Operators who dont reply to an application.

[Mrs Johnson]

My son who is out of work has applied to 2 operaters who are based in Europe. in response to their advertisements for pilot positions. He has not yet received a response, from applications, inspite of indications they would respond.

I think there should be as name and shame list of operators, who are too arrogant to even acknowledge an application. This may assist applicants to weed out the arrogant from the compasionate, when the job market picks up.

I will tee off.

TAG Aviation

Air Alsie

[No RYR for me]

Probably because he needs his mother to sort things out :rolleyes:

But seriously most operators only contact suitable candidates due to the sheer workload of applications. And having seen the lists of candidates received I can agree :8

[Crosswind Limits]

Mrs Johnson

How old is your son and why is he getting his mother to do his work? True or not this is very weird! :confused::hmm:

In an ideal world all qualified applicants would be acknowledged. In reality it often doesn't happen. Get over it and move on! Did your son meet the requirements and did he apply in the correct format?

TAG is a good employer as the vast majority of pilots would attest.

What a bizarre thread!!??:confused:

[LAS1997]

I must say that I do have a certain amount of sympathy for Mrs Johnson and her son. It is just common courtesy to send a reply; even if negative when someone makes an application for a job. In these days of email; it does not take long just to drop someone a line; but it seems that some companies dont even have the decentcy to do this.

My advice to Mrs Johnson and her son is not to give up and continue the search for employment.

[hollingworthp]

TAG replied to me - they have an online application system so unless you are trying to circumvent it, can't see why you wouldn't get a response.

[Phil Brockwell]

I have an idea! If pilots stopped applying for jobs when they don't meet the requirements, sending CV's when they are not asked for, or turning up without an appointment for a chat then maybe the people dealing with the applications would have enough time to reply. Alternatively they could knock a few grand off the salary on offer so that someone could be employed to send "thanks, but no thanks emails".

You think you are doing someone some sort of favour by sending your CV? It's not a sodding dinner party, don't expect thank you letters.

[potatowings]

Having been on both sides of the coin I can tell you that if/when i send an application, I know it is another piece of paper on a mountain. I have come to expect that it will either mature into a job or get lost in the post/email ether and nothing in between. If I do get a response I am simply surprised and nothing more.

I know how challenging it is for recruiters and I also know how frustrating it is for candidates.

When young and unemployed I estimate I applied to over 800 companies world wide and received maybe 50 responses. Not typical I know as I took a very unscientific approach to applications, but that's life.

[SpoolingUp]

Mrs Johnson does say that the operators "indicated that they would respond" - and that is completely different from the standard brick wall approach.

TAG are actually very good - I used the online format and got the standard "thanks for coming" approach so I circumvented the system completely and managed (without internal assistance) to get my CV onto the Chief Pilot's desk - I certainly got a response then, as HR wrote to me and rebuked me in a "School Mistress Domantrix" kind of way for outsmarting the system - "there is an online system you know"

I have been on both sides too. Most operators do not respond if you do not match their criteria, especially if you send an application in hardcopy by overland/air mail and it hasn't been asked for. On the other hand if it is asked for and it is electronic you tend to get an automated response at least, and on the odd occasion even a personal "thanks for coming" response - and on the very very very odd occasion you even get invited for interview.

In my last job we advertised for a Capt's position and said we would Type Rate the successful applicant (Yikes!) - we got in excess of 200 applicants ranging from the newly qualified with 200hrs to the newly made redundant with 25,000hrs - we responded to every single applicant and about 6 said "Thank you" for replying - "No, thank you", "No, I insist, Thank You" - alot of work - it made us feel better but didn't gain us anything because we didn't employ anyone in the end.

Mrs Johnson - It doesn't matter whether its aviation or any other business, I am afraid rarely does anyone respond to an application, even if they say they intend to. I wish you and you son good luck with the job hunt - go get them with the Brolly and Handbag treatment :)

[No RYR for me]

When young and unemployed I estimate I applied to over 800 companies world wide and received maybe 50 responses. Now that is the spirit! Sending 800: impressed! :ok:

Beats sending two and have your mother complain on Pprune :D

[OutsideCAS]

Alternatively they could knock a few grand off the salary on offer so that someone could be employed to send "thanks, but no thanks emails".


But wouldn't that mean that anyone pilot at your place Phil would be paying you ?! :E (only messing)

[Davjet]

Just 2 applications and the world is over!! I sent maybe thousands and only got a fraction back. I wish it only took 2 applications to get a reply and a job. Not to dishearten your son, but there are thousands of Pilots out there all trying to get a job, and some have been waiting years just to land one, I've been waiting 10 years myself but still looking and applying. You need thick skin in this business or you may as well look at doing something else. HR departments probably receive 100s of emails daily, and the process is to sort and pick out the applicants with the most experience generally or specific experience on the type of aircraft a company may operate. They haven't got the manpower to respond to all those that didn't meet their requirements. Infact most companies state that if you don't get a response take it that you have been unsucessful this time round, as if they really wanted your son he would have received a response very swiftly. I think you're doing your son more harm than good by naming and shaming companies that don't reply. No doubt they'll know who your son is when they do a quick check on applications a lot of Chief Pilots responsible for hiring read a lot of the comments here, all they need to do is look up anyone with the last name Johnson (if that's his real surname) and will be able to deduct who your son is. I'm assuming he's a young lad by the fact you posted on his behalf, he should have really done so himself. I sympahise with you as aviation is a costly business and this could be reason for his/your frustration in not getting responses. He just needs to carry on applying and maybe calling up HR departments, and one day hopefully soon, the answer will be yes pop in for an interview.

[Chicken Leg]

I do have some sympathy, as in pretty much any other industry, you could expect a reply to each application. Sadly not in aviation!

This industry is full of wannabes who are so desperate to get a seat in the front of an aircraft, that all normal employment 'rules' are off. They pay for a type rating; worse, they pay to actually work. They apply for jobs that they are not qualified for, or don't have the experience for etc etc. Would you reply to 1000 applications, even when 980 of them blatantly don't meet the stated minimum requirements? Probably not.

Don't get me wrong, we've probably all applied for jobs where we didn't meet the stated minimum requirement - I certainly have, but I wasn't too surprised or upset when I didn't receive a reply.

I'm sorry to say, this industry is f****d up and normal economics don't apply. If I wasn't in it already, I certainly wouldn't join it now.

[INNflight]

Not wanting to bark up the same tree here as I too have sent hundreds, but even outside of aviation it is very uncommon to receive replies these days.

It's just down to the market. If they are desperate to hire people, you'll get responses. At the moment they are not.

BTW: I am still not sure whether we're being trolled or not.... :suspect:

[No RYR for me]

100% sure we are being trolled by a guy who hates the fact that he is not getting a response and hence plays his mother :p But that is the joy of bulletin boards :ok:

[Evanelpus]

Mrs J

Forget your son, send 'em your CV, sounds like you have more go in you than your son. lol

[x933]

I think Phil has hit the nail on the head.

If you get an interview then it's a different kettle of fish; but if you're punting after stuff you are in no way qualified for and expect someone to reply then sorry - but it's just not how the industry works. What are the indications that they would respond?!

Aside from that, applying to two operators...he's not picky is he?!

[Quality Time]

Phil Brockwells attitude sums up the sorry state of this business to me, who wants to work for a guy like that? I get the impression he runs one of the better outfits........??

In a couple of years he may well be gagging for a few CVs to drop through his door.

In the past I know guys picked up jobs they really didn't expect to get just by sending lots of CVs.

Anyway the kid is getting an accurate picture of what to expect....toss all!

[Pace]

Mrs Johnson Is aged 60 on her profile so son unlikely to be a 18 yr old kid but possible.

Then you have to question how she knows about pprune unless her son already posts here. If he posts here why not place the question himself?

Phil Brockwell watch what you say I know a pilot whos wife is built like a tank, has a temper like a volatile volcano and wields a studded handbag. Half Irish Half Scottish not one to cross! Known for crushing nuts with her bare hands :E

So a nice reply saying how you wish him all the best in his chosen career bla bla bla just incase he has a Mother like Olive :ugh: You can even churn a few hundred out on the photocopier ready to go!!! You get pretty angry wives as well as mothers or are the wives really Mothers?

Pace

[Lucky7s]

:ok::bored::eek::ugh::{:oh:

[THEMRS]

Mrs Johnson, I am a wife of an unemployed Pilot and if your son expects to get a response well he might want to think of choosing a different industry to work in.
I read these forums as often as I can, and have a good giggle and a right moan on some of them, but the one thing that I have noticed is that the guys on this site tell it how it is, be it the good the bad or the ugly.
I watch my husbad fill in application after application, and he still persevers, as I am sure so many other unemployed pilots do.

So if you son has only sent out 2 applications tell him to man up move out and get on with his life and if he has a wife and children then my thoughts go out to them because I know what it is like to be the Pilots Wife

[PicMas]

Seems the name & shame list is not going so well?!?
What a stupid suggestion, in ones first post (at least with that username), to mention two reputable companies as candidates for such a list.

That, however, does not make the idea of a list a bad one.
How about a list of selfpaying morons, the losers that paid for ratings and work, the identity-pilots that kept yours truly behind the wheel of a taxicab for too long, the 21yr old flight school graduates with 15 years aviation business experience, making weak excuses for having no backbone, the know-it-alls that "just want to get the career started" thus paying Ryanair, Pegasus or some other absolutely bottomfeeding operator for the privilege of making a colleague unemployed.
In short... the people that turns this profession into an expensive hobby for snotty-nosed punks with rich parents.

The scab-list from the days of old was a harsh, but righteous and just way of dealing with the undesired elements. Maybe it is time for a new list!

Ok, maybe a list is not required, just a bit of vigilance when in a position of screening for interviews/ jobs. Keep the deteriorators of aviation excellence on the low-cost or unemployed side of the fence. Don't reply to these applications.

ohhh... and a good morning, hope I don't come across as opinionated:}

[Mrs Johnson]

A lot of of assumptions here.

Don't assume anything. Assume makes an ASS of yoU and ME.

My son may well have 10,000hrs, meet the minimum advertised requirements and be currently employed as aircrew.
.

[His dudeness]

getting my popcorn...:D

[bizjet inmate]

10,000 hours on Microsoft Flight Simulator doesn't count Mrs J...........

But out of interest, Does your son have previous biz jet experience? if not he is aiming high applying for TAG......or did you apply for him?...can't remember now.....

[PicMas]

He may indeed have thousands of hours, may also be currently employed as aircrew.

737 or 320? Or maybe ATR?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Oh this is too funny to miss.

Does your son often say the phrase "Bitty" and if so, how do you respond?

[skylog]

:}:suspect: this has to be a windup!!..now the wives are getting involved?!?!?

[bizjet inmate]

They always have Skylog....or hasn't she told you?

But Mrs J claims to be his dear ole Mum......not wife......next Jeremy Kyle will be putting his opinion in....cant wait

[proceeding outbound]

Well the whole thing doesn't really add up as TAG have an on-line application system that generates automatic responses. Finger trouble perhaps? Years ago I applied for a position at TAG. When they changed to the on-line system I got a letter from them requesting me to apply through the website. I did and got an immediate response and even though I am now happily employed I still get job updates from them periodically.

TAG probably receives hundreds of CV every month with dozens of pilots sending follow up emails as well as phone calls. The Chief Pilot would be neglecting his primary functions if he were to respond to each applicant - simple as that. :ok:

[Say again s l o w l y]

A lot of of assumptions here.

Don't assume anything. Assume makes an ASS of yoU and ME.

My son may well have 10,000hrs, meet the minimum advertised requirements and be currently employed as aircrew.

Well for a start you mentioned that your "son" was out of work, so I think we can safely ASSUME that he isn't "currently employed as aircrew."

A good trolling job though, it made me giggle. I'll bet there are people out there that are mental enough to want to fight their grown sons employment battles for them in this way.

If you really want to help, slip on the suspenders and go and visit the chief pilot with a bottle rohypnol, a Polaroid camera and a Sheep called Betsy. Blackmail is a perfectly reasonable way of getting your diddums a job.*






*Obviously, I am joking.

[FlyingGasMain]

Hey, this is good. Mrs Johnson is an a*se kicking momma. Have all the front row tickets been sold ?

[An2]

Air Alsie is one fine company to deal with!
But, of course, you have to apply in the very same manner as everyone else; on-line application.
If you do that, you will get an automated reply, saying;

Thank you for your application as a Pilot in Air Alsie.

We do receive many uninvited job applications, and we do appreciate that so many show interest in Air Alsie. We will keep your application on file and in case of an interview you will hear from us.

Please keep your CV updated at all times.


This is a system generated e-mail. You can not reply to this e-mail.

Why name`n´shame a company that at least gives you the courtesy of a mail?! :confused:
Play by the rules, and thou shall be rewarded! :E

[silverware]

Mr. Johnson,

get used to it, this industry isn't particulary known for its courtesy towards applicants.

[dynamite dean]

Companies that dont reply, blimey my friends dont reply when I send them an email! :E

[swampthing]

That is because you have not yet paid your outstanding friendship fees mr DYNAMITE !! :=

[fernytickles]

getting my popcorn...

Pass it around, would you. Am off to get in the comfy chair - 2011 is starting off as a great year on pprune.... :ok:

How soon before this goes to JB????

[Biggin Still]

Mrs Johnson, as he has so much time on his hands, can your boy come out to play??

[737WJD]

This is as funny as it gets. Are you serious?
Quit washing his clothes, making his lunch ,and matching his clothes and tell him to grow a pair.
In my opinion, this is no business for moma's boys anyway.
Maybe you could get him a job as a librarian( not that there's anything wrong with it).

[ShyTorque]

I have an idea! If pilots stopped applying for jobs when they don't meet the requirements, sending CV's when they are not asked for, or turning up without an appointment for a chat then maybe the people dealing with the applications would have enough time to reply.

I had an idea! I travelled 6,000 miles to knock on a door. I got an interview the following day and was offered a 3 year contract flying job, just ten minutes after the interview finished.

[Bertie Thruster]

I had an idea. I phoned the company I was interested in joining and told them I was on holiday in the area and could I drop my cv in that day.

A frantic 3 hr drive later I was at the front desk handing over the envelope when the Ops Manager walked passed and stopped to ask who I was.

I left an hour later with job offer. (and still with them 14 years later)

They never asked why I wore a suit on holiday!

[ShyTorque]

Bertie, your post just reminded me of another, and very similar, good idea.

On holiday in UK from my foreign job, near the time to come back, I heard a rumour that a local police force was setting up an air support unit in the near future.

On Christmas Eve we happened to be driving past the police HQ, on the way to see my in-laws. My wife suggested I called in. I did, rang the bell! Ten minutes later I was having a cup of tea with the Unit Executive Officer to be. Three months later I was flying the police helicopter (when you weren't flying it, that is).

:ok:

[Bertie Thruster]

"If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door."

[BH06L3]

I traveled a very long way to Lao. Stopped by a helicopter company with resume in hand. No one in management was available and out of office for about a week. So I left a resume and was given a business card. Later I sent an e-mail and no response. I had an awesome trip and no regrets.

Not sure about the fixed wing side of things but I know at least in the helicopter industry that sitting on a computer sending resumes is the least effective way to get a job. There are a lot of qualified pilots out there, and the operators don't always choose the most qualified.

[swampthing]

I am going to ask MRS J if she would give my C.V out as well.. maybe to His Dudeness to read..... as I hold his popcorn... :ok: