Net Jets Interchange Fees

[MGZA]

Hello,

I posted this before but probably in the wrong area. Sorry, just learning the system.

I am looking RELIABLE information regarding the interchange fees at Net Jets Europe, specifically Midsize jets, or H750. As i understand, there is a gaurenteed ability to downgrade. Upgrading is subject to availabilty.

My question is, when you downgrade to a H400 for example, you will pay the normal H400 hourly rate but what is the Interchange fee(if any) for making the change?

Any information regarding this will be very helpful. Also, any other additional cost prospective clients need to be aware for when they go with Fractional Ownership with Net Jets.

[bizjet inmate]

There is no fee, and if they downgrade you, the hourly "charge" is lower. For example, if you have an hourly card, a H400 or a Bravo is treated as 1 unit, a 125 or excel is 1.2 units and so on. Usually upgrades only as a token, or if a larger jet already in position or available crew etc.

Hope this helps. Are you crew or a broker?

[MGZA]

Thanks Biz Jet Inmate.
Are you current or EX Net Jets if I may ask?
I am just conducting my own reseach and have a profound interest in private jets and the different business models or concepts offered.
I think Net Jets has a lot to offer, but I am truly trying to achieve an objective comparsion between Fractional and Ad Hoc chartering.
Finding the disavantages to AD Hoc are quite easy. But I want to even the field a bit by finding out some of the problems with Net Jets fractional from expierenced individuals in the know.
Again, not looking for "drum beaters" Just need help in objective comparisons.
I thought "interchange fees" with Net Jets would be a disadvantage but I may be mistaken. Your thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated.

[MGZA]

I have enough info on jet cards, its the murky world of net jets fractional i want to find out more about.

[redsnail]

I am current crew, the info is available from NetJets London office. Give them a call. :ok:

[No RYR for me]

murky world of net jets fractional Not really murky. Used to be with NetJets and the one thing in their advantage is that it is all straight forward. Like Redsnail says: call london and you have an answer

[falconbis]

Call the sales guys in London Office they will be happy to give you an explanation on how it works, you will be able to make your own mind and get your answer.
however you can go on 3w netjetseuropedotcom you will found a presentation about Fractional versus Charter .

No Murky world at Netjets, its strait forward, no hidding cost neither, you can budget what you gone pay as the fees are garanted and fixed for the next 3 or 5 years depend on the fleet you are on.
After 16 years of Operation in Europe, the Murky Netjets world would have been well known and documented already..
Are you new in the bizness ???

[DA50driver]

You need to look into resale values for the fractional owners as well. After a few years flying fractional the plane will have considerably more time than a private aircraft and will command a lower resale value.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

No Murky world at Netjets

Yerrr right, prior to the recession they had taken the money for over 120 aircraft, were actually flying just under 100 and had crews for 85.

The amount of waste that ultimately the customer is paying for is quite frankly ridiculous, cancelled cars/catering/hotels must be millions

They also sell a quarter share in a B400 for 1.5Mill$ having purchased the whole thing for 3.2, now when I went to school.....

The B400 was a good buy for NetJets, the fact they cancelled dozens of CJ3's is testament to the fact that they dont take the residual risk...

Whats a flogged B400 worth after 4 years :oh:

[On standby]

That's strange G Spot, at the end of 2008 NJE had 165 aircraft and 1000 crew.

Don't know where your figures are from.

Of course, you could just want to bash NJE.

[No RYR for me]

You need to look into resale values for the fractional owners as well.

Absolutely: buy one secondhand and you will buy at the lower resale value :)

Yerrr right, prior to the recession they had taken the money for over 120 aircraft, were actually flying just under 100 and had crews for 85.

Err we had nearly 160+ aircraft and still not enough... Crews for 85?? :confused: Get your facts right mate... :zzz:

The one thing about NetJets is that they have been very decent to us despite the recession and that crewing was never an issue after the changes made post 2006. Can you name any other operator that guarantees you a schedule and doesn't call you on your off days? :D

[Phil Brockwell]

Getting back on subject......

So, let's imagine I have a share in a 400XP and I wanted to go from the UK to Moscow - how do they charge for an upgrade to a Hawker?

Phil

[MGZA]

Thanks for all the responses. To be honest, I am a prospective buyer and not decided which route to take.

In my opionion, its seems hard to justify the aquistion cost and monthly management fees when i can go to the charter market and get a "turn key" jet ready to go. And just fly when i need to fly with no additonal cost.

I have looked into the jet cards, and lets be honest, those are a total rip off, even with the USP that they charge for live sectors.

I am a bit torn, as the branding of Net Jets seems to be very good but as I was doing research, I found this link below on line. Does anyone at Net Jets care to elaborate?


Sokol Threatens to Shut Down NetJets | Alice Schroeder: The Official Website (http://www.aliceschroeder.com/blog/sokol-threatens-shut-down-netjets)

[No RYR for me]

Hi Phil call London to get the latest interchange rates. Take the actual flight time, add some minutes taxi time multiply with interchange and there you have the answer :ok:

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Didnt say when prior to the recession it was around 2006, this info from my succesful interview at FAB Fsi. :=

Not trying to Bash Netjets in any way, haven't done before so why start now, NJE is far from transparent in its operation, you lot still working on a Portugese AOC for a London registered company but paid out of the IOM??

Lies damn lies and subpart K accounting springs to mind...

And interesting that its crewing numbers that people jumped over from my previous post, we certainly didn't see people commenting on the wasteage comment or do we just not discuss that.

That said standards at NJE are second to none, but please dont pee in my pocket and try to convince me its raining. Its a "fat" company unconstrained by residual risk which gives it an advantage over traditional charter.

[falconbis]

if you own a 400 yu are garanted a 400 now if you ask for a fleet upgrade to go to moscow its base only on availability which mean you may not have an 800 if none available taht day as its not garanteed. they will offer you a 2000 or upper instead, you won t pay money but they will charge you for example as i m not sure of the rate 2h of 400 for a 1h 2000 but as you will reach moscow in less time it will probably don t cost many more than flying with your 400.
Some owners take the risk to ask for a 400 still hoping that NJE will prefer to keep that airplane in europe where is demand and a 2000 or G5 is in Luton and had to be ferry to Moscow area so you get a free upgrade !

I have flown Bravo owners on 7x to Nice because we had to ferry to Nice the take 7x pax next day..the fleet is so large that we often do that and that a good sales tool. NJE do not do the other way around unless its a owner request.

PS: we do have a site call skyshare where 640 crew can t talk about all the bad of the companyand we have a tread call NJE waste, we just don t do it publicly

Netjets is not a UK company NTA is register in Portugal but thanks to Europe and UK lowest social tax and benefits to be paid by employer, they used the sale office in London to gave us UK contracts

[redsnail]

paid out of the IOM
Not any more.

Crews who live in the UK have had "on shore" fully taxed contracts for many years. The folks who live on the continent came "on shore" a couple of years ago.

Accountants can make 1+1 = whatever you need it to. :ok:

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Now come on smallfry old chap you cant have it both ways, you cant tell a prospective owner not to pay much attention to whats on Pprune and then counter a legitimate query regarding a leaked internal NJ email by directing them to a fox news interview!

If Fractional suited everybody then the very same accountants and advisers would all be beating down Lisbons door and everybody would be buying a share.

Fact is not everybody is and therefore it doesnt suit everybody, despite that "London" will do a no doubt damn fine job of convincing you otherwise.

Again not NJE Bashing just the other side of the see-saw.

As opposed to discussing the waste issue on skyshare - why not discuss it internally and get the problem thats as old as the Ark bottomed out.

[MGZA]

Thanks Everyone, maybe we can all get together on Jerry Springer and sort this out. LOL

My reasons for seaking individuals on PPrune is to get some insider advice without seeking it from an aggresive salesman. As mentioned in my previous post, i wanted to get both sides of the coin and for what its worth, without stirring, i do appreciate the debate currently going on. I want conduct my own research on my own terms and in my own time.

One last question before I do go speak to NJ london sales office. If I buy 100 hour fractional share and only use 95 hours in a year. What happens to those 5 hours? Conversley if I go over my contracted 100 hours. What are the additional charges for going over what I have contracted for.

[deskjockey101]

if you want some impartial advice, and also you may want to save some money there are 2 companies who "trade" in used shares and contracts from all the fractional providers.
In Europe it's Fractional Jet Europe and in the US it's Frac Trade, part of Dugger and Company.....so you could either get some advice for free, and look at the possibility of a used share, with a less onerous contract length and maybe some free (sorry unused) hours as well. Both nice companies, with owners who have both worked across the industry for a long time.

DJ

P.S. just as an aside, there is a premium built into the NJ interchange tables which means that on interchange the price you pay is NOT the same as if you were an owner/card holder of that particular aircraft type.

[falconbis]

MGZA

if you have flown only 95 h this year 5 hours will be recredit for the following year, so you will have 105 h available next year if you fly above your 100 h contract the first few hours ( don t know the number exactly..) will be bill like your previous 100 h above those few its getting really expensive I guess to push you to buy into a higher hours contract .

As not everyone seems aware of it, Netjets sells used shared as well based on the numbers of hours or age the airplane you are bying is having, shares have differents value if you want a new airplane or used one, Lease is available as well .
One big selling point is that when or if you have to leave the program Netjets garanty by contract that they will be bying you back your share at the blue book value at the time you want to exit. That s the power of BH behind even so it cost BH 600 Musd last year to buy back those shares from owners who could not afford it anymore, no other Companies can do this in the industry.

[Alphabet soup]

My understanding is the same as deskjockey, if an NJ owner uses an aircraft type other than the one they have bought in to I think the interchange ratio means they pay more than a client who has purchased that type? so if you upgrade or downgrade with NJE you possibly pay a premium over what the other clients pay. used to be the case anyway.
This was what i saw last time i looked at their ratios. it was a kind of hidden interchange fee. But as none of their pricing or ratios are in the public domain its up to the prospective client to work it out for himself... caveat emptor...

The fact they use ratios, rather than prices, makes it hard to figure out. Publishing the interchange as a € figure would be just as easy and far more transparent...........

PS the Air Partner JetCard scheme seems to be a very popular and 100% transparent alternative to Netjets :-)

dont ALL throw fruit at me at once! its almost Friday.....

[No RYR for me]

PS the Air Partner JetCard scheme seems to be a very popular and 100% transparent alternative to Netjets :-) 100% transparent?? Who will you fly with? What is the training of their pilots? What is the background of the pilots? Are they properly paid and fed? What is the background of the aircraft? etc.... :ooh:

I would say if you go that road you are better of having a GOOD broker who checks prior to each flight more things than only his commision and get a chartered flight meeting your minimum standards rather then one that meets only your brokers minimum standards.... :8

[falconbis]

exactly.. transparent in that case mean cheapest operators available that day on the market for the brooker to get the maximum margin !! Fair enough ? ;)

[psk71]

speaking from personal experience, NJE do NOT offer blue book value upon an "owner" seeking to exit from a fractional share at the point when they are obligated to repurchase your share. they offer "fair market value", less a remarketing fee. fair market value is a defined term in the contract and can be at a significant discount to blue book valuation - it is based on an appraisal conducted by a jet broker (for instance one whose primary business is selling NJ aircraft, so in their pocket). read closely the contract as they will gloss over this feature when they sell you the shares. the mechanism for valuing the shares offers some protections but doesn't really work very well and you are foolish if you expect them to offer you a fair price in difficult times... their leasing option as i understand it does give you protection on residual value but their recent behaviour in for owners has not been to offer anywhere near blue book valuation to exiting owners.

[falconbis]

In difficult time nobody will give you anything.. if you own a plane you get stuck with it and the cost associated untill bizness picks up again, it could be years! Netjets is not a philantropic association but you will be able to get out of the deal in bad time ! nobody else offer that option.