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empire4
27th Dec 2010, 04:06
Anyone got any info on QF jobs in in Perth. A & F or E, I & R.... Seems to have no closing date. I wonder how many people they will get considering you get paid 30K less than Virgin.

Arnold E
27th Dec 2010, 04:32
You will only get 30K more at Virgin if you can get a job with Virgin.

chockchucker
27th Dec 2010, 05:34
Got a web link to the job add?


Last I heard they were after at least 8 people.

empire4
27th Dec 2010, 06:33
Qantas careers - Careers Frame (http://www.careers.qantas.com.au/careers-frame.aspx?section=job_search&subsection=)

lamem
28th Dec 2010, 06:06
The big man is looking for 13 but only got 8 suitable candidates. The relocation package is pathetic. Basically you will uproot and move your family at your own expense.

Arnold E
28th Dec 2010, 07:35
but only got 8 suitable candidates.Hmmmm. what do you mean by suitable.:confused::confused:

As a famous person said "please explain"

QFBUSBOY
31st Dec 2010, 14:14
MechanicaL LAME
Level 4 = $87595.27 incl shift(one type)

Level 5 = $93717.12 incl shift(two types)

Level 6 = $99822.46 incl shift(three types)

Level 7 = $105917.76 incl shift(four types)

Avionics LAME
Level 6 = $99822.46 incl shift(one type)

Level 7 = $105917.76 incl shift(two types)

Level 8 = $112040.32 incl shiftthree types)

Level 9 = $118241.10 incl shift(four types)

These are approx wages before overtime and not including "foreign operators" allowances.

Basic wage X 38% shift loading

Refer Fair Work Australia website for Qantas/ALAEA EBA 8

http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/wpa/CAUN085259566.pdf

Jet-A-One
1st Jan 2011, 01:41
How ridiculous is it that a new mechanical LAME at QF has to have 3 types to earn anywhere near the money 1 type will get you at Jet*. This is an issue that needs to be sorted out this EBA.

empire4
1st Jan 2011, 02:57
And..........Virgin Tech

initial B1 restricted Yr 1 $117,572 ,Yr 2 $121,099 ,Yr 3 $124,731, Yr 4 $128,473 .

Full B1..... $131,992, $135,951, $140,029, $144,230

All 1 type. Extra $5500 per more type, extra $8000 for perm nights. Overtime time and a half.

From what I have found out Getting a job at either QF or Virgin is just as hard or just as easy for both of them.

Arnold E
1st Jan 2011, 03:17
From what I have found out Getting a job at either QF or Virgin is just as hard or just as easy for both of them.
I know from my son's experience, it is certainly not easy getting a job with the Virgins.:sad:

ALAEA Fed Sec
1st Jan 2011, 05:27
Just to make these comparisons a bit clearer guys. The Virgin rates and the year 1,2,3,4 thing includes the 3%pay increase each year. As we speak the wages are -

Mech - $117,572
Av - $ 131,992

This is basically for a 40 hour working week.

The Qantas rates posted here are for a 38 hour week. The Qantas rates also see you move up each 4 years for experience. The Virgin system only sees you move if you get a new licence.

I just have a question for those calling for changes to fix the "problem" with the Qantas pay system. If you could elect now to go from your lower level straight to the Virgin equivalent wage rate (Mech 8 or Av 10) but you would lose the service point and ability to go up every 4 years, would you accept that?

Gas Bags
1st Jan 2011, 08:02
Lets put it in perspective:

If I join Virgin today with a 737NG licence I will get paid a base rate of $117,572 a year.

If I join QF today with a 737NG licence I will get paid a base rate of $87,595 a year. With no training by either company it would take me 5 grade jumps, or twenty years at QF, for the salaries to equalise.

That is a difference of $29,977 a year for the first 4 year period = $119,908.
And a difference of $23,854 a year for the second four year period = $95,416.
And a difference of $17,750 a year for the third four year period = $71,000.
And a difference of $11,655 a year for the fourth four year period = $46,620.
And a difference of $5,532 a year for the fifth four year period = $22,128.

That brings the earning capacity difference over the twenty year period to $355,072.

Yes I would accept that.

GB

ALAEA Fed Sec
1st Jan 2011, 09:48
It is a serious question I ask, it may form part of the negotiations and needs to be considered by our committee.

It's not 5 levels difference though as you need to take into account the extra 2 hours per week that if worked by a Qantas LAME would be at double time, 4 hours pay, almost 10% extra. Your break even point may be 12 or 16 years depending on circumstances.

empire4
1st Jan 2011, 12:27
I agree with Gas Bags,

Steve, even 12 or 16 years is ridiculous. I think this needs to be spelled out to QF lames and they will see that mathematically being on the virgin system is much fairer and rewarding. Of course i think guys above the level will disagree.

I ask this Question; Is the responsibility any different for a lame signing with 1 month experience to one with 20 years?

ALAEA Fed Sec
1st Jan 2011, 19:48
Of course the responsibility is the same. The LAME with 20 years experience however will be more likely to identify the cause of a defect quicker and know what component to change but the question I asked was all about remuneration. If you intend to stay with one employer, you would need to take a long term view of it.

We could ask at the negotiation table for two systems to run side by side. eg. you could opt out of the old one and stay in a fixed rate system.

I'd hate to see a bunch of whingers 16 years down the track complaining that they have been overtaken by someone who stayed in the old.

Jet-A-One
1st Jan 2011, 20:57
An annualised salary at QF would go a long way to bridging the gap too.

Especially for the younger blokes that are trying to buy houses etc. Most banks won't consider your shift penalties under the QF system when it comes down to how much they will lend you.

It'd also be nice to be able to have the day off when I'm sick rather than draging myself in to save losing my penalties...

600ft-lb
2nd Jan 2011, 01:03
Steve
The current Qantas level/points system suits the guys in the system for 15-20 years already.
But the spread of highest level to lowest level is getting to be pretty huge. A majority of people are now level 9+ banging their heads on the level caps.

Level 4 to 9 for a newly licenced guy in Melbourne heavy maintenance for example is 20 years of service with no chance for other types ever and a relatively low shift penalty.

Opt in / Opt out I think is a good idea. The only ones who won't think its a good idea are the 9+'s. But I and many people I know aren't 9+ and would happily jump if it was possible.

The current system has fallen behind industry standards for someone with 1 or 2 types and less then 10-15 years in the EBA. It currently benefits guys working on the line who see all the types and have high shift penalty rates.

The Bungeyed Bandit
2nd Jan 2011, 01:27
Quote from 600 ft-lb

" It currently benefits guys working on the line who see all the types and have high shift penalty rates."

It also currently helps the guy at QF who is sitting on Grade 9 with only redundant licences and because he has been with the company pre 1994 attracts a 15% shift penalty for day shift. This guy can be working in the same crew along side someone who is a level or 2 lower but has 3 current dual licences, doesn't get the 15% shift loading and has to sign for this blokes work.

Now that's a 2 tiered system if ever I heard of one.

Unfortunately I think it's something we're going to have to put up with. Be careful what you wish for.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

LAME2
2nd Jan 2011, 04:45
It is Pre/Post 1997. Negotiated by the ACTU on behalf the combined QANTAS unions for EBA3.

It su**s but what can you do.

tech-line
2nd Jan 2011, 06:05
In my opinion money isn't everything, but it does help taking a lot of crap or getting through all lthe bullshite that occurs around the work place.
Who has the better terms and conditions those at VB/VT or QF?
30k is a lot of money difference but is there better conditions a QF?

Gen Y
2nd Jan 2011, 06:38
Scrap the whole wage structure and start over. A salary that includes all penalties and allowances that doesn't discriminate between pre or post July96 employees would be a good start!

Arnold E
2nd Jan 2011, 07:04
In my opinion money isn't everything,
And I notice your location "is under a rock" Quite clearly this is true.

It is, however, way above whatever is in second place.:ok:

empire4
2nd Jan 2011, 11:49
I think the best move forward is for a salary much the same as VT. A base of say 120K, 5-10K for each additional type and first class staff travel for engineers with 20+ years service.

QF has many more types than VB so a guy with 6 types would be 145K-170K.

Its a little bit of a joke that a level 8 LAME gets less money than a CSM, SO and some flight attendants i know. We also have a problem that the divide between licence and non-licence is too little.

Jet-A-One
2nd Jan 2011, 19:52
agree empire4

Gas Bags
4th Jan 2011, 05:14
On top of the wage difference between VB and QF, VB get 6 weeks annual leave per annum.

I think QF only get 5 weeks??? Can anyone confirm???

This is another substantial advantage at VB if the figures are correct.

GB

MELKBQF
4th Jan 2011, 05:44
VB do get 6 weeks leave but they dont accrue DILs.

Gas Bags
4th Jan 2011, 06:04
Thanks MELKBQF I was unaware of that.

What is a DIL and how are they accrued?

GB

Silverado
4th Jan 2011, 07:10
What is a DIL and how are they accrued?

Correct term is D.I.L.P.H.

Day In Lieu of Public Holiday.

If you work a public holiday you get the appropriate penalty rate, if you don't work it you get a DIL.

Or on rosters where you are paid an average penalty rate, half are in your pay and half accrued. (6 DIL per year).

BBJ flying spanner
5th Jan 2011, 06:50
Hello All,
Interesting discussion here as i sit in the back corner thinking of what used to be paradise in Perth!!
One thing to remember that everybody in our aviation world has a price and as we would like to think that we are all aviation professionals striving for the ultimate goal of a safety culture. Truth is we are not all equal and you only get what you pay for. If you invest wisely in your staff the company will reap the rewards however the cost of hi staff turnover due to low salaries i am sure will cost dearly in the long run.
Just a little food for thought.
Seasons greetings and safe aviating to all!:ok:

6680740
6th Jan 2011, 01:52
Hi Guys

Just noticed that the Avionics positions at Perth have been withdrawn......

Anyone know the reason

Thanks and wishing everyone a Happy New Year

600ft-lb
6th Jan 2011, 07:54
Maybe the local management realised they had enough AV guys to keep the chairs warm in winter:}

That or they realised they can get two mech guys and 4 times the work output for the price of 1:}

Anulus Filler
6th Jan 2011, 08:20
That or they realised they can get two mech guys and 4 times the work output for the price of 1

Maybe. But still only half the brains.:p

600ft-lb
6th Jan 2011, 10:46
Fed Sec , having been around and aware of the hughe increases your members got over other unionists , i can understand how uncomfortable you might feel . But the fact is your Association signed up to a long term deal , it might be uncomfortable for you now to acknowledge that , and for better or worse you are stuck with it . However , you might acknowledge how you shafte dother unions back then to get your deal , and if you feel so strongly maybe you could forgo a bit for the aircraft cleaners you so often rubbish.

If you knew anything, other unions benefited from the ALAEA securing a 5% pay increase. The AME's for example, all flavours were offered from the get go the same deal as the ALAEA with no pain at all.

I still don't know how one union can shaft another. The ALAEA didn't poach anyone and we didn't get a pay rise in lieu of anyone else. We were so far into an expired agreement - the tactic used by the previous management regime (who are literally all gone now for the damage they have done) to wear us down as a collective to accept a crap deal - that all of a sudden we find ourselves with an expired agreement... again.

Besides, this is a Perth Line Maintenance jobs thread, not a unionist1974
'backwheniwasaboymenweremen'. Get over it mate, your time is up, retire and enjoy your life instead of trolling internet forums.

Gas Bags
7th Jan 2011, 05:23
Methinks the sun hits the yard arm pretty early down at 1974's place!!

Long Bay Mauler
7th Jan 2011, 07:08
And that the ALAEA has so far been the only union recently standing up against de management and having a sucessful crack.And getting a few wins.

If the other unions didnt get more than 3% in their last EBA,its only got their own members to blame for not taking PIA like the LAMEs.

If you don't try,you will never ever know.

Plus Unionist1974,you sound like a windup merchant more than anything.

FCMC
12th Jan 2011, 08:51
Hello Kylie
My friends in PER say you have applied to go back.Cant be that bad eh!!!
Good Luck.:ok:

BLF Goon
12th Jan 2011, 09:53
I heard on the grape vine than an ex CNS lame that was forced out of the company back in 2007 has applied for the Perth position.

He failed to even get a letter of acknowledgement, even though he was one of the best engineers in CNS.

Maybee he didnt have the correct licences but im sure, 747 2/300 747-400+ER ,767-300+ZX, A330, A340, A320/321,737 3/400 & NG should be enough for an interview.

Obvoiusly he is still being blocked for employment.

Well done boys drive someone out of a job then do everything you can to make sure he doesnt work for any other airline not just Q!!:D:D:D:D

division1
12th Jan 2011, 10:50
Unfortunately for him, some managers still maintain their own buggery campaigns.
The man, DB?, was a great lame, something his manager never was or ever will be.

Gas Bags
12th Jan 2011, 18:27
Reading these couple of Qantas threads it sure seems like a bitter and treacherous place to work. I hope for you rsakes I am reading it wrong but whoa it does not look like it!

going down-under
13th Jan 2011, 09:13
Hi Gas Bags,

Can you imagine that I would beg for this position? :O

So many people, so many stories :)

Gas Bags
13th Jan 2011, 20:14
Mate, After reading these vitriolic threads and still stating that you would beg to work for and with these people you must be in a terrible place. I for one am glad that I have open eyes, foresight enough to see the world for what it is, and the gonads to up and out of a workplace if it even approaches what the QF front seems to be.

Seems to me that if the place drives people to do things like are suggested in these threads, they can keep it.

GB

600ft-lb
14th Jan 2011, 12:14
Its not that bad Gas Bags

Its just big company syndrome, the different sides just come with the territory.

Being the biggest employer in aviation in this country it is also the comparison point for how everyone else is getting remunerated.

Most other workplaces ride on the coat tails of what we go through to a certain extent.

And also like most big workplaces, its full of competitive competing sides that are always trying to outdo each other. The previous management regime created such a toxic relationship between the management and the workers that both sides have complete mistrust for each other.

The previous battle for a fair wage increase (ie in line with the inflation at the time) has left the workers with a bitter taste and the previous management regime who were hell bent on 'breaking' us, out of a job. So that from that what you will.

HARDNUT
17th Jan 2011, 01:03
Depending on which port you are in it's like chaulk and cheese. Dmm's/supervision have a major effect on your work life.
I really feel for the guys in FNQ!!!

BBJ flying spanner
1st Feb 2011, 22:20
Well i just got the call from the boys in the sand pit stating not only have i applied for QF Perth but am already chucking chocks:ugh: for the big red rat. Somebody knows something?
Lets not let the truth get in the way of a good rumour LOL:uhoh:

Gas Bags
2nd Feb 2011, 00:39
Well done Kylie....You only did your interview the end of last week. That was some fast work from the HR end. Can you afford the paycut???

Anulus Filler
2nd Feb 2011, 09:18
Well i just got the call from the boys in the sand pit stating not only have i applied for QF Perth but am already chucking chocks for the big red rat. Somebody knows something?
Lets not let the truth get in the way of a good rumour LOL

Well done Kylie!!! Apparently the blow up doll has arranged for your own channel for the radios. Can't wait for yr 1st AOG.:O

BBJ flying spanner
3rd Feb 2011, 13:53
Well guys its great to stay in touch with the local scene, it appears not much has changed. Hopefully we are all older and maybe a little wiser.
Does anybody have any interview questions like, when was the last time you were stressed, had a conflict, working with other cultures. I wonder if the questions have changed in the last 10 years LOL:rolleyes:

BBJ flying spanner
3rd Feb 2011, 14:08
Hi BLF Goon,
Thats sounds like a very sad tale of sour grapes. If the person you refer to has has an A & P i could open a few doors for him. If so ask him to send me and email or IM.
Its such a waste to see soooo much expensive training go to waste.:confused:
Cheers
Kylie