Recency DGCA question

[rahulred5]

Hi all

Quick question. According to DGCA flowchart it says within 6 months I need a 250nm day xc and a 120 nm night xc check.In note 2 it says for multi I just need the GFT + IR checks within 6 months. Now the question is can I do these 250 + 120nm xc checks on single eng or must I do this on a multi if I want the ME endorsement on my license ?
Also I have been flying with my students as CFI numerous cross countries ... I assume I cant count these towards my recency checks. Apart from the 15 hours pic of course.

[cyrilroy21]

No you cannot count the time flown with your students because these checks have to done with a flight instructor

You have to do it separately on the single and ME if you want them endorsed on your indian license

I have heard a rumor that the recency requirements have changed but have not been udated on the dgca website....

Anyone else care to confirm this :confused:

[kunaal]

@rahulred5
Most definitely you would have to fly them separately solo or under supervision depending on what your school rules are and what is most economical. If they dont allow a multi solo, then single engine cross country sounds like a better idea depending on which aircraft you want to have endorsed on your indian license

@cyrilroy21
Buddy they've been reforming the rules for quite sometime in my notice. As far as the updated news is, nobody has those. Lets just carry forward what's been published so far until further notice. Have you finished up the conversion exams yet?

[aditya104]

Want to add onto the above information:
When DGCA changes rules, they may update the relevant sections on the website but the flowchart will not be updated. It hasn't been updated since it was first posted. So, you are better-off not following the flowchart. Instead, read the relevant rules.:ok:

[rkc_9009]

@rahulred5

You dont have to do x-country checks on mulit. For getting a Multi endorsement all you need is atleast 10hrs of time on aircraft of which 5hrs day and 5hrs night. And the three tests, day and night gft and IR test. But just make sure that you finish all these tests on Multi after you are done with your CPL checkride, coz thats the only objection that dgca guys have these days.

[rahulred5]

Thanks for the info about the multi checks ... the DGCA conversion flowchart agrees with your statement. It shows under multi endorsement notes only about GFT and IR test. Thanks for helping me save a whole load of $$$

I have a final question ... does the GFT each have to be one hour ?

[rkc_9009]

it has to be a minimum of 48 mins of flight.

[superdunkaroos]

@rkc_9009

are you sure about the multi night requirements?

From what i heard it is 3 hours at night not including the general flight test.

[rkc_9009]

yea...am pretty sure abt that. atleast thats wat i was told in dgca.

[Pulkdahulk]

Rahul:

For someone who mentioned 3 hrs night requirement on Multi Engine must be using his understand I assume based on a person who just has an FAA CPL ME IR and no SE CPL IR or its respective add ons in a SE. So in the DGCA Conversion Chart, 5 hrs PIC with 10 Takeoff and Landings is acknowledged.

But Read the Document Carefully, Do you all see
NOTE 2: For Multi endorsement on CPL:

Anything before this relates to Single Engine Requirements because these rules were formulated in 2007 based on it. And then as you go past that Line [NOTE 2: For Multi endorsement on CPL: ], then comes those requirements.

So, If a License Holder has a SE CPL IR with ME ADD on, then he/she do not not need to meet the 5 hrs PIC by Night. Yes GFT at Night and IR will account for 2 hrs respectively. IR can be either Night or Day - Your choice.

Again I stress: There is no Night Requirement for ME CPL IR, if a candidate has SE CPL IR issued.

Rahul: You are a CFI, so I will give your CFI Requirements for Recency.
These are answers from Mr.Arvind Sardana as I have talked to him for more than 30 minutes about my Flight Instructor Requirements through contacts. Patiently, he explained to me what was required. For all whom do not know who is he, then Google it.

Okay - You can OFFICIALLY use your Cross Country which you have flown with your students for your Recency Requirements. The Ultimate PIC is the CFI and that document must word it this way such that it says PIC: Rohan...

Acknowledged by Chief Flight Instructor.

You have Questions, PM me the details and I will give you the exact sheet which I did.

Next, YOU have to Fly with an Instructor for GFT Day and Night with IR on both Multi and Single Engine. That means minimum 6 hrs.

Now lets get to the point: In Indian Aviation, you do not need to have your IR endorsed on Multi. If your IR is endorsed on Single, which means you do GFT Day/Night and IR Checks, and GFT Day/Night no IR on Multi, then you will get Indian CPL SE IR with Multi Endorsement.

Airlines do not care if your IR is on Single or Multi Endorsement. When you do your type Rating Check ride, you will get your endorsement automatically without having to submit documents to DGCA.

Also, Apart from that, no Cross Countries on ME Required, If done on Single, you are GOOD to go.

Next, whatever hours you have left after finishing GFT's, IF you have FLOWN as an INSTRUCTOR, you can use those hours to match your 15 HRS PIC Requirement.

Any Questions, PM me please

Thank you

[rahulred5]

wow thats very interesting and a pleasant surprise that I can use xc time when flying as a CFI with my students towards recency. IF all this is true the recency cost is far lower than i thought

[Pulkdahulk]

Rahul,

These information that is illustrated above is 100% correct.

Most information you get from people are CPL holders.

Their perspective is right. Unfortunately, we do not have many CFI holders that are applying to India for their License that can give us an Instructor Perspective as to how these hours apply and that is why speak directly to the Boss and get the right answer

I am showing you the right directions. As mentioned from the above post, if you have CPL SE IR with a ME ADD on IR, then again I stress no 5 hours Night PIC Requirement because it all relates to IR. As IR can be on a single or multi, as a CFI, you will meet those requirements if you do flying in a single engine eventually. Airlines do not need you to have a ME IR endorsement. They do not care. If single engine IR, you can still show up for Interview and be hired for a heavy body aircraft type.

Now if you have done MEI, Then your GFT Day already applies if your MEI is done within 6 months. Same applies to GFT Day for CFI Rating and GFT Night with IR on a CFII. Again 6 months.

Cheers

[superdunkaroos]

@pulka

The 5 or 3 hours night requirement that was mentioned is not the PIC requirement.
It is multi engine training requirement, you need 3 or 5(not sure which is correct) multi dual(training) hours for multi engine license.A few pilots applications got rejected and this was the reason given by DGCA ... 'give a break down of multi engine training hours and show the night training time'.

Also Rahul if you read the definition of solo by dgca it is 'Sole occupant of the aircraft' whereas most nations define solo as 'Sole manipulator of controls' i haven't heard anybody rejected on this basis but i was surprised to find this in the CAR's the other day.
Just plain stupid in my opinion.

[sam8808]

For getting a Multi endorsement all you need is atleast 10hrs of time on aircraft of which 5hrs day and 5hrs night.


Can someone please confirm the above requirement? Am I right in saying that the 5 hours night training requirement only applies to people who are applying for a fresh multi engine endorsement in India, and not to people who are converting their foreign licenses?

I hold an Australian CPL with multi engine command Instrument Rating. At no point during my training in Australia did I have to fly a multi engine aircraft at night. So the night training requirement doesn't make sense to me.

I'm currently in Australia finishing off my recency flying. Quick replies would be very much appreciated.

[AviatorHere]

I feel fortunate that I found this thread at the most appropriate time.

I am here in US for my recency and I have some questions regarding the proper way to complete the DGCA requirements.

Here are the things as I understand from the conversion flowchart.

For Single Engine: GFT Day and Night are to be done with the instructor (48min each as mentioned in this thread before).
But the flowchart also states that I need 3 "solo" take offs and landings.
So, am I required to do the solo TO/LNDGs separately and get a certificate from my instructor for that?

Can I log some instrument time with my instructor during the GFTs? (as part of the 5 hours instrument time required for Instrument endorsement on DGCA CPL)


Also, I believe that the 120NM and 250NM cross country "tests" are to be performed with the instructor, am I right?

I know these are some of the basic things but I have no one to ask here, I will be grateful if you guy can correct me if I am wrong in my understanding of the DGCA requirements.

One more question, can I log some instrument time during the cross country tests?

I have already done a 120NM cross country with my instructor and I am scheduled to do the 250NM flight tomorrow with her.

[sam8808]

All of your questions have been answered many times on pprune before. I've tried to help you anyway.


For Single Engine: GFT Day and Night are to be done with the instructor (48min each as mentioned in this thread before).
But the flowchart also states that I need 3 "solo" take offs and landings.
So, am I required to do the solo TO/LNDGs separately and get a certificate from my instructor for that?


As far as I understand things, you're supposed to log your GFT as In Command Under Supervision or ICUS. Not sure how it is in the US but in I'm allowed to do that in Australia.

The 3 solo take offs and landings are supposed to be a part of the GFT. All in one flight. By asking for 3 "solo" take offs and landings DGCA are actually saying that you have to be in command of the aircraft for a minimum of 3 take offs and landings. If you log your GFT as ICUS, it means that you were in command of the aircraft throughout your GFT flight, while being supervised by the instructor. Which is obviously how a test works.

Hope that makes sense.

Can I log some instrument time with my instructor during the GFTs? (as part of the 5 hours instrument time required for Instrument endorsement on DGCA CPL)


Not 100% sure on this one. But not a sensible thing to do. GFTs aren't long enough for you to have time to long instrument time. All you do is circuits and training area stuff. Where is the space for instrument flying?


I believe that the 120NM and 250NM cross country "tests" are to be performed with the instructor, am I right?


Tests obviously have to be flown with an instructor.

One more question, can I log some instrument time during the cross country tests?


This is much better idea compared to logging instrument time on your GFTs.

[sam8808]

Anyone with an answer to my question?

[AviatorHere]

Thanks sam8808, that was really helpful.

From next time, I will make sure to search for answers elsewhere in this forum before posting.

[flylikeaBE76]

Thanks for posting all that info. Another question -
Do I need to do a separate flight for an IR check? Is that required on both the single and multi? I know for the multi it says 2 approaches, but can I combine that with say - X-C test by night? Also, do I have to fill up the form that says Pilot Profiency Check/IR check and tick only 2 approaches on the multi appropriate on that form? I ask since there are lot of other stuff on that form.

[sam8808]

Do I need to do a separate flight for an IR check? I know for the multi it says 2 approaches, but can I combine that with say - X-C test by night?


I'm pretty sure the IR check can't be combined with with X-C night check. For example, do you think you'll be allowed to do your IR check ride and CPL check ride in one flight in the US? Nope.


Is that required on both the single and multi?


Depends on whether you want a single engine IR or a multi engine IR in India. Multi IR is the safest bet in my opinion. So 2 approaches on a twin would do it.

In my case I'm trying to be on the safer side. I'm renewing my Australian IR so that DGCA will have no reason to refuse my application.


Also, do I have to fill up the form that says Pilot Profiency Check/IR check and tick only 2 approaches on the multi appropriate on that form? I ask since there are lot of other stuff on that form.


Just tick the options that are applicable to you. And remember to print the form on your flying school's letterhead.

Good luck :ok:

[smurf84]

I beg to differ. It isn't mandatory to print the IR check form on the school's letter head.

[bayblade]

@sam
there is no such 5 hrs day/night requirement.
for me all you need is
*mininmum 3 hrs skill test that includes- day check, night check and IR check
*minimum 10 hrs of training on the same type of a/c. (this includes your tests)

for recency the 3 hrs for skill tests is all thats required.

[sam8808]

Thats a relief. Thanks bayblade

[bayblade]

how do we send dgca the verification of the cpl, medical and the training institute?
is it some on some email id? or by post/fax?
also how do we obtain verification of training institute and medical?

[nevergiveup27]

Babyblade: Verification of FAA License can be acquired from FAA website under Airmen certification - Verification of Airmen Certificate.Shoot them an email with required information and they will Fax/email you the copy of it.

For verification of Flying Institute contact your CFI and they will email you a copy of Air Agency Certificate issued to them by FAA.

As for the medical I have no Idea as I didn't submit that, But you can contact FAA and they will be able to help you with that. :ok:

[bayblade]

thanks.
:)

[flylikeaBE76]

Which form do I use for the Skill Test by Day/Night for the multi? Can someone confirm that it is the CA-40B(non-jet aeroplanes above 1500kg) ?
Also, my IR check duration on the multi is 0.8(48min) with 2 approaches as reqd by DGCA. That shouldn't be an issue and meets the minimums(which is 45min), correct?

Thanks in Advance.

[sam8808]

Yup that sounds like the right form. Not sure about your other question.

[bayblade]

your day/night checks can be done on CA-40 but i don't think there should be a problem if you have it on the letterhead of your school.
i quite clearly remember d.c. Sharma saying that IR check should be of 1 hrs atleast, don't panic i am quite sure these chaps don't remember their own words.

[AviatorHere]

Hi friends, I have the following questions regarding logging of flight time in Indian logbook format. I tried searching for answers on this forum but was unable to come across anything.

For Commercial requirements (on Single engine A/C):
1) Should I log GFTs as Dual or PIC?

2) Should I log cross-country checks as PIC or Dual?

3) If I can log the above two as PIC in a Single Engine aircraft, can I write them as solo (column no 2 & 4) in Form CA39?

4) I have done majority of my instrument time during the cross country checks (towards the 5hrs Instrument requirement). Do you think there should be a problem?

5) If a cross country consist of three legs with one leg shorter than 100NM (eg. 113-45-127NM). Can I log the whole flight time as cross country time?


For Multi Endorsement requirements:
1) Should I log GFTs as PIC or p1(U/S)? And can those hours be counted towards the 15hours recency requirement of DGCA?

2) Should I log the IR Check on Multi as PIC or Dual(U/T)?

3) Has anybody here been able to convert their license with less than 1hr of GFT or IR?


If you know the answers to my questions I will really appreciate your help in this matter. Thank you for your time.

[flylikeaBE76]

For commercial requirements (on Single engine AC):
1) PIC
2) PIC
3) Yes
4) No
5) No, only legs >100NM

For Multi endorsement requirements:

1) P1(U/S) and Yes
2) PIC
3) Yes, min of 45min, at least 0.8

[AviatorHere]

Thanks a lot for your quick reply, flylikeaBE76. That clears many worries and doubts.:ok:

I tried calling DGCA today before asking here, but was just redirected from one official to another.

[pranit]

hi guys
i had got my cpl ME -IR due to immense difficulty ! now in sept my ir on multi is lapsing . basically i have been left with the daunting task of maintaining currency on my licence.

if anyone could suggest
1. how to go bout it ?
2. since my ir is still valid how many hours must i do to keep my ir current.
(since everything else is valid on my licence
cpl ,single &multi engine endorsement till late 2015 .

3. now what if i do my ir recency on a single engine ? how will that come out in terms of jobs eligibility ? since i hav heard and seen tht airlines want licences to be valid at the time of joining ?
and indigo wants ME- IR to be valid at time of evn appearing for exams?
is this true ?
4. the only plus point i thnk for doing my IR recency on multi is that it will help only if a get a job on pa 34 in the future ?

5. does any one any good , straight forward school who would do multi recency asap ?

thnks

[Mannnnan]

Hi all

Quick question. According to DGCA flowchart it says within 6 months I need a 250nm day xc and a 120 nm night xc check.In note 2 it says for multi I just need the GFT + IR checks within 6 months. Now the question is can I do these 250 + 120nm xc checks on single eng or must I do this on a multi if I want the ME endorsement on my license ?
Also I have been flying with my students as CFI numerous cross countries ... I assume I cant count these towards my recency checks. Apart from the 15 hours pic of course.
I wanted to know if 0.8 is enough for multi GFT