Forthcoming Book on The 49ers

[6feetunder]

Forthcoming Book on The 49ers (http://www.cathaypilotsunion.org/generaldocs/Book.htm)

It won't be released until March but Amazon is accepting pre-orders.

Buy the Book (http://www.amazon.co.uk/49ers-John-Warham/dp/1846245877/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293660447&sr=1-1#productPromotions)

[moosp]

Good work John.

Now CX corporate comms will get a call from London to say that they need to do an, "Under Lion Rock", anodyne woffle to rebuff your "Syd's Pirates."

I am sure there are some superannuated failing authors who would be delighted to write and prostitute themselves to produce the CX version of what they want the world to think happened.

Anyway I'll buy a copy for the coffee table to educate those who were not there.

Pip Pip!

[Tornado Ali]

Congratulations John. I have just ordered the book. There should be at LEAST 2700 of these sold. Please everyone, spend just a few dollars and buy the book. The principle is important. I look forward to reading it. Best wishes.

[Cumguzzler]

Since I'm on the cover, Captain Warham should send me a copy free of charge

[Captain Dart]

How about sending the current CEO of Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority a free copy? :E

Come to think of it, ALL Star Chamber members should be sent one!

[Capt Toss Parker]

My aviation memoirs will be released this year ...

"Call Sign Gimp" Tales of a frustrated sky god in Asia.

There will be a photo and book signing opportunity for those interested, we expect to hold this event outside my favorite sauna in Kowloon.

Star Chamber offenders will be allocated a free copy as a sign of gratitude, for all their support over the years.

[Neptunus Rex]

Top news Toss.
Could we perhaps see some selected excerpts to whet our appetites?
Which of your favourite charities will benefit from the proceeds?

http://www.katzy.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/git.gif

[Capt Toss Parker]

No Rex ...

But what you will see this year is an expose of "PH" ..Dragon Air (CP), the prick who's been threatening the boys for "alleged" misdemeanors and sacking guys at whim.

Bye Bye "PH"

[Neptunus Rex]

Indeed Toss.

It is alleged on another thread that HSBC senior management are highlighting CX as an example of how not to run a large company.

[Offchocks]

Congratulations on the book John, I look forward to reading it.
It has certainly has been a long time since we were flying with Spotty M.

Cheers!
Bob

[numbawon]

Ordered!! Look forward to reading it! :ok:

[Fly747]

Keep it light Toss, not nice to see your "dark side".

[onprofile]

I hope the book will be available at all airport book stores. Well done John .

[jed_thrust]

Yes: a hearty congratulations from me too!

Well done, John.

:ok:

[BusyB]

Director Drivel seems to have a really thought provoking first post. Guilt I guess.:}

Ordered my copy, hope it helps towards costs.

[HotDog]

Well I hope it's a better read than Chick Eather's "Syd's Pirate's". There is an other one in the pipe line by Len Cowper, warts and all.

[Air Profit]

The fact it WAS his first post should tell you something. Quite pathetic for a management mole..... I predict the book will sell well, as it should.

[MrBernoulli]

Director Fury,

The very same publisher's website has a book just for you:
'Lunacy in a Nutshell' by Benjamin Walker
A detailed A-Z of madness for hypochondriacs and other neuroticsSee here:
Lunacy in a Nutshell :: Science & Nature :: Non-Fiction :: Book Guild Publishing Ltd (http://www.bookguild.co.uk/lunacy-in-a-nutshell-c-17-p-1-pr-1052.html)

Fill your boots! :rolleyes:

[parabellum]

Regardless of which side of the fence you are on, be reasonable, if this book sells more than about 3500 copies it will have done well.

[crwjerk]

It'll need to sell about 500,000 copies to recoup the losses the inept judge just stole from them.... Good luck guys.

[411A]

...can not believe that someone would actually publish this drivel!!

Neither can I however, the CX guys just simply cannot let it go.
I expect they will keep on bloviating about the '49er saga' for the next twenty years.
They fought city hall and lost.
A predictable outcome, considering the location.:rolleyes:

[Neptunus Rex]

Ah! Dear 411A

Every time he posts, on whatever topic, I visualise a geriatric redneck lying back on a rocking-chair, on a verandah in an oxygen-starved part of Arizona with a 20-Gallon hat (10 Gallons would not be anywhere near enough) cowboy boots, blue jeans, a checked shirt, and, of course, chewing tobacco.

In addition, there would be a 1/15th scale model of a Tristar suspended from the verandah ceiling.

Mrs 411A? She left years ago; which explains why he has so much spare time to post his diatribes on PPRuNe.

[Air Profit]

....she didn't 'leave'.....she topped herself.... :E

[411A]

...on a verandah
That part is correct.
Presently in central America, sipping bloody marys, smoking my trusty Havana, and for tomorrow, recurrent training (in the actual airplane) for our guys.

I can only LOL at the antics of the CX (especially the AOA) crowd...I suspect they couldn't come in out of the rain...if they tried.
Never mind trying to dictate to the company...that was tried before and 49...went away.
One then wonders...when will the next 49...go?
Was it somehow 'fair'?
Quite likely not, however, the company rules in HKG, or at least the courts seem to agree.
Throwing peanuts, anyone?:rolleyes:

[gobbledock]

Neptunus Rex, you got a few things wrong about 411A.

Firstly his missus is still alive but actually left him, his missus is actually his daughter, but since she left he now keeps a gimp in his basement !

Secondly, his checked shirt was ruined trying to wipe up the puddle of black oil pooling under his beloved three holer corroding away on a low humidity desert plain. He often leaves 'other' pudles underneath the old aircraft while he fantasizes about the good ol days. His only remaining shirt is actually a stained blue trucker's singlet. Recent untraviolet DNA testing of the mentioned singlet revealed sunstances that simply cannot be mentioned in a public forum.

Thirdly, he will not buy this book as he prefers to read books like 'Man and Beast' (rated x) and he likes to thumb through his EBay collection of old trident manuals while sitting in the outhouse.....

[Chronic Snoozer]

But boy does he know how to bait you guys!

[raven11]

411A

Like a connoisseur, when trying to determine the quality of a wine, will slosh a small amount in his mouth before spitting it out ...to those of us who have been here 15-20 years, your tone has a familiar ring to it. The arrogance is unmistakable.

You remind me of someone who, through nothing but blind luck, scores big in a rising housing market and then convinces himself it's because he's smart. You, sir, scored by joining in the late 70's or early 80's. But you were lucky, that's all.

Those of us, who were first officers in the late 80's /early 90's, and except for your type, had the pleasure of flying with some pretty spectacular guys. On the other hand, your type sold out your fellow pilots because you thought it would ingratiate you to your superiors. You poor fool…karma will take care of you.

Yes, we poor sods, while trying to stand against tyranny, may have lost countless lopsided battles in the courts of Hong Kong. But that will be an enduring legacy that will forever attest to our honour.

As for you…..

If you were a wine, I'd say you were a saucy GC or PH….or perhaps a perky little KB.

[drfaust]

Raven,

Even as an outsider that has nothing to do with Cathay, I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that all battles in the courts of HKG against CX seem hopeless does not mean they should not be fought. What is not right is not right and should be acted against. Nothing ever got better on it's own. It does indeed attest to your and your colleagues honour. Keep on appealing and appealing until there is nowhere else to appeal. If we don't even have the illusion of justice anymore, what else is there left? The persona depicted in my nickname sold his soul to the devil. I'm glad to see that there are still righteous men and women amongst us that have not done the same.

faust

PS: Why does anyone waste their valuable time answering to 411A? After all, after 8.5 thousand posts, one should be able to conclude that this guy has a miserable existence and should not be taken seriously.

[Neptunus Rex]

Let's face it, 411A is an amusing old cousin. PPRuNe would be rather dull without his ilk.

[parabellum]

Raven - Might help if you knew that 411A has never worked for CX!:D

[411A]

Might help if you knew that 411A has never worked for CX!
I expect that he doesn't care, or....is severely misinformed.
The problem now with many of the older CX FD crew is that they have a severe sense of entitlement, and desire the way things were in CX...long ago.
IE: large salaries, secure job until retirement, management that went along...well, that's all changed, in todays dog-eat-dog airline environment, and these older guys just simply cannot cope with the changes.

The blunt truth is...the gravy train that was once packed with CX flight deck crew, has promptly derailed, so...either put up with it, or leave.
Their choice.
Confronting CX management will not work, because...the HKG fix is in, with the regulatory authority, and the HKG courts.

Think I'm wrong?
Try and see...the 49ers found out first hand, much to their considerable dismay.

[Arfur Dent]

Not sure who invented the myth about the 'old guys' who live in the past and dream whimsically about days gone by. I know lots of Senior pilots in CX who think it's still great and really enjoy what they do. Speak for yourself 411 because you ain't talkin' for anyone I know.

[moosp]

Neptunus you are right, 411 is part of the furniture here and whilst showing frayed edges and scuff marks should not be consigned to the tip.

A healthy rebuttal in argument is vital. A reminder from the Fox News point of view is sometimes interesting so as to help formulate your reply.

411 sure pxxes a lot of people off, including myself, but he is a constant reminder of the character and moral code of an airline manager.

[Old Fella]

As one who did work for CX, in the so-called "Good Old Days", I read the same bleating posts from the same malcontents time after time. Maybe things have changed in terms of T's & C's, but the one constant is that no-one is nailed to the floor. I'll wager there are far more people employed by CX who believe they are better off than they were before joining than those who feel otherwise. If CX management is so tyrannical why not simply leave and find a "greener grass" employer? I suspect that the "belly acher's" would be whingeing no matter by whom they were employed. Before you start throwing hand grenades in my direction I did not leave with a big fat provident fund payout, but with abiding memories of a Company which always treated me fairly and paid me a just wage. Maybe some of those with a grievance should consider their options. Constant complaint will not sway the company and will serve only to heighten your own personal distress. John Warham's book will tell the 49er's story, from their point of view. Balanced account? I doubt it.

[jed_thrust]

Old Fella,

I doubt the book is meant to be balanced.

I suspect that he is keen to tell the truth instead - big difference.


As far as being paid a just wage, I earn about 80% less (in ppp) than you did, for about the same 70 stick hours.

Am I happy about it? No, but I can't find anywhere else to go that will take me on my current postion. A QF or BA pilot with my time in earns significantly more than I do, but as yet they havent replied to my job application.

The moment I can move my skill and experience around the world like other professionals, I will.

In the meantime, I remain a member of my AOA and do my best to keep the work/reward balance acceptable.

When the mortgage is paid and the kids are off my hands, well, then more options open up to me.

[BusyB]

"with abiding memories of a Company which always treated me fairly and paid me a just wage."

I'm sure that all here wish they could say the same but unfortunately after you left those features disappeared:ooh:

[olster]

I worked for cx a fair time ago and indeed in the 80s those were halcyon days. 411A - you can make some interesting points but you would be well- served to show a little compassion to the unwitting victims of grotesque cx mismanagement that became the 49-ers.

The arguments ref individuals in terms of their previous 'form' within the company are irrelevant. If a cx pilot had transgressed there was and remains a disciplinary process. The disgraceful and random, subjective and sudden sacking without appeal is a modern scar on the global airline industry. I will be buying John's book and I wish him and his fellow 49-ers best wishes and better fortunes.

[Arfur Dent]

Good points olster. The point is that Cathay's 'shoot-from-the-hip' actions were designed to put the workforce into its place and forever enhance the perpetrator's careers in the minds of Swires in London. They've all done pretty well out of it and have earned themselves some serious 'stripes' when it comes to who has the biggest cahoonas.
Remember that this action would have been illegal in most civilised countries and pretty undesirable too in modern Western democracies. The perpetrators are still around and sound ever so nice babbling about how they thank 'the team' etc in good and bad times. They'll ditch you in a heartbeat if it suits them with not even a backward glance.
Best not forget that.

[VR-HFX]

Busy

Well said.

I have ordered the book and wish JW all the best.

As someone who has been around this train set for quite a few years I will stick my oar into this thread, albeit with some trepidation.

There is more than enough blame to go around for everyone in the whole sorry episode.

There are, however, a few facts that seem to have vanished over time. Some of them still live in the search function of pprune but after a decade most young turks in CX have the gloss but not the detail.

Firstly we must start from the basic understanding that all history is revisionist.

The actions of management were basically unconscionable.I suspect no-one disputes that fact given their were D&G processes in the system. One only has to look at the list that IW gave to DG to get a feel for how amateur the whole process was.

That said, what is often overlooked is the fact that a strong majority of Star Chamber members were actually our professional colleagues. By my count 70%.

The DFO at the time is the key to this whole episode and hopefully spending his retirement with a good dose of insomnia (although I doubt it). He also should have hosed down the 'Peanut' incident but didn't.

He said to the senior Swire management that he would fix it.

JW always had a a bullseye on his forehead after taking a position at negotiations that 'this is a fish heads & rice offer' while we expect 'cabernet and caviar'. Not sure whether this is mentioned in the book but I must assume it is not.

KB said he would fix it and foolishly management accepted his bravado.

And as they say, the rest is history.

[6feetunder]

The 49ers, The True Story
By John Warham
Published by Book Guild Publishing
ISBN: 978-1-8462-4587-9
£12.95 (hardback)

This book is a cautionary tale for all pilots, both union and non-union.

In it, John sets out his experience and career path prior to the events surrounding the 49ers debacle, thereafter giving a full and robustly frank account of exactly what happened in the lead up to, and after, the infamous sacking of that group from Cathay Pacific. He covers the years of conflict after the event, culminating in the legal defeat of Cathay Pacific in the courts and the full vindication of the unfortunate pilots whose employment was terminated. There are one or two areas where it is quite hard going (legal transcripts necessary to the story), but for the most part it is a riveting read and has some serious salutary lessons for all professional pilots. John writes in a matter for fact and down-to-earth manner, doesn’t mince words and calls a spade a shovel!

Names are named, and I believe the contents to be the frankest account that I have read concerning any union dispute in any industry. If BALPA was a school, it would be compulsory reading!

It will be available from Amazon on 24th March and I can heartily recommend it.

Sandy Easton
The Log

[cadence]

I am still waiting for my copy, has anyone read it yet?

[BusyB]

Yes, read my Kindle copy. An excellent read John's background is interesting in its own right.:ok:

I understand hardcopy is slightly delayed.

[Stickitupem]

Well said!
:D

[Night Watch]

Hello,

We regret to inform you that the following items have been delayed as we are still awaiting stock from our suppliers :

John Warham "The 49ers"
Estimated arrival date: April 14 2011 - April 27 2011

One of Amazon's aims is to provide a convenient and efficient service; in this case, we have fallen short. Please accept our sincere apologies.

You have not been charged for this item. We do not debit money from your payment card until just before your items are dispatched. We will send you a dispatch confirmation email on the date of dispatch.

Sincerely,

Customer Service Department
Amazon.co.uk

[Gobblydegook]

Thanks for your words, BusyB.

However, as one who is still awaiting his Amazon copy, I would appreciate an amplified, objective critique if you have the time. From anyone, actually.

[stilton]

I have great respect for the Cathay Pilots but I find it a little difficult to sympathise with any Professional Airline Pilot only flying 70 hours a month.


Not knocking it, you deserve the contract you negotiate for and obtain but, by most standards thats not a heavy workload !

[Toe Knee Tiler]

Hey Stilton you smell of something.

Get up to date with what Cathay pilots really fly before you write stupid comments.

Or are you just stirring the pot cheese boy!

[AnAmusedReader]

https://mail.google.com/a/aoagroup.org/?ui=2&ik=1f7f89f390&view=att&th=12f4dbb51c405d1a&attid=0.3&disp=thd&realattid=59641e7cd0f16182_0.0.1&zw

was trying to post an ad for the book launch in HK on 21st of April at Bookazine in Princes Building, Central, 17:30.

[goneferrying]

The delay in printing or whatever is over.
Received my hardback copy (ordered from Amazon) yesterday.

[Old Pilot]

Just finished this book after downloading it from Amazon onto the iPad. I read it constantly over the past few days and couldn't put it down until I had worked my way through to the last page. A great read.

As an outsider but someone closely linked to a few of the names mentioned and a frequent operator into HKG over the past 15 years I have a small insight into the validity of this book. It brought back some sad memories of the appalling way in which Cathay went from an admired airline that many of us would have loved to fly for, to a deep pit of animosity and despair that was occasioned by the awful behaviour of their management.

The book begins with John's account of his start in aviation which, although interesting, I found a little self serving. John had a colourful start in aviation but hardly unique and many have walked the same path. The book took off for me when he started his account of the dispute between management and the AOA. This starkly accurate and gripping story is one that is hard to believe except that I know it is true. The despicable actions of management are best read for oneself as to try to repeat them here would only dilute their impact. The book continues into a fascinating account of the legals that finally revealed to us all what lying bastards were employed by Swire to do their dirty work.

I finished the book with mixed feelings. The guilty had hardly been made to pay for their crimes whereas the victims of their vicious campaign paid dearly and continue to do so. Had CX management been tarred and feathered and paraded up and down the runway at Kai Tak before being drowned in the canal of sewage that ran down the side of the runway I might have felt satisfied. As it is, all I can hope is that this story is read by as many pilots as possible.

Join your Union and stick together for dear life or this story might just become yours!

[crwjerk]

As usual, I'm rostered 70 hours next month. I am sure there are many more. Go figure.

[Gobblydegook]

Thanks for the review, Old Pilot.

I couldn't wait for Amazon and read the e-version. It took me 3 days too - the hardback arrived on Day 3 :ok:

Your summary says it all. I think a non-aviator might gain some better perspective of the later chapters having read how a "typical" (ho-ho) pilot builds his career in the early days. I have to admit at having had quite a few chuckles at the beginning, too.

I wonder whether the "average" pilot will discount The 49ers' tale as boring history? It seems to me that the cycle continues today e.g. look at AHK freighters and compare with ASL. To me, like "On Wooden Wings" and "Flying the Line", John's story is almost as essential for a professional aviator as re-checking the memory items after leave. I think it will become a classic.

It's just too tempting not to highlight one chapter out of a 400+ page book: Chapter 23 "Betrayal". It starts with the quote by Winston Churchill: ‘An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile – hoping it will eat him last.’

It's rather tragic, but the actions taken in that chapter sealed the fate of The 49ers by turning the AOA's strategy around. So much for "Teamwork before all else. NO POLITICS! We are all on the same team; we succeed or fail as a team".

I feel - looking at the overall result - the AOA failed as a team. The fact that the "opposition" broke the Law isn't really relevant - we should have been able to deal with it and produce a better outcome. Those Judas's amongst us should hang their heads in shame. Those sucked in by the Judas' spin have learned a bitter lesson. Let everyone else learn from those mistakes - we can't afford to keep re-inventing the wheel in unionism.

Unfortunately, I'm flying tomorrow and will be unable to make the book-signing, so will miss the tea and biccies at Bookazine. Nonetheless, I congratulate John Warham, on not only an excellent book, but also for such inspirational leadership over some 15 years.

Court of Final Appeal here we come!

(PS If you haven't read it -do so!)

[16down2togo]

Dear Cathay colleagues,
I will have a layover in HKG 21./22. Apr.
Will the book be available in most HKG book stores
or is there a special place to get it?
Thanks
16

[Gobblydegook]

It's available in Bookazine, Dymocks, Swindon and the airport.

If you're in HK on evening of 21st then you should take advantage of the book signing at 5.30pm, Bookazine, 3/F Prince's Building (Central).

[16down2togo]

Thanks a lot!
Unfortunately I will only be landing around 0530loc.
16

[The Handover]

Gobbleydegook: You hit on an area that may not have been clarified in the book.
The initial industrial action,IIRC, took the form of a type of contract compliance ( WOE campaign - withdrawal of enthusiasm ) The AOA then instigated, perhaps under the influence of advice given by ALPA, several days of "mass sick-outs". This was never admitted by the AOA as being industrial action - the official line was "our members are too stressed to come to work".
The logic being that you can not be fired whilst on sick leave.

This in my opinion was a grave error of strategy which precipitated the backlash from DT. A dirty response to underhand, unacknowledged tactics.

[BusyB]

The Handover,

A first post and look at what you're saying. Not much O2 up there i guess:D

[6feetunder]

Here are some reviews from the Amazon website. If you've read the book then please share your thoughts on Amazon.



I read this book from cover to cover in one sitting (well, lie in actually, jet-lagged in a hotel).

I was, like Kelvin, in Hong Kong when the earlier events related in this book took place: pilots and engineers demoted or dismissed for minor or non-existent errors or differences in opinion. Also like Kelvin, I had the opportunity to leave before the disgraceful events of 2001 took place. Several of my friends were dismissed as 49ers but I didn't really appreciate how awful things were until I read this book.

This should be compulsory reading for all airline pilots, particularly those considering a move to HKG.

Well done John, great book!

Chris Parker.



John's book should be compulsory reading for all commercial pilots ( union and non-union alike). There are , also , salutory lessons there-in for other industry employees . It is gritty and sets out the FACTS about the debacle that was the sacking of the 49'ers from Cathay Pacific all those years ago. John calls it as he sees it and a spade is definitely a shovel. His writing is matter of fact , yet still holds his reader gripped by the twisting and wriggling of the developing court-case. Pilots need to read this on their next stop-over and their wives will enjoy it too.. mine did!
Airline managers would do well to read and learn from this also, remembering John's assertion that with responsibility comes ACCOUNTABILITY!
Do not hesitate to buy this book, you will find it a superb read.

Sandy Easton.



This is a sad story, and also an uplifting one about the resilience of the human spirit when faced with dramatic changes to their lives. I have to declare an interest here, as I was a 747 Captain with Cathay Pacific but retired before this whole issue came to a head. In fact, had I not done so, I'm convinced that I also would have been one of the 49ers!

The fascinating thing for me is the exposure of all the "behind the scenes" activity in this book. As a Member of the Union, I was only told what I needed to know and trust my colleagues to do their best for me. This I happily did - along with many others. The revelations about false information, deceit, disregard for the welfare of the crews and arrogance of Management is an object lesson for all. The transcripts of the Court case are fascinating - you can virtually see Cathay Management wriggling on the hook as their falsehoods are dissected with the rapier of a very competent QC!

There are lessons for all to be learnt here. A fascinating read, and not only for those in the aviation world.

Kelvin Sharman.



This book gripped me from the very beginning; for me, it was one of those "couldn't put it down" reads. It may well serve as an unofficial aviation bible for anyone who finds themselves in a similar position to the author. It will also appeal to the layman as Mr. Warham has written the book in a no nonsense way and done away with the `bells and whistles'.

The book starts with the author explaining how he got into aviation and worked his way up through the ranks and became a senior pilot on the Boeing 747 with Cathay Pacific Airways. Later, as well as being a pilot, Mr. Warham also became a prominent member of the HKAOA (Hong Kong Aircrew Officer Association) and then the Chief Negotiator with the CPU (Cathay Pilots Union). Whilst holding this position with the unions their main aim was to negotiate a better rostering practice for the pilots in an attempt to make the operation safer for themselves and the passengers they carried, and to reduce the stress the pilot's were under, which can ultimately cause something known as `cumulative fatigue'. The senior management however had little interest in the union's efforts and their pleas went largely ignored.

Cathay Pacific then sacked 49 pilots and in effect threw them out of their jobs and defamed them in the press and industry at large to the point where they became virtually unemployable. Cathay claimed that they were not sacked because of their union activities but because they were "not acting in the company's best interests", something the 49ers vehemently disagreed with and they eventually proved that this was not the case.

In a bitter twist and at a crucial point in the negotiations the union is suddenly split and one of the author's union colleagues and best friends, who also fought for the same issues and sat by his side throughout the negotiations, jumps ship without mentioning his intentions and tries to set up a break-away union on his own. This only serves to undo a lot of work which had taken years to set up just when it seemed the CPU were making progress with the Cathay management.

Throughout his career Mr. Warham obviously tried to uphold and pass on valuable legacies handed down to him by his father and his Uncle, who both fought in the RAF in WWII, and people in the industry who left a lasting impression on him. Two great quotes in this book are "the best we can hope for is to put as much back into it as we derive from it and leave our profession in a better condition than when we entered it", and later on when some of the senior Cathay management find themselves on the witness stand and wishing they were somewhere else entirely is "with responsibility comes accountability".

The author reveals how the Director of Flight Operations for Cathay Pacific at the time had a degree in `Zoology' - go figure! - and no experience whatsoever in the aviation industry prior to joining the airline. He explains how he'd seen the airline go from working with the staff to working against them, and he lays the blame squarely with the men at the top, The Swires of London, for their mismanagement of the airline.

I had some (what I later found out to be) misconceptions not only about commercial pilots but also the airline industry itself. I now have a better understanding of how the aviation industry operates and also how the legal system works in Hong Kong, and for me this book was a real eye-opener.

A very important point made by the 49ers (only 18 of them "the hard men" managed to stay the full course and later termed themselves the `Band Of Brothers') was that at no time had any of them breached the terms of their contracts. Mr. Warham states, as it currently stands no one employed in Hong Kong from any profession, regardless of their seniority within that company, can expect any protection from their contract of employment. As, in a court of law in Hong Kong their contract will be worthless. The author tells how he's still a shareholder in Cathay Pacific and how he would one day like the airline to succeed and be an airline that people are proud to represent.

A very well-written book that left me wondering whether or not there will be a sequel.

Bluetooth Whizz.

[Gobblydegook]

Having read the book, which was at pains to separate fact from fiction, and perused the judgments, I feel a little clarification is required following on from The Handover's and BuzzBox's comments.

Firstly, 4 independent referees (i.e. the HK judges to date), have summarised the events - or the history. There is no evidence put forward by the Company of any "sick-out" immediately prior to 9th July 2001.

The line of "our members are too stressed to come to work" was back in 1999, and was a result of CPA having given termination notices to 700 pilots. Fair call, I would say.

Contract Compliance (CC) had been on and off for about 5 years. The WOE campaign was in about 1987…

The Handover is correct that you shouldn't be fired whilst on sick leave (Employment Ordinance protection) however you do have to report one day… one of The 49ers was fired immediately on return to work on 11th July. Therefore, the other 49ers all must have been at work on 9th July - so hardly a "mass sick-out".

There is plenty of oral evidence from the likes of Tyler, Chen, Barley and Rhodes that The 49ers were fired pursuant to the union EGM decision to take Limited Industrial Action (LIA) - "the trigger" as one of the judges remarks. On 3rd July Maximum Safety Strategy (MSS) was implemented - all of which was about operations and nothing to do with sick leave procedures.

So, all in all, I'm afraid the facts don't support The Handover's statements, sorry, except for the "backlash" and "dirty response" to which I would say followed "above board, published tactics" i.e. CC, LIA and MSS.

However, I'm not going to disagree with BuzzBox as I can't vouch either way - except I do recall that Rhodes published a graph showing "spikes" in sick rates - but these were all AFTER 9th July. I agree that the Company was backed into a corner - Tyler, Chen and Rhodes testified as much.

The main difference is that the AOA and its members were taking LEGAL action and CPA management took ILLEGAL action. It seems, however, that it is the "innocent" victims that have suffered the most.

[cadence]

Not sure how many of you went to this The 49ers Book Launch (http://www.bookazine.com.hk/eshop/events.php) but their entire stock was sold out.

[Cpt. Underpants]

John reads this forum. If he wants to contact you, he will.

[moosp]

Just got the book as a b"day pressie and it is a seriously good read. I was there through it all, but obviously did not know what went on behind the scenes. What did is riveting.

I recommend this to anyone who is a pilot or a member of a union or staff association around the world. It shows the appalling lengths some people in management positions will go to in the hope of advancing their careers, the sheer idiocy of some of them (the GFI is a classic of this) and the morale fibre and dogged determination (and bravery in the case of KAL and PAL) that is required to be a principal officer of a pilots association.

I had always assumed that some of the management that I have worked for over the years were striving for the moral low ground. Captain Warham allows me to see that I was right.

Edited to add; Buzzboz, you miss the point. The AOA did not instigate sickouts. I was there. They did not even condone an individual having a sickout. The stress on going to work was palpable, and I saw several pilots whom in my opinion should not have been flying. The honest ones stayed home, and some became 49'rs.

As a witness to the Papa India argument, I am very sensitive to stress and the ability to fly safely.

[16down2togo]

Dear John Warham,
I just bought your book going through HKG and I have to say: you ruined my 2 next layover rests. I couldn't put it down! What a read, what an eye opener when it comes to modern management, it clearly shows that a lot of things we suspect ,but normally believe they couldn't be true, are indeed going on behind closed doors in those ivory towers.
I had the pleasure to fly with one CPA retiree B.H. mentioned in your book
when all hell broke loose with you guys and he told me lot of the background then. So I was very interested in the whole story, which you filled in now.
Thank you very much sir,
all the best to you and your fellows!
16

[fire wall]

16down, which book shop at the airport did you purchase it from? I tried at the airport some nights back (both sides of immigration) and no stock.

[16down2togo]

Didn't buy it at the airport, bought it in Swindon's in Kowloon.
Best regards,
16

[Interested_Party]

I flew with John many years ago. Old school which meant didn't take SH1t which was a good thing at times but also a steep authority gradient, so he has never been my 'cup-of-tea'. However I am half way though the book and think it is excellent and hard to put down. Well written and having lived through the cr#p of the 90's and into 1999 and 2001+ I find it interesting and acurate as to the facts. I was angry at the time as to how the company treated us and also unhappy with the AOA leadership on occasion but I would like to say well done to John for this book and a good record of stressful times.

[Gobblydegook]

Oh and an update on the KAL FCU....

John doesn't mention that several of the committee went to jail in 2001 and that a handful never got their jobs back. The union members are STILL paying them "subsistence" - until they are 55.

The management succeeded in splitting the union in 2005: ex-military versus Cheju Flying School-trained; the latter are in the FCU.

Nowadays, ex-military guys get their commands 3 years quicker than the Cheju guys.

And if you are a union committee member, you get a special pre-command assessment and automatically get another 2 years added i.e. 14 years as F/O before command course. I agree with you Moosp - bravery, moral fibre and dogged determination.

[nitpicker330]

I just finished the book and WOW what a great read, thanks John.

I'm ashamed I didn't join the CPU, Im ashamed the AOA fooled us into abandoning you guys. MG won't look the same to me anymore:=

All the best for your return to the brotherhood :ok:

NP

[Mr. Bloggs]

Yes Buzz box we heard you the first time, do you have any proof of a sickout? Cathay claimed the same thing; maybe that is why they got charged with defamation?:=:=

As in the KAL union, commands were delayed for being a union member in Cathay Pacific, it’s called being Cat B’d for an undetermined amount of time and for no reason.:(

If NR could have put someone in jail, he would have. He tried to get the 49ers evicted from their home so jail would have been his next move.:yuk:

I wonder what MG got in return for abandoning the 49ers: a base, a work visa, a chalet, a promise……………………..?:hmm:

Nothing like leaving your mark on Aviation History.:ok:

[jed_thrust]

Buzbox,

I'm sure no-one is doubting your memory.






I think what Bloggs was saying is that sometimes it might be better to leave things alone....

[mikerigg]

John, very good work. i really would like to send you a letter or e mail if you would not mind.

[6feetunder]

Here's another chance to get a signed copy of the book. Dymocks HK The 49ers Book Signing (http://www.dymocks.com.hk/contentstatic/authorevents/store_events.asp). It's at the Sai Kung branch on Friday the 20th. Scroll down the page to find the poster.

[FlexibleResponse]

A highly accurate and detailed account of the troubled times of Cathay Pacific from the early 1990s' to 2010.

The lying managers are named and the book includes Court transcripts of those who perjured themselves. Some of these guys are still working with the company.

A must read for all current and past employees of Cathay Pacific, other Swire companies and every other airline.

If you don't get around to reading the book and learn what happened, it will be your loss and may ultimately even cost you your job as well.

[jed_thrust]

Yes, I agree.

Good book, great read, even better summary of what shenanigans here pass as mangment (sic)....

Well done, John.


:ok:

[Basil]

e version seems to be available only in Kindle .azw format and I've a Sony Reader which, AFAIK,doesn't handle that.
Anyone know if it's available in epub/pdf/txt ?

[Air Profit]

...I believe there is one other individual who has a Sony reader.....somewhere in Upper Mongolia.... :}

[Smell the Coffee]

Basil, if you have an iPhone you may be able to download the Kindle app and read it on your mobile.

Failing that just purchase a hard copy from eBay/Amazon etc. I'd recommend it to anyone that works in the industry.

In fact, I'm going to get a hard copy for reference purposes. :}

[Basil]

Air Profit,
Yes, it was foc from son who dumped it to buy Kindle :hmm:
OTOH also acquired his old EOS 20D :ok:

Smell the Coffee,
No i-Phone. Still waiting for one of kids to upgrade - and I'm not even from Aberdeen ;)

[stakeknife]

Just finished the 49'ers book!! As others have said it a must read!!! Well done John&co, shame on the star chamber and swire management!!!!

[Raptor4]

If you like the book, write a review and post it on the Amazon websites at:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1846245877 (US)

and

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1846245877 (UK)


Good reviews mean more people will read it and more sales for John.

:ok:

[Basil]

Presently reached about p120.
One of the difficulties of writing a review is that one would have to be careful about relating similar personal tales without leaving oneself open to legal threats from CX.
Interesting read so far - hope to find something with which to disagree - would be boring otherwise.
Loved the alleged Eddington 'million dollar morons' comment. I can assure you that ain't just a Cathay management attitude.

[Study Bunny]

Just finished reading the book. Wow. To repeat what others have said.

"I couldn't put it down". It was a great read and gave a good view from John's position of events that took place.

I would recommend this to anyone to have a read. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter but I do like the way John wrote it. Especially all the cricketing terms at the end of the book. Too damn funny. I wonder what his 1st innings total would have been?

ps. It gave me a better understanding of the CPU and the AOA history. thanks

[raven11]

A well written account...it stirred up repressed memories of heroes and villains.

Having lived through it....the book bought back bitter feelings and emotions. Feelings people cannot possibly begin to appreciate without having been there to experience it all first hand. It is an incredible story where the villains and heroes existed on both sides...quite often where you least expected to find them (the AOA under MG for example).

This is a story of how not to conduct labour relations, and a case study of how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Well written John W....the bad guys know who they are....the good guys know too....and history will echo through eternity.

[VR-HFX]

John

I have read the book from cover to cover in one sitting. I doff my hat to you as a true Crusader...and those that went the distance. It ain't over til the Fat Lady sings and for what it's worth you will leave HKG (one way or the other) in better shape than when you arrived.

From the moment the bullseye was painted you haven't flinched and for that I commend you. I have always maintained that the pilot group in Cathay devours its own. This goes way back to the days of Paddy and his ilk. It is true testimony to the fact that Muppets can fly.

The Swire response was always to the comms they were getting from the front line. Their inability or unwillingness to get further involved is unfortunate. Their inability to second someone into the fray who knows something about the business is tragic. Someone should endow a new Rhodes Scholarship (HKG version) to teach aspiring managers that intestinal fortitude and honour can relieve distressed sleep patterns.

In my mind, Barley will always have a special place on the gunnery range...that of target. He showed a singular regard for his own posterior and a total disregard for people he regarded as fellow aviators. May his retirement be restless, troubled and full of self-doubt.

Is it any wonder so many of our vintage opted out of the office, the sim and into gardening, dog-walking and much neglected family gratification. No, it is not, and that, in my opinion, is due totally to our colleagues. We can all blame the Swire aristocracy but that is too simplistic.

I wish you and Fitzy the very best with the OAA.

[6feetunder]

The 49ers - The True Story has gone to #1 on the Dymocks best sellers list in Hong Kong. Dymocks.com.hk. More for Booklovers. (http://www.dymocks.com.hk/) Congratulations John.

[12wheeler]

I think the Director of CASA might be interested in writing a book review. Can someone send him a copy? :}

[Basil]

Raptor4, <<write a review>>

Done.

Whilst checking my review I read the following which I thought well worth posting. I have not asked permission but, since the review is already on Amazon, I'm sure that the lady will not object.


By Jane Doe

Firstly, let me congratulate John on a great book that tells a story that needed to be told.
Personally, I would have preferred the book to stick more closely to the title and to therefore have less description of his background and long passion for aviation. I, like probably many others, bought the book for the story of the 49ers, not so much for John Warham's autobiography.
At this point I should declare my interest......I am the wife of a 49er. From the perspective of one on the inside, John's book captures the long battle, both professional and private, that those proud Cathay Pacific pilots faced and indeed continue to confront even 10 years on.

As with any story, there is always more than one side to it. My only true objection is John's depiction of the 18 'hard' men that continued the fight. I think that further information as to why more didn't continue the battle would have made the story more well rounded.

The cost both financially and emotionally was just too much for some to bear. Many chose just to try and move on with their lives. John discusses the tragic deaths that occurred, but what of all the other marriages that ended or very nearly did? The sick realisation that after having worked so hard and for so long that everything you valued and held dear could be taken away from you.

As I have learnt, men are very much defined by what they do for a living. To see my husband try to explain to outsiders time and time again that he was an International Airline Pilot......but no, he was not actually working at the moment, but we are fighting this in court, but no he probably won't ever work with a major carrier again, etc, etc,.....well, it was simply heartbreaking to watch.

There comes a point when a pilot is not just a pilot, but a husband and father as well. In our case, we had very young children and to continue 'the fight' would be to risk our family's future. To step back from the fight was not a decision that I took, but rather a decision that my husband needed to reach on his own. It was a realisation that there were some that needed to pursue the company through the courts for a sense of vindication and for (that much overused phrase) 'closure'. And there were some that had the means, whether financially or emotionally, to rightly call Cathay to account for their actions. These courageous men are in the minority, but are to be applauded for their tenacity. Those that chose not to, for whatever reason, should not be judged for their decision.

I encourage all young pilots with stars in their eyes and dreams of working for a prestigious international airline to read this book.

Well done John, and thank you.

[blind pew]

I've had two very late nights franticly trying to finish the book.
Extremely revealing book for those outside of the industry and a MUST for any budding pilot as is Handling the Big Jets on the technical side.
Sadly there is nothing that I haven't experienced in my career except that John and a substantial number of 49ers had the inflated genitalia to take the bullies on.
He touches on the tips of several icebergs re safety, maintenance, fatigue and health problems in the industry.
The lack of loyalty he mentions I have seen many times with mates screwing each other for a short term gain which invariably explodes in their faces and ALWAYS ends to the eventual detriment of themselves, the company and the passengers.
Can't recommend it highly enough.
Well done.

[Black Cloud]

Well done John and all on an excellent technical summary of what went on. I am also recommending your book as a must read together with the likes of HTBJ for any aspiring airline candidate. What a disgraceful and sadly ongoing chapter in our careers! Good luck for the future.

[moosp]

I like the idea that all aspiring Cathay Pacific pilots should have a reading list that includes both "Handling the big jets" and John's book on the 49s.

After all, the first teaches what is good to know about wide body flying. The second teaches you about what you must know about the airline that you are joining.

There are those who were there who must continue to vilify the perpetrators until they finally leave CX. And perhaps after. Revenge is a dish best tasted cold...

John is most often more conciliatory than those who still harbor revenge strategies against the management structure at that time.

[Dan Winterland]

Just got mine from Relay at the airport - with staff discount. Settling down for a good read!

[ChinaBeached]

John, (and others in the community),

Thank you for producing at great detail the truth. I read the book from cover to cover over a few days - couldn't put it down, mostly out of shocking realisation of these facts.

It is mentioned at what stage is the AOA responsible for future CX pilots. Interesting. I interviewed over 3 years ago having served over 4000 hrs of an apprenticeship in Oz GA. Study for the interview....there's another exercise in candle burning whilst holding down a full time flying job.......because that is what it took to get into CX as SO: experience and knowledge. Now all you need is zero to little experience and a naivety beyond comprehension.

With this C-Scale iCadet scheme, what is the AOA doing about it?

Record profits yet renumeration cut by as much as 60% (over a career) for the new joiners!?

A housing allowance allowance package starting at $10k HKD topping out at $36k HKD When these iCadets become a Capt!! And of course, all non factored with CPI or other market forces for the length of one's career.

Thank you John for helping me know that the 2 occasions I've turned this offer down is the right decision. CX don't want experience, they want cheap labour and the naive dreams of kids with zero hours experience services that grab for money.

When I did interview for CX so long ago now the way to handle the question "What do you think or know of the 49ers" was "I'm sorry, I do not know enough to comment about it". THANK YOU for taking that naive and ignorant answer away.

[Raptor4]

Quote from the Q&A after TCT's speech at the FCC on 17 May 2011:

'Tony there's a book coming out about The 49ers, what do you think about that?'

'I'm sure it'll be a best seller.'

Finally he got something right.

[Captain Dart]

Just bought my copy, appropriately with leftover CX allowance. I commend all crew to do the same, then at least John will get something back from CX!

[twothree]

Hi John, having read your book, I might be able to cover a bit more of the history.

[jonathon68]

I was initially reluctant to read this book, since I thought that reading about those painful times would only rekindle the bitterness and anger which I had felt living through them, as a CX pilot/AOA member. Like many of my Colleagues, I have tried very hard to bury the pain and fury.

I have just (belatedly) bought the book, with the sole purpose of supporting JW's campaign to document what happened. I expected the book to just take up some space on my bookshelves, and gather dust. Incidentally this book is not easy to get hold off, since it seems to sell out pretty quickly at book stores here in Hong Kong!

But I picked up the book and read the first few pages. Then the next few pages, and then the rest of the chapter. Before, I realised it, the best part of my day had been spent on the sofa at home.. reading.

Surprisingly, this book is an easy read, especially for airline pilots/pilots families and also the regular citizens in Hong Kong and overseas who were aware of the dispute through the newspapers/friends, etc.

This is a well written, down to earth practical account of what happened. Most of the information included was already known to me. However, the overall perspective is unique and spot-on.

Well done John. This is an excellent book.

[christn]

The book is currently available at City Super, Harbour City.

[Gnadenburg]

At the airport too. 2 x copies at Relay (in arrivals) with crew discount.

Pilots are incorrigible. There must be a dozen blokes who have asked to borrow my copy and don't want to pay for a copy themselves.

Unreal. Put it on a best sellers list and buy it yourselves!!!!

[fire wall]

Bloody good read John and my congratulations.
Read with interest comments re Gen Sec role, not impressed.

[Barronflyer]

Excellent book - Insightful, Informative and at times entertaining.

John, many thanks. This book is a credit to yourself and to those that lost their jobs.

Very well done

[nudger]

Anyone know if the 49ers received a copy?

[19weeler]

I'm sure TT bought 47 copies, had them signed by Capt. Warham, and fed-ex'd them to the 49er's.

How's the weather down in Aus nudger?

19

[Arfur Dent]

Anyone for cricket?:D

[SMOC]

Sacked pilots denied appeal to top court


Friday, July 29, 2011

The Court of Appeal has dismissed a bid by a group of former Cathay Pacific pilots to take their claims of wrongful dismissal and defamation to the Court of Final Appeal.
The appeal court ruled that the 18 pilots had failed to prove their case was "reasonably arguable as a matter of law," and therefore, not appropriate as questions of general importance.

The decision of Court of Appeal Vice President Frank Stock and justices Susan Kwan Shuk-hing and Johnson Lam Man-hon was made last Friday, but the reasons were handed down yesterday.

The pilots were also ordered to pay costs.

However, their lawyer said they will apply directly to the Court of Final Appeal.

The case goes back more than a decade, when 49 pilots who participated in industrial action in June 2001 were dismissed by the airline.

Last December, the Court of Appeal overturned a High Court ruling that awarded each plaintiff HK$3.3 million for defamation, slashing the amount to HK$700,000.

It also overturned the findings of wrongful dismissal.

Cathay was originally ordered to pay the 18 pilots a total of HK$56.1 million, but this was reduced by the Court of Appeal to HK$11.9 million.

The pilots are appealing this, saying they have suffered huge loss of earnings, and that as professionals they had been accused of being unprofessional. In addition, Cathay has never apologized for the defamation.

The pilots also claim Cathay had bypassed Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures in dismissing them.



Sacked pilots denied appeal to top court - The Standard (http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=113609&sid=33197409&con_type=1)

[crwjerk]

Are you surprised?????

[SMOC]

Nope not at all, par for the course unfortunately. :ugh:

[raven11]

This is soooo wrong!
My heart breaks for these guys.....

[scavengepump]

More evidence of which camp the Hong Kong legal system sits in........so blatant it would be funny if it wasn't for the hell these guys and their families have gone through the past 10 years.
Lessons for us all still here - the courts here in HK are not the answer and a waste of our Union's resources.
At the end of the day it will take us as a membership to get off our behinds and
confront the bully directly......am I dreaming?
Believe me it's coming - we will soon have to man up in a big way!!

[CXtreme]

If you"re going to read one book this year, make it this one.

[Meccano]

I bought the book a month ago - great read so far.
But who is paying the legal costs? Is there a fund? I'd like to contribute.

[boocs]

Amazing book. Highly recommended.
b.

[19weeler]

The Cathay Pilots Union Home Page (http://www.cathaypilotsunion.org/)

[Raptor4]

On Wednesday 26 October, an application was heard by the Court of Final Appeal to have the Court of Appeal's ruling overturned. The pilots were successful and their case will now be heard by the Court of Final Appeal. Not a mention of this in the local press here.

[flyhardmo]

Thanks raptor. I was out of HK and couldn't find any news on the case.
For those of you who haven't read the 49ers book, do yourself a favor and grab a copy be it hard copy or electronic.
Good luck fellas :ok:

[Sqwak7700]

Looks like we might get a sequel to this story. can't wait, I hope it has a happy ending for the pilots. :E

[FlexibleResponse]

Hmmmm....there might be the odd Judge or two starting to squirm as their judgements and reasoning will be subjected to very close scrutiny from a higher Judicial power...?

Good luck to those afflicted by the bastardry of the evil deeds committed those in management of CX at the time.

[Captain Dart]

Some of them are still in management now :suspect:. New and recent joiners take note.