Basings RIP

[BIG MACH]

If I were a betting man I would wager on a change in the basings structure. We have all heard the rumours regarding very high level concern about the chaos that the basings system has brought to the CX operation. Before governments took an interest the system worked well. We were all based in HK, had days off at home and were subject to HK law. Governments, spying a revenue raising opportunity, decided we had to be onshore. This has brought with it different laws in different base areas. For example, under Aussie law if you have worked for a company for an uninterrupted period of 10 years you are entitled to 4 months paid leave. With each year that goes by the paid leave entitlement increases. If the Aussies get that, why should not everyone else?

As the pilot body has become more litigious, they are likely to exploit differences between base areas as a gude as to which court to fight in. If the law in the UK were more likely to provide a favourable outcome, the AOA would take their fight there. The onshoring of the bases has created an octopus whose tentacles are an impediment to the efficient operation of the company. The company are extremely concerned at the implications of operating to conflicting and sometimes contradictory laws from base to base, hence the big question mark.

The simple answer would be to scrap the bases and start again with a fresh piece of paper. Housing allowance for Officers who were re-based in HK would be an issue, but it is probably no longer the overriding issue. One idea that should be receiving consideration is a commuting roster. The Koreans and ANA have done this for years. In ANAs case they do 14 on 14 off. Korean is less favourable but the principle remains the same. Their crews are paid in the local currency into a local bank. Crews who accepted a commuting roster would not get housing allowance.

Since the Basings Agreement with the AOA is due for renewal in the New Year we can probably expect some changes.

[bonajet]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good whinge:

Long Service Leave - Victoria

An employee will be entitled to take long service leave after 10 years of continuous employment with one employer. The entitlement is calculated on a pro¬rata basis. Based on the formula of one week per 60 weeks of employment, an employee will be entitled to take approximately 8.66 weeks long service leave after 10 years of continuous employment.

If you think tax regimes are going to allow willy-nilly commuting, you're sadly mistaken.

[nitpicker330]

If CX ran the basings show correctly, efficiently and with honesty and integrity there wouldn't be any problems at all.

All the problems they have are of their own doing.

#1 Spend some money employing enough "QUALIFIED" staff to run the office!!!

[Captain Dart]

The mill owners have already suffered a large number of resignations by FO's on the Aus base; how many more do you think they would get if they closed it (mine for one)? There are also rumours of increasing recruitment in the States. They are flat out crewing flights as it is, not to mention forking out for HKG salary, allowances and housing for those who did come back.

The company now fancies itself as a 'global player'. It is no longer a case of 'wah, we big hong in Hong Kong we do wha' we want'. Nitpicker hit the nail on the head with his post.

Commuting rosters, for those who want them, should be available but not to the detriment of based crew. And I'd certainly be on the hunt for a damned good tax accountant, in Australia at least, if I was a commuter maintaining a house and family in 'Godzone'.

[BIG MACH]

For info, Dan Buster, I am already on a base. Having seen the way the company moved over Amsterdam I am interested in discussions now taking place behind closed doors. When the company weighed the benefits of the Amsterdam base against the disadvantage of Housing Allowance, the base lost.

Willy nilly commuting, as Bonajet calls it, is already a fact in many jurisdictions, including the US, Canada and Europe. In order to distinguish between a commute and a base, a base is where your pattern starts. A roster pattern that started in HK would involve a commute. To re-iterate, the system is already operational.

As for tax; this does not currently affect the company, but since laws get changed it could be an issue for them in one, two or ten years time. Why deal with several jurisdictions when you only need deal with one.

[Rook]

Funnily enough, as CX is going backwards, Air China is offering bases on the A330. I also heard the Qatar and Etihad are talking about it too. Could get really interesting.

[BIG MACH]

Yet Emirates looked at the proposition and decided it was too difficult and Singapore Airlines, one of, if not the, major competitor, steered clear of bases.

[Air Profit]

Emirates is currently studying the basings concept. They have concluded that with the present rate of expansion, a growing network and the difficulty in keeping pilots living in the desert, that bases are inevitably the only way to go. Rumour has it that a 2012 launch date is agreed. A friend in 'high' places at the airline has confirmed these details. Initially it will be London, NY, SYD. A US west coast base is also likely. Once an airline reaches a certain size, it is not logistically possible to keep all your pilots in one base.

[Captain Dart]

Maybe this is why Emirates are considering bases:

Britain forms plan for Gulf evacuation in event of war with Iran - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/8228244/Britain-forms-plan-for-Gulf-evacuation-in-event-of-war-with-Iran.html)

Notwithstanding, Cathay should be pooping blue lights if it is true. They would have to seriously upgrade their package to recruit and retain pilots; A scales anyone? (With, of course, an appropriate adjustment for the zero pay rise over the years).

Or maybe their plan is for cranky 60 + year old captains, too old to go anywhere else, keeping the show on the road with ex-cadets in the other seats? Nothing would surprise me with this lot.

As incumbent EK pilots would have first lash at the bases, Emirates would have to pay a king's ransom to attract crews to the sandpit, especially in the light of the above link.

As always in the airline industry, an interesting year ahead, and 'Happy New Year' from the galasphere!

Larry Dart

[Air Profit]

Bases will initially be filled by 'lottery', so some very junior crew could find themselves with a base. Strange way to staff the base, but no crazier than some of the 'seniority outrages' we've seen as CX. Apparantly, Emirates needs to keep many of their C&T in Dubai, but will 'sweeten' the pot for them so as to not cause too much frustration. They have 90 A380's coming, with the rumour of another 30 on top of that. Commands in 3-4 years maximum.....and an ever improving package. CX had better pull their thumbs out.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Why do you think 28mths was the offer, they know something is on the horizon, but are just delaying the inevitable.

[BIG MACH]

But Air Profit, there are a lot of airlines, much bigger than CX who do not have bases. How many overseas bases does American or Delta have? Did'nt realise that BA or Lufthansa had bases. Surely they are big enough to qualify. Living in the sandpit is not like living in HK or Singapore.

In ten years time CX will have a number of FOs and SOs on local terms. CX's long term plan is to do a Singapore Airlines in respect of its crews.

[Air Profit]

Well, airlines like Delta have 7 or 8 bases in the US. Again, once an airline reaches a certain size, it's more efficient to have crew distributed amongst the different geographical areas. Look at Ryan Air as an example. As for doubting the Emirates info.....we'll have to wait and see won't we...? ;)

[parabellum]

In ten years time CX will have a number of FOs and SOs on local terms. CX's long term plan is to do a Singapore Airlines in respect of its crews.


Bear in mind that SQ has always intended to be a national airline, flown by nationals, eventually, with expats filling gaps on a contract basis, but the continual expansion has meant that expats have been employed since they first started.

SQ dabbled with overseas bases, it was foisted upon Operations by the bean counters but quietly dumped, where possible, not sure if they still have any o'seas based crew now. It certainly screwed up the rosters for those who chose to stay in SIN.

[MrClaus]

The only reason SQ was able to go all local is the steady supply of Singapore Airforce pilots. Hong Kong not only doesn't have an airforce, but is a demographic time bomb. It has one of the lowest birth rates in the world; well below replacement level, and mostly maintains the population with poorly educated mainlanders. Not a good recipe for a local staffing solution.

[airplaneridesrfun]

DL has AMS as a base.... maybe NRT too. CO/UA has Guam as a base with Continental Micronesia.

[Cpt. Underpants]

FDX has many overseas bases, including Guangzhou. All their ZGGG pilots live in HKG, but that's another issue...

[third floor whore]

Personally, I cant see the company ditching the bases as long as there is housing allowance in HK under existing contracts. There are just too many benefits to the company of having guys on bases.

And I suspect that the reason not many people leave for EK, is the housing, and the prospect of living in the sandpit.

I think that once CX ramps up C scale, and actually gets some poor suckers to sign up to such a sh!tty deal, we will see a reassesment of the housing.

I wouldnt be surprised if the company tries for a lowered scale, in exchange for 25 years. Hopefully it wont be "sign or be sacked". But you never know.

[SQC7991]

The only reason SQ was able to go all local is the steady supply of Singapore Airforce pilots. Hong Kong not only doesn't have an airforce, but is a demographic time bomb. It has one of the lowest birth rates in the world; well below replacement level, and mostly maintains the population with poorly educated mainlanders. Not a good recipe for a local staffing solution.] Mr Claus,

Singapore does have an Air Force but that isn't where the majority of SIA local pilots come from. The ex air force pilots are seriously disadvantaged when joining SQ as they have to start from scratch building heavy jet sectors (a requirement for command in SQ) and are much older when they join than the major source of local SQ recruitment - cadets from Malaysia. The majority of local pilots in SIA were originally from Malaysia but over the years become PR's and then citizens. I guess the equivalent for CX would be specifically recruiting cadets from over the border in addition to other international cadets. Incidentally Singapore probably has a bigger demographic problem than HKG and takes in expats from all over Asia to expand their workforce at all levels and thus eventually the local population as the PR/citizen route is followed.

SIA were never very entusiastic about bases and seemed to roster in and out of bases in a way which deliberatlety made them look inefficient. For example LHR based captains would arrive in SIN enjoy a few days in the Conrad before operating to SYD and back before operating home to London. Lots of wasted days and expensive hotel nights compared to the CX model of min rest in the Headland before returning to base. Plus on many occassions a SIN based pilot would PX back from AUS in order that a based captain could operate the sector - not very efficient to say the least. Perhaps now with the A330 doing lots of OZ sectors they can run bases a bit more efficiently, if they have them again, but I don't know.

Also the widely held view that the powers didn't like bases because they lost a certain amount of control over the crew probably had some truth in it.

[MrClaus]

SQC7991,

I stand corrected. I guess if CX was to follow the SQ model they would then have to start taking in mainlanders. Given the ever closening relationship with Air China, this may not be too far from the truth. Possibly a combined CX/Air China cadet scheme?

[LongTimeInCX]

Over the years, I have had the occasional opportunity to chat with a few mainland pilots who worked for China Southern, China Eastern and Air China. From what limited exposure I gained, it seems that apart from a few cultural differences, they really are little different to us in many ways. I would have no objection to working with them providing Flt Ops Mgt insist there was to be absolutely no compromise on language and operating skills standards, and it was taught that 121.5 is not for chatting about the price of fish balls.

Just think of the advantages - when cx pay them 10% more than they are earning now, (the new ZGGG scale), money saved could be redistributed back to the rest of us in the form of, what was that word? yes SUBSTANTIAL pay rise!, and the directors get even bigger bonuses - everybody happy.

A win for the mainlanders, a win for cx, and a win for us. I reckon I should be the next DFO, what do you reckon?

[Cpt. Underpants]

Me love you, LongTime!

I'll support you, but only if you have a degree in zoology, write beautiful weekend missives without substance and can lie under oath.

[cxlinedriver]

The bases will remain as they are until it costs too much.

It is still cheaper for the company to base crew than to employee them in HKG.