 419 at least $1million more than the 407.

I have often wondered why Bell did not do a deal with Agusta to manufacture the 119 under license in the U.S. to fill out their product line. The 419 would likely fill this gap.

In any case Bell needs to get on with some innovative product development before their market share drops to zero. AFAIK, the 429 is the only Bell commercial product currently in production whose basic design is less than 40 years old. I fly a 407 which I find to be a great acft (except for a cockpit uncomfortable in the extreme for taller pilots), but its a 206 with lots of "stuff" stuck on to it.

[Tickle]

When I saw the thread title I had hoped for curiosity's sake that it would be the JRX coming back into development.

[SASless]

My money is on a Bell 414ST, using dynamic components off the latest USMC Huey. Perhaps on wheels or skids as an option and layout similar to the 214ST.

[BedakSrewet]

The development of the 214 and 214ST was actually financed by the Shah of Iran in the early 70's . Except for 'inflated' versions of the 206 and 204, nothing much happened since in terms of R & D.

Hence Eurocopter invaded the USA and decided to stay.....

[Troglodita]

:eek:


I have to wonder if they're considering a 419


SASless will tell you why this won't work in Nigeria! :E

Trog

[Mechta]

Troglodita, :ok: Sounds like a scam to me!

[widgeon]

It may have a problem selling in japan as well 4 ( shi ) is death and 9 (ku) is torture. We actually had a Japanese customer that would not accept a helicopter serial # 2049.

[SansAnhedral]

I cant find anywhere where Bell has "announced" anything.

You can always count on Bob Cox to leak an internal memo like this, which then gets picked up at other news outlets as some kind of official release.

[HELISeo]

That would be great:ok:
End with the intensive care on older ship:ouch:
We are actually operating a Lama mainly Logging and construction (no sh... pax business :=) and looking for the future....
We need to take a lap away from our competitors, so the option of a modern medium is very effective:ok::ok::ok:
Let me wonder what Bell would bring out:cool:

I was flying both Koala and 350 B3, but they are about the same; 407 may pull less because of the airframe; maintenance is far easier on the 350 against both competitors, so I hope Bell would improuve it with a new product.

Resuming:

A NEW SINGLE ENGINED MEDIUM WITH SOME 2'000 SHP to fill the gap between the 2'500 / 3'000 lbs (of 350-407-119) and the K-Max 6'000 lbs on the hook would be great:hmm:.
Some 4'000 @ 6'000 ft 20 C >>>> that would break the market:D:ugh:

Let me hope so and stay safe!:E

[Ian Corrigible]

No more bets, gentlemen.

Bell Textron Awards Rogerson Kratos 412 EP Magellan Cockpit Display System (http://www.rogersonkratos.com/11.html)

I/C

[ShyTorque]

About f****ng time for the dinosaur to wake up.

Please don't speak about Capt. N. Lappos like that.... :oh:

[Ian Corrigible]

:=

Nick has left the building.

I/C

[61 Lafite]

Lets hope they don't downgrade it to try and become an R66 competitor... :)

[SASless]

Well now....a Bell 419 .....probably sold by the marketing team that sold the Osprey to the Marines.

[Ascend Charlie]

Mr Corrigible (I met your cousin Mr Dirigible) are you saying that Nick no longer works for Bell?:confused:

[Aser]

Anyone with info about the "new" 412EP?

[Ian Corrigible]

http://i.imgur.com/TK0mxqW.jpg

Or something like that...

:E

I/C

[chopper2004]

I think there was a thread on here, regarding a new helo being developed by Bell, prior to this year's Heli Expo however I can't seem to find it on here so please forgive me

Anyhow from what I gather the project - Magellan is development of a medium weight airframe for offshore purposes completely new design from Fort Worth to replace the 412 and can carry up to 15 passengers to compete against the likes of the EC175 and the AW139.

However the other reference to Magellan was retrofitting and upgrading the 412 with Rogerson - Kratos digital cockpit with EVS, improved situation awareness and 4 x digital displays etc etc.

There's plenty of references from various aviation news sources online however I can't seem to find an official Bell Helicopter release let alone an artists impression of whats brewing in the XworX?

Cheers

[Aser]

I understand it will be a ugraded 412
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/440172-new-bell-helicopter-program.html

[Saint Jack]

The Magellan project is expected to be unvieled at the next HAI. It's unlikely to be yet another 412 upgrade as this could be announced anytime. I believe Magellan will be a 'clean-sheet' design with a bias towards the lucrative offshore market. BHT fully realise that the 412-family is showing its age against the AW139 and up-coming EC175. The EC155B1 has not caught on as much as some would have hoped while the S76D appears to be a non-starter for offshore work.

If Magellan is a 412 replacement, everyone in the offshore industry will be waiting to see if Bell have eliminated the Achilles Heel of this helicopter and one that is the bane of HLO's world-wide - that with a full load of passengers, it has to be loaded and unloaded from both sides.

[tottigol]

Quote
If Magellan is a 412 replacement, everyone in the offshore industry will be waiting to see if Bell have eliminated the Achilles Heel of this helicopter and one that is the bane of HLO's world-wide - that with a full load of passengers, it has to be loaded and unloaded from both sides. :rolleyes:

Oh, and here we were thinking that its weak points were the sllloooooow speed, i fuel burn rate and small payload, not to mention its notoriously delicate C Box.
I guess after 3000 hours on it I had it all wrong.:p

[SASless]

I found the either/both side access was a benefit....not a detriment!

Is sure makes it a lot easier when doing multi-stop flights with just a few passengers getting on and off at each stop.

[Sir HC]

It would seem the Eagle Single has been a decent STC. Although their timing was probably a little unfortunate considering the GFC.

Perhaps if bell put the soft-in-plane head and some of the EP upgrades to that engine (or a single PT6-67C), they would have a great alternative to the 205's and 212's without a lot of R&D.

Secondly, I'd love to see a wider cabin, flat floored 407 with something like a HTS900 to really compete with the AS350's (IMHO where Bell has been so lacking in the last 20 years)

[Saint Jack]

Tottigo (Post #27): Given that the original basic design of the present 412 first flew in 1956, yes 1956 (as the UH-1) and that the Twin-Pac version first flew in 1969 (as the CUH-1N), it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the performance isn’t quite up to more modern types in terms of speed and fuel burn. But with 3,000 hours on type you must know some of the history of the aircraft you fly – don’t you? This is essentially what I meant when I said “…the 412-family is showing its age…” Your comment about a “…notoriously delicate C Box...” seems more of a local issue as the 412 is certainly NOT known for this reason. I suggest you check your maintenance standards and practices.
SASless (Post #28): “…either/both side access was a benefit....not a detriment!...” I couldn’t agree more. However, it does become a detriment when, for example as I witnessed myself, arriving on a helideck with a full load of passengers and the HLO is supervising disembarking them from the right-side and, after a few moments, the two passengers sitting in the left-side outward facing seats feel they’ve been forgotten and get the last passenger to open the right-side door for them and proceed to disembark themselves unsupervised. Then, standing on the helideck on the opposite side of the helicopter from the HLO who doesn’t see them, they suddenly remember that their baggage was loaded in the tailboom so they walk around the rear of the ‘turning-and-burning’ helicopter to retrieve their baggage. All of this time, the co-pilot is screaming at them, the pilot is screaming at the HLO and the HLO is screaming at the two passengers who are blissfully unaware of what has just happened. That is what I was referring to. With your extensive experience I’m sure you’ve come across this scenario, or slight variations of it, and I’m sure that tottigo, with his 3,000 hours of 412 time, has.

[Gregg]

Bell published its plans for 412 Block upgrades earlier this year, pgs 6-7:

http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/MungoBlobs/1012/19/rb_Q1_11.pdf

[filthymutt]

Can you actually use the words New Design & Bell Helicopter in the same sentence?
Don't they just like to recycle old airframe ideas?
Seems that when they get that urge to build something new, the go in with the Italians or someone as a joint venture, then they seem to lose interest and give the project away. Leaving the other side very happy, especially in the case of the AB/AW139.

Seems to me like Bell has given up.:zzz:

Here in China, last summer they had their first Heli-Expo. Everyone knows China's helicopter market is set to explode. I went for a look.
Funny that, Eurocopter, Agusta, Sikorsky, Robinson even Rotorway and the Russian manufacturers were there BUT WHERE WAS BELL? No where to be seen. Sound marketing strategy? Mmmm:ugh:

[rotorrookie]

2011 Heli-Tech Duxford, no Bell stand, just some bell guys handing out business cards,
put a class cockpit in a 407 or 412 and call it new helicopter....barely

[Aser]

Sky Talk: Bell to build new commercial helicopter in Amarillo (http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2012/01/bell-to-build-new-commercial-helicopter-in-amarillo.html)

Regards
Aser

[HueyDog]

I have been informed by contacts in Bell that they plan a major announcement of a new product at the Heli Expo in Feb. Most guesses are similar to what has been mentioned previously on this thread with a larger helicopter to compete with the Agusta 139 EC175

[Lonewolf_50]

Acer, thanks for that link. Perhaps Magellan will help Bell find their way back to being a premier helicopter manufacturing concern.
This is not a change in our manufacturing and final assembly strategy. Mirabel remains our principle commercial aircraft assembly center and commercial airframe design center of excellence; and Amarillo remains our military assembly and delivery center of excellence. Engineers in Mirabel assigned to the Magellan development team will continue that work.
FWIW: I suggest, on the strength of the article's coda cited above, that the Bell consider renaming themselves Belle Hélicoptère :}, and that Textron consider renaming the tilt rotor division Semper Fly.

Hat, coat, exit ...

[SASless]

I suggest.... that the Bell consider renaming themselves Belle Hélicoptère , and that Textron consider renaming the tilt rotor division Semper Fly.


Touche' Mansewer!:D

[Aser]

Humm... :hmm:

16 Jan, 12 Just before Christmas, Bell filed a flurry of Trademark applications with the US Patent and Trademark Office. In particular, theses ones – each one listed as a trademark for a name of a helicopter or aircraft.
- 525SMT
- Super Medium
- Super Medium Transport
- Super Medium Class
Bell looks to “Super Medium” for future success with new 525SMT model | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source (http://www.helihub.com/2012/01/16/bell-look-to-super-medium-for-future-success-with-new-525smt-model/)

Interesting times

Regards
Aser

[SansAnhedral]

Bell Helicopter (http://www.bellonamission.com/)

Altitude is about to get a whole new attitude.

Don't miss the most exciting product reveal at HELI-EXPO 2012. Join us at 11:30 a.m. on 2.12.12 at booth #9846. And be one of the first to experience just how relentless we are about listening to customers.

[Mel Effluent]

From the Star-Telegram Vision for Bell Helicopter project emerges | Business | Dallas Business, Texas Business,... (http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01/17/3667202/vision-for-bell-helicopter-project.html)


Bell Helicopter will soon take the wraps off its most ambitious nonmilitary aircraft development program ever, an estimated $500 million effort to develop a long-range helicopter to haul workers and supplies to oil rigs at least 200 miles offshore.

Fort Worth-based Bell will unveil details about the new commercial helicopter at a trade show in Dallas next month, and company officials aren't talking about it until then. But the Star-Telegram has learned a few key details about the scope of the effort, which could boost the company's employment in North Texas.

Launched a year ago as Project Magellan, the new helicopter will likely be known as the Bell 525 Magellan Super Medium Transport, based on trademark applications Bell filed last month.

According to individuals familiar with the project and internal documents provided to the Star-Telegram, it would be the biggest helicopter Bell has ever built, weighing about 91/2 tons when fully loaded with passengers, baggage and fuel.

With twin turbine (jet) engines driving a new five-blade rotor, the helicopter can carry 16 passengers and a crew of two. It could fly at least 200 nautical miles, perhaps close to 300 miles, then carry back that many people on one tank of fuel, according to the documents provided to potential suppliers.

It's a major undertaking for Bell, which for more than a decade has considered building a big helicopter to serve oil rigs and do other long-range jobs.

"With an all-new, clean-sheet-of-paper design, it's a $500 million investment, at least," to bring such an aircraft to market, said Richard Aboulafia, aircraft market analyst for the Teal Group forecasting firm in Fairfax, Va.

The new helicopter would likely help Bell maintain and perhaps increase employment in Texas.

Bell does much of its research and development work at its Xworx facility in Arlington. Officials have said they plan to assemble the copter at the company's military aircraft facility in Amarillo. Bell factories in the Fort Worth area would likely manufacture many parts, such as rotor blades and transmissions.

It's ambitious in more ways than one. Bell, according to one document, expects to have the aircraft designed, built and tested by mid-2016, with first delivery to a paying customer that year, although such schedules are typically optimistic.

The company also expects robust sales of 60 to 70 aircraft a year by the end of the decade. That would be 50 percent or more of the current sales in the medium helicopter market, a very aggressive forecast for a market with established competitors with modern aircraft.

"Everybody," Aboulafia said of Bell and its competitors, "thinks they're going to get 50 percent of the market."

One company, Italy's AgustaWestland, has taken a big slice of the offshore oil market in recent years with its AW139, which seats 12 to 15 passengers and has a range of 200 nautical miles. Bell was once a partner in that program.

AgustaWestland has sold as many as 80 AW139s a year recently, Aboulafia said, and the company is working on a slightly larger version, the AW189.

Another rival, Eurocopter, expects to deliver its new EC175 this year. It's designed to haul 16 to 18 passengers short distances or to ferry 12 passengers as far as 190 nautical miles one way. At the upper end of the market are even bigger aircraft, such as the Eurocopter EC225 Super Puma and Sikorsky S-92.

Bell's only product in that market segment is its 412EP, a much-upgraded version of the Vietnam-era Huey military helicopter, which lacks the long range and capacity of new aircraft. Bell plans to announce the aircraft's latest version, the 412I, in Dallas as well.

Over the longer term, Bell appears to believe that the new Magellan can cut a large slice out of the middle of the medium offshore market, between the smaller and larger aircraft.

"It's a very difficult proposition for Bell to launch this aircraft now because there's already Sikorsky, Agusta and us," said Marc Paganini, president of American Eurocopter in Grand Prairie, the U.S. arm of the European manufacturer. Paganini doesn't expect the market, now 120 or so helicopters a year, to grow significantly.

The Magellan is an important undertaking for the future of Bell, just its second all-new commercial helicopter. Its launch comes as the company has strong cash flow to invest in development, thanks to its V-22 Osprey and military helicopters.

Military sales are expected to taper off, so Bell will need a strong lineup of modern commercial helicopters to stay successful.

[heli1]

Helidata News adds the UH-1Y upgrade development and 414ST design aspects into the mix in its lataest issue this week,which figures.Bell has been flying a 214ST in recent months on research.

[chopper2004]

Bell Helicopter (http://www.bellonamission.com/)

[hillberg]

:=Bell had a 214st in the hangar "Mechanic course" area:{, Bondo & a spritz of paint, :confused:slide a new looking roter system on top ,:rolleyes: A super duper wizz bang panel in the front :}& the neat leather seats with curtins in the back,:eek: Don't forget the wet bar & lots & lots of cupholders.:ok:

[malabo]

I remember Bells as the only manufacturer that religiously installed ashtrays in all their helicopters. Another symptom of how out of touch they are with the times.

Long before CRM, you knew if the crew wasn't getting along if the copilot lit up a smoke and didn't offer one to the captain.

[Alloa Akbar]

@filthymutt - Everyone knows China's helicopter market is set to explode Really? Don't hold your breath.

Eurocopter, Agusta, Sikorsky, Robinson even Rotorway and the Russian manufacturers were there BUT WHERE WAS BELL? No where to be seen. Sound marketing strategy? Yep absolutely spot on strategy.

How many helicopters are actually in production in China? How many firm and fixed orders have been placed?

Speaking as one who has spent the last year in China, attending all sorts of business seminars and conferences and the like, I can tell you that I have already downgraded my short term interest in China from "Morbid curiosity" to "I'll have the crispy duck and pancakes".

As for Bell, I recall Bell telling me back in 2008 about the 41-X program, which as I recall was going to be a updated 412.. Come to think of it, Bell and China - Made for each other!!

[Spunk]

I remember Bells as the only manufacturer that religiously installed ashtrays in all their helicopters.

... and it was the very first part to break in our 407 (some pax knocked it off). Don't ask me how.:ugh:

[Shawn Coyle]

If you don't install ashtrays, you have to put in a 'No Smoking' placard...