PAS Aviation looking for FO A319 in Germany

[el caballero rojo]

Anybody who knows for whom they are looking FO and SFOs? Is it Germania or Germanwings?

[el caballero rojo]

Any Info regarding the terms and conditions at Germanwings? I don' t understand why they would take contractors.

[Bob Down]

Mr. Rojo,

If you are interested, why don't you ask PAS, I am sure they will enlighten you?

....and possibly explain why the company wants to use contractors?? Maybe is it because they don't need you to speak German to be a contractor, perchance???

Ask the questions, the answers are out there!!!

BD

[ATC83]

Ok..

Yes it is with Germanwings, with various bases throughout Germany. It says German is not necessary but is an advantage.
Salary as follows:

4075 Euros basic (which is contracted for 79hrs per month)
Flight pay which is 623 Euros per month (for up to 79 hrs)
also, 2.25 Euros per duty hour on top.

Overtime is 66 Euros per hour above 79.

Whilst training salaries are reduced until line check completed successfully (Basic 3596, flight pay 558 Euros per month).

No pension fund or loss of licence provided by them but they do give you 50 Euros per month for pension and 50 Euros per month for LOL.

Initially 9 month contract till October 2011..if they like you, you may be offered a further 12 months thereafter.

It look pretty good. But just to put the icing on the cake they will pay you 500Euros per month served on successful completion of the contract.

they also give you accom. at home base which means it ain't gonna cost you extra rent if you want to commute home on days off.

[el caballero rojo]

Thanks ATC83 for the useful Info,... now, I know that I don´t need to bother applying. I don´t want the PAS people (B B) waisting their time.

I am sure it is a good deal for someone wanting to fly in Europe on an A319 with some 2000 hours.

Thanks BOB for the advice,... Do you know how many applications I sent and turned down as the terms were :uhoh:?

I learned from that,... it is a waist of time for both and if I can find out before, why not use this forum?

Übrigens, Ich verstehe nicht warum Germanwings Kopiloten sucht wenn Training Network selber genugend Leute abliefern kann.

And the VC(Union) is normally quite a big barrier, in particular now when Eurowings wants to furlough a large part of their pilots. I am sure PAS will not be able to answer this question.

[Dani]

I'm also a bit surprised - I was under the impression that Germanwings only accepts pilots passing the DLR test.

[el caballero rojo]

According a German Forum they have a serious lack of pilots. What I don't understand is that People who failed whatever stage of the Lufthansa screening are Not allowed ever to apply for a LH company again.As a contractor you are good enough. Typical "die Lufthansa"

[EAM]

Its a very strange story about this job offer, specialy as it is compeletly out of the requirements that LH and 4U usualy have.
Just about the salary, you will end up with around 5000€ gross, as the job is quite interesting for those without job in germany, they have to pay tax in germany and will end up with around 3500€ and still have to pay for the medical insurance. It will pay your bills, but not so good for a short time contract.

[el caballero rojo]

@EAM I don't believe that those contractors will be welcomed with open arms by the KTV pilots ( collective b. a., Read LH Pilots)

Only 2 Years ago PAS offered a Contract for DLH Cargo MD11 SFO's. It had super T and C's. The requirements were much higher. A DLR Test was required,... I was on the verge of starting when the downturn started and LH cancelled the whole deal. It was approved by the PV they said and the selection was much different. So,...I have my doubts about this contract and the outcome.

[EAM]

Oh yes I remember that, I was surprised when they were looking for MD-11 contractors.
Anyway its typical LH, same with LH Italia, Condor and now Germanwings, first they call a lot of pilots and at the end noone will be hired.

[el caballero rojo]

Ok, there is already a huge discussion about the fact that the PV will not allow contractors. For a reason I fully understand (trying to by pass KTV) , I guess there will never be a single contractor flying for 4U. The martinair story is a different one. You are right EAM. PAS and the applicants do all the effort and at the end nothing happens. The future will show but I wouldn't count on it. been there, done it and I was dissapointed many times.

[OLMETI]

Anyone Knows How The Selection Process May Be?
Thanks

[OLMETI]

Hi to all,it looks like i am going to be called for the selection process,the need people to start working in mid-february.Please i need any kind of info regarding the selection process,if they make general knowledge atpl kind exams?any kind of group exercise?etc,etc.....please any help info would be very important for me
Thanks

[EAM]

how should you get any information about it, if noone has done it so far.
I guess you are one of the first, so good luck.

[OLMETI]

I was just wondering if someone have done it in the past,I don´t think its the first recruitment Germanwings does.Someone who did´n get trough or someone who is working there.I just wanna know what should I focus in to prepare for it.Thanks again.

[EAM]

Its the first time that GWI hires through an agency, so I guess noone has done it before. All pilots working for GWi have done the DLR, but with the DLR you get a permanent job and the possibility to work for LH.
Anyway you need about 2 month preparation for that.
So I guess you will do something different.

[OLMETI]

ok,understood,thanks for your help

[el caballero rojo]

Anybody who is actually flying as a contract FO for Germanwings at the moment?

[lederhosen]

There are quite a lot of pilots in Germany with airbus experience who lost their jobs at Hamburg International and before that Bluewings. If this is the case at Germanwings this may be a way around the DLR test restrictions in order to get experienced people on line as quickly as possible.

It will be interesting to see how the union reacts. As a short term measure it makes sense. Medium term the union might well see it as LH going the same way other legacy carriers like BA are going and only hiring people who alread have type ratings.

[Sputnik80]

There is supposedly no DLR test to join 4U on a PAS contract however you have to pass this selection: (info as given by PAS)

PHASE 1
English Language Proficiency
Aviation Proficiency
Logical Reasoning
Mathematics
Mental Arithmetic
Memory Function
Perception/Concentration
Spatial Orientation
Multi Task Abilities

PHASE 2
If the above are passed you will then go into the A320 SIM for a screening session.

PHASE 3
Personality Factors
Interpersonal skills
Team Interaction
CRM-Attitude
Psychological Interview

Doesn't this Assessment sound familiar?

What a joke....a screening not called a DLR Test but having exactly the same contents as the original DLR. And all this for a 6 month contract.
Wouldn't it be better to apply as a Direct Entry FO with LH mainline?

[el caballero rojo]

Anybody who actually joined 4U on a contract via PAS?
It would surprise me.

[cessnagirl]

Do they take on any low hours guys?

[OLMETI]

Hi again to everyone.I have recieved an email from PAS aviation today asking me if im available to attend a selection this month.the kind of tests they do is exactly like a DLR but they say its not.what I am wondering is if someone who went to the february selection (wich was only for German pilots)could please tell here antrhing about the experience,anything would be of a great help.Thanks

[OldNewcomer]

I attended the selection in February. Here some remaining impressions:

English: mainly "grammar-book" knowledge e.g. terms, conditional clauses, prepositions

Mathematics: mainly equations, rule of proportion and aviation related topics (e.g. aircraft with GS 360kts in FL 360 should descent to FL 240 within 30NM. calculate ROD) the major problem during this test is the short time factor.

Mental Arithmetic: quite easy, simple multiply / divide / adding / subtracting tasks within the span from 0 – 1000 and time calculations e.g. 07:26lt – 2hrs14minutes

Aviation Proficiency: roughly 60 questions from all atpl-subjects. Not too easy!

Logical Reasoning: several tasks with complex symbols, numerical series

Spatial Orientation: tasks with cubes and other geometrical bodies

Perception: see and remember the number geometric bodies (squares, circles & triangles) in very short time

Concentration: find all 83s out of 5-digit columns
e.g.
15986
39586
78321

I prepared myself with a commercial software from skytest (the airbelin / tyrolean / dca program) and I think it came quite close to the real test. Those of you who use skytest to prepare for any selection process conducted by interpersonal should focus on the following tests:
Balkenwaage
Formentest
Buchstabenblocktest (don´t worry the interpersonal version is much easier!!!!)
Multitasking with instruments
Würfelklappen
Würfelvergleichstest
Zahlenblocktest
Zahlenreihen

For the screening you´ll get a detailed briefing package. Although you are screened as 320 pilot on a 320 simulator, the main focus is raw data flying. Prepare yourself accurately with it!
You will fly with a GWI CPT who acts as your "third hand" only. This means he won´t make any standard or deviation callouts but you can command some actions to him like set HDG 180, pull speed 220kts, set STR VOR with Course 250 in RADNAV etc…..
The atmosphere during the whole selection procedure is very relaxed and friendly. No one wants to push you into failures but nerver-the-less the failure rate was approximately 50%.
Good luck!

[OLMETI]

Hi Oldnewcomer,first of all thank you very,very much for your help,its really helpfull for me.Eventough i think 2 weeks is not enough time to prepare for this,i´ll give it a try.I have a couple of questions for you if i´m not asking too much:
Regarding the skytest,the one you used,the Air Berlin one,i could only find it in the German version,but since i don´t speak it,the english version i could only find it for the skytest preparation software for DLR 1(wich is the version for Lufthansa,Austrian,Condor,etc...)Do you think this one is roughly the same?orits not worth getting it.
Regarding the Concentration: find all 83s out of 5-digit columns
e.g.
15986
39586
78321 here the only thing is to find the 83 in the column right?

In the sim check you didnt get any kind of emergencys or normal airbus procedures?and did you get any intrument flyind like VOR tracking,etc...

And last if you could please translate to english the test subgects you said to focus on the skytest and state more or less what questions did you get on the personal interview it would be amazing.

Once again thank a lot for that usefull help,i owe you a beer!!!!

[Harvey320]

Thank you OldNewcomer!

Finally some good info on the selection. :ok: Doesn't seem that bad.
I'll be attending the selection this month.

Did you get the contract?

Do you guys think the package is good? What about taxes? :hmm:
Do you have to pay them in Germany or what?

[OLMETI]

Hi Harvey320,I´m suposed to be attending the selection this month too!
'
have you already got the confirmation from them?I told them i can go on the dates and still waiting for confirmation,do you know if they pay for plane tickes and accomodation?

About the taxes,i don´t really know how they work there,but since we are going trough a broker and i have already worked with another broker,my experience was to pay some minimium taxes of the country where the broker was,but it was almost nothing.But again i don´t know how they work here.
Regarding the package i think its pretty good,since they give accomodation once working and transport,always the taxes are not too bad.

Last thing,Does anyone know were to find a good ATPL question bank for this selection?Is it included in the skytest?

Thanks to everyone and best of luck!!!:cool:

[OldNewcomer]

Hi Olmeti,

regarding your skytest questions…. I had a look at the samples of the DLR-version and except the "dice-folding test" I found nothing which comes close to the interpersonal test, although the same skills are trained / tested.

And last if you could please translate to english the test subgects you said to focus on the skytestSorry but I don´t know the exact english translations for the skytest subjects but by looking at the samples you will get an impressions how the tests look like. And by the way, although many of the candidates who attended the selection with me were not prepared for the computertests, none of them failed the selection because of these.

Regarding the Concentration: find all 83s out of 5-digit columns
e.g.
15986
39586
78321 here the only thing is to find the 83 in the column right?exactly, but be aware that possibly you´ll have to find out other numbers so read the instructions carefully. One further detail to mention is that you´ll have to solve 30 tasks within 15minutes, so a proper time management is also required.

In the sim check you didnt get any kind of emergencys or normal airbus procedures?As said before the main focus is lying on raw data, manual flying and basic navigation procedures (holding!!!!). You will do this in the VOR-ROSE Mode, followed by a selected-selected VOR approach. Therefore you will have to set the autoflight system on (FDs-AP-Athrust) until you will resume manual flight at the minimum.
Thereafter you will have an engine failure during climb out. Just work as calm on it as this two guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4riBeS7GEk&feature=related) and everything will be fine.
Furthermore I got a TCAS/RA in low level! and the CPT asked me whether he should reset a tripped cb in flight or not (do you think this clever?)

and state more or less what questions did you get on the personal interview it would be amazing as I didn´t reach the final stage I cannot say anything about it for sure. I guess there will be group exercises, disputations and personal interview observed by a psychologist.

Do you guys think the package is good? Yes, I do think so. Unfortunately it is a limited contract and the only way to get a permanent one with GWI is positive DLR-selection….


What about taxes?
Do you have to pay them in Germany or what? I don´t know. Even the CPT who introduced us couldn´t answer this question for sure. He only assumed that taxes have to be paid in the UK, as your employer is an UK-based company….

[OLMETI]

This is amazing old newcomer,you are making my way to the test much easyer.:D

Last question for you or anyone who could help me is about the ATPL question bank Germanwings may use,if anyone knows where to find/buy it it would be great.

Many thanks

[Harvey320]

Olmeti,

I don't have any confirmation yet, but someone from PAS called yesterday to check my German language. He said they'll let me know as soon as possible, they do not know themselves exactly when and where the selection will take place.

For the ATPL test, I'll just go through the "Ace's Technical Pilot Interview", if that's not enough I don't care.

Regarding the taxes, are there any German guys that either accepted the contract or are intending to sign the contract? What do you guys plan, what are the options?

[OLMETI]

Aso oldnewcomer,if you could please tell us any questions you may remember from the general aviation knowledge it would be also very nice.
Did you prepare for this from anywhere especificly?
Thanks again for everything and sorry if i am being a pain in the ass...:)

[OldNewcomer]

there are only very few questions which I can remember…

meridian convergence – increasing with sine of latitude!?
question about great circle, rhumb line, LEB
aircraft flies above its optimum FL – effect on fuel consumption
course-scheme calculation
how does IRS compute GS
question where to find definitions / directives about airliners according ICAO Annex???? – any JAR-OPS ???? or FAR ???? (this question was my favourite one)
many meteorological questions
purpose of vortex generators

I prepared myself with "ACE-technical Pilot Interview" and "Pilots Reference Guide" but I felt myself only average prepared.

[A320familyguy]

Hi

First of all thank you all for the information regarding the Germanwings assessment.

I have also been invited this month and would appreciate some more info regarding the ATPL questions and what will happen on the last day during the interview and group tests etc.