Welcome Home Boys - Well Done

[albatross]

Do not know if this is true or not - a friend, whom I trust, sent it to me - fun read anyhow.
"
> As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan, I witnessed the
> following:
>
> When we were on our way back from Afghanistan, we flew out of Baghram
> Air Field. We went through customs at BAF, full body scanners (no
> groping), had all of our bags searched, the whole nine yards.
> Our first stop was Shannon, Ireland to refuel. After that, we had to
> stop at Indianapolis, Indiana to drop off about 100 folks from the
> Indiana National Guard. That's where the stupid started.
>
> First, everyone was forced to get off the plane-even though the plane
> wasn't refueling again. All 330 people got off that plane, rather than
> let the 100 people from the ING get off. We were filed from the plane to
> a holding area. No vending machines, no means of escape. Only a
> male/female latrine.
>
> It's probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying weapons.
> Everyone was carrying an M4 Carbine (rifle) and some, like me, were also
> carrying an M9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240B machine guns. Of
> course, the weapons weren't loaded. And we had been cleared of all ammo
> well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then AGAIN at customs.
>
> The TSA personnel at the airport seriously considered making us unload
> all of the baggage from the SECURE cargo hold to have it reinspected.
> Keep in mind, this cargo had been unpacked, inspected piece by piece by
> U.S. Customs officials, resealed and had bomb-sniffing dogs give it a
> one-hour run through. After two hours of sitting in this holding area,
> the TSA decided not to reinspect our Cargo-just to inspect us again:
> Soldiers on the way home from war, who had already been inspected,
> re-inspected and kept in a SECURE holding area for 2 hours. Ok, whatever.
> So we lined up to go through security AGAIN.
>
> This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us were
> carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also carrying
> pistols.
>
> So we're in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers had
> his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous, but it
> gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets and has a
> pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the Soldier that
> they're going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went
> something like this:
>
> TSA Guy: You can't take those on the plane.
>
> Soldier: What? I've had them since we left country.
>
> TSA Guy: You're not suppose to have them.
>
> Soldier: Why?
>
> TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.
>
> Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a
> weapon. And I'm allowed to take it on.
>
> TSA Guy: Yeah but you can't use it to take over the plane. You don't
> have bullets.
>
> Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?
>
> TSA Guy: [awkward silence]
>
> Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get
> out of here. I'll buy you a new set.
>
> Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]
>
> To top it off, the TSA demanded we all be swabbed for "explosive
> residue" detection. Everyone failed, [go figure, we just came home from
> a war zone], because we tested positive for "Gun Powder Residue". Who
> is hiring these people?
>
> This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233
> people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and machine
> guns-but nothing that could have been used as a weapon.
>
> Can someone please tell me What happened to OUR country while
> we were gone?
>
> Sgt. Mad Dog Tracy
>
>
> This is my personal note to add: It should be kept in mind that although
> these men carried weapons with no ammo, they are trained to use those
> weapons in hand to hand combat so it would have been real easy to take
> over that plane, or at least beat the lovingcrap out of anyone that tried
> to do it with a pair of nail clippers."

[Neptunus Rex]

I am totally amazed that even a cretin from TSA could demand the nail clippers from a combat-trained soldier, who is as fit as a butcher's dog, is on his way home after months of deprivation and being targeted by some really nasty folks, is tired and grumpy after his flight has been needlessly delayed, has testosterone coming out of his armpits and has a 3 feet long metal club in his hands. The TSA idiot was lucky to survive the encounter.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Seen it elsewhere... It's most probably an "internet fantasy"... But then again, it wouldn't surprise anyone...

[Laarbruch72]

If you think all of that's bad, apparently they're refusing to serve Marines in Starbucks as well.
:hmm:

[MrBernoulli]

... apparently they're refusing to serve Marines in Starbucks as well. Another internet myth.

snopes.com: Starbucks Refuses Marines (http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/starbucks.asp)

The trouble with this 'instant comms' stuff is that made-up, infantile crap gets multiplied and transmitted round the world in seconds. It is exacerbated by a generation of folk who, growing up in an age of e-mail, texting, mobile phones and the pointess Tw1tter, 4acebook, Chumps Reunited and similar nonsense, believe everything they see on the internet. :rolleyes:

(My link above may even be a counter-rumour - shock horror, gasp!)

[WhoAreYa]

Was involved in a similar incident a few years back whilst serving on LXX sqn as an ALM.

Civi airport somewhere during 2nd gulf war, crew is obviously carrying 9mm pistols, aircrew knifes and the usual array of bits and bobs.

Walk up to the crew check in gate and are instructed to put all our weapons in a little plastic tray before we pass through the metal detector machine thingy. Proceed to walk through machine, given a pat down my security and then handed back our weapons, knifes etc.

WTF was that all about, lol.

[Laarbruch72]

Another internet myth.


That was my point. I thought that the Starbucks myth was infamous enough to carry the joke, but I'll try to be less subtle next time.

[noprobs]

Long before the post-9/11 paranoia, I once came back from foggy Sarajevo with a few of my team, grabbing a lift on the first passing RAF Hercules. While waiting around at the airport for 24 hours or so waiting for such an aircraft, I did get a photo of me passing through the metal detector arch in muddy DPM kit, with a pistol on my belt and rifle in hand. The RAF mover at Sarajevo accepted all my ammunition, which I hoped would minimise subsequent problems. However, on approaching UK, Lyneham fogged out, so Brize was the next plan. Unfortunately, this too closed before we got there, so we headed for Manchester, along with most of the civil traffic that had been bound for the south of England. At Manchester, we were parked in a distant corner, never saw any customs or security, but got a lift to the terminal. Fortunately, I had a big old aircrew holdall that was long enough for my rifle to go inside it, with my pistol under my coat. We then set about trying to get transport to our various end destinations, in the thickening fog, late at night, and competing with Heathrow refugees for hire cars. During this, we became separated, and the airport police started to be aware of armed men in the terminal. At one stage, they actually approached me and asked if I had seen any armed men, not noticing that I was one of them. I of course directed them to the other end of the terminal while I secured the last car for my onward journey.

In retrospect, this is quite amusing, but after 36 hours of travel at the time and further adventure yet to come, it was all a bit fraught.

[Melchett01]

As they say in the land of the free "no good having common sense, if you've got rules!"

On one of my more interesting jobs a few years back, I had to get from Basrah to Kandahar in short order. Managed to hitch a lift on a flight leaving at early o'clock and was pretty much the only one on board. Walked up to the check in desk carrying rifle, pistol and enough ammo to see you right in Moss Side on a Saturday night only to be asked by the straight faced and deadly serious RAF copper "are you carrying any weapons sir?"

So I had a rummage round and handed in my pen knife which I had in my pocket :} Don't think he saw the funny side of it.

[Cows getting bigger]

I certainly had to put a rifle through the x-ray machine at Lyneham on return from a long det. I couldn't be bothered arguing with Plod.

[kharmael]

A rifle for shooting others and a pistol presumably to shoot himself, either when he ran out of 5.56 or when stuck in a room with someone intolerable?

[Two's in]

A rifle for shooting others and a pistol presumably to shoot himself, either when he ran out of 5.56 or when stuck in a room with someone intolerable?

Melchett strikes me as the sort of person who keeps a weapon handy, just on the off chance of running into an internet troll...

[BEagle]

These silly rumours spread ever more quickly these days, thanks to the Internet and those farsebook and Twatter things.

Remember the rumour that McDonald's funded the Irish Republican Army? That caused all sorts of harumphing, but the truth was that when
McDonald's first came to the UK in the 1970s, the payslips they used for UK staff were imported from the USA. These included printed reference to the American equivalent to National Insurance pension contributions - the 'Individual Retirement Account' - or 'IRA' for short.....

:\

[teeteringhead]

At the risk of being accused of mover-baiting (:cool: moi?), many moons ago I had delivered the command spare Wessex from Sharjah to the SAR Flt at Muharraq, and had to get an Argosy back (I told you it was a long time ago!).

Didn't have much more than what I stood up in, ie flying kit including an LSJ (Mae West). Following exchange ensues:

Mover: "What's that" - pointing to LSJ

Fg Off Teeters: "Er, an LSJ" :confused:

Mover: "No, no - what's that" - pointing to red knob and gas bottle

Fg Off Teeters: "That's what I pull to inflate LSJ - is CO2 cylinder"

Mover: (Triumphantly): "Aha - compressed gas - DAC (Dangerous Air Cargo) - you can't take that on a passenger flight ......." :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Flung LSJ to SAR mate seeing me off ............

[floppyjock]

When flying out to Canada to fly on the Gazelle det at BATUS. The RAF wouldnt let us take our LCJ's on board as they were classed as "dangerous air cargo". wouldnt even have them packaged up in the hold. So why do we have to wear them when we fly. What a bunch of T**ts.

[Pontius Navigator]

As they say in the land of the free "no good having common sense, if you've got rules!":ugh:
Trouble is, Oz is going the same way!:=

Nah, they were there back in '73. Probably thought it would be fun taking the piss out of stuck up pommey aircrew.

[Motleycallsign]

Really Annoyed - Have you read JSP800 Vol 4a or IATA DG Regs re UN Class 1.4s goods?

[davejb]

Melchett01,
happy Christmas,
hope the troll implodes as a special christmas pressie.
Dave

[EdSett100]

The key to all this bollocks is the word, "passenger". Once you declare to the movers that you are a passenger, you lose any control of your destiny. You become an object destined to be f***ed over from dawn to dusk. This is despite the fact that you might even be the sqn cdr of the captain of the aircraft. However....

If you pitch up at the terminal and tell the movers (or phone ahead) that you are "crew" of "Ascot xxxx", you are treated (well, you're not treated, to be honest, because they are not in charge of you) differently. Don't ask them for MT, though. You are crew.

Example: earlier this decade 2 Nimrod crews and a section of NLS groundcrew and a few other NFU guys arrived at BZN from the Middle East on AT. Kinloss was sending 2 Nimrods (yes, we had some then) to pick up the Nimrod people and take us home, via a bit of crew training en route north. I was on one of the crews off the AT. I knew 2 of the NFU guys and I suggested to my captain that he inform the BZN movers that our crew, the NLS people and the 2 NFU guys were "crew on Nimrod callsign "***** on an intermediate landing during a training mission". The movers, not surprisingly, were not interested in us and gave the captain a tel no for BZN ops. The other Nimrod crew used the words, "passengers on Nimrod callsign xxxx " coming from/going to Kinloss." From that moment on that crew and the crew of their Nimrod taxi, lost any control of what they were doing. Their Nimrod was directed by ATC to the front of the terminal and the movers insisted that all engines were shut down "to enable the safe embarkation of the pax, in the absence of any Movement SOPs". This led to a T/R servicing. Fortunately there were NLS guys able to do it. That Nimrod was on the ground for 2 hrs. Our Nimrod went to an operational dispersal, kept 2 engines running while we arrived there on MT organised by BZN Ops and we took off after minimum brake cooling time (45 mins).

The bottom line for all you aircrew/aircraft groundcrew out there: do not declare yourself as a passenger if you can help it. Contact the Opcon of the aircraft you're flying on and try to get yourself on the auth sheet as "crew". Life becomes so much easier. I know that AT orders place limits on max crew, but the Nimrod never had a max crew limit (well, 26, but that was max POB).

Merry Christmas

Ed

[Mr C Hinecap]

The RAF wouldnt let us take our LCJ's on board as they were classed as "dangerous air cargo". wouldnt even have them packaged up in the hold. So why do we have to wear them when we fly. What a bunch of T**ts.

Floppy - you arrogant, ignorant w*****. I suggest you go away, educate yourself, understand IATA, DAC and other such relevant regulations, then come back and stop throwing poo around like a pregnant chimp. You are wrong, they were right. If you're not driving, sit down and shut up.

[davejb]

Well,
that seems like a fairly unambiguous statement...
In the meantime a Happy Christmas to anyone who knows me, if only through this ever entertaining website <g>


LCJ:

LCJ is a three letter acronym which can refer to:

ThLCJ is a three letter acronym which can refer to:

The Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Lord_Chief_Justice_of_England_and_Wales)
The three letter IATA code (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/IATA_airport_code) for Łódź Władysław Reymont Airport (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/%C5%81%C3%B3d%C5%BA_W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Reymont_Airport) in Poland (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Poland).e Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Lord_Chief_Justice_of_England_and_Wales)
The three letter IATA code (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/IATA_airport_code) for Łódź Władysław Reymont Airport (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/%C5%81%C3%B3d%C5%BA_W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Reymont_Airport) in Poland (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Poland).

Serves you right for trying to smuggle assorted Judges into Canadia!

Dave
Ho Ho Ho

[Sven Sixtoo]

Well, if we are going to dig into IATA and suchlike civvie stuff ...

I once delivered a Sea King from A to B in the UK, and boarded a civvie flight to get home, with my flying kit in hold baggage, and the LSJ in hand baggage.

At check-in:

BA employee: "Do you have any of these prohibited goods?" - shows list including radio transmitters, compressed gases, explosives, firearms.

Me: "Yes, all of them I think"

BA Employee: "Thank you sir, you are departing from Gate 5 which will open at XX. Have a pleasant flight."

I have never figured out whether she was thick as mince or having a really good attack of commonsense.

Sven
still seeking employment

[L J R]

I knew an F-16 driver (a Guard dude), who flew on weekends......He was a 747 captain for his proper job during the week.....On weekends he flew his Block 50 (with a nice 'six-pack') on CAP over NY, NY. As airline captain - in the 4-bar white shirt, was stopped at security and forced to hand his clippers in....Not sure how they could have contributed to the illegal take-over of his aircraft....Hs comments were that if he wanted to bring an airliner down, maybe the six packed Block 50 may have been more productive.:ugh:

[davejb]

Commonsense has two basic problem areas,
1 - People often do not have a surfeit of sense.
2 - When sense is available, it is seldom common that it should be so.

To be absolutelively honest, if you are a basic wage chimp with a rulebook to follow, then deviating from the rulebook simply because of commonsense is probably not a survival trait. Look at it this way, for those of us who are genuinely paid to think then going through security at a modern western airport affords us a modicum of amusement while we gnash our teeth at the restrictions.

I did, at Gatwick, heading for my Orlando flight with wife and kids once point out very politely that whilst I - a white, late middle aged family man with family in tow, dressed in chinos and a T shirt, had been stopped (shoes off) they had just let an obviously middle eastern man in his 30's walk through with his shoes still on and an anorak (in midsummer) tightly zipped up to his neck. I was told they had to be careful not to be seen to be racist....

I find the TSA folk to be less hassle than the Gatwick people myself, if we applied a degree of commonsense to these checks - bu**er sensibilities - then travel needn't be the pain in the butt it has been for the last decade. Profile the bad guys, and stop this incredibly slow scanning of everyone passing through... we really do NOT need to be scanning everyone.

Troops should be able to walk right through - if you don't trust the people who guard you, then all is already lost.

Dave

[floppyjock]

Mr H

I guess your a mover then. Snapping like a belt fed crocodile or what. Talk about jobsworth. :8 ROFL

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

I've had a similar thing at more than one European airport due to a non-issue and admittedly aggressive looking survival knife. Their reasoning for not being allowed it was that I could use it to hijack the aircraft.
My reasoning was that as aircraft captain it was unlikely I would need to hold a knife to my own neck if I decided to fly somewhere else.

[Easy Street]

Aha! Mr Hinecap, you must be the man to answer a question that arises every time I've taken a life preserver on RAF AT: which of these is the correct answer for LSJ packing according to IATA / JSP / whatever.....
Wrapped in thick polythene bag with CO2 bottle and flares removed; packed in hold within kitbag
Wrapped in thick polythene bag with CO2 fitted but flares removed; packed in hold within kitbag
Wrapped in thick polythene bag with CO2 and flares fitted, packed in hold within kitbag
As per 1, but taken out of kitbag at check-in and thick polythene bag removed ("not packed as per rules, sir"), placed into thin black bin bag, and instructed to hand to Loadmaster as carry-on item. Bin bag breaks whilst carrying across pan.
As per 2 but removed from kitbag and counted as separate item ("not allowed to put dangerous cargo in checked luggage")Those are just the combinations I can remember being ordered to comply with, there are many others but the detail escapes me! Is it any wonder that people don't respect Movers as a collective when their own rules are applied so inconsistently?

In case anyone thinks "trivia", the average Squipper probably spends a whole day at either end of a detachment preparing LSJs for transit, or putting them back together afterwards, and all of it probably unneccessary - a friendly Squipper told me that their understanding of the rules is that "3" is the answer, but they go through all the palaver of taking the bits and bobs out because the LSJs rarely get accepted in that condition. This now creates another problem... the flares, once removed from the LSJ, enter another category of DAC and need packing in special "ballistic" boxes to keep the Movers happy... money money money!

So, Mr Hinecap, if you could put the matter to rest I'm sure it would make a lot of Squippers very happy, and we could perhaps save some money as well? Perhaps you could put a GEMS in to Movements HQ and pocket some of the savings!

[ramp_up]

The problem here is arrogance or ignorance of the untrained. Hopefully with introduction of the new DG regs even those members of the aviation world who are soldiers’ first rather than professional aviators may understand the rules. As an SH mate, yes the rules are written for fixed wing guys and are not very flexible; however Floppy as a Gaz driver I doubt that you hold the knowledge or qualifications to determine what constitutes DG. Google civilian flight safety reports concerning DG and you might be shocked of the returns. As already mentioned if you ain’t operating it – “Sit down and shut up” or at least know the rules that you are breaking.

[floppyjock]

Easy Street :D

Well said. I had the same rules change every time.

So Im not the only one that does'nt " hold the knowledge or qualifications to determine what constitutes DG " Apparently neither do the movers.:hmm:

[STN Ramp Rat]

As someone who work’s close to this sort of flight and aware of the regulations they operate under and the IND operation it is almost certainly a myth. OPSEC means I can’t say why it would be a myth but it would be very difficult for it to be true and would have required several people to be so far away from SOP that there would have been an enquiry.