Going to U.S.A

[aviator_88]

hello everyone,

so I'm like most of you fATPL 250 total, love the :mad: out of aviation, 3 months since my graduation and all I received is 14 "not hiring right now" out of 83 applications I've sent and blabla...
I'm planning to go in U.S (cos EU aviationaly sucks) in May to convert my licenses to FAA and to do CFI & CFII and search for a low paid instructor job there and my questions are:

What are the FTOs that offer employment after finishing CFI & CFII courses??
(exclude: pea and aviator.edu)

Anyone has experience with F1 visa??

[hihover]

You may wish to tread very carefully - I think it very unlikely that any company will offer you a job on completion of CFI/CFII training, they will be very happy to train you, but you may not be capable of passing the course and you may not be the kind of person they want in their team, if there are even any vacancies at that time....so many reasons for not offering employment.

Do beware the promise of employment from anyone. There are many US low-time pilots (and high-time) out of work at the moment - such is the industry we are in.

Good luck.

Tam Macklin

[Jerry Lee]

Give also a glance to Susi Air in Indonesia. They have recentrly employed low houred co-pilot for their Cessna Caravan. Better than nothing, isn't it?

[aviator_88]

well that sucks...I did some research and turns out that getting F1 visa is no problem if you attend college program in U.S, then you can arrange with FTO/Flight School that your instructor work is actually Curricular Practical Training (CPT) or Optional Practical Training (OPT)...there are some limitations but I'm not going in details...
now, regarding job situation...they told me that it's possible to get one but only for 6 to 8 months due to visa limitations...
cost involved in whole process is about 23k$ + 6k$ for college...

I guess the bottom line is to do something...anything, because sitting at home and waiting for calls and emails is the last thing i want to do...or p2f but that's just :ugh::ugh::ugh:

what's the situation in Canada??

[Johnny Bekkestad]

If you already have the ratings and hours you will struggle to get into a college as well, F1 VISA will be very difficult to achieve.

[darkroomsource]

Canada? USA? EU? Russia? Asia?
It's all the same.
1. the economy is in the tank, it might be getting better, but right now it's still down.
2. there have been MANY pilots furloughed over the past few years, the world over
3. they're all looking for work.

Is this any different than it has been for the last 40-50 years?
Not really. There have been hiring blips, like in 2006-2007, but they are the exception.

If you can't find work as a CFI in your own country, the odds are there is not CFI work in any other country. (I'm sure there are exceptions, but I can tell you for a fact there almost no CFI jobs open in North America, Central America, or South America)

[INNflight]

I hate being the one stating the OBVIOUS in every single thread around here....

BUT IF YOU CAN'T FIND A FLYING JOB, GO WORK A REGULAR ONE!!!

A regular job will enable you to fly a few times each month, put food on your table and keep you busy.

Sitting around waiting for a cockpit slot will eat into your savings account (if you even have money left) and you'll get CRAZY with all the waiting.

[aviator_88]

@INNflight: "I guess the bottom line is to do something...anything"---refers to flying....don't worry about my job, I work 10hrs a day as :mad: waiter

---so no smart moves left, only thing to do is wait and put your money into savings so one day, when you are tired of waiting you could afford p2f...:ugh::ugh:

what's your master plan to get paid for flying??

[darkroomsource]

USA rocks, especially if we are talking about aviation.
If you look around you might be able to find a position somewhere after you get the CFI. As always you need hard work, networking and a touch of luck (a.k.a. being in the right place at the right time)

Indeed there are billions of unemployed pilots in the USA but the attrition/rotation is also high because the aviation industry is huge.

And yes it's also difficult to get a work permit but it's not impossible.

Cheers / Pablo
Where are you working at Pablo?
When did you start there?

[aviator_88]

the problem is that there are no contacts to be made...what than??

---so...an update based on some FTO replies:

it is POSSIBLE to go to U.S and to do your JAA to FAA CONVERSION + CFI + CFII + "work" but there is catch 22.

To comply with visa regulations/limitations you can use catch 22 and transform term "work" into practical training or intership. It allows you to stay and instruct until you gain experience required for FAA ATPL...what happens after no one knows...you might get required visa and continue to live&work, maybe get a green card on lottery, or maybe marry a pretty girl, or maybe hit a jackpot...or maybe get hit by a truck...or return back home and work at McDonald's front desk selling products resistant to aging...

[corsair]

:rolleyes:I could be a sad little troll like you and tell the same about sitting around in a random airfield in Europe, begging and kissing arses to get some flying. "Not worth the effort".

Well maybe some people has a lot of time in their hands and they can sit around in an airfield with no income every weekend because daddy can pay their bills.
Other guys maybe have to ask for a day off and drive for an hour or two to get to the airfield to deliver their c.v.
Everyone has different circumstances, and maybe a guy that goes there once is making a bigger effort that some other lazy kid that goes to the airfield because he has nothing better to do.
Wow Mr sensitive, you can dish out the inaccurate advice you can't take a hint about how the real world works. You clearly are clueless how things work out there. Because the 'lazy kid' who hangs out at the airfield will work his ass off helping out because he loves aeroplanes and flying. Plus he'll get a job flying while you are still sitting at your PC waiting for an airline to knock down your door.

Yes you have to take time off and drive for hours and spend every spare minute of your time to get the job, ass kissing if neccessary.

Plus quit the ad hominen, (look it up), wrong place for that stuff.

[Halfwayback]

Pablo / corsair

Play the ball - not the player! Aviator88 just wanted some advice.

Strike one - three and your out!

HWB

[corsair]

With respect, I did offer advice in my now deleted post, aimed at aviator 88.

My advice to aviator 88 remains the same. Get out there, visit small operators, help out with refueling and pushing and pulling aircraft. You'll have fun and make contacts. Sometimes you even get a job out of it.

Many a pilot got their start like that. As I sit here I can think of one A330 Captain, a 737 FO, actually several in fact, an ATR72 Captain and me. All who got there first flying job by turning up and making themselves useful at some small operation.

[aviator_88]

"My advice to aviator 88 remains the same. Get out there, visit small operators, help out with refueling and pushing and pulling aircraft. You'll have fun and make contacts. Sometimes you even get a job out of it."

THANKS for the advice man, but I'm not in position to do that. Don't you think any of us would be rather out there helping and doing what ever than working 10 hrs a day job that you hate the most???
some of us are not in position to do that...

[Finals19]

Canada...

Canada used to have an agreement whereby you could obtain a visa to complete a flight training course (i.e. an instructor course and then instruct for up to 24 months (I think)) before returning to your home country.

The issue with this is that you will have to convert your EASA licence at a cost of about C$15K (so abt UK£10K) and then sign up for an instructor course (last time I checked about $7K min) Then you need to find an instructor job. You cannot work in any other capacity (however, your spouse could if you were married). As I said, this may be old information and needs checking.

Canada's aviation structure is quite different to Europe - a lot more smaller operations on piston twins doing Air Taxi or cargo runs to small communities. Its a good place to cut your teeth on raw flying skills. However you can't just walk into a flying job with 250hrs - Canada has a very traditional system of working the ramp for a while (or instructing and gaining experience in that) and then progressing on to an aircraft and working your way up the ladder.

FWIW, Pay2fly is pretty much non existent in Canada :ok:

[corsair]

Understood, Aviator 88, I just throw it out there as a suggestion. I worked long enough in jobs I hated, but I had days off and you would find me hanging out with my pilot friends at the airfield. I wasn't suggesting giving up work, just use your days off to further your dream.

In between hanging around talking flying' I helped set up banners for towing, helped paint aircraft, helped with maintenance, refueling etc. I remember once get chewed out by the boss over something. In the middle of it he said he told me that I would be flying for him one day and he would expect better. He was as good as his word.

By the way 'Daddy' never paid a penny towards my flying despite a recent suggestion. My family were poor. I earned it all myself in a low paid soul destroying job.

[aviator_88]

wooww...i didn't know that about Canada, it sounds great. I'll check with embassy and let you know...
corsair and everyone else thx for advice, I really appreciate it... :ok::ok:,

so if it's up to you guys, the best way to spend 23k$ for fATPL guy...??
1. try U.S (only with guaranteed "intership/pratctical training" in form of instructing)
2. try Canada (take a leap of faith if VISA allows)
3. Africa - Maun (another leap of faith, be there at least 4 months) - much cheaper
4. save for p2f

your opinions...

[darkroomsource]

I don't think I'd go to Maun just because I wanted to build time.
It's not really that kind of an environment.
It's completely different flying, and it's hard work.
You have 10-20 minute flight legs, with 10 minute turnarounds (max) and you have to unload and load the baggage as well as the passengers.
On top of that it's up to 45C, which is 113 F.
Most people talk about diarhea as though it's a common occurance.
The water has all kinds of germs, including Hepatitus A, B, C, D, and E - and there is no vaccine for Hep E.
Malaria is a possibility, although it sounds like it is extremely rare now a days.
1 person in 5 has aids.
Donkeys roam the streets.

(I'm thinking of Ghost Busters, where they're saying "dogs and cat's living together")

So, if you go to Africa, it really should be because you want to fly in Africa, not because you want to find the easiest way to get to the right seat of an airline.

Me, I'm going because I've been thinking about flying in Africa since 1980.
And only just got to the point in my life where I don't have obligations that would prevent me from doing it. It's one of those things I think you either have to do before, or after, you have a family, but not at the same time. Now I know there's at least one person doing it right now that's got a young family, but I'm sure it's stressful for them. So I'm just saying, it's not like going to the USA or Canada.

[MartinCh]

I think Finals19 has it confused/mixed up with the US ex-J1, currently F1 visa.
CIC Canada does not mention any automatic two years as graduate work permit.

As state, the ex-J1 F1 visa, you can't qualify. For the OPT on F1 you mention, playing by the immigration rules in the US, you'd need to do associate degree at least, minimum one academic year, to qualify for the one year OPT on that basis.

Getting back to Canada, Finals19 wasn't completely wrong, but the work permit after studies can only be up to the time spent studying, which isn't very practical for conversion and FI rating. If you already have ICAO rating, Canadian FI rating can be completed in half the time and some minimum ground school waiver is in place as well. More info Studying in Canada: Work permits for students - Working after graduation (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/study/work-postgrad.asp)

Besides, if you fancy Canada, many Europeans, Australians, Kiwis etc may qualify for Working Holiday visa (as known in the UK and OZ) i.e. One year open work permit by CIC names. Same thing. Up to 30 or 35yo incl, depending on country. You should be able to apply for it these days, there are some rules, number caps and application periods etc. Just browse through CIC website from link above or visit your respective country's Canadian embassy/consulate website.

As for Maun, ahem, it's been getting bit more difficult and at this time, plenty of guys hanging round waiting for job openings. Not that you can't try it, but be sure to read everything about it in African sub-section.

[aviator_88]

"It's completely different flying, and it's hard work.
You have 10-20 minute flight legs, with 10 minute turnarounds (max) and you have to unload and load the baggage as well as the passengers.
On top of that it's up to 45C, which is 113 F.
Most people talk about diarhea as though it's a common occurance.
The water has all kinds of germs, including Hepatitus A, B, C, D, and E - and there is no vaccine for Hep E.
Malaria is a possibility, although it sounds like it is extremely rare now a days.
1 person in 5 has aids.
Donkeys roam the streets."

man, you just described my dream. I'm 23 years old and I don't want to spend my entire career flying airliners...I don't mind doing bunch of 10-20 minutes leg a day unloading baggage for some tourists at 45 C for a few years.
Short strips, dust, +45C, high elevation airport, 20 t/0 and lndg.a day, MTOW short field t/o....:O:O:O:O, sounds much better than few vectored ILS app with a/p disengage at 400 AGL.

but let's leave that for Maun thread...

my goal is to fly and to make a living out of it. that's all, no other requests.

[darkroomsource]

You did bring up Maun, and I just wanted to make sure it wasn't being thought of as being the same as the US or Canada.
And if that's the kind of flying you want to do, then by all means, do it.
What are you waiting for?
Don't do like I did, and wait until the time is right. It may never be right. (my flight is booked to Jo'berg)