Citation Stallion

[Mago]

Hello everybody,

The other day a friend of mine, a Citation Jockey, was telling me wonderfull things about the Stallion.

He flies a ISP and is convincing his boss, who is for an upgrade, to transfrom his old carriage into one of those, he said that for their target it is the best choice.

What do you think?

[cldrvr]

How in the world do you want us to answer not knowing the requirements, mission profile or budget.

Aside from that, why trade in an old klunker for another one?

My 30 yr old Saab is on its last legs, should I get a 29 yr old Volvo? :rolleyes:

[Mago]

I am an ATR driver, so this is different stuff for me.

He usually flies 600 to 800 nm carrying 3 pax but want to upgrade to have 1500 to 1800 and 2 pilots and 4 pax.

Please.....it is just a little curiosity for me. Me thinks the reason is money...:rolleyes:

[XEMS]

Don't think this would save him any money, but this outfit is doing the same thing with the Hawker 400.

Nextant Aerospace 400XT Beechjet Modernization Program (http://www.nextantaerospace.com/)

Numbers really look good, and I think he might gain a bit of room over the Citation. Haven't flown a Hawker before, so I could be way off base.

[bizjets101]

Sierra Industries (http://www.sijet.com/6771e479-cabc-42e1-adf0-a07feabcb2c5.aspx) Citation Stallion

[cldrvr]

So, over 3 mill to upgrade a 30yr old airframe or a 5 yr old Bravo on MSP, hmmm tough choice.

[CL300]

For an owner flown aircraft, it is a done deal. indeed the performance of a Bravo but SINGLE pilot...Easy on the ferries, or when you do not want someone else with you on your hide aways tours.

But if looking for 2 pilots ALWAYS, this is NOT an option, it does not make any sense.

As far as the Beech 400 is concerned; runway requirements are not very effective for this flying and it is the noisiest aircraft as per today's point of view.BUT a LOT of airframes to choose from.

[eelb]

When Sierra first started the FJ44 conversions in the early 2000's, it made more sense dollars wise. There wasn't much competition for the money, as far as speed and fuel flow went. The only thing close were the early model CJ's, but they were 20kts slower, and had less range. The CJ2 was new at the time, and had comparable numbers to the Sierra FJ44 500/501's. But the CJ2's purchase price was about 3 times more than what you could buy a converted 500 series for. Hence the Eagle II/Stallion was a viable alternative. Now, with the oldest CJ2's being around 10 years old, the price spread between them and a converted 500 series isn't that much. I suppose if someone has an old Citation where the Pratts have reached TBO, and they want to keep the airplane, then maybe the conversion is worth it. But buying an airframe that old, and then putting that much money into new engines doesn't seem worth it.

The Bravos, Encores, etc. are in a different category operating cost wise, than Williams powered Citation products. Check out the burns of a CJ2 vs a Bravo at comparable cruise speeds and altitudes. Not to mention overhaul costs. That's one reason why Cessna stopped production of the Bravo (and soon, if not already, the Encore) in favor of the CJ series.

The Hawkers are a huge move up for someone considering 500/525 series Citations.

[eelb]

Rereading the thread, I see the Hawker referred to, is the rebranded Beechjet. I was thinking of the 800.

[Mago]

The owner has the frame, a 501 SP, and he flies a little by himself on escapades, so It must be single pilot and not very complex in order for my friend not to loose his job.....;)

He told me about the garmin 1000 upgrade and the long range one too.


I think the the pratts are due for OVH, he told me that they saw CJ2´s and there where more expensive and with less range and with mid time engines.

Do VLJ get much corrosion?

[Mago]

Hey CJBOY,

I spoke with my friend and told him about the CJ2 and said that they were evaluating that one too (I think they have not decided yet) but he told me that with 6 on board they only get about 800 nm with aganist 1300 with the old one reengineered, also is the matter of selling the old one.........

Do not kill the messenger!

[Flyer2008]

Mago

I'm in the corporate aircraft sales game and I dont see how a Stallion can ever stack up against the CJ2. Just does not make any commerical sence but Sierra Industries do infact still move along the Stallions even at present.

CJ2's at present are going from the $2.7 region upwards.

Your owner MUST think about the resale issues !

[Teton Rotor]

My partner in our Super S-II started with the Stallion to fly 400-600 nm legs around the central northwest. We were drawn to the Super S-II for a couple of reasons:

1. Performance with the Williams FJ 44-3A engines. We fly out of a 6,000 ft field at 6,200 msl with summer temps in the mid to high 20C at MTOW with no problem. William's engine support on TAP elite is outstanding.

2. Range: we fly regularly from KDIJ to KACK 1809 nm in one leg with plenty of reserve. FL430 burning 820 lbs/hr 410 kts. That wing is amazing. Slow flight is no problem, majority of our landings Vref 90kts. After flying ot for 200+ hours I think the people who complain about the wet wing (TKS) don't really have an argument. We are in potential low altitude icing easily 9 months out of the year and quite like the wet wing. (Just let it drain prior to putting it in the barn!)

3. Acquisition cost: 1986 6,200hrs 4,200 landings, engines 260 hrs (Sierra conversion in 2011) new interior 2010, new paint 2011 $1.9MM

We redid the cockpit with the Universal 3 screen glass and two Garmin GTN 750's (The Type 25 is a pain in the neck for avionics) All around it fits our long and medium range requirements with great efficiency and speed.