Maun Season 2010-2011-2012 [Archive]

nyathi

18th Jan 2011, 06:26

I got a job by the way, with air shacawé. :=

Well done on the job, but I think you were hired by ...... AIR SHAKAWE!

The current immigration officer (that is with holding all the permits and applications) will be leaving office at the end of this month and the prediction is that permits will be flowing better after that! :ok:

Some operators are still looking for new crew, although non is in a hurry to hire new crew. I know Sefofane is done hiring for this year, so dont even try at Sefo. I think they took about 14 new pilots this year.

Good luck for everybody still looking for work!

soakingpilot

18th Jan 2011, 07:10

lilflyboy when you taking me up for a flight? are you waiting on those beers that i promised? you have to show up at s.bar to collect em you know.

Felix Saddler

21st Jan 2011, 00:26

Is the Maun hiring season coming to a close now? I'm not qualified as of yet but intend to head out to Maun as and when I am, and when the hiring season begins again. It's doubtful I'll be qualified by the next season either due to financial constraints so i'm asking only to see when the majority of the companies recruit; i've been advised Dec/Jan, which seems to fit what people are saying on here.

FS.

ctgullwing

22nd Jan 2011, 11:22

Hello

Im finishing my cpl this week, was wondering what is
best way getting to Muan from JHB. Bus ticket from JHB
are R250 to Gabs, but I can't find any info on Gabs to Muan.
Any advice??

Thanx

The Ancient Geek

22nd Jan 2011, 12:05

Many years ago now, but FWIW I rented a C182 with an instructor at lanseria and the instructor took it home.

30 years on there is probably a scheduled service by now, taking tourists from Lanseria to Maun in the C210 was a nice little hours building earner in those days as a sideline while still working in a "proper job".

ctgullwing

22nd Jan 2011, 12:27

That would be awesome, but i'm looking
for the cheap way, Air Botswana is R2000
from JHB

darkroomsource

22nd Jan 2011, 14:43

Im finishing my cpl this week, was wondering what is
best way getting to Muan from JHB. Bus ticket from JHB
are R250 to Gabs, but I can't find any info on Gabs to Muan.
Any advice??

This question, and just about every other one you can possibly have, and some you've not thought of, are answered many, many, many, many, many (you get the idea) times on this board.
Search one or all of the following:
Maun, Botswana, Namibia, Windhoek, Swakopmund, Gaberone
There are several thousand posts, across at least two threads per year going back to at least 2002.
If you serious about going to Maun, you will want to read them all before you make the trip.

stevop21

22nd Jan 2011, 17:40

That would be awesome, but i'm looking
for the cheap way, Air Botswana is R2000
from JHB

There is no cheaper way, unless there is a bus or you take a car. It is one of the most expensive routes per km travelled!

ctgullwing

22nd Jan 2011, 19:15

So I guess it will be the bus then. Just have to finish my last atp in JHB before I go. Darkroomsource I was just asking if someone did it recently and had good advice traveling there. Ive flown there and been there, my hour hour building is complete so I just want a economical way to get there. Thanx for the advice anyway, at least you posted. BTW are you going to nam? I was thinking bout going there, know some people.

S

darkroomsource

23rd Jan 2011, 00:04

There are buses.
In fact there are several options.
However it's all documented in the multitude of previous threads on this subject.
There is a bus from Gaberone to Francistown, and a bus from Francistown to Maun. Sometimes there is a bus from Gaberone to Maun. There is a bus from Johannesburg to Windhoek, and a bus from Windhoek to Maun. You can take the train into Zimbabwe and a bus down into Botswana. There are lots of options. But figure on just over USD 100 for the cheapest, 150 for some options, and as much as 500 to fly.

darkroomsource

23rd Jan 2011, 03:50

o I guess it will be the bus then. Just have to finish my last atp in JHB before I go. Darkroomsource I was just asking if someone did it recently and had good advice traveling there. Ive flown there and been there, my hour hour building is complete so I just want a economical way to get there. Thanx for the advice anyway, at least you posted. BTW are you going to nam? I was thinking bout going there, know some people.

Yes Windhoek first, then probably Swakopmund, and maybe over to Maun. Taking intercape, change bus in uppington (I think that's the place), a/c, reclining seats, and looks like it would cost about the same as the bus through francistown, but maybe more than direct gabs-maun bus.
As to someone who's done it recently, there's some in the threads who have, plus there's a guy who's got it on video, he took a combi from jo'berg to gabs, then bus to maun.
My gut is telling me to go to Namibia. Maybe it's because I like German food? Maybe because it's a little cooler? Maybe because it's 210's instead of 206's. Although I hear (actually read) that it's less hours and less pay.
You know they're hiring new CPLs in Madagascar, right? You should check out air madagascar, online, there their phone number and give them a ring, see if they've filled up yet, or if you have a chance.

ctgullwing

23rd Jan 2011, 07:39

Thanks will give them a call. My friends in nam said I should rather go to Bots. His chief pilot recommends Muan coz nobody is getting work permits. Think I may have a change of plan, thinking of selling my car and buying bike and driving up from Cape Town. Would be an awesome adventure and at least I'll have transport there. Got a lot of plans, CPL test is on Wednesday.

S

flyinglion29

23rd Jan 2011, 17:49

I think that somebody should say to all the people thinking about going to Maun....
STOP!!!
I went there 2 weeks ago and there are alrady about 42 guys there.
Some of them waighting for more then 6 month... And maybe 3 or 4 jobs left...

It's depressing to know that nearly all the young guys that you cross on the street, at the bar,in the airport,.. are..like you pilots looking for a job!
And there is absolutly nothing to do in Maun..

It's a waiste of money to come here this year if you don't take it like a holiday and go do some activitises arround the contry..

I didn't get a job there and didn't want to get one there in fact, because I don't see myself living there for 3 or 4 years so I'm now in Namibia looking for a job but I had A HELL of a good holiday there!!:)

ctgullwing

23rd Jan 2011, 21:04

Thats the plan, mini holiday. You have to go and try. Nam is not giving work permits so your chances are better in Muan

Exascot

24th Jan 2011, 08:26

I think that somebody should say to all the people thinking about going to Maun....
STOP!!!

Oh dear, too late, all booked. Will be there first week of March. Planning on popping into Audi and Backpackers to have a look. Any recommendations for a good drinking hole in town for an old(ish) pilot (with wife - not so old!). Happy to buy the beers for the info.

I have the stop watch out for the speed of reply on this one. (09.25 GMT)

ctgullwing

24th Jan 2011, 08:57

Haha if i'm there, ill let you know.

darkroomsource

24th Jan 2011, 16:03

I too am oldish. I too have flight booked. Actually I leave Oregon tomorrow morning. I am planning on Namibia first though, I might be in Maun when you get there. If not, I'll be in Namibia. See you there!

lilflyboy262

25th Jan 2011, 12:56

Flyinglion, that is excatly the reason why they prefer people who have been here for a while. Last thing they want is for someone to get sick of the place halfway through the season and then buggering off somewhere else.
It has happened before, and will continue to happen.

Is it not worth fighting it out over those last 4 spots? I thought a job that gives you around 800hrs a year, plus around 500hrs on a turbine is worth sticking around for?

And its only 2yrs for all the operators other than sefo... not 4.

We just sat down at our company and went through the guys we wanted and didn't want to hire. There will be some happening in the coming days.

Im afriad March will be too late for here, but that will be the perfect time for Namibia.

johnboyy2g

25th Jan 2011, 13:20

I looked at the air madagascar english website, couldn't find anywhere on there were they have hiring listed for anything, no hiring or employment section.

Could you provide the link for where you saw air madagascar hiring?

Thanks

flyinglion29

25th Jan 2011, 13:30

lilflyboy262,

The reason I said 4 years was because I want to spend around that time here in Africa or more... Not because of a contract duration.

I suppose that it's a way of making a selection... But I find it realy strange to let guys doing nothing there for month waiting for a job.:ugh:

subbu73

26th Jan 2011, 05:20

I have been reading over here for quiet sometime. Well, I am really planning to be at Maun by end of March 2011. Will it be a right time for me over there or do you suggest some where else where there could be more chances for freshers? Im really confused.
Currently hold an FAA CPL with only 344hrs of total flight time. In that have 212hrs of Multi Time(BE76). I do not yet have C206 or 208B ratings. Will be going to USA to get endorsed in C206 by middle of Feb 2011.

Though I read about Maun but still getting confused. Your suggestion would be really appreciated.

Felix Saddler

26th Jan 2011, 08:00

Subbu73,

Courtesy of lilflyboy262:

Best time to visit Maun.
The hiring season does vary a little from year to year, but it is safe to say that it generally goes from November to Feburary. It does sometimes start a little early with one or two people being hired, also sometimes goes into March with the odd person being hired.
If you plan to come during this time, then there is a chance you will be hired. The outlook for hiring is always good. There will always be a need each year for people to be hired to replace the guys leaving.
So get on a plane and find out by turning up and asking the companies themselves.
Outside of this time frame, then your chances of being hired drop sharply.

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/433420-maun-botswana-essential-guide.html

subbu73

26th Jan 2011, 13:27

Felix Saddler

Thanks a lot for your advice. I got to plan up things in short time before I reach at Maun . Got to get an endorsement in C206 from "Hillsboro Aviation(USA)". They are charging $379 per hr in C206 and $49 per hr ground instructions for transition into high performance.

Can you please tell me usually how many min hrs in C206 required to qualify for short listing for their requirements at Maun?

Thanks:)

Felix Saddler

27th Jan 2011, 06:22

Unfortunately I cannot help you there. I merely passed on info that was posted on here by lilflyboy262. I've heard 5/6 hours on the 206 will be sufficient, although, i've also heard that it's not always a requirement. Try the link above.

FS.

subbu73

27th Jan 2011, 10:52

Felix
Thanks for the information. I read the Maun Guide. It has now cleared all my doubts.

Are you at Maun or have you been before?

flying free.LEVC

28th Jan 2011, 00:26

It´s great to read what people can do in order to find a job, brave guys:D

How are things over there? any new jobs? has anybody been hired?

Don´t worry about me, I´m not an adversary going there to get a job and stealing your spot...at least this year hehe.

Do they keep without giving job permissions in Namibia?

Take care with the hippos ¡:}

Felix Saddler

29th Jan 2011, 07:47

Subbu73,

Not as of yet.
This guy has though: Botswana Bound. (http://www.nbtvtoday.com/nbtv-abroad/botswana-bound)

FS.

Rico 25

29th Jan 2011, 20:49

I must say that I do have to agree with Flyinglion29-if there are 42 guys around Maun looking for a job there some guys need to consider whether they should be heading out to Botswana at all! Clearly there are too many guys fighting for position and I wish good luck to some of the pilots hanging around Bon that a few of them will find employment but adding another 5 or 10 more people to the town won't help matters. I can't believe some people have been waiting around Maun for over 6 months-when I went there I only had to hang around for one month before I was taken on, however, timing has a lot to do with getting employed in Bots.

I worked as a bush pilot in Maun for almost 2 years although this was a couple of years ago and can confidently say that Maun was the biggest dust bowl on earth-apart from the drinking and socialising after hours there ain't much to do-I also went to Namibia for a holiday after leaving Botswana and had a great time but getting a job in Nam may be a different story.

Those pilots who do get a job will get some fantastic hands on flying and will enjoy a wonderful lifetime experience. You do need to keep your wits about you and no doubt most pilots will have a close call whilst flying around the Okovango Delta-you're flying heavy loads at high temperature off short dirt strips from 3100' elevation and the the 206 is not always the easiest to fly.

I would also recommend that someone start a new thread on flying the Cessna 206 in the Delta. Bush flying is obviously very different to the flying school training that most of us received in getting our licences. Any tips or techniques should obviously not be used if this conflicts with any company SOPs that are laid out.

Exascot

1st Feb 2011, 06:07

Just been watching those clips from ‘Botswana Bound’. I’ll be there in Maun next month so don’t drink all the beer down there. I might even look for a part time job, the night shifts look good. Qualified C206 and Islander; rarely landed with a passenger on board though, they always leapt out at 10,000’, must have been something I said.

flying free.LEVC

1st Feb 2011, 13:33

How many pilots of those 42 do you think will be hired in Maun this season? I guess some of them who are working currently will leave their jobs to get some better in bigger planes so....

what do you think?

cavortingcheetah

2nd Feb 2011, 05:00

(I would also recommend that someone start a new thread on flying the Cessna 206 in the Delta.)

That's a great idea except that those who are starting out don't know how they're going to fly it and those that are finishing up their tours don't know how they flew it and got away with it. So reminiscent sources of information would probably only serve to terrify prospective passengers researching the forum prior to making holiday safari reservations.
POH in this case perhaps justifiably an abbreviation for Passenger Oesophageal Hiatus?

lilflyboy262

2nd Feb 2011, 05:39

~scratches head~ What's a PoH? :}

I don't really know the numbers of people that have been hired this year. But a large amount of them have been from people who have had connections in the company already.

So far I know that:-
Delta Air x1
Moremi Air x1
Safari Air x2
Mack Air x2 (could be worng there!)
Sefofane x6 (?)
Air Shakawe x1

Also rumours that Safari Air may be taking one or two more.

So that makes around 13 people this year. Last year was around 19.
25% chance that you got a job this year. That aint bad.

cavortingcheetah

2nd Feb 2011, 06:03

Ho!

Sounds as though the attrition rate among the wannabees needs to be increased. Perhaps the establishment of a branch of 'Murder Incorporated' in Maun would help things along? Something along the lines of 'Pop a Pilot'?
Perhaps just delivering a truck load of starving lions to the outskirts of Audi camp on a Saturday night would serve the same purpose. You'd need to alert the film crews first though to maximise profits.

morgan32

2nd Feb 2011, 06:12

Wasn't a good year though, exept for SEFOFANE, every employed pilot had either houres or connections. So for the average 22 years old 200 houres wannabe pilot this year I would give a 3% chance ...

Sheers

Griffon_PMI

2nd Feb 2011, 07:07

Long time without taking a look in the forum!

But everything looks the same than the last season. No jobs at all!
This thread is too famous now and the excess of ppl coming to southern africa cant be absorbed by the operators. I cant talk about Maun, but seems to be really disappointing, and Namibia is not better. Here you have some updates:

Sefofane NAM:
Already hired 5 locals, they will call them 1 by 1 monthly to start training, so no point to try till May.

Wings Over Africa:
Already selected 6 guys. Speak some languages rules. They only needed 5, but finally another one was hired as there is always someone kicked out before finishing training.

Scenic Air:
They hired 4? 2 girls, one of them Namibian... Apparently too much pilots, dont know what are they thinking in, but now is only 6 airplanes (after V5SAA wheels up landing) and more than 10 pilots! And last year was poor in flights, around 30hr/month each pilot.

West Air: No pilots needed. Even for the subsidiary.

Bushbird: Already got 1 pilot in training and 1 in standby... for next months.

BayAir: Bought a new 406... or 402? Maybe needing, but they use to ask for +1000.

By the way, insurance companies rules everything here. No way with less than 400TT.

Hope you have better chance in the future!

Harilal

2nd Feb 2011, 08:39

Pilot's Operating Handbook!. looks like the season is also coming to an end or might have ended officially!!!

lilflyboy262

2nd Feb 2011, 11:31

I know what a PoH is :rolleyes:

Did a recount. Sefo hired around 7 ex-pats, then some local motswana.
Mack Air hired more than 2 as well. Just can't remember how many.

So around about the same amount as last year got hired again this year.

A lot of the companies were looking for things that set you apart from others. Degrees, Previous work in Airlines (ground ops) and Instructor ratings.

cavortingcheetah

2nd Feb 2011, 17:12

I have a degree, have worked in ground ops as safety officer, have instructor rating and a Botswana ATPL - a little old that though.
In addition to that I'll fly for free! All I want is lodging, not even board, in a two bedroomed, two bathroomed bungalow in Maun. I'll fly your 737 or your Islander, 210 or 402, B200 etc for Africa on all of which I have ratings, for absolutely zero moolah. So why haven't the companies been beating a path to my doorway. Could it be that I fall foul of the nepotism laws or maybe there are just no jobs available even for the lesser gifted?

canuck.pilot

2nd Feb 2011, 22:15

In addition to that I'll fly for free!

Please don't let your hobby get in the way of the profession of others.

woodi

3rd Feb 2011, 04:57

And that is exactly what the industry needs, another pilot willing and posting threads to 'work for free'..... and that is why we are all pretty much whoring ourselves as taxi drivers these days. :D

soakingpilot

3rd Feb 2011, 07:13

So that makes around 13 people this year. Last year was around 19.
25% chance that you got a job this year. That aint bad.

Sorry but going to have to disagree with you here. Its not a good year nor is it a positive environment when only friends of the company or their employees get hired, so that 25% goes right out the window. Out of all the people who were hired this season I would say that maybe 2 got hired "off the street" with no previous connections and their is speculation that one of them said they would work for free though this is unconfirmed.

The reality to me, as I have the multi/single comm + instrument and 300hrs and generally well liked and have not gotten drunk at a bar and told a CP to go F himself, is that this is just a "big stick" contest and nobody is getting hired on their merits other than ass smooching ability. :yuk:

If I get hired which will most likely not happen it will be and should be because of who I am and the effort and display when on flights with companies. Not being a friend of someone or having a stinky nose.

Wildpilot

3rd Feb 2011, 07:51

Soakingpilot,

Get over it this is aviation it is all about the connections if you don't have them then start making them. I did the Maun thing a while back I knew know one in Maun but chatted to the CP's on the phone before I came over, I was hired in two weeks.

I'm on another flying venture now and guess what I'm using my connections to get my CV in front of the right people before I spend lots of cash to head out.

Connections connections connections get used to it it is how most of GA works, you might not like it but you must get used to it.

all the best

lilflyboy262

3rd Feb 2011, 08:19

If you would like, I will go through and list the names of all the people hired off of the street.

The difference is, you have, what everyone else had that came to maun as well.

Unfortunately, if it was up to me, I know of at least 5 people that I would gladly give work to. And believe me, I have been trying my best to get them in.

cavortingcheetah

3rd Feb 2011, 09:26

Actually if the fulminators had read the post carefully they would have noticed that the quick rent for flying was the provision on a two bedroomed/two bathroomed bungalow in Maun. Almost but not obviously not quite needless to say then that such a reward for flying would never be offered in reality. If it were though it would be rich remuneration of probably a tax avoidable nature in the hands of the pilot. Such a bungalow would enable the employee to bring his entire family with him and with two bathrooms you'd be able to sleep twelve quite comfortably. In fact you'd probably be able to offer a sleeping pad or two to some of the guys at Audi camp and thus keep them off the streets on their days off. Perhaps it takes a certain reduction in wittedness to refer to flying for hire or reward as a hobby. It's such hard work getting to an apogee along that route that such effort could never be a hobby. Those who find that at their momentary summit, the rewards are not sufficient, should perhaps investigate the possibility of a second job. There are always vacancies for gumshoes in the marital minefield which largely encompasses the suburbs of Hyde Park and Sandown in that great African city to the south. At the least this would open up serious possibilities for subserving the pleasures of flitting around aimlessly in aeroplanes in the swamps to the delights of black stocking blackmail whether of a pecuniary or bedroom nature.

ragdragger

3rd Feb 2011, 11:22

When has anyone ever been hired in Maun 'on their merits'? Thats not what the place is about, you get lucky or you don't. Unless you are a total spastic the last thing anyone cares about is how well you fly, and even the spastics seem to get lucky every once in a while.

LH2

3rd Feb 2011, 11:41

Please don't let your hobby get in the way of the profession of others.

And why not if you can afford it? If you happen to be more successful than some other poor sod who actually has to make a living off this, then why the hell not? I thought this is exactly what our beloved capitalism was about: competition for resources and survival of the fittest kind of thing. You can't have it both ways now, can you? :)

Note: I do not necessarily agree with what I wrote above, I'm just trying to point out that this is the logical consequence of other decisions you may well make in seemingly unrelated areas of life so do not be so quick to jump at other people's necks. And yes, I'm having a philosophical day, thank you :ok:

flying free.LEVC

3rd Feb 2011, 13:13

another pilot willing and posting threads to 'work for free'

There are enough diseases and virus in Botswana as malaria or AIDS, don´t spread out another new one from european habits.

:bored::(

soakingpilot

3rd Feb 2011, 13:22

rewrote this 4 times before posting and still come up with your comments as retarded :yuk:

Wildpilot

3rd Feb 2011, 21:06

soakingpilot wrote

"The reality to me, as I have the multi/single comm + instrument and 300hrs and generally well liked and have not gotten drunk at a bar and told a CP to go F himself, is that this is just a "big stick" contest and nobody is getting hired on their merits other than ass smooching ability." http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Getting drunk at the bar is part of the culture as for telling CP's to get F@#$%@ not a good idea. I gave you some advise from someone who has been in your shoes but you told me the comments were retarded.

That is a crap attitude and that is I suspect why you have 300hrs and no job in Maun. As for getting a job on your own merits well at 300hrs you know nothing or as much as the next guy with 300hrs. And if you want a job on your own merits then lets hear what they are, all I can see is a very inexperienced pilot the same as everyone else. Better get used to it in this business mate or you will spend the rest of your life moaning on pprune whilst others overtake you.

So it comes down to would you fit in, do the guys get on with you and does anyone know this guy and is he good to have around. And that is why attitude and contacts are the key. You make contacts on your own merits.

So before you get all frustrated and go typing some load of rubbish in reply which I don't care about. Its not hard to work out who was the American guy in town, infact I'm going to ask some of my mates who are established pilots in Maun what you are like and if you are as well liked as you say. I will let you know

Ragdragger they just don't get it, anyway how is my CV going in your capable hands.

Cheers mate

last post from me on the subject

scarrymike

4th Feb 2011, 03:24

It would be a great help if you could run down the DNA sequence of all the guys/gals who have been hired this season in Maun.

Seriously, I am very curious about the experience level of the pilots hired this year. Do you see a trend for more experience year over year?

Mike:ok:

alwaysflyinverted

4th Feb 2011, 07:37

I think one of my bitter disappointments in my life,would have been not to have flown in the Okavango Delta(Aer Kavango, Northern Air):ok:, being based in Maun. Spending New Year at Phil and Lionel Palmers and throwing flour around the old Duck Inn with Bernadette.
Guys, I was fortunate enough to fly for 4 years in the Delta back in 1989 and had an absolute blast. I sincerely feel that I would have missed out on some of the greatest flying of my Career, had I not gone. Reading this post, it has become obvious that alot more expat pilots are there now, more than the 4 of us in my days there, however if you are thinking of going, my suggestion would be to go!Even if the Okavango does not work out, you have Namibia, Lanseria, Zim, just over the fence, something will happen, but you have to be "Johnnie on the spot". Go get a job at a Safari camp and something will turn up. Just be patient and it will be worth it.
I am now flying the 744 and to this day, it has been the best flying I have done anywhere in the World.
If thinking about it??GO! Great people, great place, just keep it in your pants!You will never forget the experience.:ok:

soakingpilot

4th Feb 2011, 07:55

You will never forget the experience.

yeah Im sure Ill never forget the experience of having wanted to fly for who knows how long, working your but off to pay for your ratings, leaving your home and to come out to Maun to find that some but kisser gets the job instead who decided last year that flying might be fun.

there is a guy down here who hasn't had a job ever ( he is now 29 ) and got a job in 2 days.

what a crock o S**#(

unfortunately I would say that Nam and Zim are basically out of the picture. Though Ill be leaving in 2 days to hit them I wouldn't be surprised to find unattainable hours required and the need to speak German or have an AP license.

Wildpilot

4th Feb 2011, 08:02

You just confirmed what I suspected soakingpilot, when you go to where ever you go next just remember they will know you and your attitude from your postings on pprune. Its a small world and mate you are not helping yourself spouting on here.

Leave the attitude out of your luggage when you pack, aviation is filled with disappointment just take it like you are 29 not 9 years of age.

Tony Tornado

4th Feb 2011, 08:09

Last time I heard the CAA in Zim wants a minimum of 700 hours TT to convert a foreign license.

Insane

4th Feb 2011, 09:14

Converting to Zim licence is a hand stand. They will mess you around and unless you have a residence permit or get a job with a company that has support from a influential party official, you will be fighting a losing battle. They will also drag their heels in releasing exam results....some times up to three months!!

SOLENTA operate in Zim and had to get Zim residents that had SA licences to fly for them.

alwaysflyinverted

4th Feb 2011, 21:31

noone said it would be easy, but it is worthwhile to hang in there. The only thing I could not condone is guys going there and selling their souls and working for nothing!(I think I read in a previous post). That is Bull.... and should never happen. Our industry is full of low lifes like these, who will destroy our livelihoods.
Go and good luck. If you cannot find a job straight away, go work for Mike Gunn or Pete Sandenburg(If still there) they"ll look after you.:D

Wildpilot

4th Feb 2011, 22:21

I just spoke to a couple of mates in maun and they said many of the pilots looking for work are a bunch of tossers and they would only want to have a beer with about ten of them.

Soakingpilot,

You said you were generally well liked, well it turns out that is not accurate, you were described as a C#$K. Now you see what a poor attitude does to your chances, its not about the flying mate.

darkroomsource

21st Feb 2011, 05:24

I'm in Windhoek, talking with a friend who was there, then here, now back in Maun. He says it's saturated, there are still twenty waiting, and it's very unlikely that all 19 of the new hires will washout, especially since half were hired before December.

Griffon_PMI

22nd Feb 2011, 15:23

Just take a look of the "only visa with 2000TT" thread...
:ugh:

subbu73

23rd Feb 2011, 05:02

Hi Darkroomsource:)

I have a query. I have FAA CPL. Im in a processing of getting endorsement in 206. Also applying for Botswana visa too.
In order to qualify for validation in C206 in Botswana, do i need to have SE CPL ?
I mean I have
SE C172 PPL,
ME BE76 PPL, ME BE76 Instruments and ME BE76 CPL.

Flight schools from USA says that I need to do first SE CPL either in 206 or in C172. If I do CPL in C172 then my endorsement would be valid for C206 for compensation and hire rule.

I was thinking if I could just get endorsement in C206 only and not SE CPL, will this be valid at Botswana?

darkroomsource

23rd Feb 2011, 07:59

Windhoek, Namibia.
Dead.
Everyone has already hired, and they can't get visas for any of the new hires. The government wants 2000 TT before they will issue a visa or permit. Pilots are being grounded, and some are being sent home to their home country.
According to one Chief Pilot, "we are full, and if we do get an opening, we have already interviewed three Namibian pilots, and they have already passed the tests, and will be the first ones we hire if we do get an opening, and then we have an additional five more Namibian pilots to interview, then we have to place a full page add in the newspaper, and interview any other Namibians before we can even interview foreigners. And then we have to have foreigners with more than 2000 total time before we can get a visa or work permit for them. When I first came here, it took one or two weeks to get a visa and six months for a permit, it's just not like that any longer."
I quoted this, because it is as close to word for word what I wrote down as notes of what he said as soon as I left his office.

scarrymike

23rd Feb 2011, 15:37

Sorry to hear about all this.

darkroomsource

28th Feb 2011, 12:31

Not quite sure how you're going to fly 206's commercially with a multi-engine commercial license, they only have one engine per plane.

Jason5

22nd Mar 2011, 13:52

Hi All,

I'm discouraged to learn of the visa situation. Earlier I had read a post saying that this is just the government "flexing their muscles" so maybe things will change in the future. My plan was to head to Bots and Nam at the end of 2011.

Supposing things do change, do you think a CFI rating would help or hurt one's chances of getting a job? I know some outfits in Indonesia don't like to hire overqualified individuals and I'm wondering if the same is true in Africa. It's also a big expense that could be put toward my savings for the trip.

Thanks!

270 TT
180 PIC
FAA CPL
IR
ME

flybywire380

20th Apr 2011, 09:14

Morning All,

Does anyone have any info on what the situation down in Bots is at present, hiring-wise and regards the overall economy/demand? I guess the typical hiring season is coming to a close - were most guys/girls who made their way out there successful?

Fly safe - Cheers:ok:!
fbw380

Wildpilot

20th Apr 2011, 09:44

Jason5

It might make a slight difference with some companies if you had some time instructing but generally will not add anything otherwise. And I don't think you will be over qualified at 270TT with or without CFI rating.

Cactus225

20th Apr 2011, 11:43

Man!!!

I had hopes about making it in Africa.

You guys collectivly busted that happy bubble building up in me with all these posts about rejected n lenghy visa procedures, the 2000TT requirements, local being preffered and already interviewed, rigged jobs and the government out to flex its muscles, etc, etc, etc.

60 guys already waiting in the arena? thats a big number.

As if my own country isnt corrupt enough.

What does a man have to do to fly huh?

Why is experience given such darn importance? Arent freshers ever to learn? Wont hard work n slogging asses ever count?

What is the world going to do when all these experienced (read OLD) people whither away huh?

Stuck with 263 hrs TT n absoluely no way of taking that number up north.

Had hoped I would be one of the few bold enough to make way till africa, stick it out for a few months, put a few miles on the car n bump my TT upto some respectable 2000 range.

But NO! that 2000 is the basic requirement now right.:mad:

Thought the situations BAD, but no!! its ALWAYS WORSE huh?

Its such a messed up state of affairs that I cant even concentrate on venting my frustration here. :ugh:

I dont need a 3 month vacation there, I need to fly. Its oxygen.

Anyways, I aint a quitter.

This year or next- I am making my wya there and I will stick it out, and I will FLY.

Keep posting people. Need all the information I can get before I take that leap of faith.

Cactus225

20th Apr 2011, 11:44

Hey,

by the way, how much money would you suggest I need to save for a three month stint over there?

Exascot

20th Apr 2011, 11:59

Cactus225 if you are really serious about flying why don't you look at this web site: Official Career Website of Indian Air Force (http://careerairforce.nic.in/home.html)

Cactus225

21st Apr 2011, 11:11

Exascot,

I don't fit all the criteria for those jobs, so cant.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

soakingpilot

21st Apr 2011, 18:52

how much beer do you drink?

Cactus225

22nd Apr 2011, 09:56

To keep it cheap, I can stay off beer for a couple of months. Depends on how much money is needed to hang in there for three months.

What do you think that number would be like?

soakingpilot

22nd Apr 2011, 13:48

you should be able to live on the cheap for say 400-500 bucks a month. thats including a tent stay at audi camp which i think comes to 110 or so per month ( double check ) and then just money for food at around 10 bucks a day plus transport which is cheap.

but thats pretty much slumming it out if you do that. the thing you will find about southern africa is that none of it is nearly as cheap as you may first think.

keep in mind too that during my 3 month tour in maun I was "housesitting" for about 85% of the time but thats just because I'm the man and people like me :}

ragdragger

25th Apr 2011, 05:16

If you are in TZ you might try Auric. They are desperate for caravan pilots right now. They are looking for experienced pilots but you may be able to work out a deal flying on two crew flights until you have the hours to go online. Auric is based in mwanza but they have on office in dar now and the chief pilot is usually there.

subbu73

20th May 2011, 16:27

Hi SOAKINGPILOT,

Are you currently staying at Maun, I mean hired over there?

I have just got some 206 flight time and seriously looking forward to be at Maun now.

Are the Mack Air recruiting pilots now or they are just accepting the CVs? I called them and they told me to forward my CV but I think they will be least bothered to check mails.

Is it only at the audi camp where you find the cheapest price to stay monthly(How much does it comes to about in terms of US Dollars? Do you know any other place over there?

So sorry to ask you so many questions. I already read the maun's guide but I wanna know whats the exact situation like. Im really running out of budget to keep myself current in flying:ugh:

Exascot

22nd May 2011, 14:48

Is it only at the audi camp where you find the cheapest price to stay monthly

The guys in theatre are in the best position to advise on jobs at the moment but it is very doubtful. We prefer The Old Bridge Backpackers as a low budget option. It is 50 Pula a night but monthly rates and those for pilots is even less. The only problem is the hike to the main road to hitch a lift. They have a web site just Google it.

kush3370

23rd May 2011, 07:28

for which country visa did u applied for and rejected??? i heared if you are from india, then u dont need an advance visa for most of the african countries, they issue it on arrival...arent they????and which companies u are looking for...as far as i know most of them dont need more than 250TT in africa...

Cactus225

23rd May 2011, 09:04

Khush,

Have not applied for any country at all. All that comes later.

Was just doing research and planning to take a trip down there next year. Have to arrange my finances to be able to do that first.

I just have 260 Hrs TT with just the Multi engine license.

Think I would be better off with a Single engine endorsement, and some more money in my pocket before I head off to Africa.

Next year..

kush3370

24th May 2011, 12:46

Dont u hold an indian CPL with single as well as multi engine aircraft endorsed on it? cause as far as FAA goes i aslo have only multi engine CPL but i had enough hours on single engine which allowed me to get DGCA CPL on single and multi both. so its not the same case with you??? and by the way its kush and not khush

Regards...

Exascot

26th May 2011, 13:01

'Maun-based Mack Air has been named the best air charter in Africa at the tourism Indaba held in Durban, South Africa.'

The Ngami Times (http://www.ngamitimes.com/index.html)

A very well deserved congratulations to Stuart, Lara and all the delightful and very professional team at Mack Air. :ok:

And no, I am not after a job - too old and bold :{

pujandamani

14th Jun 2011, 22:04

Hi,
Cactus 225

Is it worth going there and search for a job........?
staying there for 3 months is once again spending huge amount of money?
do you think we people with 250 hours will be able to get a job

even i am planining to go there .....!
if you have more information most appericated

lilflyboy262

15th Jun 2011, 00:29

Total amount you will spend will be about $4000-5000 USD if you look after your money. Thats including airfares.
Thats less than 10hrs in a small twin. Weigh that up for a job for 2 years?
I dont know how many more times I will have to say this.
Yes. a 250hr pilot will have a chance. That is what the majority of the people turning up here have.

Cactus225

15th Jun 2011, 06:19

Majority of people? Really?

I have been through this post enough number of times to know the that more than 100 people turn up there looking for a job every season. Out of these about 10-15 seem to get hired every season. Apparently, the one who stays the longest has the maximum chance of getting a job. ( Guess they wanna see you tough up to the rugged African lifestyle before they trust you for a 3 year contract ). Indians dont get a Visa to stay more than a month. So makes things a bit difficult there. Guess you really have to shine out in the first week itself.

Anyways, 10 out of 100 are better odds than in most of the cases.

The 4000-5000USD spent on that trip would be really worth the experience- ONLY IF YOU MANAGE TO LAND A JOB OVER THERE. I personally dont have money for a pleasure trip.

But we would never find out unless we make it there our self.

Thing is 5000 USD is a lot of money for an Indian. ( Thats more than what an average Indian earns after three years of hard work.) Honestly, even I am not sure about going all the way. ( Expense I would like to avoid without an absolute guarantee for a job. )

So, I really dont know what to say Pujan.
Tough times huh?

But then I guess you already know all this, I have just summed up what I read through this entire thread. I dont know of any Indian working over there though. And there are quite a few who tried.

So, if you are asking me for my perspective about this as an Indian pilot- there you have it.
The temptation for that African adventure and getting back in the air Vs. my anxiety about spending all that money and not achieving anything in return.

If you just want a Pilots perspective of this, there area lot many others who could guide you better.

Some more relevant input from pilots already working there / recruiters would be a lot more beneficial than my words here though.

- perhaps lilflyboy could guide us better.

MichaelPL

15th Jun 2011, 08:22

Well, I am not there, never have, but I guess I'd might chip in my 2 cents.

I've been following the Maun info for over 2 years now. Both here on the forums, and on various blogs (thumbs up Csanad :) ) Back when I was still saving up for my PPL. Took a gap year off Uni, travelled to cold Norway, was with and without a job a couple of times, once for almost 3 months.
But guess what, when you're persistent, things actually happen for you.
I saved up enough to get my PPL. Went back to Poland, got PPL, finished Uni, learned Norwegian, and with a fresh Masters diploma in IT and Econometrics went straight back to Norway to work cleaning hotels. Why? 'Cos I want to pursue my goal.

Now what I seem to notice is that people in the modern, so-called civilised world, with Internet, cellphones, and all that fancy stuff we got are hell-bent on feeling 'secure'. Steady job, steady career, that kind of stuff. Well, for me, all that is but an illusion. You can never know what tomorrow brings. Sure, you can (and should) be prepared for what might happen, but the truth is we can't fortell the future.

My point is - from all the info that's been posted here, and there's been tonnes of it - one thing clearly stands out. There are NO guarantees. At all.
But the last time I checked, work in aviation never had any in the first place, at least not after the last 'crisis'. I am fully aware of that fact right now, still in the early part of my training towards being a commercial pilot. I have no illusions that when I complete it, a job will be handed on a plate to me.

I fully understand where e.g. Cactus is coming from - 5000$ is a lot of money. And you get no guarantees.
But hold on, you already spent at least ten times that on your training, didn't you? Well, you had no guarantees then either...
(btw I guess that by 'majority of people' lilflyboy means that the majority of people who showed up had around 250hrs, not that the majority of people who showed up landed a job)

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, your attitude to the trip is the key factor here. If you DO spend the money to get there, but DON'T manage to land a job, and DON'T enjoy the trip itself, then you just wasted your money. If you do enjoy it, however, the money is not wasted - c'mon, it's Africa, you'd probably never see the place if it was not for that job hunt, while you're there you might just make the most of it, right?
You can not be sure if you will get a job, but you DO have full control on wether you'll enjoy the trip. And for me the decision of go/no go boils down to just that.
I guess it's two more seasons before I get sorted, but I will visit, you can count on that.

Good luck to you all. Make the most of it.

Propellerpilot

15th Jun 2011, 09:06

MichaelPL - you hit the hammer onto the nail - in aviation in general, it is a lot about personal attitude that counts.

One other thing that came to my mind just now, seeing so many Indian guys in this thread. Take no offence here please, but the reality is that you will probably experience a more difficult chance of getting hired, which is actually pretty unjust - you guys are probably considered a bit exotic. Out of all Expats, South Africans (or even South African license holders) are preferred, then come Ozzies and Kiwis, then after a longer stretch the odd American and European candidate here and there. That is just the way it is unfortunately - but correct me if I am wrong.

lilflyboy262

15th Jun 2011, 10:21

@ Cactus. Well then it is pretty simple. It is too hard and too costly for you to come. How about go and pay for a A320 type rating like so many have and go and chase the airlines.

Don't give me the figures for the "average Indian". The Indians that train to become pilots are NOT your average Indian. I have met a large amount of them at my flying school back home, they were paying anywhere between $75,000 to $100,000 for a CPL with a multi IFR.
Whats another $5000 when you are paying that much? Hell most wont even blink when they fork out $20000 for a A320 rating.

Nothing is gaurenteed in aviation until you have signed the contract and sitting at the controls.

Where on earth did you get those figures from? 100 people? My ass! At tops there would have been 60 people. Even then most of them didnt stick around for long. I know of even one person who was here in the morning, passed out his cv's, then left in the afternoon.
Off the top of my head, there was 22 people hired this year. That is more than last year. People that were here that didn't get jobs will laugh at what I have just said. But it is the facts.

Where else on this earth will you have a 1/3 chance of getting your first aviation job?
In Northern Australia I was up against the same number of people for around 10 jobs.
Back in New Zealand I was up against the same number, for 1 job.
A nice figure that we have back home is that 80% of the CPL holders in NZ are NOT flying commercially.

@MichaelPL. I love your attitude. I truely hope that you do get a job somewhere. I know you will. You have the right attitude for it.

@Prop~ A little wrong there. Its just the majority of the people turning up here are from SA. Its used to be mainly Kiwi's here, but they don't really know about this place anymore.
The problem with Indians are the work visas and permits, its just like that in Namibia as well.

Sandy pilot

17th Jun 2011, 16:13

Is it really that Indian's don't get visa there??
Or is it they do not get employed?:rolleyes:

Wyle E Coyote

19th Jun 2011, 01:09

You boys need to pull your knickers up and get your asses over there.

yes, it will cost you money
No, there's no guarantee of a job

If you're that worried about it, then maybe you're better sitting at home typing on pprune, and watching internet porn.

Nothing in life is guaranteed. Going to Maun to look for a job is a far safer bet than spending all your money on a CPL in the first place.

If you can drink a beer and talk about something other than flying.... then you're in with a good shot. I had heard the place was full of Nancys these days though, so your guess is as good as mine.

Cactus225

20th Jun 2011, 08:44

Alright lilflyboy,

Agreed.

Was just referring to the average income in this country. Agreed $5000 aint the biggest amount when one is done spending $60000. But then I had also at the back of my mind what propellerpilot has voiced ( racism is rare these days but not unheard of ). You yourself said that Indians have a problem with the Visas and work permits. And that is where my problem is. Would just be disheartening to convince you to hire me- only to be rejected and sent back home by the government. - Whats the fun in that? :=:=:=

About the rest of my countrymen who dish out $20000 for a A320 / B737 Type Rating---- IDIOTS.
And I Sir, dont chose to be an idiot.
True, I have got some money to spend. But I am gonna spend it wisely. and a trip to Africa would be much wiser than a TR.
Just wanna try all my options in India before I come there.

Everyone has his own unique set of circumstances to deal with.

Fact is- I Just have a Multi Rating on the CPL, no single engine for me - which reduces my chances further. Besides, I have a got a little something going on here in India itself which I think might lead to a job. I have to give it my honest effort before I look towards Africa for a job. Thats all. (Hope this works- I get 2000 hrs or so on a multi turboprop- and then I make it to Africa. Would Love that better than anything else) Prayhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif.

I said in my previous post and I will say it again-
But we would never find out unless we make it there our self.

Mine is just an outsiders opinion to this thing.
You are out there in Africa right now, not me.
Your opinion definitely counts a lot more.

Love it the way you say it-
Nothing is gaurenteed in aviation until you have signed the contract and sitting at the controls.

My time is just yet to comehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

darkroomsource

21st Jun 2011, 23:41

Sounds like you have your mind made up, so you might not even bother reading this, but I must tell you that I did not meet a single pilot who was hired having spent less than 4 weeks in the country, with the exception of some from South Africa who came up for a few days, dropped of CVs, went home and came back a month or so later, or were called in SA.

So, since (and this is not racist, but political) Botswana and Namibia won't give more than 30 days visa to Indian citizens, there aren't many (if any) Indian nationals flying for charter operators in Bots or Nam. It's not that you get here, get hired and then can't get a visa (although that IS a problem for all pilots), but rather that you can't stay long enough for the operators to consider you.

Good luck.

chileno 777

22nd Jun 2011, 15:08

Fact is- I Just have a Multi Rating on the CPL, no single engine for me

think that a low timer without a CPL single should not even consider going to Botws or Nam…

206DOG

22nd Jun 2011, 23:22

Just a question for cactus, I'm confused that you have a multi-engine CPL without a single endorsment?
Surely you would have flown plenty of hours in a single in your initial training? or do they just pop you straight into a multi for your fist solo :ok:

I would recommend a trip to bots in any case, even if you don't get a job straight away its a great experience in a fantastic part of the world.
I left NZ to head to Bots in 2006, spent 3 months there, had a great time, met some great people, travelled across the african continent.... but ended up coming home without a job...
BUT.. kept in contact with the relevant CP's etc and ended up getting a call a couple of months later with a job offer from Maun, and headed back to Bots for 2 and a half years of terrific flying and great experiences.
I also ended up doing a bit of hiring as CP of my company so I can tell you it doesn't really matter what hours or ratings you have, (everyone looking for a job there has a cpl!!) its more about if the pilots like you or not! (ie want to work with you for a couple of years)
So chin up you guys that have spent the time waiting around, it can be well worth it in the end! :cool:
Bags

ps lilflyboy do I know you? i left end of 2008. top posts bro :ok:

lilflyboy262

23rd Jun 2011, 13:44

Nah I got there at the end of 09. Nearly at the end of my "sentence" now ;)
Who did you work for?

Cactus225

25th Jun 2011, 06:57

206DOG,

Thanks for your words there. Really an encouragement.

I flew single for most of the course- 240 hours on a C172/C152 just 25 odd hours on the PA 34. But I gave the FAA CPL Check ride on the multi., A multi rating is preferred in my country so I did just that (regretting it now though).

Just a few more opportunities in my own country which I wanna look into.

Else, Africa it is.

Good advise though, will most definitely follow it.

Thanks a ton.

parker007

3rd Jul 2011, 16:43

hey i am from india and planning to come to maun in november. anyone from india who have been there before can tell me about tha visa .like for how many days do an indian national gets visa?

ctgullwing

4th Jul 2011, 12:04

when you guys going? im going in september.

Felix Saddler

8th Jul 2011, 06:33

I'm looking to head out to Botswana but I'm having difficulties understanding the license requirements. Sefofane have recently announced they require all applying to hold both a CPL and IR - I realize they are but one of a few but it triggered a thought. I'm heading to the states to do my JAA SECPL and hour building and also considering doing the FAA IR whilst out there. Now, other than being able to fly privately IFR will this benefit me commercially out in Africa.

Exascot

8th Jul 2011, 08:27

when you guys going? im going in september.

I am going in November. Prepared to give it 6 months. :ok:

lilflyboy262

8th Jul 2011, 12:56

Felix, please reread what I have already put down here a thousand times before I cave my skull in on the nearest brick wall.

brisdude

8th Jul 2011, 15:01

Why do you think there are dents in the odd mud shack?

parker007

9th Jul 2011, 12:40

hey guys any update on visa thing for the indians?

darkroomsource

9th Jul 2011, 13:14

try the embassy where you live, the will have much better information about visas than you can get here...

cavortingcheetah

9th Jul 2011, 18:03

Last I heard, the visa thing was being run by a bunch of cowboys.

ambasador

9th Jul 2011, 20:46

it might be easier to get the job than to get the work permit!... just a thought:sad:

foxtrot mike

11th Jul 2011, 08:23

There's definately opportunities in Maun for the right kind of pilots, but the Bots DCA and the operators are really getting fed up with the attitude of some of the expat youngsters that come there looking for jobs. They go there full of spunk and eagerness, the operators spend a heap of money training the guys when they take them on by getting their work & residence permits, and then the sh1t starts. Ego's bigger than IQ's, rotten attitudes, and some act like real babies. Some of the operators are simply just tired of teaching these spoilt brats manners, and changing their nappies. Furthermore the Bots DCA is putting a lot of pressure on the operators to employ more locals.

In recent months there has been a number of pilots that joined companies and Maun, and some of them turned out not what they pretended to be, and some of them really did not fly the expat flag very well. One can only but wonder why the rich parents who paid for the training did not teach their kids any manners.

One guy got his licensed withdrawn by the Bots DCA for violating the law, and when he was called to explain himself, he left the country overnight. And the list goes on.

The time will come when the operators there are going to move away from hireing young inexperienced pilots. Some of the spoilt kids simply have no manners, and they are the ones who is messing up for the ones that are really dedicated.

Exascot

11th Jul 2011, 09:20

FM, I am afraid that the series NBTVToday - Botswana Bound (http://www.nbtvtoday.com/nbtv-abroad/botswana-bound) did you guys no favours at all. It did not give a very professional view for visitors or really show prospective pilots what the job is really about. I know that you have got some excellent aviators down there and they get very good training. You have a great number of job hunters to choose from so it is down to the selectors to get it right. Don't put the blame onto whoever you/they selected. You have more time than an airline to assess these people, like months sometimes. I will be down there in Maun for 6 months at the end of the year. I am happy to offer my consultancy services to help in the selection process if any company is interested. Just PM me. I would be happy to do it for just some flying. Or a job :) - a bit over qualified me thinks, old dogs and new tricks and all that :(

flyingscotsman86

11th Jul 2011, 12:51

Foxtrot Mike, could you expand a bit on some of the specific problems that operators have been having with their expat pilots please? What have the been doing/not doing and what have they been pretending to be?

Exascot

11th Jul 2011, 14:43

Actually FM could I go one further than FSM and be more positive.

I presume that you are involved with recruiting or are a senior pilot down there. With respect, please list the qualities (not qualifications) that you are looking for in recruiting a pilot. This may help people decide if it is worth their while going down there or at least concentrate the minds of those on the limits of your required standards. If you do not have a 'check list' already composed this may be half your problem.

cavortingcheetah

11th Jul 2011, 15:02

It might be more amusing to have a specific list of what they're not looking for?

Exascot

11th Jul 2011, 15:10

OK we can have two lists. One the positive one and the other the amusing :O Current incumbents may wish to compile the latter :rolleyes:

cavortingcheetah

11th Jul 2011, 15:45

Since all swamp operations are single crew you don't want a pilot who thinks that CRM is anything other than having clean finger nails.
Since most clients are genteel folk you don't want a pilot possessed of the sort of brash humor evidenced on occasion by so many of our Antipodean comrades.
Since the aircraft are small and hot and steamy you don't want pilots who eat anything other than a bland western type diet.
Since ditto the above you don't want pilots who think people enjoy seeing their knees and toe nails.
Since age breeds respect amongst the middle classes you don't want young pilots.
So what does that boil down to on a list of desirable qualities? A reasonably mature pilot, used to operating on his own who treats his passengers with a degree of respect and keeps his personal toilet and hygiene to the highest standards. Combine that with a Botswana ATPL, Botswana or South African citizenship and a reasonable amount of single crew bush experience at the upper end of the client market and that might be a starter profile.
Now what don't you want? For that analysis you just have to read back away through the relevant threads and see how some have taken on board some of the excellent advice, strangely constantly disregarded or ignored , which has previously been posted by a few good men.

lilflyboy262

11th Jul 2011, 16:53

Foxtrot mike, I wrote a huge reply to your post but after accidently hitting the wrong key combo, ended up wiping it all.
Long story short.

I presume your info is old or you are no longer in the loop. The Botswana aviation authority is no longer called the DCA and hasn't been for some time. It is known as the Civil Aviation Authority of Botswana, or CAAB for short.

No pilots have had their licences pulled since I have been here.

Two pilot's have left without notice due to being overworked (over flying flight hours) and nothing being done to rectify the situation. Neither of them were flying in Botswana anymore and were based in Zambia. A third left after serving noticed and went to another company.

Another pilot left after a medical issue with his eardrum and needed treatment in SA. He then decided to not come back.

These are the only resignations in recent months with the exception of the guys finishing their contracts.

With the exception of one or two guys, the majority of the bunch here are professional and safe pilots. And I have not heard of any of the operators having problems with fresh young pilots nor are looking to change the way they are hiring.

You were correct on the pressure to hire motswana pilots, but this situation will soon change as the government is no longer funding their training.

@CC, It sounds like you are trying to shine a light on yourself... Are you trying for a job in Maun?...

cavortingcheetah

11th Jul 2011, 17:16

A subtle and intuitive interpretation of an almost impossible situation.

foxtrot mike

12th Jul 2011, 10:12

No pilots have had their licences pulled since I have been here.

Really??? How long have you been there, gainfully employed as a pilot?

He then decided to not come back. Why? Do you know why?

@CC, It sounds like you are trying to shine a light on yourself... Are you trying for a job in Maun?...

Ja right Lil Fly Boy! CC is a retired airline captain with more than 30 000 hours the last time I checked. He has extensive, and I mean EXTENSIVE experience of flying in Africa and the rest of the world, and is an extremely qualified and learned man. Wrote Manuals and SOP for his airline. If he would come out of retirement and come to Maun to manage any operator, half of the rich, spoilt brats there that have no respect for the elder, their companies the airplanes or themselves, would be without a job.

Lots of freshly trained pilots come to Maun looking for a job. Some are good, and some are bad. Some are decent, and some are not, and some have egos bigger than their IQ's. You cant teach them anything, and neither are they prepared to learn. By their actions, they know it all.

After hours behaviour says a lot about the individual. I have seen young pilots floating around the Maun bars at night, pissed out of their minds. I've even witnessed the odd fight. And these are the guys that one's got to entrust with an airplane worth a couple of hundred or million Pula.

Then there's the discipline. What possesses a pilot to divert from the rules and regulations? Why beat up a hunting party? Why do a low level shoot up over a river and nearly flying into wires? Why pull the ring out of the aircraft when you're frustrated and hungover?

There's a lot of things that happen in Maun after hours that the pilots think the owners and operators don't know about, but being the small community that it is, in invariably surfaces.

It's such a pity that there is always nappy wearers that's got to be taught manners their parents never taught them, and it's those ones that normally screw it up for the really good ones.

But then again, it's extremely difficult to argue with children.

brisdude

12th Jul 2011, 13:29

Very valid, though I have seen very capable, experienced and respected pilots pissed out of their minds wandering through bars and "lessor respected establishments" but that says nothing of their flying or influenced how that person flys to their peers or boss.

I'm sure an operator doesn't care what goes down a pilots mouth at night (provided he can do his job safely and capably) but more what comes out of it...

Personality does play a huge role, the ability to have a beer and not talk about how your company should be run is taken seriously.

Otherwise I feel have a beer with some great people in a great place and enjoy yourself. Just don't bring your work to a bar.

Exascot

12th Jul 2011, 13:41

I have seen very capable, experienced and respected pilots pissed out of their minds wandering through bars and "lessor respected establishments"

Obviously we have never met. I do not qualify for most of these adjectives :ooh:

brisdude

12th Jul 2011, 13:59

Neither! As I have said, just seen them! Though my vision could have been off.

Exascot

12th Jul 2011, 15:00

Though my vision could have been off.

Perhaps we have met then but I was looking through my glasses :eek:

http://www.beersteinsonline.net/wp-content/uploads/15_5_orig.jpg

lilflyboy262

12th Jul 2011, 17:06

I've been here for nearly 2 years. Yes I know that isn't a long time, but it is long enough to know whats going on here.
I'm not going to defend the guys that go out getting boozed. Its not my cup of tea, I'm over it. But I do know that there is no where near as many of these guys as in previous years.

As for the guy who didn't come back. He was never happy here. I lived with the guy for over a year. Its the reason why he did not push being trained on the caravan as he did not want to be bonded. Perhaps there is more to this story? But if it is, it has been kept unbelievably quiet. As you said, its a small community.

My poke at CC was a compliment hidden in sarcasim. I'm quite sure he picked that up.

I have not heard of anyone beating up hunting parties. A low level flight nearly hitting wires? If you saw this, did you report it? Instead of complaining, do something about it!
All of the operators in town now are concerned about their reputations.

Stu from Mack Air does not take any cowboy stunts and will fire anyone caught doing stupid stuff.
Example, a senior and hugely popular pilot retracted flap early on a caravan, same time got caught by a gust and nearly collect a game car. Was given marching orders much to the dismay of the whole pilot community.

Derek or Fred from Safari Air are in the same boat as Mack Air

Wilderness is concentrating on making themselves out to be a major airline. They would not take any crap like this. When a ex pilot of theirs taxiied a plane into another parked plane, he was sent to Jo'burg for psych evaluation.

Moremi Air's reputation has taken a beating with 5 accidents in a short space of time, 3 in very recent history. Nothing of the sort will be tolerated.

Kavango Air forced a pilot to resign over the incident that I talked about earlier.

I do not know enough about Delta, Air Shakawe or Major Blue operations, but I'm pretty sure that they are the same.

I appreciate that you are sick of the bulls:mad: and the stunts that a small few of the guys that are here pull.
You know how many pilots are in town, and if you take a close look, it will be the same few people pulling the same old stunts.

cavortingcheetah

12th Jul 2011, 18:26

The poke was entirely accurate which is why I said,
A subtle and intuitive interpretation of an almost impossible situation.
In all honesty I've also got to set the record straight and while being most appreciative of the compliments, for which many thanks, just say modestly that my level of experience was somewhat over rated.

ragdragger

12th Jul 2011, 20:42

Spare me the blubbering about how tough the Maun charter companies have it. A few companies have a lot more trouble with pilots catching the midnight express than the rest, and with good reason.

If you dont want fighting and drinking and poor decision making then maybe it's not a good idea to hire almost exclusively men in their early to mid twenties who have never held a job before, especially in a town with 0 available women and too many bars.

These operators want cheap migrant labor. Hire inexperienced guys, train them as little as you can get away with, and move them out the door in a year or two before they start getting uppity about pay. They aren't interested in offering any kind of incentive to stick around and become part of the community so why should any of the pilots care about what that community thinks about them?

Solid Rust Twotter

13th Jul 2011, 07:05

Ethics and professionalism. In other words doing it right whether the boss is an arsehat or not.

foxtrot mike

13th Jul 2011, 07:08

As for the guy who didn't come back. He was never happy here.

So why did he take the job? Why not be honest and upfront and say "Hey guys, this place is not for me! Hire someone else and give them an opportunity." Was it a case of unhappy environment, parental pressure, or is the guy actually a closet ballerina? You tell me! You lived with him for a year.

A low level flight nearly hitting wires? If you saw this, did you report it? Instead of complaining, do something about it!

Not only low flying, a stall turn that went wrong, almost contact with a wire, and almost a splash in the river. It was reported with substantial evidence. The Bots CAA suspended the pilot's license and the pilot left town the same night without a word. This happened in March last year.

If you've been there for 2 years, surely you should know about this?

I have not heard of anyone beating up hunting parties.

Not once, not twice, but 3 times. Written reports was made by very credible people to the Operator & the Bots CAA, and the matter is under investigation.

I can mention a heap of incidents that I know of. I can also post pages of poor airmanship displayed by some of the "so called heavies", and I can name & shame them, but will it really help? Somehow I don't think so. Like I said, it's very difficult to argue with children.:*

lilflyboy262

13th Jul 2011, 14:43

No your right FM, We are all a bunch of childish :mad:wits, who can't get jobs elsewhere, are all unprofessional, all are riding our fathers coat tails, are all pissheads, and should give up flying right now.

The incident in March that you are talking about, the pilot did not leave town overnight. He was forced to resign by his boss after 2 companies refused to send charter work to them if they did not get rid of said pilot.
Stall turn? Thats a new development to that story. I know he was low flying, he flew past my house that day.
Why would you stick around in this town if there was no work for you? What else is there to do if you are unemployed?
I presume since you know so much about this story that you were one of the three in the boat that reported him? Perhaps the same guy that threw his toys out of the cot after a company reshuffle and also left "overnight"?

He did not want to resign earlier because of parental pressure. His father had got him the job, and rather than disappoint his father, he was going to stick it out. He wasn't upset with the job. He hated the town, the lifestyle, and what it did to him. He still worked for the company for nearly 18 months. Is that no a honourable thing to do? Honour your agreement rather than backing out in the middle of the busy season?

Does this previous paragraph make you happy? Does it make you think that you have proved your point and you are sitting at the computer with a smug smile of triumph on your face? Congratulations, your broad generalisations of the guys that fly here have managed to point to one or two of the 60 odd pilots that are currently in town.

3 times?! A whole 3 times that some moron has buzzed hunting parties?! But we aren't all unprofessional pilots? All 60+ of us? If that is the case, shouldnt there be a hell of a lot more complaints like this considering there is how many aircraft movements pilot by unprofessional young'uns in this town each day?

Again, I point to my first statement in this post.

nbv4

13th Jul 2011, 18:43

I spent 2 months in maun trying to get a job back in 2009. Back then it was pretty much the same as how it is now. A large number of pilots hanging around for a small number of available jobs. From early January 2009 to the end of February 2009, not a single person (that I know of) was hired. Actually if I remember correctly, some companies had to let people go during that timeframe due to low volume of business.

All though I remember a few people telling me of the days in 2006 when pretty much all you had to do was show up with a pilot license and you had a job. Apparently back then the job/pilot ratio was much more favoritable towards the pilot.

Anyways, if I ever go back (which I really want to do someday), I'm definitely only doing so when the odds are a little better.

mppgf

13th Jul 2011, 18:52

I just flew a five and a half hour sector in an A320, basically just bored to tears. :mad: I wish I was able to do what you guy's are doing again.:sad:

206DOG

13th Jul 2011, 20:35

NBV4,

Think its just that prospective pilots tend to hang around alot longer these days. I was there looking for a job in Jan 2006, there were 20+ pilots all looking for jobs at the same time, some came, some went, some got jobs! think folks generally only stayed for a month or so back then though.

lilflyboy

Don't think we ever met bro, i left Maun circa dec 2008. worked for Moremi Air, when I was there it was a top company, went a bit downhill a bit with a few dings here and there, one just before i left and then the other more recent ones.

Having said that, in 2 and a bit years I was in Maun, I think every company except Kavango and Safari had at least one fairly serious prang, I think that just comes with the territory, there is such a massive amount of daily flights (At least 100+ sectors per day across all the companies!) into some fairly average strips, then sooner or later someone is bound to mow over a stray antelope on landing or slide off a greasy strip or something. Doesn't mean the pilots are all cowboys, its just a reality of the conditions that they fly in, 6 days a week, 5 or so hours a day.
So even though training it pretty extensive, (at least 50hours in the delta initially, plus 20 odd hours on any new type, and 50 hours on type for Van/Islander.) The reality is that the pilots that generally start have a Fresh CPL, most havn't seen a strip thats not tarseal, and tho most of them probably think they are ace's, someone is bound to f*#k up every now and then.
The majority of the blokes and gals that decide to travel to distant botswana and land a job however, are good buggers, and get through while hopefully learning a thing or two!

Wildpilot

14th Jul 2011, 00:00

I agree with 206dog, To be honest if you have been to Maun and worked you don't need to keep arguing with everyone's dumb arse opinion, let them think what they like.

When I was there the pilots were good and there was one incident that I recall and it was the C206 A2-DOG.

Some of you need to relax a bit and stop going tit for tat, Maun was a place where that sort of BS was left behind at home and the pilots who came and made it were a differant breed.

brisdude

14th Jul 2011, 13:21

Lilflyboy is I think the best authority on this subject for current times (I doubt we haven't met, it's been a bit since I was there).

Personality does play a part but like anything a mixture of personalities will lead to a disagreement etc but I think has little to do with the professionalism of most pilots.

I am sure we have met/flown with people who would happily dance with their pants off to "twisting by the pool" on a table in a bar but when it comes to work switch their minds onto the job and focus on a safe op that makes their boss money.

Then you get the other end of the spectrum - over qualified guys of all ages who might be teetotalers but are a space cadet once then have a 182 and 4 sectors for the day.

An example of both extremes and by no way the norm of course.

I heard a story about a guy who worked oil rigs off Angola and he was saying there was a night when a good ole' southern boy was punching it out with big guy from Leeds while a Canadian was leaning on his shoulder and telling him how he paints his miniature Napoleon army soldiers for war games....

....And they're making dollars for their boss.

Exascot

17th Jul 2011, 06:20

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32684975/Pre%20Flight.jpg

Exascot

20th Jul 2011, 14:18

The Ngami Times (http://www.ngamitimes.com/index.html)

Very well written by 'name and address supplied'. Guess you guys down there know who it is.

‘Blatantly biased and flawed' report on pilot training'

lilflyboy262

22nd Jul 2011, 16:37

Unfortuately things will be changing in Maun in the near future and I believe it will be a end to low houred pilots being able to come and look for work. Perhaps we might be able to squeeze another year or two in.
I throughly recommend giving the operators a phone call before coming over.

Rico 25

22nd Jul 2011, 21:33

Lilflyboy- can you elaborate on the possible changes which may be due in the near future?

MichaelPL

23rd Jul 2011, 11:01

Hi lilflyboy.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the changes you fear will come? And what are the grounds for you to believe they will?

I'm really counting on the Maun opportunity to kickstart my flying. But I do need to gather the means necessaty to complete my training first. So, if all goes well, I could be coming nov/dec 2012. Do you think I might still make it before the end of low-hour era is there?

Also on a side note - if low-hour guys won't be flying the planes, who will?

lilflyboy262

23rd Jul 2011, 14:59

They are looking at bringing in the following restrictions on Ex-pat pilots.
A minimum of 1500hrs.
A grade two instructors rating.
Relevant experience to become either a Operations Manager, Chief Pilot, Safety Officer or Training Captain.

They are going to be filling the gaps with local pilots that are currently being trained.

There will be a shortage of pilots still but I believe that it will become an operation where you are contacted by the company after sending through your CV's. Perhaps that will be a blessing in disguise for a lot of people?

The speed that things move in Africa is not a fast pace. It will take a while for things to change so there will be a year or two before this is put into place.

There has been meetings between the charter companies and the governing bodies. So we know that the changes are coming.

I will be able to tell you guys more around the middle of the week. I wouldnt go cancelling your plans to come here just yet. Just be prepared for a few changes and the amount of positions available might be a lot less.
Besides, there is still the rest of Africa that you can try while you are here!

cavortingcheetah

23rd Jul 2011, 15:07

(if low-hour guys won't be flying the planes, who will?)

Why sonny boy, that's going to be us!
We're the pilot aviators who know every nook and cranny of the delta the way it was thirty years ago when all the Cessnas were painted a cute baby blue and an engine failure up there was certain death. Those were the days when we used to fly the Boss in on his G111. We've got zillions of hours between us, no new stories to invent, no axes to grind or points to score. We aren't going anywhere except into the dust and once we're in up there we'll never leave. We'll fly for nearly zero because we've all got huge pensions, accumulated after years of airline flying and we really do want to keep our tax footprint hush hush. We don't ever want leave the swamps and we will fly sick, drunk or hung over, will cover for each other and will spit tobacco juice into the face of any fresh faced chief pilot who tells us how to run the Ops Manual We never get sick, although we might die from time to time, but we've always arranged cover with a mate. The passengers love us because we're reliable old hornets who instill confidence in even the most abashed of virgin fliers. Bechuanaland, last outpost of the good life in Africa, here we come! We're the Old Timers and boy! Can we fly!

MichaelPL

23rd Jul 2011, 15:36

@lilflyboy:
Thanks for the info. Appreciate if you keep us posted as the situation develops.
But then again, I recall reading not so long ago, that the local pilot training programme was scrapped?
EDIT: as in here: http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/438554-maun-season-2010-2011-a-7.html#post6565054

@cc:
Love your posts, keep 'em coming. Nice to find something like this inbetween all of the 'will I get a job if I go?'. This one is actually better than some of the 'you know you are in Africa' thread. Cheers :)

Solid Rust Twotter

23rd Jul 2011, 15:36

Yup, hook the ol' pacemaker up to a 3-phase power supply and there's nothing we can't do...:}

The Ancient Geek

23rd Jul 2011, 16:33

(if low-hour guys won't be flying the planes, who will?)
Why sonny boy, that's going to be us!

If they bring back some of the AN-2s I could be interested .....:rolleyes:

lilflyboy262

23rd Jul 2011, 19:45

There is one parked up at maintainence....

Solid Rust Twotter

23rd Jul 2011, 20:12

200 litres an hour at 90 kts down in the weeds? Sod that for a game of soldiers.

The Ancient Geek

23rd Jul 2011, 21:18

Yebbut 200 l/h is not so bad when you can carry 12 paying pax.
And the damn things are almost indestructible.
100 knots / 120 mph cruising is fast enough for short hops in the swamps.

Flying backwards into a 30 knot headwind is quite a party trick :D.

lilflyboy262

25th Jul 2011, 07:20

And isnt it something like 12L per hour of oil as well?

There was a german one that came in here sometime last year. That was a pretty cool sight to see. That and when the DC-3 comes past on its southern africa trips.

Solid Rust Twotter

25th Jul 2011, 07:48

100 knots / 120 mph cruising is fast enough...

Dream on. You can probably block around 80-85kts. If you can get it up to 100kts TAS in level flight you'll be burning more than 200l/hr and the fabric isn't going to last long in the swamps with hyaenas around. They're cheap enough. If they were a good idea someone would have a fleet of them out there. Manual also specifies two crew (although not necessarily two pilots - one can be an engineer). Not cheap and she uses pneumatics which can be a bit of a bother at times. Taxiing is an art with differential braking reliant on rudder bar position and brakes applied with a huge bicycle type hand grip on the wheel. Sounds like a steam train pulling out of the station when you taxi in a crosswind. As Flyboy says, oil consumption is a bit eye watering as well, around half a gallon an hour if the engine is in good nick.

MichaelPL

25th Jul 2011, 08:56

Now that's an interesting addition to the topic. We got two AN2s back in my flying club, used as skydiver lifts.
It could be possible for me to include that in the line of my training. A bit more expensive though, but I could get some time in them (I dunno if one uses the term 'rating' for this aircraft, anyway could get to the point of having some PIC hours in the logbook on one of them).

Do you think it could benefit the odds of scoring a job in Bots/Nam? Or is it better to spend the cash on some 206 time instead?
(If I spare enough cash, I'll fly 'em just for the heck of it anyway, but I don't really hope for having excessive amounts of money at any point of my flying training. Or at any point of the part that comes after that ;) )

lilflyboy262

25th Jul 2011, 09:43

Well the AN2 hasnt moved in around 4 years I beleive. Could be longer.
I think the money would be better speant on a 206 :ok:
Although, If given an opportunity, I would love to be able to log some time on random old planes like that.:ooh:

pujandamani

25th Jul 2011, 20:20

I would like to know the jobs opening this season in maun.
I am planing to come in by end of sept or in oct ...so could you please suggest me is it the right time to come to maun . how is the job senario going to be be in this season do you have any idea ......? as you have mentioned earlier to contact the operator before coming there what do you want us to confirm with them and to all the operators in maun......?

Your information is very helpful in gathering details for coming to maun.

Waiting for your reply ..........

lilflyboy262

26th Jul 2011, 09:06

What to confirm?
...
Next you will be asking me to ask the ops manager or chief pilot for you!

Take the time to read these forums. Everything you need to know is on here!

Solid Rust Twotter

26th Jul 2011, 09:35

Aww, c'mon Flyboy...

What happened to the Brotherhood Of The Sky, that merry band of aviators gazing into the sunset with a steely glare? Aren't they meant to bond or something before going back to where the mirrors are so they can admire themselves in their RayBans, big watches and leather jackets in 43 deg C heat. Swapping tales of derring do in the pub after a hard day's slipping the surly bonds whilst stroking their RAF handlebar moustaches then heading home to an orgy of onanism as they fondle their epaulettes.

Or is that stockbrokers...?:}

propcowboy

28th Jul 2011, 22:26

C'mon Rust, you've had a bit too much of that right stuff stuff...:}

Felix Saddler

28th Jul 2011, 23:19

C'mon Cowboy, stop yanking your propshaft...

cavortingcheetah

29th Jul 2011, 06:43

lilflyboy262 is absolutely right and the curry needs to be stirred. There are far too many slap dash posts about which indicate nothing more than a penile fascination with magic wands. It's high time any new poster was required to start his communication with a disclaimer acknowledging that he'd read and understood the Founding Father's hoary words of advice. I don't at all subscribe to the attitude that says because I had to do it the hard way then so should you but a little initiative, maturity and homework impress more than a wooden spoon banged in childish fashion upon the side of an empty tin bowl.

darkroomsource

29th Jul 2011, 12:52

So maybe there should be another thread of Frequently RE-Asked Questions, like

#1. Why must I "rock up" to the operators to get hired?
Answer - Because that's the way it works, PERIOD.

#2. I'm from India, how long can I get a visa for, how long do I need to stay in Bots/Nam, why can't I get a longer visa, why won't they hire me in less than 30 days, why aren't there more Indian nationals flying in Bots/Nam, why? why? why?
Answer - Indians get 30 days on their visas in Botswana and/or Namibia, that's all. It takes longer than that to get hired in either of those places. That's the way it is... if you have issues, contact External Affairs Minister Shri S.M. Krishna, the web site is MEA - Ministry of External Affairs (http://meaindia.nic.in/) - WE CAN'T FIX IT FOR YOU ON THIS FORUM

#3. What are my odds of getting hired?
Answer - zero if you don't come, better than that if you do, better still if you stay MORE THAN 4 weeks.
Answer number 2 - really poor if you have the attitude that someone should hand you a job.

Sandy pilot

7th Aug 2011, 01:17

What is the current situation?
Has the hiring started?????

FLy A

7th Aug 2011, 17:06

To the Indians on this topic; Greetings from a fellow citizen!
I took the pain of travelling to the Botswanian Consulate in Delhi (I'm from BLR) with the hope of getting myself a visa valid for more than 30 days with all the necessary paperwork (hotel bookings, bank statements and so on) only to be politely told by the lady in front-desk that I for sure will be wasting my money even applying for the visa!!

Why such treatment to Indians???? Good Question!! but do I know the answer?? Nope! lol... But I'm sure it must have been really dumb stand that the MEA of our beloved country took some years back that puts us Indians in the non-exempted category!! FYI, even Pakistanis are exempted!!

Well then what do we unfortunate souls who spent our parents' entire life savings into becoming an pilot do??? Kill time, wait for all the influential connected chaps to get employed, wait for all those mind boggling a/c orders by the airlines here to materialize and until then keep a low profile avoiding those nagging buds who have completed their studies :ugh: and aaahhh...dreamm!! about every single minute you spent in a C152 and its likes working towards to your CPL!!!

But for now, Just don't give up!!

P.S: Mods, I do know its not actually about Bots/Nam so do away with this post if you feel so.
To the Grammar conscious, forgive me for any errors.

Thanks.

flyingscotsman86

6th Sep 2011, 19:27

lilflyboy262, back in July you posted:
They are looking at bringing in the following restrictions on Ex-pat pilots.
A minimum of 1500hrs.
A grade two instructors rating.
Relevant experience to become either a Operations Manager, Chief Pilot, Safety Officer or Training Captain....

...There has been meetings between the charter companies and the governing bodies. So we know that the changes are coming.

I will be able to tell you guys more around the middle of the week. I wouldnt go cancelling your plans to come here just yet. Just be prepared for a few changes and the amount of positions available might be a lot less....

Can you (or anyone else) update us on what the latest is on this please? I'm planning on heading to Maun around December, so it would be good to know if I still stand a chance of employment there.

lilflyboy262

6th Sep 2011, 20:39

They are looking at bringing in the following restrictions on Ex-pat pilots.
A minimum of 1500hrs.
A grade two instructors rating.
Relevant experience to become either a Operations Manager, Chief Pilot, Safety Officer or Training Captain....

...There has been meetings between the charter companies and the governing bodies. So we know that the changes are coming.

I will be able to tell you guys more around the middle of the week. I wouldnt go cancelling your plans to come here just yet. Just be prepared for a few changes and the amount of positions available might be a lot less....

Felix Saddler

8th Sep 2011, 00:10

That could certainly throw a spanner in the works! Keep us updated lilflyboy.
Flex.

flyingscotsman86

8th Sep 2011, 13:05

lilflyboy, I understand what you said in your previous post, but I was hoping you might be able to update us on any developments please. At the time you posted this you said that you should be able to tell us more in the middle of the week, so I assumed you were expecting a further meeting or announcement.

You also said to be prepared for a few changes. If any major changes could be months or even years away, what sort of changes could we expect for this hiring season? Thanks

lilflyboy262

8th Sep 2011, 14:43

This is africa. Unfortunately time frames have no meaning in this place. Sometimes it can be days, other times it can be years.
At the moment it is preety much ops normal.
People are not getting permits but instead they are getting 3month waivers at a time. Basically the same old story.

flyingscotsman86

8th Sep 2011, 15:26

Thanks lilflyboy, that is good news. Please keep us updated if there are any further developments.

Do you (or anyone who is currently in Maun) think that there will be many people leaving this year? If so, do you think the operators will still be planning to replace them or will they be looking to reduce pilot numbers?

lilflyboy262

8th Sep 2011, 15:54

Nearly every operator works on a minimal crew.

The three "big" operators will need a few each. Delta has already hired, I doubt Moremi or Kavango will need any this year.

avio_atul02

8th Sep 2011, 19:29

@liflyboy first of all i appreciate ur helpful work for keep us updating regarding the current scenario in botswana about bush pilot job:ok:

secondly i m very much interested in knowing from you that have u ever seen or met with an Indian guy who got recruited and working as a bush pilot up there?:rolleyes:As we Indians get 1 month visa for botswana and its seems really difficult for us to find a bush pilot job within a month and of course renewal of visa is not as easy:ugh:

lilflyboy262

8th Sep 2011, 20:45

Yes, there is one working for major blue airlines

josemarb

10th Sep 2011, 15:16

Dudes and dudets,

Just to let you know, finally I would join the seek of the bush pilot job next year in february. I know it's a bit late but the circumstances are difficult for me. Yesterday bought the tickets to johannesburgh.

Looking fowards to meet you all there,
Josema:)

minimo

12th Sep 2011, 08:37

Hi all, what do you you think of the helicopter scene in Maun? Any chance for an expat instructor with turbine tickets, R44 and a little previous african chopper experience to break into this market?
Thanks for the replies

CharlieVictorSierra

12th Sep 2011, 14:03

Guys, SURELY there is enough information out there by now to actually make up your own mind as to whether or not you will make the journey. Honestly it doesnt matter how many people are there or if 'pilots will be leaving' or any of that rubbish! :hmm:

Last year:

One company said they would not hire any more pilots, a certain guy arrived and within a week he was offered a job becuase the chief liked him! Simple...
Another certain individual sayed there for many months with plenty of hours and never got a job (that is for another discussion)
Another company promised a certain pilot when a job was available they would call him back, which they subsequently did do. Another company did the same if I am not mistaken??
over 50 pilots came and many left with no job but some got a job
The waiver/tender story is a thorn in the side for all Maun pilots...as EVERYBODY knows!
What I am trying to say is it does not matter what the 'current situation is'! Stand on your own two feet, do research and get your information you may need and make the decision to come or not! You never know what may happen! STOP asking ridiculous questions covered numerous times in PPRuNe alone and use some initiative! The facts are there...just read! :ugh: If you need to be spoon fed just to make the trip you are definately gonna struggle to find a job!!! Maun is not a place for sissies!!! :=

Had to get that off my chest...:E

Exascot

12th Sep 2011, 14:25

CVS : Had to get that off my chest

Well I guess you did then :D

You have a job there. For some of these guys it is a big decision to invest in a trip to Maun and possibly end up without a post. There is no harm in trying to look for reassurance. I know the market there but am not an expert. I must say that Lilflyboy is very patient with some of the recurrent questions and extremely helpful. Your post was not :ugh:

BTW, I can't find your word 'gonna' in the Oxford English Dictionary. Please define.

CharlieVictorSierra

12th Sep 2011, 14:35

One more thing...it WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER happen again that the situation will be: Your chances of getting a job are guaranteed, get here as quickly as possible...we need you!!! So dont ask the question over and over because the answer is the same. The only time that may happen is if/when the minimums for an expat get to 1500 hrs...in which case the pool of potentials will shrink exponentially! And damn it people if you have 1200 hours on a 206, 3000TT with Grade 2 instructors and a masters degree in astrophysics...obviously your chances increase! Again...INITIATIVE and COMMON SENSE! :hmm:

Right thats my 2c worth...:ok: Lilflyboy you have a heart of gold ha ha ha I would have got over this long ago...hats off to you bugger :D

CharlieVictorSierra

12th Sep 2011, 14:39

gonna - 'going to'. I sincerely hope that was not sarcasm at its finest...;)

I understand but how much reassurance does one need???? Nobody can hold your hand and if you read my post properly you would notice that what i was trying to say is that you never know...it will always be a risk coming here! Nobody can assure you of everything...and besides that the information is there! Really

BTW - yes i do have a job in Botswana, but not in Maun and on something a slight bit faster than a 206 or van :E

lilflyboy262

12th Sep 2011, 15:49

Haha i just clicked to who you are! Happen to be flying a BE55? ;)
In that case speed isnt everything :p. Lets see you fit 12 in there :E

P.s. There is heli jobs here. Check out helicopter horizons, They fly b206s and a r44. And also wilderness operates a few b206s.

Exascot

13th Sep 2011, 05:45

BE55 - very nice, but you are right Lilflyboy I checked on the spec look at the speed: BEECH - BE-55-D55A aircraft (http://www.pilotoutlook.com/aircraft/beech/be-55-d55a)

CharlieVictorSierra

13th Sep 2011, 07:13

Afirm...thats me:ok: ha ha ha you win the microwave lilflyboy;) Damn it...No I dont have capacity for 12:* But I also dont have :yuk: either...heard it can get a bit rough;)

The BE55 isnt the only machine I happen to be playing around in though:E...and regardless of its speed its still faster:E 185 kts on ave. isnt so bad is it?

@ Excascot - what aircraft are you currently operating? Are you in Africa?

Exascot

13th Sep 2011, 07:33

CVS, I have retired from flying, now a tour operator in Greece and Botswana. We are there for the summer, from November for 6 months this time. My last jet was the A300-600 before that the VC10 (RAF) mainly Royal and VIP but they made me get into some action a few times :eek:

lilflyboy262

13th Sep 2011, 16:08

The bosses toyboy :E
Remember that convo at my braai?

CharlieVictorSierra

21st Sep 2011, 14:16

Sorry for the late reply. Mmm...vaguely but please refresh my memory over another beer and braai! ;) I must admit I do miss that about Maun. ha ha ha ha ha ha bosses toyboy :confused: :confused: Care to explain...

Anyway Im not too interested in comparing whose daddy is stronger or being nasty ;) We are both much too mature for that :E The whole point of my initial posting on this thread lilflyboy (And I may have been having a bad few days) is to back up what you said in the very first post along with your fantastic guidelines.

My point is that once you actually read thorugh this thread people are still asking so many of the same questions that are continuously being answered a few pages back in the thread (and in other blogs/websites)...and the worst being: What are my chances? Can a fresh comm get a job? What are the minimum requirements? We both know very well that those questions are impossible to answer!
People : If there is some appreciable change in the constitution, min requirements regarding expats, something worth posting about etc. I promise you Lilflyboy or somebody in the mix will post a thread...is that not so?

This is not being negative is it? :sad: We all know how hard it is there right now and nothing is certain anymore...I understand people want reassurances but they dont exist, not in Maun.

Anyway, I feel like im going around in square circles here ;) Good luck to the pilots venturing into Maun this 'hiring season'! Its what you make it...have a blast! Drinking/socialising will DEFINATELY help your cause, making a toss out of yourself while drinking/socialising will not. :ok:

See...how nice and positive was that!!! Ive made my confession and all is forgiven :) Now I refuse to post on this thread EVER again :E

Exascot

22nd Sep 2011, 13:57

The bosses toyboy
Remember that convo at my braai?

Understand what a 'braai' is but apart from that I am also totally confused. What is Lilflyboy on and who is he referring to?

lilflyboy262

22nd Sep 2011, 20:08

There was a good conversation at my place one night as to why he got the job flying that baron in the first place ;)

Jayboy1982

26th Sep 2011, 09:39

Hi guys! How's it lookin for a 300Hour aussie bloke with some 210 time?? As soon as I sell my caravan (ehm, actual caravan that you live in), I'll be there with bells on! So look forward to meeting you all in the coming months!

Cheers! :D

pilot_adrenaline

28th Sep 2011, 13:17

Hello Lilfly boy, thank you for posting the information on bush flying in Botswana :D. I am flying to Botswana in December. I have my FAA CPL. SEL INST/MEL INST, Advanced Ground Insructor with complex and high performance endorsements....not a lot but 425 hours under my belt :)...hope I get a job if i qualify and meet the standards of the operators.

Thanks once again for all the info posted here. God bless you bro. :ok:

buskilzboeing

3rd Oct 2011, 13:03

Am in Maun at the moment. Not much happening. Wilderness Air are not interested unless you have 500 plus hours unfortunately. Just enjoy the months of camping and socialising. If you stick it out hopefully they will begin to notice you. I just live for the occasional flight in the right hand seat. That will keep me here until they throw me out the country :D Will stay as long as it takes! With regards to the hours thing.. I have low hours but I wont go anywhere i will stay here for years building hours.. but will the guy with 1500 hours do that? or get a few hundred more and move on?

josemarb

4th Oct 2011, 09:52

buskilzboeing, are there many guys like you already in the city?

cessna_driver

4th Oct 2011, 11:48

Hi Buskilzboeing.
Heading out to Maun tommorow, gonna try and stick it out until beginning of Jan. I think theres quite a few low time pilots going this year, including me.

Will just have to make the best of it..

flyingscotsman86

4th Oct 2011, 18:08

I'm planning to come down to Maun soon, hopefully next month.

How are things looking at the moment? Are there many job hunters in town already? Are there any suggestions that the hiring season may be earlier/later than normal this year and if there are likely to be more/less jobs available than in recent years?

buskilzboeing

5th Oct 2011, 06:47

There are 9 guys that I know of who are here at this time. The companies claim we are here too early and that the best time to come is in January because thats when most of them employ. Personally I would rather be here when there are 8 other guys pestering for jobs rather than 50. :/ Come stay at the Sedia hotel!

CharlieVictorSierra

5th Oct 2011, 09:43

Right place, right time.......This was obviously not the braai i was at, was it? :confused: I cant think of any other reason why I got the job...I had the right attitude and qualifications which also helped.

I think if you had met/ever meet my bosses you would not be saying im the bosses toyboy....what exactly do you mean by this lilflyboy? I hope its not in an inappropriate sense...

lilflyboy262

5th Oct 2011, 11:05

We all sat around the table at my place just down from the airport. Drinking and eating, with a bunch of guys looking for work. I was giving you pleanty of crap about it. Yes it was in the inappropriate sense but I guess you have forgotten that night.
No worries though, I guess you are too serious for it now.

Exascot

5th Oct 2011, 14:50

Mods, is it possible to change this thread now to 2011 - 2012?

Jetdriver

5th Oct 2011, 15:29

Your wish is our command.

Exascot

5th Oct 2011, 17:35

Your wish is our command.

So kind sir. :ok:

proppilot

6th Oct 2011, 15:30

Hi, I've been thinking about heading out to Maun for a number of years, but hopefully it will actually work out this year, around late November is the plan. However, I spent some time working as cabin crew and someone has advised me that I should maybe leave that off the CV due to the more traditional views in Botswana about male and female roles. Do people agree that this would be a good idea or is this view nonsense? I'm male btw!

cavortingcheetah

6th Oct 2011, 15:54

It's the British colonial heritage you see. Prejudice is as alive and thriving in Africa as it is in the home country. Or is that as grossly defamatory towards the once and past Bechuanaland Protectorate as it is a just summary of the motherland?

CharlieVictorSierra

7th Oct 2011, 06:09

Ah a good interesting question :D :D :D

I agree with cheetah, in plain English it is 'old school' here. Personally, would I put that I was a cabin attendant while looking for a job in Maun? No. That is my personal opinion though.

In other words, it will not be of any advantage to you and there may be a doisadvantage. In my opinion, there will be a perception here that cabin crew is for 'pansies' or some crap like that, and Maun is a small place. It WILL get around and quickly!

Ive never heard of anybody whose been cabin crew so this is a guess. I do not work in Maun though so wait for a reply from lilflyboy, Im working on my perception of Botswana as a whole.:ok:

Exascot

7th Oct 2011, 07:01

You guys know the scene better than me but you have to deal closely with your passengers which can sometimes be difficult. Surely someone with professional training and experience in the role would be a bonus. People will find out anyway after a while. Surely you will not be able to resist telling tales from down the route.

Just my humble opinion as one of your difficult passengers :) and a retired jet captain.

CharlieVictorSierra

7th Oct 2011, 07:21

@exascot. Sir you are 100% right! That would be the logical way of looking at it.

All I am saying is to be careful as some nasty totally unfounded rumors can be spread and that kind of information is the perfect fuel for that fire! I suppose that its up to the individual if he cares about what people think or not...

mach5

7th Oct 2011, 15:55

Hi guys I am new to this forum , do companies hire people with less hrs , I just have 190hrs on DA40 with Garmin1000 experience and 10hrs flying on King Air C90A ? Indian CPL with frozen ATPL.

CharlieVictorSierra

8th Oct 2011, 08:12

Yes, they do and those ratings (i.e. C90 and DA) are totally irrelevant!

As a new comer to this forum please take time to read all the information in this thread and in the thread entitled Maun - The Essential Guide in this forum BEFORE asking questions.

Thank you,

lilflyboy262

8th Oct 2011, 15:40

Prop Pilot. I have one question for you. Have the people that have given you that advice, worked in Maun?
I worked in check-in and departures for 2 and a half years, a role that is predominantly crewed by females and gay males. Was it held against me? Pretty sure it wasn't.

Sure things are pretty "old school" in southern africa and there are a few silly ideals around... But nothing that retarded.

If anything it shows that you have and idea of what goes on in the aviation world and a hunger to be in it.

Exascot

9th Oct 2011, 06:52

LFB

Have the people that have given you that advice, worked in Maun?

Yes I have but I think that we agree. I nearly added your views of showing keen to work in the industry but I thought I had said enough. I flew with a steward who spent as much time on the flight deck as he could throwing aviation questions at us - it was very stressful I can tell you. Just like a route check. He was purely there as CC to earn money to get a CPL and be as close to the action as possible.

proppilot

9th Oct 2011, 13:09

Prop Pilot. I have one question for you. Have the people that have given you that advice, worked in Maun?

Yes, the advice was from someone who grew up in Maun and has worked for more than one of the charter companies.

I feel that my cabin crew experience will be of benefit to the pilot role in Maun, but if the employers and the pilot community are likely to think differently, then maybe it is best to leave it off my CV. I've heard of CVs being passed around town for entertainment purposes so I'd like to avoid becoming a laughing stock like this. I don't want to negatively influence my chances of getting a job just because of one of my past jobs. :confused:

kiwialex

9th Oct 2011, 16:12

Hello, I am a ploit with 520 hours. Mianly on the C206. I don't know whether to mkae the journey to Muan. It is a lot of moneys. lilFlyboy, can you tell me how to getting myself a jobs? I can't be bothered to read any of the related threads. :)

CBR

9th Oct 2011, 16:30

Whats up dude,

Fare 1 the thruds are very reppetootive and i funk they r nt very helpings. as far as i now you wont get a jub with that meny hores. I am in moon at the moment and i have a fresh ppl 64 hores cissna 153 and fings are lookin promisin with the coompanoes. they sed if you have too meny hores you mite not be a gud ploti.

good luck thoo, peacxe oot

lilflyboy262

9th Oct 2011, 17:39

Zandy, go do something useful :p

The only time CVs get laughed at is when people put things like how many instrument approaches they have done.... Or Flight sim X hours.

CBR

9th Oct 2011, 19:21

Hey dude,

most of the plots in moon have fold up bars that wen unfolded go all the way down to their hands, cos they're really good

lilfly boy has bars down his legs aswell:ok:

Solid Rust Twotter

9th Oct 2011, 19:37

lilflyboy262

9th Oct 2011, 21:24

Three of those guys are just taking the piss. Got nothing else do do while they are waiting for their scenic flights...

ImaginedByGod

10th Oct 2011, 02:47

I just wanted to pop in and say thank you to everyone contributing useful info to this thread. Its been a joy to read and i'm really looking forward to meeting you guys. And LilFlyBoy, thank you SO MUCH for the essential guide!

cavortingcheetah

10th Oct 2011, 03:05

Lucky for some that I don't own or operate a fleet of aircraft up in the swamps.
I'd be keeping a subtle and secretive log of all those who obviously enough had neither the initiative to read or even evaluate the Essential Guide. Writing and linguistic patterns would be used at the interview process, to identify the poorly researched applicants who, once discovered in their piloting pusillanimity would be left unattended for the camp crocodiles to eat, each pilot having been given a jar of chilly spice to take into the swamps with him in order to satisfy the environmtal and reptile health regulations which state that the crocodiles liking for currys and spice must be respected as being part of their animal rights.