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View Full Version : Are P2 Hours Useless For anything other than if you want to be an offshore Captain?


t_total
1st Jan 2011, 03:33
Hello All

A few people I have spoken to in Australia have said to me that P2 hours (eg co-pilot) hours are pretty useless, other than if you are aiming to be an offshore Captain one day. Ie they said they would rather employ someone with 300TT (200 PIC) rather than someone who has 1500TT (200PIC)

Just wondering is this also the same with employers in other parts of the world, ie UK, Europe, USA? Ie No point going co-pilot offshore at all unless you want to stay offshore all your career?

Looking foirward to hearing opinions

Cheers

S76driver
1st Jan 2011, 15:33
Not sure how it works there but in the UK you can log P1/US as a P2 as long as the Captain agrees and signs, I'm guessing each company has their own requirements for logging it though. I find it hard to believe that 1000 hrs as a co-pilot in medium/large twins would prevent stepping into another job though.

BaronG
2nd Jan 2011, 01:49
I think you've been misled - P2 hours aren't all that useful for offshore command either (in the UK at least) :}

BG.

Longdog
2nd Jan 2011, 02:39
When I worked at Gulf Helicopters in Qatar they hired an Aust. with 2500 P2 on a S76 and virtually no command time, as a co-pilot/ captain in training, and was he qualified as a captain after about 6 months.

Here in Canada we tend to divide your P2 time in half, and use that as a loose guide toward your PIC time, with the understanding that you would only be qualified to do basic type flying untill you qualified to be upgraded to more demanding flying.

So, I would say yes, it does qualify towards total time, but it will depend on the individual, the company, and the type of flying your applying to get into.

Any flying is worth something, to the right person at the right time!

Best of luck!

t_total
2nd Jan 2011, 07:42
Thank you for the replies.

Perhaps P2 hours are not as useless as some people have led me to believe :ok:

the coyote
2nd Jan 2011, 08:14
I did about 1800 hours as a copilot, and am glad I have it. Its a great opportunity to learn from someone who is more experienced than yourself.

If I had stepped straight into a command role, I have no doubt I would have missed out on a few good tips, tricks and techniques.

Hours are not just a number.

Epiphany
2nd Jan 2011, 10:11
All job adverts require a total number of hours as well as specified P1 hours. P2 hours count towards that total so why would they be useless?

Helipilot1982
2nd Jan 2011, 18:32
T Total

I am just wondering if any of the people who told you this have been or are P2's?

I can honestly say that the experiences I have had as a P2 have made me a much more competent and knowledgable pilot. Without this, I am sure that some of my experiences of operating as a single pilot may well have had different consequences had it not been for the knowledge gained as a P2 flying with experienced P1's.

Safe Flying all!!!

Torquetalk
2nd Jan 2011, 19:27
er, the arifmatik has got me baffled. Both examples involve a pilot with 200 PIC. The difference is one has 1500 TT and the other 300 TT. Candidate with more hours would seem to offer more. Like coyote said, hours aren't just a number.

If you get P1 hours early in your career you likely got them in a single pilot, single engine environment: useful experience: especially for many onshore jobs. If you have lot's of P2, that's probably from a multi-engine, mulit-crew environment: very useful experience, especially for many offshore jobs.

Night Beetle
2nd Jan 2011, 20:58
After gaining a cpl, any time spent as an endorsed co-pilot is time well spent.Especially if you are with another who is prepared to share his knowledge. Not always the case though.Some begrudge a newbie being next to them.

The problem comes when is it time to move on ? ,to a single engine single pilot envoirnment.Away from the shelter of the 2 pilot 2 engine thing.

You will still need command hours for an ATPL.

There is no easy road just hard graft.

t_total
2nd Jan 2011, 22:32
T Total I am just wondering if any of the people who told you this have been or are P2's?


Answer to the above is No. All three are however chief pilots, all having gone through the instructoir route then flying mainly SE Turbine (with a little twin) and Piston all their careers.

The problem comes when is it time to move on ?

Thats what I was thinking in the first place, but I guess after reading some of the posts above, it will all depend on the employer, individual etc

Heliringer
2nd Jan 2011, 22:42
T total, They probably mean with only offshore experience you couldn't be sent you out on a sling contract/low level survey/shooting ops/mountain ops and some other stuff the utility guys get to do quite a bit of. This is only because being offshore you won't have had any exposure to this if you became a Co-pilot right after training. However, you would learn to do this type of work with the minumum of training due to having your offshore flying experience! IMHO

I can't see why anyone would want to leave the high pay and good working conditions of the offshore world to work your arse off in the bush/mountains/jungles that utility pilots find themselves in for about 3/4 of the pay of an offshore pilot.

Hey wanna swap?

Brian Abraham
2nd Jan 2011, 22:51
To the OP. Spent many an hour sitting with many "ink still wet on the CPL" guys and gals in the offshore. All that I've managed to keep a handle on have gone on to bigger and better things. So don't despair.

Especially if you are with another who is prepared to share his knowledge. Not always the case though.Some begrudge a newbie being next to them.

It takes all types. Newbies, as you call them, often take time to understand their place in the scheme of things. eg,
1. Had one 200 hour CPL tell me when he was flying he was in command - some begrudged being offered advice
2. Another when not flying would slide the seat back and place his size 10's on the instrument panel
3. One who's penchant was listening to the top 10 on the ADF at a volume where you couldn't communicate - pre landing checks please!!!! Easier to revert to single pilot, all the subtle hints in the world didn't work.

Not all their fault either. They were put into the seat with sometimes a pencil whipped endorsement (if you believe what they said) and it was all on the job training, often with people like me who had no instructional background.

Some of us had a reputation for being crusty old buggers, but you need to understand where my generation came from, military, Vietnam, so you had a generation gap of some dimensions. And then some. The upshot is it's a two way street.

The problem comes when is it time to move on ? ,to a single engine single pilot envoirnment.Away from the shelter of the 2 pilot 2 engine thing.


Not aware that any had a problem making the move. Not to say some didn't of course, just not aware of any.

ReverseFlight
3rd Jan 2011, 01:37
You will still need command hours for an ATPL.


So true. I have a mate who's got many thousands of hours of offshore P2 but has no hope of being promoted to Captain by his employer (based in SEA) due to internal politics.

Night Beetle
3rd Jan 2011, 06:18
Brian

I would not tolerate that rot either. Strong warning follows.....

t_total
3rd Jan 2011, 10:52
I can't see why anyone would want to leave the high pay and good working conditions of the offshore world to work your arse off in the bush/mountains/jungles that utility pilots find themselves in for about 3/4 of the pay of an offshore pilot.

Utility pilots may not have as gooconditions but I imagine some of the flying they do would be pretty good fun :ok:

Briam I would not have tolerated any of that as a Captain either :=

Thanks again for the replies

Helipilot1982
3rd Jan 2011, 16:36
T Total

I suspected that they hadn't been P2's!!

At the risk of opening a can of worms and a barage of abuse from fellow PPruners - there may be a hint of jealousy when they spoke to you!!!

I would say that most heli pilots would like to get some twin time in their log books during their careers. For those that use the instructor route flying primarily single pistons and turbines - this can take some considerable time (depending on their employer). I suspect, and could well be wrong with this assumption, (and I apologise for any offence caused to some people) that the chief pilots you spoke too, may be slightly jealous of a low hour pilot jumping into a big twin for their first job and logging twin hours - an opportunity that they may never have had.

This may not be the case at all as I dont know the individuals concerned. I would say though that hours/experience is job dependant!! If i was a chief pilot recruiting (all other attributes being equal), then i would take the 1500hr pilot over the 300hr pilot. However, if it was a single pilot, single engine Onshore job and both pilots were 1500hr pilots with one having 1300hrs Offshore P2 and the other having 1500hrs Onshore experience (1300hrs P1) then I would be more inclined to hire the more experienced Onshore pilot!!!