CAMBRIDGE

[compton3bravo]

I see Cambridge Airport (previously called Marshall Airport Cambridge) has decided to expand its services to include 24hr opening, refrubish the passenger terminal, etc. It also sees ''a range of regional passenger services''. The full story can be seen on the BCC News Website but unfortunately I cannot seem to link it.

[Ian Brooks]

Is this it Compton3bravo
BBC News - Cambridge Airport sets out plans for future (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-12179478)

[LGS6753]

Will Stansted survive?

[compton3bravo]

Yes thanks Ian. Besides Stansted what about Luton and Norwich. They must all be really worried. Probably take a Jersey service for a few weeks in high summer - remember the British Midland Viscounts!

[derelicte]

What's the obligatory waiting time before it gets renamed London Cambridge?

[Ian Brooks]

That will be when Ryanair move from STN to cambridge

[Cyrano]

Watch out Stansted. Just announced: flights from Cambridge to Dôle (http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/143873/danube-wings-to-introduce-cambridgeas-first-international-link-/) in France, twice weekly in an ATR for the summer, operated by Danube Wings (!). (Given the OTT enthusiasm of the airport director in the press release, it's just as well that this isn't a real route to a real destination with a known airline, or the poor chap might have a coronary.)
What's the obligatory waiting time before it gets renamed London Cambridge?
See well-known Cambridge landmark (http://www.aeroportdolejura.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/visuel-londres.png) in this poster. :rolleyes:

[Buster the Bear]

The service avoids nav charges and routes low level under the bridge!

I thought that Southend were expecting that series of flights?

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "See well-known Cambridge landmark (http://www.aeroportdolejura.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/visuel-londres.png) in this poster"

So it's already happening. If FR start up there could it become "London North"?

[davidjohnson6]

Anyone reading this working at Cambridge ?
All systems go for return of scheduled flights ?

[papabravowhiskey]

Went out on the inaugural flight from Cambridge to Schipol yesterday. Flights operated by Darwin Airlines with a Saab 2000. Flights were far from full - I'm not sure that there has been enough advertising - but it will be interesting to see if they can get enough business to make it pay. They will have to make their money from business traffic, I think, though the promotional fare we paid was pretty good.
PBW

[davidjohnson6]

As it's been almost 4 weeks since the route started up, anyone living in or near Cambridge able to report on how Darwin is likely doing ?

Having seen scheduled passenger flights from Oxford struggle on more than 1 occasion, despite the oft-claimed "bookings are better than we expected", am interested as to whether Darwin are managing to make a better go out of flying from Cambridge. Would be interested to know how visible the local marketing has been, the reception it's had in the business community, what sort of passenger loads there were (1st day of flying is not representative), etc...

Yes, I know the CAA will publish provisional stats in mid October, but I'm an inpatient b*gger who wants to know earlier rather than later !

[No RYR for me]

The flight I was on was great but the load was lower than the number of people handling the aircraft. Ok they were still training staff so that is probably why they outnumbered us. :}

There was some advertising downtown so let's hope they have learned from the Oxford disaster...

[davidjohnson6]

CAA provisional stats are out for Sept 2013
Amsterdam AMS - 1155 pax on 51 round trips = 11.3 pax per one way flight
Geneva GVA - 264 pax on 12 round trips = 11 pax per one way flight
Milan MXP - 333 pax on 13 round trips = 12.8 pax per one way flight
Paris CDG - 199 pax on 25 round trips = 4 pax per one way flight

As Darwin flies scheduled, I've ignored charter flights

Assuming a Saab 2000 with 50 seats, load factors are
Amsterdam - 23%
Geneva - 22%
Milan - 26%
Paris - 8%

I'm not 100% on the number of round trip flights flown (particularly on the Geneva route) so if anyone has better information, please do say

For a first month, the load factors are less than ideal but I guess it's posssible that Amsterdam, Geneva and Milan might get into healthier numbers given a bit of time.
Not sure what happened with Paris though - am guessing that it's difficult to compete with 45 mins by train to King's Cross followed by the high frequency Eurostar

[compton3bravo]

Although I don´t know- easyJet seem to do rather well out of Luton (average 20,000 monthly) and have done for a number of years even with a First Capital Connect service straight into St Pancras next to Eurostar. I would suggest the Darwin operation out of Cambridge will not last too long I am afraid with those sought of load factors.

[davidjohnson6]

compton - you may well be right, but it's possibly worth noting that Easyjet fly Luton-Paris 19x per week (3x on weekdays and 2x on weekends), making a day trip for work quite possible whether you live in the UK or France
Darwin fly Cambridge-Paris 6x per week (not Saturdays), and at times which make even an overnight trip for work really quite inconvenient.

CBG 0950 CDG 1200 12345--
CBG 0900 CDG 1110 ------7

CDG 1240 CBG 1240 1-3-5--
CDG 1655 CBG 1700 -2-4--7

[LTNman]

Main story on BBC Look East last night was the poor passenger loads on the new Cambridge routes. BBC iPlayer - Look East - West: 22/10/2013 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03dt0g0/Look_East_West_22_10_2013/) The link will only last until around 6:30 tonight.

[fenman]

Return fares to USA from £320 announced

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Cambridge-International-Airport-announces-flights-to-USA-from-320-return-20131023103728.htm:)

[NickBarnes]

Passengers statistics have been released for October
They are;

Amsterdam 1146
Paris 459
Geneva 162
Milan 198

Still very poor I believe not sure how many sectors flown but figures are very Close to last month although Paris has improved whilst Geneva and Milan have dropped but again could be due to sectors flown so if anyone knows that would be good

[Cyrano]

Passengers statistics have been released for October
They are;

Amsterdam 1146
Paris 459
Geneva 162
Milan 198

Still very poor I believe not sure how many sectors flown but figures are very Close to last month although Paris has improved whilst Geneva and Milan have dropped but again could be due to sectors flown so if anyone knows that would be good

Very very rough calculation, assuming for the sake of simplicity a 4-week month and frequencies in line with those originally announced (http://www.cambridgeairport.com/news/-3) (I'm happy to be corrected by those with better data):
AMS 24/week -> 4800 seats over 4 weeks (24% LF)
CDG 12/week -> 2400 seats over 4 weeks (19% LF)
GVA 6/week -> 1200 seats over 4 weeks (14% LF)
MXP 8/week -> 1600 seats over 4 weeks (12% LF)

Unless the capacity was reduced hugely compared to the original schedule, those are truly shocking load factors. (And I assumed a 4-week month so the actual load factors may be a little worse.)

Media reports have suggested that Darwin may be in talks with Etihad for a shareholding. If this is the case and if something comes of it, I would assume that Etihad would have to change something here pretty rapidly: either focus on feeding EY traffic at AMS or CDG (and advertise it very heavily), or call a halt to the Cambridge adventure.

[davidjohnson6]

Cyrano - I hope you'll forgive my tweaking your figures slightly

Amsterdam, assuming 31 days ant not 4 weeks - 54 round trips = 5,400 seats, so load factor = 21%

For November, Paris seems to have been reduced to 4 round trips per week, and Milan goes down to 3 round trips per week

[NickBarnes]

Yeh think it was a little more than a 4 week month but still even those loads you have shown are terrible, can't see darwin lasting much longer at Cambridge if it continues like this

[virginblue]

As I have mentioned in another thread, Darwin has filed for slots at Dusseldorf, with one of the daily flights given as CBG-DUS. From the slot filings, it appears that it has to do with a link up with airberlin (which would also fit in with the Etihad stories as EY literally keeps airberlin afloat with direct and indirect cash injections).

[Cyrano]

Well, as expected, Etihad has taken a 33% stake in Darwin and will rebrand it Etihad Regional:
WSJ story (http://blogs.wsj.com/middleeast/2013/11/17/etihad-eyes-brand-boost-in-darwin-airline-deal/)

Interesting times for CBG!

[Nextprop]

A remarkable development. However I am still not convinced of the desirability of 2 stop itineraries to access the wider Etihad network.

[virginblue]

Not sure what the point of CBG - DUS for Ethihad Regional is. If it is about feeding AUH flights, Etihad also serves AMS, CDG and MXP.

[papabravowhiskey]

Using the existing services out of Cambridge as feeders, there are some seriously good prices to be found to long-haul destinations: we have booked to fly out to Japan, with a very civilised start from Cambridge, for a very competitive price. Dunno if the checked-in luggage can be checked through, but it beats slogging over to LHR/LGW if you are local!

PBW

[NQWhy]

Yes, luggage will be checked through.

[Cyrano]

Not sure what the point of CBG - DUS for Ethihad Regional is. If it is about feeding AUH flights, Etihad also serves AMS, CDG and MXP.

It's more likely to be about feeding the Air Berlin hub at DUS, since AB is part of the Etihad "foster family" too.

[sxflyer]

I concur with papabravowhisky, I'm not truly local to CBG but it takes me no longer to get there than it does LHR. Spending my Christmas break in Malaysia, just over £500 each. It was some saving against fares from LHR and the total journey time with 2 changes wasn't too dissimilar to 1 stop from LHR.

[virginblue]

CBG-DUS v.v. is one daily flight, arriving into DUS at 0810 am, doing a LCY rotation and returning to CBG on a 2:40 pm departure.

The morning arrival connects with the 10:40 am morning departure by EY to AUH, the afternoon departure with the 1:00 pm arrival from AUH opb AB and chde-shared by EY.

For airberlin's contiental network, the flights are ill-timed. Between 09:30-12am, there are - at least during the winter timetable, just 8 departures - two domestic flights, one two Rome and the rest to Turkey and Spain aimed at IT/leisure traffic.

[01475]

I really want these flights to work as flying from Cambridge is a dream. I was also on the inaugural AMS flight and it was the most civilised of my life. My alarm went off after I'd have arrived at Stansted, and I've never cycled to an airport before.

I'm massively surprised by seeing more flights rather than less, though. I can't imagine why you'd fly to Paris when Eurostar is so easy (ok, so you have to walk a few hundred yards from Kings Cross to St P, but on the other hand it takes you to not Charles de Gaulle).

It can't work for short haul because I doubt there's a destination that attracts enough pax from CBG in its own right, and because if you have to change but there is a direct flight from STN (and lets face it, probably there is) then suddenly it's less hassle to go to STN.

That leaves either competing against LCCs using an S200 flying from an empty airport on cost (not likely) or chasing passengers changing onto long haul at an airport that might also attract a decent number of passengers itself is what's left. So that's Amsterdam covered...

... leaving me wondering what's with all the other places they're trying to fly to as well?

But of course I never said any of that, what I'd actually encourage them to do is start flights from CBG to RIX to connect with the Air Baltic network... just for me :-)

[davidjohnson6]

Flew out of CBG this week.
Bought ticket 2h15m before flight - paid only 20% more than the lowest entry-level fare. Seems worryingly close effectively to a flat fare policy. Why book in advance and pay for a flexible ticket, when you can book the same day as you fly but pay little more than an entry level fare ?

Told off for arriving at checkin 25 mins before a flight with just 8 passengers and no other passenger flights for hours afterwards. 40 min checkin is essential it seems. You can impose all the procedures you like but there needs to be a reason behind them.

When another passenger at boarding asked handling agent about small number of paying pax, enquirer was told that because they-who-must-not-be-named are involved, it must all be fine and the future is rosy.

Lounge at airport and flight itself along with service were top notch, but think somebody in management has some work to do...

[NickBarnes]

8 pax on a 50 seat aircraft is terrible whatever way you look at it they won't be making money on it

[Buster the Bear]

Etihad Regional! I wonder when the 'Gulf bubble' will burst. The airline industry is cyclical and it will happen, I guess when their oil runs out. Spend it whilst you have it!

[johnnychips]

I think the idea is to invest in airlines and airports, as a hub to and from the west and the east, as one form of insurance and income for when the oil runs out. They don't seem to be making a bad job of it at the moment. (Sorry, nothing to do with Cambridge).

[No RYR for me]

Any updated figures available on the routes from Cambridge?

[davidjohnson6]

CAA stats should be out early next week

Provisional Airport Statistics Notes | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=81&pagetype=90&pageid=12184)

[getonittt]

malpensa service cancelled from the 30th march 14 and AMS reduced to daily at the same time.

[NickBarnes]

with the loads on these services this is no surprise, and they may all go in the future if poor loads continue

[Buster the Bear]

Did anyone think it would work?

Minoan were just the same at Oxford.

To make Regional work, you must start from a small base, not numerous destinations.

Darwin means just what to folk in the Cambridge area?

If your locals are not aware of your product, what hope do you have?

Maybe Etihad will throw £millions at Cambridge.

You just cannot start up routes with minimal advertising despite what your sales team tell you.

Pick one or two routes, make sure the airline can connect you onwards, or failing that undercut the market for 24 months.

[tws123]

From 30 March 2014, the Milan-Malpensa route is cancelled, and the Amsterdam route reduced from 12 to 7 weekly frequencies. Still no news on the possible Dusseldorf routes.

[NickBarnes]

CAA stats are released, but Cambridge and it's routes do not appear at all := wonder why :rolleyes:

[Jes]

its

London City have no figures either. It's provisional.

[insuindi]

And inbetween the two STN is also lacking figures.

[davidjohnson6]

Nick - the CAA provisional stats are released over a period of a few weeks. On the initial release date, data for approx 75% of airports is released. Over the following few weeks, the remaining airports are added. Weekly updates of provisional stats are usually published on Fridays

Provisional Airport Statistics Notes | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=81&pagetype=90&pageid=12184)

[virginblue]

Still no news on the possible Dusseldorf routes.

My understanding is that Darwin has been unable to secure the required slots at DUS (which is severly slot constrained). They hold some noon-time slots, but these are more or less useless for their plans.

[NickBarnes]

Nick - the CAA provisional stats are released over a period of a few weeks. On the initial release date, data for approx 75% of airports is released. Over the following few weeks, the remaining airports are added. Weekly updates of provisional stats are usually published on Fridays


London City have no figures either. It's provisional.


my mistake:uhoh:, sorry all

[SpringHeeledJack]

My understanding is that Darwin has been unable to secure the required slots at DUS (which is severly slot constrained). They hold some noon-time slots, but these are more or less useless for their plans.

If their investor really wants to change that situation they can do so merely by 'asking' Air Berlin to give up/swap the requisite slots to suit their onward long haul departures.



SHJ

[virginblue]

AFAIK, airberlin has no slots at the required times (and as most AB flights are operated by DUS-based aircraft, a slot exchange is not as easy as it appears on paper as it would ruin the aircraft's rotations for the whole day).

[davidjohnson6]

1,708 scheduled passenger at Cambridge in Nov 2013.

Breakdown from the CAA so far for Cambridge is:
Amsterdam - 1,061
Geneva - 240
Milan - 206
Paris - 201

This would suggest that 1,708 passengers flew with Darwin.
I believe in November there were
51 AMS round trips - 12x per week - 21 % load factor
13 GVA round trips - 3x per week - 18 % load factor
13 MXP round trips - 3x per week - 16 % load factor
17 CDG round trips - 4x per week - 12 % load factor

With 94 round trips, this suggests an average of slightly more than 9 passengers per flight on a 50-seat aircraft, so an average load factor of 18.2%. Of course, some routes will do better than others. As has already been mentioned, effective late March 2014 CBG-MXP will close and CBG-AMS will reduces from 12x weekly to 7x weekly

Yes, November is a quiet month for commercial flying in Europe, but these passenger numbers must be of significant concern to some people at Darwin airline and Cambridge airport.

[davidjohnson6]

Dec 2013 stats

Amsterdam - 1103 pax
Geneva - 335 pax
Milan - 209 pax
Paris - 226 pax

I'm presuming around Xmas, some flights did not operate - I'm guessing all day on 25+26 Dec and the evenings of 24+31 Dec there were no flights. This would indicate
AMS - 47 round trips - 23% load factor
GVA - 12 round trips - 28% load factor
MXP - 14 round trips - 15% load factor
CDG - 17 round trips - 13% load factor

Overall, 10.4 passengers per flight, or an average load factor of 21 %

Slightly better than November but still a lot of improvement needed

[SWBKCB]

Marshall names executive to grow commercial business - 1/24/2014 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/marshall-names-executive-to-grow-commercial-business-395200/)

[TSR2]

Dillon-Godfray was previously Oxford airport’s business development director, says Marshall

Obviously needs a challenge.

Oxfords December figures -
ATM's -77.8% on Dec 12
Pax Dec 13 -91.1% on Dec 12.

[Buster the Bear]

I stand by comment #41 above.

[01475]

Just tried to book my summer holiday flights; was willing to take the risk that Darwin will still exist and operate flights from Cambridge by then.

They've changed the timetable to what? :-( The current timetable of two flights a day three days a week is more useful than a daily late evening flight. That's a) no use if I'm going to stay in Amsterdam and b) No use if I'm going to change at Amsterdam :-(

[All names taken]

1,708 scheduled passenger at Cambridge in Nov 2013.
<<Breakdown from the CAA so far for Cambridge is:
Amsterdam - 1,061
Geneva - 240
Milan - 206
Paris - 201

This would suggest that 1,708 passengers flew with Darwin.
I believe in November there were
51 AMS round trips - 12x per week - 21 % load factor
13 GVA round trips - 3x per week - 18 % load factor
13 MXP round trips - 3x per week - 16 % load factor
17 CDG round trips - 4x per week - 12 % load factor>>

Dear god so happy I'm not an investor.
We're talking Imperial Airways 1920s load factors here.
Stop it now before more good (but naive) peoples' money is dispatched down the tail pipe.

[virginblue]

Slot applications by Darwin at DUS (for flights to CBG, LCY, TXL) have apparently been withdrawn as no suitable slots could be obtained. Not sure if this will have some effect on the remaining CBG summer schedule.

[davidjohnson6]

Jan 2013 stats

Amsterdam - 1,097 pax
Geneva - 356 pax
Milan - 169 pax
Paris - 136 pax

This would suggest that 1,758 pax flew with Darwin
I believe in January there were
AMS - 52 round trips - 12x per week - 21 % load factor
GVA - 13 round trips - 3x per week - 27 % load factor
MXP - 13 round trips - 3x per week - 13 % load factor
CDG - 17 round trips - 4x per week - 8 % load factor

From March:
Amsterdam goes from 12x weekly to daily
Geneva is reduced to 1x weekly (Saturday)
Milan is cancelled
Paris is cancelled

Looks as if Darwin's adventure at Cambridge is coming to a close

[virginblue]

Looks as if the LEJ and CBG operation is combined so that it can be operated by a single, LEJ-based Saab 2000. The aircraft will do LEJ-CDG twice daily, LEJ-AMS once daily and AMS-CBG once daily, therefore also providing a one-stop LEJ-AMS-CBG vv. service. However, I cannot find any flights later than the end of March.

[01475]

Still no bookings after March :-( Dropping Amsterdam (if that's what's happening) is a shame; I think they could have made that work with a proper frequency and marketing.

Marketing that, ironically, is starting to appear...

[9VSIO]

IIRC, they also had some MX issues? They sorely needed Etihad's support on this re. promotion. Might have arrived too late though.

[papabravowhiskey]

Well, we took a chance and booked to go to Japan from Cambridge via CDG in March. Good, competitive price.
We made a through booking with Opodo - not separate bookings.

First thing that happened was that the return flight CDG-CBG was put back one day = one unwanted overnight in Paris with no offer of accommodation.

Now the outbound CBG-CDG has been brought forward one day = another unwanted overnight in Paris (of course the flights to Japan haven't changed!) and again no offer of accommodation.

AND of course both CBG-CDG and CDG-CBG flights have now become dog-legs, so outward is now CBG-AMS-CDG and return is now CDG-AMS-CBG.

If I had wanted to do a tour of Europe, then I would have said so at the outset!

I don't think that Darwin (now Etihad Regional) have really advertised the CBG flights and they seem to have let them wither on the vine. Well, lesson learned!

PBW

[01475]

Flights appear to have disappeared from the timetable as well now :-(

I see that the Dusseldorf services are shown on the route map as from Stansted.

This is a shame; I really believe that the flights to Amsterdam (but not any of the other ones) could have worked if ticketing arrangements had been available from the beginning. I have wanted to fly with them three times this year, and I know other people that have wanted to fly with them as well.

[Jes]

Etihad Regional to temporarily suspend its Cambridge operations - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/26378-etihad-regional-to-temporarily-suspend-its-cambridge-operations)

[01475]

The fact that it's been done in a slow and mysterious way has created a slew of bad publicity that I can't see them recovering from; I think the problems would even carry over to a new airline if someone else tried to operate AMS :-(

[papabravowhiskey]

We flew back into CBG today, on what was apparently the last-but-one AMS-CBG flight. The in-flight magazine now does not show CBG on the route network map at all. I don't know about the "bad publicity" due to the slow withdrawal of services mentioned above, but ANY publicity AT ALL for those that it was running might have made a difference. The poor loads (there were three of us on the outward flight a couple of weeks ago, six on the return today) made the pull-out inevitable, and the "death by a thousand cuts" was not going to help either - if the service was supposed to be aimed at business-people then really the minimum needed to be a schedule to get people out and back in a day. Neighbours and others that we have spoken to didn't know about the flights. I have been told that some of the ground handling staff are being made redundant, so it's not good news for them either.

PBW

[Bagso]

Surely Etihad Regional should be operating feeder services into Manchester ?

[papabravowhiskey]

Bagso wrote: Surely Etihad Regional should be operating feeder services into Manchester ?
Well, you have to remember that the CBG-based operation was set up by Darwin prior to the involvement of Etihad. And if you look at the new route network, it's now primarily based around Zurich and Geneva. There appear to be bookable flights on Saturdays from 17th May to 20th September from CBG to Verona with Etihad Regional. Are they going to bother advertising them? Or are they going to take bookings and then scrap the flights because of lack of demand? People won't even THINK of putting CBG into flight searches if they don't know the flights exist.

PBW

[Barling Magna]

The indifference shown towards advertising and marketing by airlines starting services from regional airports never ceases to surprise me. It's a version of the "build it and they will come" philosophy. Airlines are prepared to pour tens of thousands of pounds down the drain running services that nobody knows about rather than spend a few more thousand on publicity in the local media, on hoardings etc. Why do they think Richard Branson dresses up as an air hostess, or flies into a new airport in a blaze of photographs...... he may be a bit of a pain, but people are aware of his and his arline's existence.

[kcockayne]

& still the losses mount for Virgin !

[Narrow Runway]

O'Leary and Stelios were masters of the free advert as well.

Their airlines make a lot of money!

As a CBG resident, I concur that the marketing has been non-existent. This is a SERIOUSLY wealthy place. With the right routes and marketing, the market is here for high yield, small aircraft airlines.

[fairflyer]

There is definitely a good, wealthy catchment for a little regional airport like Cambridge but the task of registering in the minds of every citizen in that catchment that they should check out their local airport first before say Stansted requires a heck of a lot of good old basic blanket advertising and a few publicity stunts thrown in for good measure. You can spend thousands each month on local papers, local radio, billboards, bus adverts, train station posters, post code mailshot letterbox drops, website banners, e-mail broadcasts and telesales campaigns to the corporate markets but still you'll find your next door neighbour ten miles away from the airport didn't know you could fly anywhere from there. It's a process of time, it takes a new airport flying new scheduled routes a good few years to get the recognition and familiarity going. It's a long, hard slog and it costs stupid amounts of money. But, five years down the road after steady routes to the usual suspects and your on the radar of all the locals and before they book that Stansted flight, they'll just check out the local alternative by default. If they get the concept of the hassle-free terminal experience, the easy parking, the quick in and out processing that means when you turn up you can be down the runway in 30 minutes of out of the airport in 10 minutes from touch down, then they'll get it and will pay a small premium for that benefit.

Just takes a lot of pain and a few years to get the ball rolling.

It's a great benefit for the likes of Southend to have that new rail station walking distance from the terminal but they still will have sunk crazy sums of money into that place for the last five years and the return on that investment will be a long hard slog. Places like Cambridge have a 45 minute train run from Kings Cross but that isn't going to feed the routes, it's the locals living within 30 mins drive time who can dump their cars next to the terminal and just go.

It would help if to kick start the whole thing they waived parking fees for the first year or so though.

The amount of inward investment and growth in the Cambridge area is staggering! it's the most dynamic and exciting economic growth zone in the UK right now. It can work and should work, it's just time and a steady commitment to spreading the word via many different channels.

Of course, you still need the right routes to the right destinations with the right code-share opportunities too to make it stack up.

[sxflyer]

Papabravowhisky - The Verona flights are operating on behalf of Inghams and have been on sale well before the actual launch of the CBG operation by Darwin, so should be safe.

Whether they return next year (not necessarily on Etihad) remains to be seen

[papabravowhiskey]

Sxflyer wrotePapabravowhisky - The Verona flights are operating on behalf of Inghams and have been on sale well before the actual launch of the CBG operation by Darwin, so should be safe.

Whether they return next year (not necessarily on Etihad) remains to be seen
Aha! That explains it. I have also seen mention of ski specials that have run, also on behalf of Inghams. Thanks for pointing it out.

PBW

[01475]

CityJet to Dublin and Amsterdam from May :-)

Cambridge International Airport announces flights to Amsterdam and Dublin with CityJet airline | Cambridge News | Latest News Headlines From Cambridge City & Cambridgeshire | National News | Cambridge News (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Cambridge-International-Airport-announces-flights-to-Amsterdam-and-Dublin-with-CityJet-airline-20140428085000.htm)

Exciting! I hope they, you know... do some marketing this time.

[Cyrano]

I'd have to say that announcing the flights just two weeks before they start is not exactly "best practice" in marketing terms...:hmm:

[01475]

Possibly.

Hope they do at least get ticketing arrangements in place. For this to work they have to be taking people that are going to further than just AMS right from the beginning.

[NickBarnes]

Timings on routes are as follows

Monday - Friday
Cambridge - Amsterdam
06:00 - 08:05
Amsterdam - Cambridge
08:35 - 08:40
Cambridge - Dublin
09:10 - 10:35
Dublin - Cambridge
11:05 - 12:30
Cambridge - Amsterdam
13:55 - 16:00
Amsterdam - Cambridge
16:40 - 16:45
Cambridge - Dublin
17:15 - 18:40
Dublin - Cambridge
19:10 - 20:30

Weekend 1 x flight daily - DUB and AMS

[NickBarnes]

took a random week in September departing out on Tuesday 16th returning Friday 19th to Amsterdam

and the return price was £338.90:sad::ugh:

are they serious!

[sxflyer]

When I looked at those times I thought great, 3x daily to AMS at times broadly similar to KL's regional services, they must have an interline agreement and this could actually work.

Then I saw the evening flight wasn't to AMS, it was a second daily DUB. Then I found out it all starts in just two weeks and my heart sank.

This clearly won't work, DUB doesn't need 2x daily especially when the times aren't great for a business day return. The second AMS is too early, so not much use for business either, though could be redeemed if connections are possible.

I would keep the morning AMS, perhaps keep the morning DUB, then EDI in the afternoon followed by AMS in the evening. Even then it's a gamble.

At least Cityjet has marginally greater brand awareness than Darwin!

[01475]

Those are funny times. I'd assumed they would be using a Dublin based aircraft.

It is all about the connections and marketing though; if they get that right then I'm certain they can be made to work!

Even Manston managed to hold down flights to Amsterdam, and Margate probably doesn't have the huge number of people visiting from all over Europe and the world in relation to a university and a lot of industry that Cambridge has!

AMS appears to be £145.90 return at the weekend.

EasyJet on the same dates easyJet from Stansted was £88 (weekday) / £95 (weekend) for broadly similar times and including a 20kg bag. This is certainly a lot more attractive during the week, but probably about as attractive at the weekend.

Dublin seems to be £158.50 during the week and £97.50 at the weekend. Ryanair are wanting £132 for flights at broadly similar times and with a 15kg bag (v 23kg), so in that case I certainly would be using CityJet!

[Phileas Fogg]

Start off at stupid o'clock of a morning and all wrapped up and home to bed by 8.30pm of an evening ... What's this all about.

0600 departure, 0500 (ish) check-in, live in Cambridge then 0400 wake-up, live an hour outside of Cambridge then 0300 wake up ... How long before the travelling public catch on that it's far more sociable to travel to/from NWI, STN, LTN or BHX?

Agree with others, neither AMS nor DUB has both a morning and evening service so both routes seem doomed to fail.

And presuming that this is a single geriatric turbo-prop aircraft operation I'd like to bet they don't have a sufficient spare parts back-up at Cambridge!

[CelticRambler]

This clearly won't work, DUB doesn't need 2x daily especially when the times aren't great for a business day return ...

Yet again the obsession with last century's stereotypical business traveller.

First of all, eight hours in Dublin is probably enough for any well-organised Cambridge businessman or woman if they feel the need to get home the same day, but the Dublin conference industry does all it can to keep people there for two, three even four days at a time.

And secondly, for approximately the same length of time as it takes to get from Cambridge to Heathrow, anyone going to the states can aim to save a couple of hours with US pre-clearance at Dublin.

With Amsterdam being proposed at the same time, these services are obviously aimed at passengers going further afield with other carriers. Perfectly sensible, and good luck to both airline and airport.

[sxflyer]

CelticRamber, good point but at present there is no indication connections are being offered. That is not to say it won't happen.

I want to see CBG work, it's a nice little airport. But I don't think my reservations particularly about DUB are unreasonable when it's up against much higher frequency at STN (AMS less so). I can see DUB doing really well when the racing is on, less so at other times.

I would also question whether there is substantial enough last minute business demand to either destination to justify starting in two weeks.

[Cyrano]

Yet again the obsession with last century's stereotypical business traveller.

First of all, eight hours in Dublin is probably enough for any well-organised Cambridge businessman or woman if they feel the need to get home the same day, but the Dublin conference industry does all it can to keep people there for two, three even four days at a time.

And secondly, for approximately the same length of time as it takes to get from Cambridge to Heathrow, anyone going to the states can aim to save a couple of hours with US pre-clearance at Dublin.

With Amsterdam being proposed at the same time, these services are obviously aimed at passengers going further afield with other carriers. Perfectly sensible, and good luck to both airline and airport.

I appreciate (and indeed sympathise with) your sincere desire to overturn the conventions of business travel, but CityJet is not going to be that iconoclast.


Yet again the obsession with last century's stereotypical business traveller.

First of all, eight hours in Dublin is probably enough for any well-organised Cambridge businessman or woman if they feel the need to get home the same day, but the Dublin conference industry does all it can to keep people there for two, three even four days at a time.

So you're saying that as a Cambridge business person I should settle for 8 hours in Dublin, as long as they are from 10.35 to 19.10, and that if (heaven forbid) I am trying to fit into someone else's 9-5 schedule it's just the fault of the "Dublin conference industry"? Oddly enough when I look at the prices of flights, for example from Dublin to Heathrow, the flights arriving before 9 tend to be the most expensive. I can't imagine why... :hmm:


And secondly, for approximately the same length of time as it takes to get from Cambridge to Heathrow, anyone going to the states can aim to save a couple of hours with US pre-clearance at Dublin.

Oddly enough my first thought was the same as yours. Independent Cityjet has negotiated a commercial agreement with Air France, so they must have arranged matters to connect to the Delta transatlantic flights at DUB, right?

Er...no. Arrive into DUB at 10.35, after the 10.10 ATL departure has left, and just in time to get to a window to wave at the 11.00 Delta JFK flight pushing back. And Cityjet doesn't have any interline deal that I know of with Aer Lingus, certainly no codeshare.

You say:
These services are obviously aimed at passengers going further afield with other carriers. Perfectly sensible, and good luck to both airline and airport.

In the case of Amsterdam, yes, you're right. But Dublin? Please explain to me how this is a "sensible" schedule, with no useful connectivity. That's a genuine question, by the way - have I missed something in this fairly miserable "what-can-we-do-in-the-gaps-between-Amsterdam-flights?" timetable?

What puzzles me is that a Cambridge-Dublin service that had an EI code and that operated at sensible times could actually generate some useful connecting traffic. Clearly EI (or rather Stobart Air) is not interested, so Cambridge Airport has decided to shower their leftover planned-for-Darwin marketing support largesse on CityJet. Cardiff, Cambridge,... What's next? Carlisle? Caernarfon?

[onyxcrowle]

Not being familiar with the area other than of course what it is famous for.
But is there enough population and demand to bring in a loco like Ryanair perhaps?.
Just thought that if it was , then it might appeal to the huge student market if it had lots of uk and European destinations.

[Cyrano]

Not being familiar with the area other than of course what it is famous for.
But is there enough population and demand to bring in a loco like Ryanair perhaps?.
Just thought that if it was , then it might appeal to the huge student market if it had lots of uk and European destinations.

I think you'll find there's lots of LoCo demand. It flies to/from Stansted, conveniently located about 30 minutes away from Cambridge by train, and with lots of UK and European destinations. ;)

[mathers_wales_uk]

Why is the Cardiff operation such a surprise for CityJet? It was a gap left behind when Flybe decided to pull out and passenger numbers suggest that the F50 maybe the correct size against the Q400.

Unlike the Cambridge the flight times tend to cater for the business passenger with leisure routes to Jersey and Paris Orly.

It is a shame that there wasn't a bigger lead time however many passengers that have used the service give it a big thumbs up.

[Cyrano]

Why is the Cardiff operation such a surprise for CityJet? It was a gap left behind when Flybe decided to pull out and passenger numbers suggest that the F50 maybe the correct size against the Q400.

Unlike the Cambridge the flight times tend to cater for the business passenger with leisure routes to Jersey and Paris Orly.

It is a shame that there wasn't a bigger lead time however many passengers that have used the service give it a big thumbs up.

I can't fault the quality of CityJet service - I think the passengers get a very good product. My issue (with the Cardiff routes, and even more so with the Cambridge routes) is whether they can make economic sense for the airline. Personally I don't think they can. (Flybe has a lower cost base than CityJet and a strong brand which can stimulate additional traffic. So while there was a gap in the market, I'm not sure there's a market in the gap.) But we'll see in due course.

[Nextprop]

My issue (with the Cardiff routes, and even more so with the Cambridge routes) is whether they can make economic sense for the airline. Personally I don't think they can.

As I am sure you are aware, in the short term economic sense is not profitability. Cityjet has surplus capacity since cutting back at London City. Therefore in my view, as long as these routes cover their direct operating costs, it makes economic sense for Cityjet to operate them for the time being.

I wish Cityjet the best for this new venture. Cambridge Airport has done well to attract an appropriate operator to fill the void left by Darwin so quickly.

[01475]

Cityjet has surplus capacity since cutting back at London City. Therefore in my view, as long as these routes cover their direct operating costs, it makes economic sense for Cityjet to operate them for the time being.


True - that'll be why these are starting at short notice.

I don't have the slightest doubt that an EI flight to Dublin and a KLM flight to Amsterdam would work; they definitely definitely would.

Whether or not this can work depends on marketing; but I think that if they get it right it can. However that marketing has to say "Fly from Cambridge to Amsterdam, Dublin, and a long list of places", not "Fly from Cambridge to Amsterdam and Dublin".

I think Darwin could have made their flights work if they'd let people know about them and stuck with it for a bit longer; they stopped taking bookings about the same week as they started getting ticketing arrangements in place, and disappeared about the same time as people started to get to know their name.

[Phileas Fogg]

for approximately the same length of time as it takes to get from Cambridge to Heathrow, anyone going to the states can aim to save a couple of hours with US pre-clearance at Dublin.

And precisely how many US routes are served directly from/to DUB compared to LHR?

[Cyrano]

And precisely how many US routes are served directly from/to DUB compared to LHR?

That'd be 10 non-stop US destinations from Dublin and 23 non-stop US destinations from Heathrow.

Those 10 destinations account for 65% of the US-bound passengers from Heathrow, incidentally.

And your point was? :hmm:

[Barling Magna]

Cityjet has surplus capacity since cutting back at London City. Therefore in my view, as long as these routes cover their direct operating costs, it makes economic sense for Cityjet to operate them for the time being. If that is the case Cityjet would have been a good candidate to take on the BFS and EDI flights that EZY have dropped from SEN; there's a proven market for both routes, filling A319s on occasions (just not often enough). The local newspaper and its website have been full of disappointed punters wanting the EDI flights to continue from SEN. Smaller equipment would surely generate high enough yield to be consistently profitable on these routes.

I wonder if SEN management even bothered to contact Cityjet?

[Phileas Fogg]

Cyrano,

And to save the quoted two hours travelling time those 10 US departures would need to be timed to coincide with Cityjet arrivals and departures would they not?

Remind me not to utilise your services for my business's marketing :)

[Cyrano]

Cyrano,

And to save the quoted two hours travelling time those 10 US departures would need to be timed to coincide with Cityjet arrivals and departures would they not?

Remind me not to utilise your services for my business's marketing :)

Phileas,

You were sniping at a perceived lack of transatlantic services from Dublin and that's what I addressed. That's all.

Nowhere have I suggested that the CityJet service connects with those. It doesn't. They don't even interline. The fact that the CityJet service is a total dog doesn't alter the fact that Dublin in general is an interesting transatlantic connecting point for part of the UK market that can't get easily to Heathrow, provided there is a reasonable connecting service (e.g. EI Regional).

Ad hominem not called for. Poor show, sir. I used to have a higher opinion of you.

[Nextprop]

If that is the case Cityjet would have been a good candidate to take on the BFS and EDI flights that EZY have dropped from SEN; there's a proven market for both routes, filling A319s on occasions (just not often enough).

I can't think that Cityjet management are currently feeling too kindly towards SEN and Stobart. The new Stobart Air Antwerp route is spoiling Cityjet's cosy monopoly there.

[CelticRambler]

So you're saying that as a Cambridge business person I should settle for 8 hours in Dublin, as long as they are from 10.35 to 19.10, and that if (heaven forbid) I am trying to fit into someone else's 9-5 schedule it's just the fault of the "Dublin conference industry"? Oddly enough when I look at the prices of flights, for example from Dublin to Heathrow, the flights arriving before 9 tend to be the most expensive. I can't imagine why... :hmm:

Because there's no good reason for CityJet to compete for that same segment of the business market. I suspect we move in different "business" circles: in mine there is no nine-to-five schedule anymore for anyone doing business, and that business may well involve a meeting or site visit at 11pm as much as 11am.

If they can break even using a 50-seater twice a day and (possibly?) benefit from off-peak landing charges, why risk trying to grab a piece of someone else's pie? We know that rarely works.


In the case of Amsterdam, yes, you're right. But Dublin? Please explain to me how this is a "sensible" schedule, with no useful connectivity. That's a genuine question, by the way - have I missed something in this fairly miserable "what-can-we-do-in-the-gaps-between-Amsterdam-flights?" timetable?

As the current incarnation of CityJet is effectively an orphan child, they're hardly in a good position to be negotiating code-shares and operational tie-ups. So propose the route, let passengers make their own decision as to whether they want to rush - or wait - for the direct flights to Philadelphia, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, New York or Toronto. It will be a lot easier for the airline to bring the time forward in six months time, to improve connectivity, if that's the way passengers use the service, than to push it as a feature right now and then find it doesn't catch on.

[Una Due Tfc]

They can still make the EI flights to YYZ, SFO, and the later BOS, ORD and JFK services, as well as the second UA to EWR and the second DAL to JFK from DUB, probably a few others whose EOBT I can't remember.

Would Cityjet have a way of knowing what percentage of their pax would use these flights without interlining data? Same goes for the countless flights from AMS they could transfer to?

Many of us would crawl through fire to avoid LHR, with pre-clearance in DUB and AMS being such a pleasure to use in comparison, these flights MAY do better than we think......

[01475]

Many of us would crawl through fire to avoid LHR

And indeed to avoid Ryanair.

[Phileas Fogg]

Many of us would crawl through fire to avoid LHR

Many of might crawl through fire to avoid inconvenient schedules.

I lived in Cambridge's (western) catchment area for a few years and my car literally knew it's own way for the less than one hour journey along the A14 & M6 to BHX for, throughout the day, a much better variety of services than Cambridge will ever offer.

Stop thinking that London is the only reasonable alternative to Cambridge ... It isn't!

[mart901]

Quite agree Phileas. I live by the A14 and the next two flights I have are from BHX. 1hr20mins, LHR is crippling to get to from here. Even LTN which is only 5 miles more than STN is a pain to get to. Even EMA is feasible A14,M1. I worked by EMA for a month a few years ago and many times I could do it in 1hr30, a very straight forward 1hr30 not changing roads constantly.

[01475]

Cambridge's (western) catchment area for a few years and my car literally knew it's own way for the less than one hour journey along the A14 & M6

That's somewhere closer to Birmingham than Kettering, which in fairness isn't really Cambridge's catchment area at all. (Though admittedly it's a small catchment area, which is part of Cambridge's problem.)

(Either that or I hope the police understood when you explained to them that it was the car driving itself ;-) )

[Phileas Fogg]

That's somewhere closer to Birmingham than Kettering

Oh no it wasn't!

[01475]

Oh no it wasn't!

And I based that on only a rough application of the speed limit :=

[Phileas Fogg]

I based that on only a rough application of the speed limit

01475,

In my 1000cc ''thundering fart'' Higham Ferrers to Hampton-in-Arden rail station was 59 miles with the vast majority of the route being dual carriageways.

I would regularly complete the journey in less than the hour to then park my car at Hampton-in-Arden rail station for free to take the 3 minute train journey in to BHX airport for something like 80p each way.

And Higham Ferrers most definitely falls within Cambridge's catchment area were there a realistic functioning airport at Cambridge.

As mart901 pointed out London airports can be a pain in the butt to get to and from Higham Ferrers LTN was OK to drive to/from, just an unpleasant experience when one arrived there :) , to get to/from STN one would be driving past Cambridge and if any journey involved the M25 it wouldn't possibly be quicker than driving to/from BHX or indeed EMA.

[Jet Set Willie]

Cambridge to London City doesn't touch the M25 so easily less than an hour :)

[Phileas Fogg]

Willie,

I think you've missed the Jet Set by a long mark.

The discussion wasn't about what is within an hour of Cambridge, moreso what was within an hour of Cambridge's catchment area and if you're suggesting that LCY is within an hour of such locations as Ely, Huntingdon, Kettering, to name but three, then you are very much mistaken.

[Jet Set Willie]

All those just over an hour agreed, but when you live just south of Cambridge and work at LCY, on average 45 mins from the Duxford area for me :)

[01475]

Not actually driving to the airport makes the extra few miles past Kettering possible! However I'd still say it's not in Cambridge's catchment because it's almost as close to an airport that will always be a bigger draw.

I'd say Cambridge's catchment is Cambridge, villages west of Cambridge before the A1, villages north of Cambridge until before Peterborough and Kings Lynn, villages east of Cambridge up to Bury, and perhaps a few miles south of Cambridge at the very most.

I don't see this as an insurmountably massive inherent problem because there is so much within that area, and a lot of people travelling back and forward from abroad to get to it.

And I was surprised that people I met on Darwin flights had come from Norwich as the airport development fee there upset them, so the catchment might be bigger than I think!

[Phileas Fogg]

01475,

So which airport's catchment area does Higham Ferrers fall into ... Luton?

Actually if falls within the catchment area of the airport that has a flight where one wants to go, offering the level of service that one finds acceptable, at a price that one is happy to pay and at a time of day that one finds acceptable to travel at.

So in that respect, for the years that I lived there, BHX served my needs for my travels to such places as ARN, KBP, MXP, FCO, CDG, DUS, TSR, RIX, AMS and probably others that I have forgotten.

LTN would fail on just about all of my requirements!

[JonEMA]

Quite right .....routes have catchments not airports...,,:D

[VickersVicount]

tell that to the airlines who've tried and failed....

[VictorGolf]

There was a short piece on "Look East", the local BBC news programme yesterday, highlighting the new services to Dublin and Amsterdam. I thought Suckling used to do an early (very) service to Amsterdam before the Manchester rotation? Anyway good luck to the new operator with it's Fokker 50.

[rob39]

Good luck to cityjet though I'd have thought they would have tested the water their do328

[Cyrano]

Good luck to cityjet though I'd have thought they would have tested the water their do328

It's not their Do328, it's Loganair's (formerly Suckling Airways'). So CityJet would have had to hire it in and pay the ACMI costs (as they did when it flew in CityJet colours). It makes more sense (*) to use an existing F50 and crew who otherwise would have had nothing to do.

(*) not that this Cambridge operation makes sense in the first place, but that's a separate topic.

[01475]

Just booked a bunch of flights, carefully checked each of them from Cambridge first.

Some of the Cambridge versions could have worked really well despite the unconventional timings of the CityJet flights; CBG > AMS > TLL works out quite nicely.

Bbut... £1,003 from Cambridge. Or £101 from Stansted? Ryanair's worth paying to avoid, but not that much :-(

[nicolai]

The BBC reports ATC working excessive hours, too many AIRPROX, poor runway maintenance. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-27730700)

It doesn't paint a good picture.

[sbw29]

This is a non-story. The reporter is the brother of a disgruntled bitter ex-employee. Cambridge is as safe as any other small airport. No one has whistle-blown to the CAA because they have no grounds to. Simple as that.

[Phileas Fogg]

It was all naive amusement that the air traffic controllers were overworked ... How many movements a day do they have precisely?

[Una Due Tfc]

Two thirds of ATC errors are made when we are quiet, it's when people let their guard down.

[Phileas Fogg]

Two thirds of ATC errors are made when we are quiet, it's when people let their guard down.

Teaching me to suck eggs?

Believe it or not I did Air Traffic Control, in particular 15.25 hour nightshifts, and one particular nightshift, at some unearthly hour of the morning, myself and and the controller, who I kicked from him pit, handled what became a "Mayday" situation when he should have been asleep and I should have been sitting with my feet up supping coffee

I'd been sitting there, hour after hour, by my lonesome, trying to stay awake but as soon as Chivenor and PDQ afterwards the chopper called I was on to it, headset on talking to the aircraft whilst with one outstretched foot kicking on the ATIS room door to the effect "Sir, get out of your pit ..... PLEASE".

So please don't try and preach to me that Cambridge is dangerous because it's too quiet, I've been there, done that, and I've got the tee shirt :)

[Una Due Tfc]

Apologies Phileas, I (wrongly) assumed you were a pilot. Was making a generalised comment not specific to Cambridge, as I've never been there. I'm sure the CAA would have more to say if there were any substance to these allegations, as it's a totally separate entity from ANSPs in Britain, unlike the regulator in other parts of Europe.....

[NickBarnes]

I know caa stats are realesed tomorrow but anybody had any heads up on how the new cityjet flights have faired, will be very interested, looking to book Dublin in September

[Phileas Fogg]

Apologies Phileas, I (wrongly) assumed you were a pilot.

UDT,

No, I had a proper job, or jobs :)

Yes, you are right, when one is alert and on the ball then one can react to a given situation better than when it is quiet but surely that is why pilots are put thru a simulator bi-annually, to give them those unexpected situations, are Air Traffic personnel not put through such checks?

I've done it, emergency situations both in a tower and from a radar unit, at Eastern Radar our primary customer was the USAF ... I could write a book and whenever we may have gone on the "lash" to Lakenheath or Mildenhall we quite often found our beers being bought for us :)

[off watch]

sbw29 said : This is a non-story. The reporter is the brother of a disgruntled bitter ex-employee. Cambridge is as safe as any other small airport. No one has whistle-blown to the CAA because they have no grounds to. Simple as that.

This is from the latest CAA OCCURRENCE LISTING :

Aircraft Below 5700kg
OCCURRENCES RECORDED BETWEEN 01 May 2014 and 31 May 2014

PIPER PA30 LYCOMING 320 FAMILY
Approach EGSC (CBG): Cambridge 26/04/2014 201405444

Overload on band boxed position at Cambridge due to complexity of traffic. Traffic info and avoiding action given.
We have to band-box (combine Procedural Approach/Tower/Ground Movements) to allow colleagues to take breaks, which I did on arrival for the start of my shift. There was little traffic to start off with, but my colleague was willing to curtail his break if the workload increased. The traffic levels were expected to increase as there was a planned IR Fly of 30 plus a/c in to Cambridge.
As traffic started to call I requested that my colleague return and in the short time it took him to return, the amount and complexity of the traffic did not allow easy separation of the frequencies.
One pilot in particular added significantly to the workload (PA30)) and a contributory factor in my “overload”. On his first call I requested him to standby, which increased his impatience. He was asked to call 5nm from Cambridge, he called about 3nm. He was requested to call downwind he failed to do so, and called left base, which put him in direct conflict with Beech 90 on the ILS that had been cleared to land.
The ATM showed some lateral separation so I sent PA30 around passed the appropriate traffic information and landed other aircraft.
I thought this was the better option as it slowed the erosion of the lateral separation being made by the faster Beech 90. Other factors; it was planned that the visitors would make visual approaches but due to the worsening cloud some requested the ILS, so the Approach workload increased and for those flying beneath the cloud made circuit integration more challenging and so increased the workload for the ADI aspect; lack of manning reduced the availability of radar and forced me to band-box.
METAR EGSC 260820z
15012kt 110v190 9999 SCT018 11/09 Q1005= 260850z 15013kt 110v190 9999 BKN012 11/09 Q1005=

I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions .......

[SWBKCB]

Think the whistle-blower would have more credence if there was evidence that they'd gone through the appropriate channels (internal, external/regulatory) before going to the press - then you look like somebody with a genuine concern they're trying to get put right, rather than just being bitter and twisted (which is also a decent pint from Harviestoun brewery! :ok:)

[NickBarnes]

CAA stats are out, Dublin carried 444 passengers for May, Amsterdam carried 346

Anybody know when they started? to work out average LF

[Cyrano]

CAA stats are out, Dublin carried 444 passengers for May, Amsterdam carried 346

Anybody know when they started? to work out average LF

Hi Nick,

A quick Google ;) indicates they started on 12 May.

Frequency on each route is 12 round trips per week (2/day during the week, 1/day at weekends).

By my count that is 35 round trips on each route in the month of May, assuming no cancellations. Happy to have someone with more detailed information correct this assumption.

35 round trips = 70 sectors = 3500 seats on each route @ 50 seats/flight.

Dublin: 444/3500 = 13% LF
Amsterdam: 346/3500 = <10% LF

I'd say there's room for improvement there, all right. :eek:

[NickBarnes]

Good grief that's a poor set of results, thanks for that

[AirGuru]

Very, very poor. WX need to have a long hard think about this one. To me, even at this early stage a WX pullout looks inevitable, it has been since the day it was announced. Does not look good for Cambridge. We've had some poor take-ups on routes at CWL, but this take-up looks terrible, despite the early lead in time, and probable lack of advertising.

[sxflyer]

I would repeat the points I made previously. The flights were on sale only a couple of weeks before they started (late market tends to be business travel), with neither route having timings that are particularly great for business. A recipe for disaster.

[rob39]

Any one post the link to the Cambridge stats??

[NickBarnes]

UK Airport Provisional Statistics: 2014 - 05 | Aviation Intelligence | About the CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&sglid=11&fld=201405)

Just click on the international routes PDF, scroll down and you should find them

[sxflyer]

On the plus side an average of 32 pax per flight to Verona, which while not amazing at 64% isn't too bad, and 44 to Jersey which is very good, must be about 90ish%

[VictorGolf]

A note in today's Sunday Times puts the Marshall Group at number 35 in the Top 100 privately owned companies. In the description it states "It is based at Cambridge airport, which it owns and intends to expand in to a regional hub". We shall see.

[NickBarnes]

Dublin route had 1021 pax for June = 10 pax average 20% LF
Amsterdam had 831 pax for June = 8 pax average 16% LF


Looks dreadful sadly think it will be bye bye cityjet

Please correct those figures if I'm wrong

[Planespeaking]

Oh dear. It seems the Oxbridge airports seem unable to attract commercial pax loads. Whether it's because they lack marketing or because the demand isn't there only time will tell.

[01475]

Cambridge isn't included in the first release of provisional July stats. I hope it's because big numbers take longer to add up, but fear it isn't!

[01475]

July:

Amsterdam 1055 -average 10 pax per flight (20%)
Dublin 1759 - average 16 pax per flight (33%)
Jersey 349 - average 44 pax per flight (¿this is an ATR42 so 92%?)
Verona 235 - average 29 pax per flight (59%)

I really thought AMS would get more pax than that. May and June had to be disasters because nobody had got a chance to find out the flights even existed before they started flying, but by July I thought things would be (if not wonderful) better than that.

On the other hand... I've booked a lot of flights and none of them from CBG.

Today I was looking at:

LGW <> TBS: £243.04, 08h00 out 08h00 back
STN <> TBS: £291.04, 10h55 out 10h35 back
LTN <> TBS: £365.68, 11h40 out 08h00 back
LHR <> TBS: £398.38, 10h25 out 07h50 back
LCY <> TBS: £402.91, 11h40 out, 14h25 back
NWI <> TBS: £507.79, 14h05 out, 10h10 back
CBG <> TBS: £552.50, 27:45 out, 10h40 back

The extra is something you might be willing to pay (a lot of the cheaper flights are Ukraine International Airlines) if it wasn't for the fact that the connections just don't work because of the wacky flight times between CBG and AMS :-( (And if you're flying to Georgia you're probably willing to take the chance of going via Ukraine.)

I'm noticing that the timetable seems to be changing in mid September, but I'm confused as to exactly what they're doing.

Based on the CityJet website the weekday timetable is going to be:

CBG-DUB 0910-1035, DUB-CBG 1105-1230
CBG-AMS 1125-1330, AMS-CBG 1400-1405
CBG-AMS 1355-1600, AMS-CBG 1640-1645
CBG-DUB 1715-1840, DUB-CBG 1910-2030

This doesn't make any sense at all.

The second rotation to AMS seemingly isn't actually bookable, which leaves us with:

CBG-DUB 0910-1035, DUB-CBG 1105-1230
CBG-AMS 1125-1330, AMS-CBG 1400-1405
CBG-DUB 1715-1840, DUB-CBG 1910-2030

Which... still doesn't make any sense?

[01475]

Amsterdam now down to one flight a day in late September / October in both the timetable and booking engine.

However the one flight is still at times that clash with the bookable two flights a day to Dublin, unless they are going to use two Cambridge based aircraft to run the reduced service :s

Am looking to book myself a day trip to Dublin, but am worried that the timetable for only just over two weeks from today doesn't look like what I believe they intend to fly.

[dc9-32]

With rail ticket prices on the increase again, would there be a market for something that resembled the old AIR UK routes from STN, such as CBG-EDI-GLA-CBG, say 3 times daily kicking off at 7am ? Fokker 50, or RJ85 would be ideal.

[stopbar]

Just motor up the shortly to be dualled new A11 to Norwich where there is a choice of 4 daily flights to Amsterdam and 3 daily flights to Edinburgh with minimal terminal hassle and parking alongside the terminal....

[Jet Set Willie]

Or even less time to Stansted or London City for multiple flights to the above :)

[Cyrano]

Amsterdam now down to one flight a day in late September / October in both the timetable and booking engine.

However the one flight is still at times that clash with the bookable two flights a day to Dublin, unless they are going to use two Cambridge based aircraft to run the reduced service :s

Am looking to book myself a day trip to Dublin, but am worried that the timetable for only just over two weeks from today doesn't look like what I believe they intend to fly.

I'd guess the plan is to retime the morning CBG-DUB-CBG rotation about 90 minutes earlier, but perhaps they have a slot issue in Dublin? I can't believe that WX would really plan to use 2 aircraft for such a low-utilisation schedule.

[Nextprop]

I can't believe that WX would really plan to use 2 aircraft for such a low-utilisation schedule.

The two F.50s based at RTM operate fewer flights between them each day.

[01475]

With rail ticket prices on the increase again, would there be a market for something that resembled the old AIR UK routes from STN, such as CBG-EDI-GLA-CBG, say 3 times daily kicking off at 7am?

While this would be a dream come true for me, I don't think it could work. Train fares aren't *that* high. While lots of people do come to Cambridge, they come from lots of random places all over the place and not from anywhere in particular... which is why I really thought the AMS flights would work. However I do think they're doing them wrong because, as I say, I want to use them but so far haven't :-(

I am however now starting to see adverts for the flights around Cambridge, so hopefully that will help!

[01475]

Bookable flights for a week on Mon still require two aircraft. Confused :-s

[01475]

Timetable from tomorrow has now become a more understandable dropping of the afternoon rotation to AMS:

CBG-AMS 0600-0805, AMS-CBG 0835-0840
CBG-DUB 0910-1035, DUB-CBG 1105-1230
CBG-DUB 1700-1830, DUB-CBG 1900-2030

A confusing set of times; I can't imagine it offers so many connections through AMS on the way to CBG.

I presume it also means that people booked on the old afternoon flights have been given two changes in flight time, first a relatively minor one, and then to not-sensible o'clock in the morning.

Second AMS rotation is shown as coming back on 27 October.

[01475]

August:

Amsterdam: 1157 total, 11 average, 22% load
Dublin: 2093 total, 20 average, 40% load
Verona: 256 total, 26 average, 51% load
Jersey: 404 total, 40 average

Since they started:

May June July August
Amsterdam 10% 16% 20% 22%
Dublin 13% 20% 33% 40%

Dublin loads are really starting to get somewhere. We'll see whether one strangely timed flight a day will work for Amsterdam, but I'll have a fiver on no.

[LTNman]

City Jet services finish at the end of October.

[fjencl]

CityJet to axe flights from Cambridge | Anglia - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2014-09-29/cityjet-to-axe-flights-from-cambridge/)

[01475]

This is a shame. Nobody else will touch the airport after two attempts, both of which have seemed misguided and poorly advertised.

[NickBarnes]

Sadly that's the end of scheduled services from CBG for the foreseeable future, few charters yes but just can't see much more.

[Global_Global]

both of which have seemed misguided and poorly advertised.

In the case of Oxford I agree on the advertising. This one just is a catchment area thing: I tended to fly in to STN for less than half the price and with higher frequencies... and just up the road.. :(

[PAPI-74]

CityJet never could get their act together at LCY either, almost destroying the Scottish routes in one Summer.

[NickBarnes]

With the AMS route you have NWI with the long established KLM city hopper offering great connections worldwide carrying 132,000 pax a year then in the other way you have EZY from STN offering good frequency and cheap fares for day/weekend/shortbreak trips.

AMS from CBG was just never going to work

[davidjohnson6]

Does the weekly JER route still have a future in the summer ?

[roverman]

No surprise. As with similar attempts at OXF, the demise of PLH and now (most likely) BLK; the struggles at DTV and DCS, what is it telling us? It says that small airfields cannot sustain scheduled airline flights against the offering at not so far away larger established airports. And that is not a bad thing because in the UK no-one is very far from an airport offering a range of services. We need to get back to this reality. Small airfields have an important role in providing a facility for niche markets, flying training, maintenance, and private flying clubs. All these things are needed and usually cannot be accommodated viably at the larger airfields. Horses for courses.

[kcockayne]

davidjohnson6

I would have thought that it would continue. It's totally separate from City Jet, being operated as a charter/schedule by Blue Islands. That is, unless the airfield closes to commercial movements.

[01475]

The ownership of the airport puts it in a different position to others; the family owning it have a large engineering works based there and have been strongly resisting LA efforts to move the business to an alternative airfield outside Cambridge and zone the land for housing.

However if that ever changes then I expect Cambridge will head down the same route as Sheffield, Plymouth, Manston, Blackpool and doubtless others to follow.

I strongly believe that the number of people travelling to Cambridge means that it can support a successful service to Amsterdam. But it needs to run at sensible times, be advertised, and have through ticketing arrangements in place. Over the past few months I've repeatedly wanted to fly from Cambridge via Amsterdam, but never been able to because the timetable was just silly.

Perhaps only KLM could manage such a service; and as they manged to operate to even Manston I'm sure they could if they wanted to. However with Norwich being so close by I doubt they will come across such a desire.

[NickBarnes]

KLM could work yes, but I just think with Norwich been up the A11 I very much doubt they would want to desturb their operation there that has been going for such a long time.

[AirportPlanner1]

With around 40 pax per day heading to DUB at slightly off-peak times on fares that aren't especially cheap, perhaps EIR/Stobart might be interested? It is unlikely to interfere with the SEN catchment.

I can't really see anything else at CBG for the reasons mentioned

[Buster the Bear]

So the next recipient of inducements is.......?

[litefoot1]

Cambridge's only scheduled flights - Cityjet services to Amsterdam and Dublin - terminate on Saturday and it isn't known whether or not they'll return.


I flew on the Cambridge to Dublin route on Sunday and thought you might be interested in a few pics.


The airport itself is a couple of miles east of Cambridge town centre on the A1303. It isn't visible from the main road - you go into the car park where you will see this entrance in the corner:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0US8j3CEAASJ-M.jpg


Follow the path around and the airport is behind the car park/Marshall Aerospace building:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0UTLI-CUAAiD-7.jpg


The check-in area is small but pleasant and the staff are very polite:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0UTqxaCYAAFVGo.jpg


The departure lounge looks quite swish and there's a small café round the corner. Wi-Fi is free and unlimited.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0UUCdXCcAMeilt.jpg


The flight was on time, here's the plane:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0U3ELSIUAAl0GY.jpg


There were only 16 of us on a 52 seater so based on that I can understand why Cityjet want to can the route. This is my view from the back seat

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0U3ZAPIUAA09PV.jpg


After Saturday Oct 25th, there won't be anymore commercial passenger flights from Cambridge until their weekly flights to the French and Swiss Alps in December.

However, despite the lack of scheduled flights until next summer (Verona and Jersey) I doubt the airport is in any trouble as the airport is owned and operated by Marshall Aerospace, a Cambridge company who handle aviation and military contracts, with their sizable headquarters dwarfing the terminal building which is hidden well behind the HQ. There were some large (non passenger) planes being worked on when I arrived. The airport has survived without scheduled services before, so I doubt this airport is going anywhere.

I read an article this morning about increased rail services between Cambridge and Stansted Airport (30 minutes journey direct) but I doubt it will threaten Cambridge Airport.

Greater Anglia says new train services between Stansted Airport and Cambridge are on track | Bishops Stortford Herts & Essex Observer (http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/Greater-Anglia-says-new-train-services-Stansted/story-23211708-detail/story.html)

[Barling Magna]

Nice set of photos. Thanks.

Not the most imposing entrance to an airport terminal, is it?

[Buster the Bear]

I wonder how much these crazy ventures into scheduled Ops have cost the Marshall Group? Probably offset against tax?

[M-JCS]

Thanks for your review litefoot1. Quite interesting. What was it about CBG that made you decide to fly to DUB from there instead of from STN, just up the road, where there is more frequency and (perhaps) lower fares to DUB?

[litefoot1]

Nice set of photos. Thanks.

Not the most imposing entrance to an airport terminal, is it? The most understated entrance I have seen at a UK airport. No wonder people tell me they didn't even know Cambridge *had* an airport!


Thanks for your review litefoot1. Quite interesting. What was it about CBG that made you decide to fly to DUB from there instead of from STN, just up the road, where there is more frequency and (perhaps) lower fares to DUB?
One of my great ambitions is to fly from every commercial passenger airport in the UK. Cambridge is one of those. I had no plans to fly from there this year, but then Cityjet announced they were terminating the only scheduled flights in October 2014, with no promise to return. The winter flights to France and the Swiss Alps look horrifically expensive, as do Blue Islands flights to Jersey next summer. So, I decided to have a weekend in Cambridge, and then fly from Cambridge to Dublin for a reasonable £51 (I don't live in Cambs). So it's ticked off the list, and I don't need to worry about Cityjet not returning.


I've just noticed that the 'France and Swiss Alps' destination page on the Cambridge Airport website now returns a 404, and they've been removed from the destination list. Only Jersey and Verona, for Summer 2015, remain on the list. I'm trying to find out if they've been terminated as well. Surely not.

[airhumberside]

CBG-JER is on sale for next Summer

[litefoot1]

I've just noticed that the 'France and Swiss Alps' destination page on the Cambridge Airport website now returns a 404, and they've been removed from the destination list. Only Jersey and Verona, for Summer 2015, remain on the list. I'm trying to find out if they've been terminated as well. Surely not.


Inghams have indeed dropped the route. So there will be no more commercial passenger flights from Cambridge until next summer.

Nothing in the news yet about whether the flights will be transferred to another airport or cancelled entirely and the travellers refunded.

Not a great month for Cambridge Airport, losing three of their routes. However, I don't think the airport is in any danger.

[NickBarnes]

Norwich announced ski flights a month ago, could be where the passengers already booked will be transferred too.

EDIT: just seen different company doing NWI flights, so probably nothing to do with it

[colinhunn]

Intersky operating the NWI ski flights next year.

[SWBKCB]

**Thread drift alert**


Not the most imposing entrance to an airport terminal, is it?


The most understated entrance I have seen at a UK airport.

How about this one?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbkcb/14989394313/

[Barling Magna]

Nice one. At least you can see a building there, and they are clearly environmentally aware with all that recycling evident........

[litefoot1]

They're going to have to make it a bit more presentable before those flights to Dublin and the US...

[litefoot1]

Confirmation from Cambridge News that the France and Swiss Alps route has been dropped by Inghams. However, they plan to return next summer.


Tour operator Inghams ends winter flights from Cambridge Airport to Geneva | Cambridge News (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Tour-operator-Inghams-ends-winter-flights/story-23398054-detail/story.html)

[01475]

Loadings for May - September:

Dublin 13%, 20%, 33%, 40%, 34%
Amsterdam 10%, 16%, 20%, 22%, 30% (Albeit the 30% was after people would have had their flights combined).

With more bad publicity surrounding the cancellation of the winter services Cambridge has an uphill task in terms of publicity.

The Darwin death was slow and painful; those who tried to brave them endured a million cuts, re-timings, and cancellations.

There has now been two more rounds of publicity for cancellations, which for some passengers will have been preceeded by two rounds of retimings. Further, CityJet's Facebook suggests that they are awful about paying refunds, meaning it might be likely there will be further bad publicity.

Had it not been for that, the numbers would have persuaded me that it was possible for an airline with better publicity (EI or FlyBe) to operate some kind of service to Dublin, and that while they would never want to, KLM could operate a service to Amsterdam.

[mart901]

EIR could easily fill an ATR-42 possibly daily. They have ran quite a few routes 4/5 weekly and that could definitely work, adding the US and Canada connections would be brilliant. From Cambridge to LHR or LGW can be awful in traffic and a cross city trek by train at great expense, DUB would be a winner. I agree BE could possibly make a go of it, especially with EI codeshare like at SEN.

[M-JCS]

Without EI interlining though, wouldn't DUB flights from CBG be subject to a hammering from the STN offerings, just up the road?

[mart901]

I guess to a point bit EIR are managing to compete at EDI, BRS, GLA and now LBA and EMA next year, transatlantic would be a given, the yield is so good, its the main principal of EIR. My thoughts are that if WX could notch up to 40 pax daily, flights starting from £100 and minimal brand recognition or marketing what could EIR do.

[01475]

And non existent advertising; the flights started at incredibly short notice without really giving anyone a chance to find out they existed!

[Heathrow Harry]

that's a common issue with small airlines - you'd think they lash out on a few quid on repainting a few local buses and putting ads in the local paper but they never seem to -

It's frightening how often you go somewhere and discover that the local have no idea that there is a local airport proving limks to anywhere..............

[EGCA]

My Daughter who lives and works in Cambridge mentioned recently that closing Cambridge as an airfield and using it for housing, with Marshalls moving their ops elsewhere had come up again.
I must remember to check with her where the story was coming from.
Anyone local seen this raise its head again recently?

[01475]

The council strongly want to, but I haven't seen any sign of Marshalls lowering their strong resistance.

[01475]

For what it's worth (which is of course nothing at all whatsoever...); October saw Dublin 1483 (34%) and Amsterdam 565 (23%).

So May to October was:

Dublin 13%, 20%, 33%, 40%, 34%, 34%
Amsterdam 10%, 16%, 20%, 22%, 30%*, 23%

*After flights combined

I do still think those numbers mean that airlines people had heard of, that did marketing, that flew at sensible times, and that had ticketing arrangements in place from the beginning, could have made it work.

[aw ditor]

EGCA

Hasn't come up in our "close to Cambridge" neck of the woods. There is always a local politics' slant to this, Cambridge City is Lib Dem and likely to go Labour in May 15'. Wyton and Alconbury are non starters now with mixed' and housing planned respectively and I cannot see Mildenhall or Lakenheath welcoming Marshalls. There are mammoth housing plans for the old RAF Oakington site (10,000 plus) a stones throw from Cambridge so whats' the point? But that is in the South Cambs. district, local politics again. The Cambs. infrastructure cannot cope already!!

[Buster the Bear]

Lagan lands £17m Cambridge airport deal ? Construction Enquirer (http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2014/12/03/lagan-wins-17m-cambridge-airport-expansion/?)

[dc9-32]

Rumour going around that Marshalls are eyeing up Mildenhall which has announced it is to close and move ops to other bases including some in Germany.

[Evanelpus]

It was also rumoured that Marshalls had their eyes on Alconbury and Wyton when operational flying ceased there too.

Inevitable rumour, no real substance and IMHO, won't happen but it won't stop people banging out the same old tunes.

[LGS6753]

Cambridge-Gothenburg:

Thank you for flying AstraZeneca Airways - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/pharmaceuticalsandchemicals/11411518/Thank-you-for-flying-AstraZeneca-Airways.html)

[22/04]

Wonder how AZ shrinking in Cheshire will hit their MAN loads- mind you they are starting BHX too

AZ=Astra Zeneca not Alitalia BTW

[virginblue]

I understand that one plant in Cheshire will be significantly scaled down - but the other is being enlarged? (although most management work will be concentrated in Cambridge, IIRC).

Has GOT-BHX some corporate client background as well? Not aware of any AstraZeneca business in the Midlands - and bmi regional was unable to make it work, so I wonder why Sun air with their rather hefty fares are confident to make work what bombed with bmi.

[Expressflight]

I like the quoted "one hour flight time" from CBG to GOT.

[01475]

£536 for a weekend return. Hmm...

[NickBarnes]

Good job Astra Zeneca have paid for 20 seats on each flight because you would have to have a screw lose to pay £536! :eek:

[virginblue]

Sun Air is not exactly known for rock bottom fares on any of its routes. With small FRJ jets operating not more than four sectors each day in a high cost environment, it would be unrealistic to expect bargain fares.

However, 536 GBP is steep even by their standards. But as I understand, the flights are not on sale on sunair.dk, so I suppose the quote is for a fully flexible fare from the GDS?

[01475]

This was the fare shown on ba.com for a Thu - Mon return trip on a over the second weekend in April.

I'm not asking if they're better than Ryanair, I'm certain they are. But Ryanair are charging £140 return for similarly timed flights with 20kg bags and emergency exit row seats on the same day. Are they £400 better than Ryanair?

I note that the CBG website has check in and baggage allowance details for Eastern Airways. Are they doing the Inghams flights this year? (I see they're not on the Etihad website).

[NickBarnes]

Yes Eastern have taken it over this year

[nighthawk117]

This was the fare shown on ba.com for a Thu - Mon return trip on a over the second weekend in April.

I'm not asking if they're better than Ryanair, I'm certain they are. But Ryanair are charging £140 return for similarly timed flights with 20kg bags and emergency exit row seats on the same day. Are they £400 better than Ryanair?

The fares do seem rather high - they seem to be priced at £269 per flight, compared to £114 for MAN-BLL. Having flown the latter, I can say Sun Air service is fantastic, much better than BA's. Onboard service includes a meal (fairly decent ham & salad roll IIRC), followed by ice cream & baileys, as well as a pre-meal drink. Good service, but probably not £400 worth.

(Tip: don't ever go to Billund for the weekend - there's only one pub, and it doesn't open until 10pm!)

[Evanelpus]

What was the BA Dreamliner doing at Cambridge yesterday?:confused:

[virginblue]

GOT is a corporate shuttle. I don't think that Sun Air believes that there is a market for GOT-CBG in its own right - and for sure they will not waste a lot of money on marketing at the CBG end for a grand total of 212 available seats per month. The flights will generate sufficient income with 20 guaranteed seats and the best they can hope for is that the corporate client will buy some of the additional 12 seats for the stately published fare whenever the guaranteed number of seats is completely taken up. Maybe Sun Air will lower the fare somewhat at a later point based on experience how often some of the 12 available seats are taken up by the corporate customer. Until then, I suppose they cannot be bothered to waste too much energy and money on selling seats to the public through aggressive marketing competitive pricing.

[NickBarnes]

Evanelpus, it's maintainance :ok:

[dc9-32]

Have BA got a cheap deal to do training at CBG ? One of their Embraer's was in on Saturday.

[PAPI-74]

Apart from the GA, it is fairly quiet there for visual cts. Also from memory their ILS is approved for 5.5 deg slope, so LCY steep approach training can be conducted.

[cornishsimon]

The EMB was reporting as positioning in for mx.


cs

[learjet50]

Do you mean the 787 was positioning for Maintenance

[G-ARZG]

From the ever-helpful 'thebasource.com':-
March 14 2015
British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJC (http://www.thebasource.com/g-zbjc.html), which has been under maintenance at Cambridge since 10th March, positioned Cambridge – London Heathrow this morning as BA9172.

March 14, 2015

BA CityFlyer Embraer 190 G-LCYR positioned London City – Cambridge for maintenance this morning as BA9771.

[dc9-32]

G-LYCR was doing circuits at CBG on 14th.

[NorthSouth]

their ILS is approved for 5.5 deg slope:confused: Cambridge ILS is a standard 3 degrees. To be "approved" for 5.5 it would have to have entirely different glideslope equipment installed, a whole different set of lighting etc etc

[PAPI-74]

Cambridge Airport Welcomes North American Travelers | Business Aviation: Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2011-10-12/cambridge-airport-welcomes-north-american-travelers)

With a quick google......

[NorthSouth]

Ah, right. An investment announcement in 2011 claiming that they could "adjust" the PAPIs so that aircraft flying an RNAV approach could simulate flying a 5.5 degree ILS.
The RNAV approaches are now in place and they have a standard 3 degree profile. The PAPIs are set at 3 degrees. Not adjustable as far as I'm aware.

[Jet Set Willie]

Just to clear up. the Embraer was at Cambridge doing training circuits for new FOs over the weekend. As they cannot land at LCY, all were done at 3 degrees. However, the PAPIs CAN be changed to 5.5 with prior warning for training captains to land off a 5.5 should LCY not be available. Its the final part of the 5.5 that needs teaching so the ILS stays at 3 as not required. Hope that helps.

[NorthSouth]

Interesting - thanks for that info. I wonder how long it takes them to adjust and then re-adjust afterwards. Must have to be done in reliable VMC, with NOTAMs etc to warn other pilots not to use the PAPIs.

[kcockayne]

Can this service be used as a normal scheduled operation eg could I make a reservation in the same way that I would if I was using EZY, BAW, BEE, AUR etc ?

[davidjohnson6]

kcockayne - I had a similiar thought in 2014. Booking as a normal scheduled flight in advance without a week's accommodation was largely impossible.

The only thing that the charter travel agency would consider was selling off seats one day before flight date on flights from mainland UK, or up to a week in advance for flights originating in Jersey. This was on the basis that holiday bookings from mainland UK less than a day in advance were unlikely (or, at best, should be considered distressed stock) and better to get some revenue than none.

If you want to take up this option, you'll have to phone Jersey Travel and ask nicely.

[kcockayne]

dj6

Thanks for your very helpful answer. Pretty much what I thought. I'll keep what you said in mind.

[01475]

Are there any flights from Cambridge still planned for next year?

The last line of a story in the local newspaper about something else says not.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/New-weekend-trains-Cambridge-Stansted-launch/story-28307780-detail/story.html

I can't find the announcement they refer to, but I can find flights to Gothenburg in March (and some of the prices are a lot cheaper than they've been before).

I can't however find any of the usual charter flights anywhere.

[Red Four]

Is this the one you cannot find:
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Cambridge-Airport-axes-flights/story-28284945-detail/story.html

[01475]

Thanks!

Sad, but not surprising :-(

[litefoot1]

A great shame. Another regional airport - while not biting the dust - is losing its charter and scheduled flights.

I see there's an announcement for extra trains for Cambridge to Stansted Airport - doubt that helped.

[LTNman]

A terminal that Joe Public found difficult to visit and just the odd passenger flight. This was no Southend with its famous history but just an engineering base that dabbled in scheduled services and charter flights.

[VictorGolf]

Au contraire, Cambridge Airport is very easy to access off the A14 and there's a lot of parking space. As to no history I think anybody who has read the "Marshall History" will disagree with that. I used to use the Suckling service to Manchester fairly regularly back in the day and I think Cambridge could work at that sort of level. Certainly beats the congested nightmare that''s Stansted in the early morning rush of departures.

[AirportPlanner1]

The airport might be just off the A14, but LTNman's comment is a fair one. The terminal was hidden away and isn't that well signposted.

I would also agree that Cambridge doesn't have much in the way of pax history. Suckling were only there because they couldn't continue at Ipswich. I don't think their scope for pax ops extended much beyond what they currently have.

That said I'm surprised that they are shutting down pax ops altogether. To reference Southend again, they survived many years with a similar model and only one weekly flight. The article suggests they have staff specifically for the pax flights, if so it doesn't surprise me the venture is unviable. I would have thought they could carry on if staff multi-tasked with other roles?

It is also odd that a doubling of the Jersey operation is announced one week, and the plug pulled on everything the next.

[LTNman]

Seem to remember that the terminal was through a security gate. Not sure how people picking up passengers got on with no e ticket to show. It certainly stopped me visiting the terminal once.

[compton3bravo]

I went on an official tour a few years ago around the Marshalls complex, probably getting into Fort Knox would have been easier.

[litefoot1]

The airport might be just off the A14, but LTNman's comment is a fair one. The terminal was hidden away and isn't that well signposted.

I have to agree. Here's the view from the main road, with the Marshall building on the right. There's a relatively small blue sign behind the traffic light.

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5773/22986407544_8de95eaf4c_b.jpg


You go into the car park, towards the back and turn left, going behind the white building. You then see this:

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5445/17631876619_a9239b7471_c.jpg

You go through this entrance which leads you even further back, round a corner and you finally see the terminal:

http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7799/17791783556_04eceaaa7b_c.jpg

[Cambridge172]

Great shame, although the terminal was a bit awkward to find, it was well appointed and spot on for a small regional airport with a handful of commercial flights. The challenge though was making any money out of the commercial activity. It costs too much for the staff and the terminal for so little throughput and so much on marketing and sharing some of the pain (or risk) with the airlines. However, when Stansted airport is just 29 minutes away by train and Luton not so far away, nothing but niche services make sense, but those are unsustainable with such a small catchment population. The holiday charters make sense to Jersey and skiing in the winter for example but only if your staff used for handling and promoting those operations are doing something else most of the time. I guess it's back to shipping Sheikh Mo's horses then, could turn the terminal into stables....

[Romaro]

Never made any sense at CBG having one third party team run the private jet terminal, the FBO (Execujet) for typically just two private flights a day and an entirely separate team for the commercial terminal. Both should have been manned by the same staff. Any business aircraft that had to go through security screening had to go through the commercial terminal anyway which was a bit of an inconvenience and handicap for both the users and the FBO staff.

[01475]

The airport tells me, a long time after I asked, that in fact the Gothenburg flights will be continuing.

[AdamThePassenger]

No more scheduled services at Cambridge from 24th March :(

Cambridge - Gothenburg | Gothenburg - Cambrigde (http://www.uk.sun-air.dk/cms.cfm?nPageNo=100024)

Cambridge - Gothenburg
Dep. Arr. M T W T F S S Flight nr.
07:00 10:00 · · · · BA8235

Gothenburg - Cambridge
Dep. Arr. M T W T F S S Flight nr.
18:00 19:00 · · · · BA8236
This timetable is valid until 26 March 2016
(Thursday is the 24th)

The remaining BA flights are no longer bookable on any day, with the booking engine always bringing back:

Error
We are unable to find seats for your journey. The most common reasons for this are:
You may have requested a route that we do not operate at that time of year.
We may not fly to the destination you have chosen.
What you can do:
Search again using different dates.
View our network
View our flight timetable
Contact us

Adam

[litefoot1]

Perhaps there will be a different timetable after 24th March?

[tigertanaka]

BA/Sun Air will continue to operate the route for Astra Zeneca employees but the flights will not be publicly bookable. This is apparently to save costs. I flew this route a couple of weeks ago an there were 8 passengers on the plane.

[chesna152]

BA/Sun Air will continue to operate the route for Astra Zeneca employees but the flights will not be publicly bookable. This is apparently to save costs. I flew this route a couple of weeks ago an there were 8 passengers on the plane.

There may be an obvious answer I am missing but how exactly will this save costs? Surely any public tickets sold subsidise the cost to AZ/BA? I presume the AZ employees still have to clear security and have use of the terminal/lounge so where do the savings come from?

[Flightrider]

As a private charter with only "known" customers aboard, they are likely to be able to remove any requirement for full NASP-compliant security. The costs of providing that, with staffing and oversight, on a daily basis is not insignificant.

[Cambridge172]

So, just announced today that Marshall will close Cambridge airport completely within ten years and relocate hangar ops at least to another airport whilst developing 12,000 houses on land.

Gob Smacked!

[N707ZS]

They started this about ten years ago. They will be very welcome at Durham Tees Valley airport the local Mayor has a large pot of cash for inward investment, some of us locals could do with a new employer.

[BA318]

“New sites being considered are Duxford and Wyton in Cambridgeshire, and Cranfield in Bedfordshire.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48269651?fbclid=IwAR0MlTtKxI33dmgPsMtpSTnaBHdUi-HsJ5hLUuGYQ1NmbQ_N5kcy2ROSZ80&__twitter_impression=true

Given 777s have landed at Cambridge for work by Marshalls surely they will have to give up such work if they go to Duxford?

[pabely]

Wyton has got to be the only serious contender, Duxford, bless, Cranfield maybe. With Wyton only 'up the road' then Ok for existing employees.

[southside bobby]

Cambridge....12,000 homes/5m sq ft of business & commercial space.

Manston...….2,500 homes/200 acres of manufacturing units.

Plymouth.....1500 homes possible.

A shiver still looking for another aerodrome spine or two to run up yet perhaps.

[Planespeaking]

Cambridge....12,000 homes/5m sq ft of business & commercial space.

Manston...….2,500 homes/200 acres of manufacturing units.

Plymouth.....1500 homes possible.

A shiver still looking for another aerodrome spine or two to run up yet perhaps.
Its a great shame SSB, another 50,000 cars on local roads, not enough schools, doctors or hospitals. I'm afraid the next one into intensive care could be SOU with no real investment and a severe decline in operators and services. There is obviously more money to be made from property development than the odd landing fee from a Dornier.

[LTNman]

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/cambridge-aerospace-company-marshall-gets-26735933

[pabely]

That is alot of investment at Cranfield, what next, a FBO moving in at Cranfield as pressures rise at Stansted & Luton?

[OzzyOzBorn]

I'm afraid the next one into intensive care could be SOU

Do you really mean SOU (Southampton)? Or are you thinking of SEN (Southend)? Or somewhere else entirely?

[pabely]

Do you really mean SOU (Southampton)? Or are you thinking of SEN (Southend)? Or somewhere else entirely?
Look at the date of the post, almost 4 years ago.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Ah yes ... a fast mover this thread! 😀

[pabely]

Does Cranfield deserve it's own thread?
Now this is interesting too https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/merger-will-boost-uk-aerospace-industry-britten-norman-and-caes-chiefs/152957.article