Paying Back Pilot Loan

[FlyingPhilA]

Hi,

Just want a fair idea of how most people who have done the intergrated course have payed there debt back. If you take out a secured Loan. How long after training do you have to start paying it back? Am I wrong to say that when you do start paying it back its around 1000 p/m.

Thanks

Any other infomation would be great.

[GAZ45]

Phil,

I have always wanted to become an airline pilot like many people here. I have spent the last year or so planning on how to embark upon my pilot training after I graduated from university. I looked into (in great detail) a certain flight school that offered an integrated course. It was around 80K (which I’m pretty sure all the others are around that mark too). I attended aptitude tests, and had 3 or 4 financial meetings.

I had no money at all to contribute to the course, so I would have had to take the full 80K loan from a bank that the school is associated with. The deal with the finance would of meant that I would be paying back around £1100 a month normal payments, or I think it was about £950 a month ‘reduced payments’ (If I remember correctly, you could have a period of time where you repaid a reduced amount).

The loan had to be secured on a UK property with enough equity in it to cover the training cost. The loan required credit checks on both you and your guarantor. The loan also had to begin being repaid 18 months after the commencement of training (in other words the next month after you graduate from the course, you start your repayments, pretty soon!). I decided against it in the end, not because I have an issue with integrated courses, but just because I simply couldn’t afford to do it.

That’s just my situation obviously. I met other guys on the assessment days that were able to make personal contributions ranging from 20K to 80K! Depending on how much you can contribute means that you can reduce the monthly repayments quite considerably to more manageable amounts.

All the best,

[FlyingPhilA]

Thanks, Really informative, Just what I was looking for. Such a shame that in this day and age nearly every dream is decided by Money.

[GAZ45]

It is a shame, but if it’s your dream don’t let it put you off! Spend a few hours on this forum and talk to guys who are airline pilots. If that doesn’t inspire you I don’t know what will! Every person I have spoken to has a different and very interesting story (although you do inevitably hear some disheartening ones).

I have decided to go down the modular route because it’s the only way I will be able to afford to fund my training. I suppose different ways of training and funding works for different people, but it certainly is a shame that this industry seems to be dominated by your bank balance.

[Jay_solo]

If you want to go integrated, you have to pay £60K + for training, no getting around it.

If you don't have that money saved, or can't get a secured loan, or simply cannot stomach the idea of paying £1000 per month for 5 to 10+ years, then go modular.

Same theory, same planes, similar training, same exams and same qualifications, but just more flexible and cheaper! Modular will allow you to work and save and keep your debt low or non existent. And airlines don't really care if your modular or integrated. Their concern is:

Can you fly?
Are you typed, current and how many hours you have?
Can you be trusted in a bad situation?
Are you a team player?
Are you reliable?
Are you the type of person I'd want to sit next to for 6-10 hours a day?

Do a financial plan like if you were starting a business, and in the end, if you realise you cannot afford £1,000 per month on top of rent, car-travel expenses, bills, food and socialising, then forget the integrated route!

Good luck! :ok:

[Piltdown Man]

...this industry seems to be dominated by your bank balance.

Which is fortunate otherwise there would be an even larger glut of un-employed pilots. However, flying isn't that unique. Someone has to pay for a Gas Council registration course and to get a Part P certification takes a fair bit of time, effort and money. I'll also take a guess that a graphics student also has to "pay" for their course as well. The reality of modern life is that if you want someone else to pay for your education, you have to earn the right (or failing that, have the right connections).

[redbull7]

Quote:
''I had no money at all to contribute to the course, so I would have had to take the full 80K loan from a bank that the school is associated with. The deal with the finance would of meant that I would be paying back around £1100 a month normal payments, or I think it was about £950 a month ‘reduced payments’ (If I remember correctly, you could have a period of time where you repaid a reduced amount).''

Hi Gaz,

Dont suppose you could tell me where you received this offer could you??
I am still looking around for companies but to no prevail!!!

[GAZ45]

Ryan,

I didn’t have any ‘offer’ so to speak. I just approached a flight school that provides integrated training. I went on an open day for the course and then arranged to have my aptitude assessment. During both of my visits the school gives you a presentation on all aspects of the course including funding etc. I then had a meeting about finance with a member of staff there and decided I could not afford to do the course.

Do a search on integrated schools on these forums and lots will come up, or if you want more information from my experience just PM me.

[GAZ45]

PM,

Quote:
'However, flying isn't that unique. Someone has to pay for a Gas Council registration course and to get a Part P certification takes a fair bit of time, effort and money. I'll also take a guess that a graphics student also has to "pay" for their course as well.'

I would also take a guess that a plumber or graphic designer hasn't paid 60K before even becoming noticeable to an employer. I also dont think I've ever heard of any 'Pay 2 Plumb' scheme's.

[EI 214]

Hi Phil, paying debt back

I personally think two of the most important steps to take to begin an aviation career are 1) get a third level education 2) get work experience. Neither need to be aviation related. Both of these combined will offer you an alternative option if your training doesn't work out or if in the future your flying career takes an unfortunate turn. When you do start your aviation career as a pilot get very good loss of licence/ medical insurance. More 'options' to help pay back the debt if things go wrong.

I would also have to respectfully disagree with Jay Solo regarding the airlines view of modular vs integrated. I do believe people from integrated courses have a better opportunity when it comes to gaining an airline interview. On most application forms they do ask whether you trained on an integrated/ modular course. If the Airlines had no preference they wouldn't ask.

I will PM you later with specifics on how much, when to start paying, what bank, the possibility of interest only payments etc.

[Whirlygig]

I also dont think I've ever heard of any 'Pay 2 Plumb' scheme's.A full plumbing qualification takes fours years (not 18 months for pilots) and requires an on-the-job apprenticeship. In these economic times, most plumbing apprentices don't get paid for this so yes, "Pay 2 Plumb does exist and will continue to exist until their is a shortage of plumbers..

Do teenage wannabee's still believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus? No? Why still believe that an £80k course will get you a job? Here's a harsh reality - you can't have everything you want in life so make the best of what you've got.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Whirls,

Exactly. A friend of mine recently completed his Gas Safety Certificate course and experienced that. He even agreed with his "employer" how much he would be paid only to find out after he'd done the work that he wouldn't be paid at all. Sounds similar to a lot of Pay to Fly schemes! Although perhaps not quite the same financial outlay.
But what you rather do... unblock someone's toilet or fly?:}

[OutsideCAS]

But what you rather do... Unblock someone's toilet or fly

Well, both jobs involving being up to your neck in **** mostly so I fail to see the difference.....but on balance the plumbing job sounds better.

[GAZ45]

It's peculiar to me that people are comparing pilot training debt to plumbing debt. I've just had 3 friends taken on a plumbing/electrical course as apprentice's. All paid training with a local company called western power.

I do agree with what people are saying about the fact that most job markets are suffering in this economic climate, and that there are quite a few other careers out there where you need to pay to train. But I simply won't agree that becoming a plumber or graphic designer is any way comparable in terms of financial outlay to becoming an airline pilot.

I would also like to point out on the ' there is a pay to plumb' comment. If what you are saying is correct, it still isn't the same in this industry. I don't know of any airline or company that give you all your training from start to finish for free but without paying you. In the airline world that would be called a full airline sponsorship wouldnt it?

By the way I never said it was right or wrong or otherwise that you had to pay so much to become a pilot these days. I only said it was a shame thats the case for people like me who has dreamt of this career all my life.

[Whirlygig]

I suspect the main differences are the costs involved and the glut of young wanabees who want to be pilots. It's an economic supply and demand reality. Shame? Maybe; it's also a shame that I was not quite talented enough nor beautiful enough to be a rock star but hey-ho; that's life and it ain't fair.

[pug]

I do believe people from integrated courses have a better opportunity when it comes to gaining an airline interview.

Im just getting to the end of my PPL now (waiting for some decent weather, and get uni exams out of the the way, to do QXC) and am still in two minds about whether to take the plunge, so many will be more clued up than me.

I was under the impression that the vast majority of fATPL holders now are taken on by FR on their SSTR scheme? Also on that scheme there is no difference between a modular student and intergrated? Same with FlyBE? I also believed that currently only Easyjet was the airline taking cadets from the intergrated schools with a chance for others going through the ATP scheme?

Im not trying to kick off the old debate on this, but when it relates to funding then surely getting a good backup that pays well, and working as you build up ratings (so remaining relatively debt free) is the best and safest way to go? Some smaller flying clubs that offer the training can have direct links to airlines, and have a much smaller output than OAA, CTC etc that you may still get looked after once you finish? Just a thought.

[FlyingPhilA]

I will PM you later with specifics on how much, when to start paying, what bank, the possibility of interest only payments etc.I will PM you later with specifics on how much, when to start paying, what bank, the possibility of interest only payments etc.

EI 214

Yes, thats sounds really intesting. Would be great if you could PM me with the stats.

[P-T]

I had a Cadet scheme through OAA and had to take a loan out for the £66k course fee's. I secured this loan to a UK property (the bank then forgot to do this and now I have a 55k unsecured loan!!!)

I then spent another £30k (of my own money) in living expenses over 18 months (as I was supporting an newly born baby and a wife on state maternity benefit), on a mortgage, bills and renting in Oxford.

The options available for me was to pay off the loan 0ver 5 or so years and pay back £1100 a month or extend the pay back period to 11 years and reduce the payments to £780 a month. I opted for the extended 11 years payment time, as this allows me to pay the minimum per month when I am struggling with cash, but I can also pay in as much as I want on top of that. So for example if I had a good month with overtime I could add in an extra £2k payment that month and there is no issues with that.

As far as having a enough money every month, then I can only comment on a jet job salary. Take hoe basic is approx £2600, plus allowances of approx £500. Leaving plenty to live on once the initial £780 is paid.

Personal opinion : It's a great job regardless of what all the whinging :mad: say about it. The people are great, the time off is good and the pay only gets better every year.

The market is on the up, just bite the bullet and do it. Best thing I've ever done. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you want anything else

[Spid]

I think this is an important topic.

So 8 years after the last post, I wonder how is the market. And if it’s a good investment on the short, medium and long run. (I think only in the long run)

The training costs 70k

Living cost (if you live with your parents…) 18k? for 18-month course (That’s already fast) (well this cost can be cut down a little)

Extras such as interviews with companies, initial payment for a type rating (5k?), can sum up to 10k euro.



I think a realistic final budget until you start to make money can be up to 100k in a 18-24 month period since the start of the course. Correct me if I’m wrong.



You can have a monthly payback of 700 to 1000 euros, so your initial salary would be that amount less. Normally starting salaries (at least in Spain, don’t know the rest) are 2500euro to 3000euros if you are lucky, what results in 1500 to 2000 euro. That’s an… OK situation but is not fantastic. Maybe that salary can increase in the following years, but during around 10 years, you are subjected to a big debt. Precisely those 10 years in which your salary is minimum…



This being said, it’s true that you wouldn’t have the salary a pilot deserves from the beginning, but you would be paid in a dreamlike life. It’s a huge economic sacrifice, I guess only us, that are crazy would take that red pill.



Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I will start my training in 6 months, and some experienced opinions would be appreciated.

[rudestuff]

If you're worrying about paying back loans then you probably can't afford to go integrated. Unless you are on a sponsored scheme and guaranteed a job, you'd be daft to go integrated. Modular costs less than £40k. A £25k loan will set you back £300 a month - the rest can go on 0% credit cards.

[inabw]

The training is very expensive; if you take a look around Eastern Europe you can find some schools that start from - 0 to Atpl - with a price around 40K; with extra voices you can easily reach 50K. Should be enough if you are a smart person.
My personal experience it's with a modular training: I started with a PPL in a local aeroclub, paying step by step (1 year to obtain the PPL ) then I did the Night rating in Hungary, then I continued with the atpl theory (distance Learning) and hour building, traveling a lot to/from Poland to take all the 14 ATPL exams. All this stuff during my life, with a full time job.
For the last stage of the training, the CPL and IR/ME i taken a loan with the bank, around 25k and, if everything goes right, next month i will finish the training (it is missing the MCC course but i will think about it later when i'll back to work in October) and now are 3 months that I am not working, I requested holidays (no salary for 3 months) to finish the training in Poland.
For sure you need a very well paied job, at least 1500-2000 euro/month, but i did it, living alone and paying a rent for the house where i live.
So, it's hard honestly, you should be ready to cut everything and unecessary things, but I think if you really want this and if you believe it, you can smash the difficulties, reaching your goal.
Anyway, you need to plan everything accurately, maintaining a correct budget during the training, in my case 3 years.
I don't suggest to take a big loan, taking the risk to lose your home;
If you need any suggestion write me, i am happy to help any person.
Take care and good luck everyone!!!

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Whilst I agree with you there RS, I would add that I feel your figures are a little on the low side.

From personal experience training modular, my total expenditure will come in at £70k. That's for: PPL, night rating, hours building, ATPL course (distance), CPL, MEP, IR, travel, accommodation, all test fees, medicals and equipment. That is however excluding: food/lifestyle costs during training, MCC, JOC and the cost of any type rating bond payment should I be required to pay one. Hopefully not. Whilst I could most likely have cut between 3-5k from that total with some better planning, if you're taking ATPL ground school full time at an ATO that will bring it back up to roughly the same amount, or a little bit over. If you go over minimum hours, also expect to pay more - significantly so if you go over on CPL/IR or have to retake.

A personal unsecured loan from my bank for £25k, taken when the rates were at the lowest they had been for years, is £330 a month for 7 years.

Having almost reached the end of the modular route, would I recommend it to those who can't afford to worry about integrated costs and re-mortgaging houses? Yes absolutely. It's a great way of training which puts the control, timing, and the maturity to manage your own budget, in your hands. You learn a lot when you haven't got somebody spoon-feeding you. I would however caution those that can't budget well. This route will bite you if you don't do your planning and calculations meticulously.

[Sky Sports]

Quick question. If you started off on the modular route, and then, after completing your PPL, you wanted to speed things up, could you join an integrated scheme and would they give you a discount?

[Spid]

Is that true?
I was about to start an integrated course in January just for the sake of finishing earlier than a modular.
Your case is the first one I find that is shorter via modular course.

Could you recommend what should I take into account to accomplish a modular course so fast?

Thanks