View Full Version : what's future with 500 jet flight hours?
alloverthesky87
22nd Dec 2010, 21:27
Hello pilot friends,
In your opinion, a low timer with 1000hours including 500hours on jet, can he find any job?
Thanks.
vserian
23rd Dec 2010, 07:58
Just search a bit hard bro, there are a lot of jobs for people with 500 hrs on a modern Jet.You have an advantage over the 250 hrs pilots.
In your recent post Indonesia for low timers, you say you have 500 hours and no jet....
Now you say you have 1000 hours and 500 jet? Odd..... Don't bother with EagleJet at Lion Air it will damage your CV not help it.
PT6A
pacrion
23rd Dec 2010, 12:55
PT6A are you sure? I want a proof...
Thinking of getting 500 as well, and maybe will have better CV than someone else. Tired of being unemployed. Dont mind if its RYR, SWA or LNI.
Please, stop posting "stupid" comments.
Cheers.
It will do more harm than good.... Because in the future a airline in Europe such as RYR or EZY will want to take you on as a junior pilot... They will want to do some kind of line training that is paid for... If you have the type and 500 hours you don't fit the bill... You also are no match for the guys applying for a DE FO position with 1000's on type.
Because of people like Eagle Jet, many airlines now are looking at 500 hours in an airline operating under JAA standards... Something Lion Air is not (they are blacklisted and just failed the IOSA audit with more than 500 findings)
So going there is not only bad for your CV but also a Heath hazard (source European Commision)
PT6A
pacrion
23rd Dec 2010, 16:37
You are completely true. We're talking about Indonesia, not any country in Europe. Unfortunately, our world is not equal everywhere; different society, social status, poverty, corruption. But things has to change someday. I wish all airlines could fly in Europe or wherever. I would think Lion Air and all those airlines banned could be allowed in the near future.
We are aware and we know the current situation. For that reason, we have to cope with and not ignore them.
And no, it wont be in the future its happening nowadays. You have to pay RYR and most of airlines if you want to join them. But what happens, because is Europe its well looked? Come on guys....We all of us came from the same mother.
Unfortunately it is not that simple.. It is engrained in their culture (bribery and corruption) I don't think it will change anytime soon.
Their DGCA had been present with the facts from the EU and asked to remove their AOC, it has not happened so just goes to prove why they should be on the ban list.
It's a sad state of affairs it really is... A throughly bad apple.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
23rd Dec 2010, 20:13
PTA6
would you like to explain why it's a problem to do 500 flight hours in Lion if I want to stay few years in Asia?
Do you think that I cann't find any job after line training in Lion Air?
Could you develope yoir idea?
Thanks
Lion won't keep you afterwards, why? Because they want you to leave and make room for the next guy who is paying. You get 500 hours or one year whichever comes first, don't believe it if Eagle Jet say you will stay longer.. You won't they are just after your money.
After Lion where do you go? Your still not a very experienced pilot, most expat jobs in Asia are for Captains.. those that are looking for first officers you will then be going up against guys with 1000+ on type from good airlines.
It is just a fact of the way the market is, save your money please listen!
It's a sad fact, but today if you want a good job you might need that money to get into easyJet etc.. (something which is also wrong, but nothing compared to the EagleJet / Lion Air deal)
Also save your money because you may be out of a flying job for a while even with a 737TR.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
23rd Dec 2010, 22:14
In my case, I have 500 flight hours on single engine.
Either I wait for, or I do a type rating.
In the first case, I will stay without fly for one year, may be two...without salary!!!
In the second case, I take the eagle jet program with one year, I will do about 800 hours on jet, and I will have 1300 flight hours including 800 on jet (Marvelous:eek:).
I think I will able to seek and find a job in south east asia or africa, that's my own opinion and friends airline pilots. In this precise case, in one year I build up my hours for my next job, and I can be hired in airline, and have a salary even if I have spent a lot of money!!!
Even if I have done my hours with Lion Air, you think I won't able to find a job?
Ever EagleJet pilot that I spoke to did not have a job once he had his 500 hours, some a year on still don't have a job.
Please don't think airlines will look on at you as an "experienced pilot" after the program... They won't. They will know you went to a failing airline with very poor standards and bought hours.
It really will not help you my friend.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
24th Dec 2010, 00:34
what's solution? Suicide?
BradPitt
24th Dec 2010, 04:01
"what's solution? Suicide?"
This is what you saying after doing CPL, what would you do after doing eagle jet program and no job!!! :ugh:
I would suggest, go Africa, this is the time they do hiring(Dec, Jan, Feb) You will be flying single engines and move up the ladder. But again its not cake walk, at times you might think that you are chasing your own tail, but better option than Suicide.
Good Luck:ok:
And no one said its easy.
Meathead Pilot
24th Dec 2010, 04:05
Or fly for MAF, you meet their requirements. Getting paid doesnt seem to be an issue for you. A couple of years of serving THE ALMIGHTY might get you a jet job.:}
alloverthesky87
24th Dec 2010, 10:20
Can I have a post of a pilot who have done a line training in Lion Air, his point of view?
southernskyz
25th Dec 2010, 01:29
*alloverthesky87,
After the 500 hours, the airline will possibly ask you to stay on,
as they're expanding and you'd already be company and aircraft inducted.
Other options available:
Apply for Garuda and other B737 operators in the region.
Apply for CX as a second officer and Dragonair.
*There were countless of job opportunities advertised on pilot employment
agencies looking for B737-300/800 pilots this year.
There were at least 40 jobs advertised.
It's still a slow down in the world economy but when things do pick up,
you'll be ahead of the competition, as aviation will also pick up.
*PT6A:
Quote: You said:
Please don't think airlines will look on at you as an "experienced pilot" after the program...
They won't. They will know you went to a failing airline with very poor standards and bought hours.
*PT6A, you know that at the end of the day, if a person is invited to attend an assessment
for screening with a new operator, that person will have to show to the operator what they can do?
**OKAY PT6A, what do you suggest and recommend that any person does?
**PT6A: what type of arcraft do you fly?
***alloverthesky87:You said:
Can I have a post of a pilot who have done a line training in Lion Air, his point of view?
***I hope someone can please answer this question??
Why not read over http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/432508-lion-air-734-off-runway-pontanak.html
And http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/424591-lion-air-eagle-jet-cae-p2f.html
If you need more information on this company contact the EU Commision, their files are very telling.
PT6A
southernskyz
25th Dec 2010, 06:01
PT6A,
Quote:
"If you need more information on this company contact the EU Commision, their files are very telling"
That was before... but you know that the EU has lifted their previous ban on Indonesian carriers,as the EU is satisfied the safety requirements are being met.
Garuda is flying to Europe.
Those articles are old news.
How many EU carriers were also involved in accidents and incidents this year?
None?
Bull****!
My point:
If someone does the 500 hour line flying with "Lionair".
After the 500 hours line flying, if a person is invited for an assessment
with a new carrier.
That person will have to demonstrate in the sim check what they're
capable of doing?
The line flying will help a person to progress to any aircraft with any
operator in the future, as they're experienced to operate in a multi crew
all weather new generation aircraft.
There might be an economic slow down now, but aviation will pick up
again and so will jobs!
Southern please do get yur facts correct, the EU has not lifted the ban on Indonesia.. Certain airlines have had it lifted. Lion is not one of them, 2 months ago they were audited and over 500 violations found.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ban/doc/list_en.pdf
PT6A
alloverthesky87
25th Dec 2010, 16:26
ok, my friends, both points of view are interesting and understanding, but understood me, one side, go ahead, second side, get away!!!
What do I do?
If I want to stay few years in south east asia, Line training can be a good solution? I needn't a good crm like air france or lufthansa, that's for beginning!!!
southernskyz
25th Dec 2010, 22:58
alloverthesky87,
Eaglejet's latest updated website is offering the 500 hour programme
with a 12 month guaranteed paid employment.
That's at least 1400 hours B737NG F/O jet time over an 18 month period.
*alloverthesky87,
I doubt that you have 1000 hours total time and 500 hours jet time at the
moment, you're just gazing into a fortune tellers crystal ball.
Apart from the looking into the future, you got have the US$60K available.
The EJ programme has become quite attractive than ever before and a B738 is still a B738 whether it's in Europe or asia, it's still the same aircraft and flys the same!
alloverthesky87
26th Dec 2010, 00:58
So, in your opinion, that's a good offer? even if the best ever program? But why you tell me about 60000k$, the program cost is 26000k$?
southernskyz
26th Dec 2010, 01:32
It's a good offer because it's the first time EJ have advertised
"+12 months guaranteed employment", after the 500 hours line flying.
It's better than paying $35k for 300 to 500 hours for an A320 programme.
From what i can see, after the 18 month period, it's a simple step to
convert to an A320 or any other aircraft, because a person has got
a jet flying background and they'd be quite competent.
**$60K..
*$26K for a B738/9 type rating simulator only and signed off, with travel, accomodation
and meals taken into consideration over a 5 week period.
*$26K for the 500 hour line programme.
**$10K to live off in Indonesia over the 6 month line flying programme.
Total cost $60K to $USD65K.
It could take you a 2 to 3 years to save the money but this is another
alternative.
If a person doesn't like it, then they should try and get into the airlines
in their country via the normal route! (Instructing,charter,military,cadet).
The other option is to go to Indonesia and try and get into an airline.
**The key factors with all this, are having a type rating and being cashed up
with money, to be able to live off for a period of time and having some money
in the bank when a person returns home.
*My understanding is the 12 month employment period, is paid employment.
captainsuperstorm
26th Dec 2010, 02:10
so join them... come back on Pprune in 12 months and tell us how good it was!
just waiting for a good laugh guys?
southernskyz
26th Dec 2010, 04:01
captainsuperstorm,
I read one of your other posts, where you're predicting the world
aviation economy will pick up by 2020?
Very intelligent Captain.
Can you predict the next world financial crisis? No you can't!
The EJ B738 programme is what's available outside a person's own country.
Say something constructive Or give the guy a job!
You cannot do either!
Except dribble from your mouth as with other posts!!!
It's very unlikely that any Captain has a callsign as yours!
punk666
26th Dec 2010, 08:42
PT6A
Some of your facts are wrong especially Lion Air kiking you out after 500 hours....The contract is 500 hours minimum and 12 months form day you start flying. Lion pilots fly from 80-110 hours per month so do you think they will kick you out after 6 months? I dont think so!
Lion have more planes than crew so I dont think they will be kicking you out any time soon.
A few CAE and EJ guys have just join Garuda after turning down the employment offer by Lion once they received 500 hours.
Alot of people seem to think the EU is the bollocks to work in but infact its the opposite....Your over taxed, you have stupid rules and regulations to follow from health and safety (assement done on a light switch in your office is a good example) and its just full of bureaucracy.
You get stressed out before you even get to the plane by traffic and then through security which have **** for brains half the time.
The EU is one place in the whole world so dont think everyone follows the same mentality, which by the way I find quite funny becaue its usually only the people who dont get out much seem to think it does.
Indonesia is totally different to the EU so they dont follow western world rules! Also the fact that their in so much poverty they cant afford to have Radar and all the fancy gagets most of the EU have.
Health and Safety in Indonesia doesnt exist because they are not worried about getting sued because the poor giy is lucky to even have a job, plus the value of life in poverty run countries cost nothing.
On the other hand if Lion do want EU recognition then they will have to jump through the hoops and not use there usual way of paying someone off to get the job done.
PT6A do you honestly think it will destroy your CV? Have you ever heard of the saying "**** in = **** out" well thats the same with these p2f schemes. If you have a well trained pilot who just needs hours and he then goes for 500 hours then he will get what he wanted and when the job market looks better he will get employment.....if you have a pilot who isnt so good and just thinks money will get him where he needs to be then his chances are alot less.
The airlines dont care who you worked for they just want to see if you met the requirements and that you can pass the assement...Do you honestly think they will say well ok this guy passed our assesment with no problems, hes a good guy but WAIT!!! He flew for a carrier who is banned in the EU ok then lets not give him the job...Get real man it doesnt work like that.
If you honestly think the EU is the place to work then go ahead my friend but soon planes will be dropping out of the sky beause the lack of safety.
Due to MX cost being so high in the EU the airlines now take there planes to eastern european countries where B1 license get given to the guy than him taking years to obtain it. There is less paper work in these countries because most dont fill them out or it just gets lost with the others.
The airlines have now took on the mentality dont fix it unless its broken, where as before it was "ok this will obviously break within the next 100 hours lets change it now". Coming from a family who is in aviation is most sectors pilots and MX its shocking some of the stories you hear about that involve well known EU carriers.
alloverthesky87
26th Dec 2010, 10:16
great, several points of view.
I think that this thread will be able to very good if we have some feedbacks?
training wheels
27th Dec 2010, 10:25
.... interesting post punk666. That probably explains why I saw a young bule (westener) pilot with 2 bars in a Garuda uniform at Surabaya airport yesterday. I couldn't believe my eyes after I saw his Garuda aircrew ID. He's obviously moved on from Lion Air.
Merpati also has about 20 foreigners about to start a Boeing 737 type rating course through a self-payment scheme and so too Sriwijaya. From what I hear, it's a very much less than what Eagle Jet/Lion Air are charging.
KLM have cadet pilots at Garuda and KLM TRE's.
Also several agencies are recruiting both Captains and First Officers for Garuda.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
27th Dec 2010, 10:54
what are the minimum requirements for merparti and garuda? just type rating?
GA,
ATPL
2000+ TT
1000+ Jet
500+ 737NG
Current on type within 90 days
alloverthesky87
27th Dec 2010, 11:17
I thinj you understand the case of a lot of pilot, the subject of topic is people who haven't a lot of hours... And i want to be advised in this case...
Their minimums are as I stated above for expat pilotsvwith the exception of KLM cadets.
Just look at the adverts on the net all the info is there.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
27th Dec 2010, 15:22
Yes, i know, same requirements than vietnam or others.
But it's not my case.
I would like to have advises and point of view of people who have done a line training in indo or others in asia.
Thanks.:eek:
I'm trying to help you.... To not waste your money.. You may get lucky but many people think that and don't.
After your 500 hours in the EagleJet program, there really is nothing out there for your level.
You have seen this yourself as you mention VAC etc.
What licence do you have and where do you want to fly in the future?
PT6A
alloverthesky87
27th Dec 2010, 16:23
cpl ir mep and as soon as 250 flight hours as tug pilot. I want to live in south east asia, thailande, or bali, or vietnam, hong kong
What state issued your licence and what passport do you hold.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
27th Dec 2010, 17:00
JAA licence and I am french
training wheels
27th Dec 2010, 21:56
KLM have cadet pilots at Garuda and KLM TRE's.
I'm friends with a few local Garuda pilots and quite frankly, I've never heard of KLM having cadet pilots with Garuda. Where did you get this from or did you make it up? Are you flying in the region?
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 09:25
PT6, no response?
Why these questions?
Sorry, I was out flying for a living!
KLM pilots being there is a well known fact, actually reported on this website also.
I asked about your licence and passport to see where you would be best trying, as all of the places you mentioned in your post you have the added hoops of not being able to legally work there or having their licence without going through additional processes.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 14:28
If I will stay in Indonesia, for several years, Lion will be able to a good solution ?Pt6
It is not easy for you to stay there.. Because your licence can be validated for a max of two years.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 15:27
thus in your opinion, any solution in Indonesia, however there are a lot of people who have a different opinion.
Could describe your career?
Do you live in Indonesia?
No it's not my opinion it's the rules of the DGCA (Indonesia)
PT6A
Cadet - FO - Capt - Training Capt.
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 15:49
But your are in Indonesia?
I had been there n a wet lease so I'm well aware of how things work there (or don't)
Work your hardest to get a job in Europe I promise you in the long run you will be better off.
Keep the money in your pocket for now, or you could end up like the guy in the thread you commented on today... Getting one type rating then the airline needing another... Then you will be out of pocket and still needing to pay to get a Job.
I have lost count of the amount of guys I have met that have been promised a job if they just pay for the type, and then are out of work!
I met many of the EJ pilots on Indonesia, so I got the information from them first hand.
PT6A
training wheels
28th Dec 2010, 16:06
KLM pilots being there is a well known fact, actually reported on this website also.
If it's a well known fact and reported here, then show us the proof. I was talking to a Garuda pilot a few months ago and he categorically said they had no foreign pilots there. I understand since that conversation, Garuda has started hiring foreigners, but cadets for KLM?? I never heard of that 'well known fact' as you call it. I'd be happy to be proven wrong...
Give me a bit and I will find it... But I know it's a fact as I was chatting to a TRE and a cadet from KLM in DPS.
Look on the NET they are going to take on LOTS of experienced expats, it is upsetting the local pilots as they can't join from say Capt. At Lion to Capt at Garuda, but the expats can and on more money.
Lots of support was given to Garuda to get them off the blacklist and to pass the IOSA audit.
Going back to the expat pilots being there, it was even recently reported in the Jakarta press.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 16:19
Your main advise is to wait for?
An airline than can provide you the type either with bond or other agreement after which you become an employee of the airline. Get a solid experience like that - then if you want to fly in Asia go back as a contract pilot and enjoy the flying along with a tax free salary and nice hotel!
PT6A
The search function turns up lots of its for expats at GA
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/434688-garuda-cancels-11-domestic-international-flights.HTML
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/423143-flying-garuda.html
PT6A
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 16:33
thus you advise to do my line training and after will come back with an expat contract?
No! To get a JOB first get 3 years or so then decide if it is even what you still want to do.
Buying these hours from EJ is bordering on crazy! All the guys I spoke to there had no job, there was even a guy paying to be a Captain there:ugh:
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 17:43
But other pilots say who have job!!!!!!!Garuda, Batavia, or other in asia, who must I believe?
Have a job? Or are paying to fly there or working as a slave.....
I have nothing in this fight, just trying to help you before you make what could be a huge mistake....
You seem to be wearing blinkers, so this is the last I will say on the matter.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 17:54
ok, if other peoples have an experience in line training, this will be great!!!
training wheels
28th Dec 2010, 18:02
Thanks for those links PT6A, the first one didn't work for me, and the second makes no mention of Garuda having cadet pilots from KLM, which you stated, 'is a well known fact'.
I'm aware that Garuda are now hiring foreign pilots but doubt very much your claim that they have cadets from KLM. You also suggested that a foreigner can not work for more than 2 years in Indonesia due to government regulation. That is incorrect; my initial contract with an Indonesian airline was 3 years; the thread you linked mentioned 5 years max with a possibility of this being extended by the DGCA.
I appreciate you trying to help with information, but misinformation doesn't help anyone. :)
CrazyStuntPilot
28th Dec 2010, 18:59
I wouldn't do it but it's a calculated risk. Make sure you have plan B in case you don't get a job after doing your 500 hrs. Don't think it can't happen to you.
alloverthesky87
28th Dec 2010, 19:49
just I want testimony...about line traning
Training wheels,
I was talking to a GA crew both of which were from KLM one a TRE the other a KLM schooled cadet! It's as simple as that!
KLM also sponsored GA to join skyteam.
The poster in one of the threads I gave to you, is, as far as I'm aware a KLM pilot, on contract to GA.
But soon GA will be full of expats anyway.
PT6A
training wheels
29th Dec 2010, 07:00
PT6A, I have no problem with GA or any other airline in Indonesia for that matter accepting expat pilots (I'm one of those anyway) .. just requesting that you post accurate info here to help others. It doesn't matter so much whether the person you spoke to is a KLM cadet or not (although I still very much doubt it).
I don't condone pay to fly schemes myself and wouldn't encourage anyone to do it. There are airlines in Indonesia who are now changing their policy with regards to this; they once paid for your type rating in the past, but because people are willing to pay for a rating and then be employed by them, they are now too happy to accept those willing to pay. I'm happy to say that I nor many of my expat colleagues had to pay for their type ratings with the airline that we're with.
Anyway, wishing all those who intend to work in Indonesia, the best of luck with their pursuits. It's very much an interesting place to work. ATC is actually quite good and flexible with requests from aircrew, although understanding their accents takes a little getting used to.
And good to see more expats here .. at one time it was only a few, like Susi Air who had expats but now increasingly many more airlines are opening their doors to foreign pilots. This doesn't mean the airlines here are willing to take anyone as the airlines here can still afford to pick and choose as they're no shortage of Australian, US, European and Indian expats knocking on their doors.
FredLSGL
29th Dec 2010, 08:02
indonesia: "It's very much an interesting place to work" to quote training wheels... maybe it is an interesting place but only if you show up with a bit of experience.
Other wise you are just a slave... actually slaves do not need to pay to work. Even if we skip the whole paying to fly thingy what do you have a the end?
Fly in a really bad environment where airlines have sop, sms and crm on paper only.
Local pilots (your captains) buy licenses, type rating and ppc.
Stuck in the country with a single entry permit.
On most flights you will be a FO and RO
Just take a look at the last line of the preliminary report of PK-LIQ
"The NTSC recommended to the PT. Lion Mentari Airlines, to improve the quality of
training, including ALAR (Approach Landing Accident Reduction)."
I was seating in some ground school for an other famous indonesian outfit who got the same recommendation from NTSC.
Was really impress to find the ALAR kit from flight safety foundation on my desk but... we did not opened it during the two days allocated to ALAR.
The same outfit put a plane in a river not so long ago.
Some airlines realize that it is time to turn the page and move forward Garuda, airfast, travira and mandala but for the others nothing will change unless those outfits want to fly overseas.
Save your money go fly for a regional or a charter operator and when the time will be right you will have a jet seat. Now if your dad is loaded go ahead just spend the cash buy a falcon and fly him around.
PK-LIQ preliminary report good idea to check the others...
http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviation/baru/pre/Preliminary%20Report%20PK-LIQ.pdf
At last some common sense spoken!:D
alloverthesky87
29th Dec 2010, 16:23
listen to me.
Don't speak about my father or orther. You don't know how much and how I have my money.
You must understand that people want to have a quiet life, flying, enjoying.
Do the asshole on cessna, or other for several pounds, it's not for me.
If I will have to pay one year with 500 jet hours, I will pay. You have to understand and stop injuring people who do a line traning.
And don't forget, there are people who sale peanuts, and others who have a job providing a good salary, thus having a good training.
That's a choice.
Don't injure because you're not open minded...:eek:
You get these answers because your part of a problem that is ruining the industry.
Don't be crying when down the road at other airlines people hold it against you.
PT6A
alloverthesky87
29th Dec 2010, 17:38
I don't cry. I expect you to have a minimum of respect. You have a point of view. I respect that. Respect mine. I consider your position. Consider mine.
Ok, but just be aware of it... Like I say many airlines doors will close because of this program.
So unless you know for sure before you do it that you have a job afterwards, save your money or give it to charity.
PT6A
FredLSGL
29th Dec 2010, 18:32
Du calme...
I understand your dream and I think we all share the same, having an happy flying life... now if someone or more than one pilots are taking the time to answer your questions and they do not match what you want to hear there is maybe something to dig..
Do you know how much people a know who are currently type rated 737, A320 or even both with 1000 TT crying because they can not find anything and they need to pay back the bank.
Yes money is an issue down the line or you have it and you should just enjoy yourself and do not ask to many questions otherwise think twice.
Now to get back on the subject, did you try to contact pklucky888 or some other guys whom been flying at lion?
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/320496-eagle-jet-international-fist-officer-training-12.html
Ps doing the asshole in a C208b like I use to do was more rewarding intellectually and money wise than being a paying passenger in the right seat.
Do you think that you will enjoy seating in an airplane with a captain who do not allow you to touch anything except the flaps and the radio legs after legs?
southernskyz
29th Dec 2010, 20:39
training wheels,
Some thoughts on your comments...
*Quote: training wheels
"I'm happy to say that I nor many of my expat colleagues had to pay for their type ratings with the airline that we're with".
True...but all you expats finding yourself in this position, are unfortunantly stuck there (Indonesia) for a number of years and because the airline has paid for the type rating (turboprop), the airline has to get their money back and this is done by placing everyone on low pay (USD$1,200 a month) for the term of their contract,which could be 2 to 3 years.
A danger can exist, that if something happens to an expat during the term of their contract, where a person is unable to fly for any reason, it's highly likely the expat will get locked up and go to jail, unless the whole original training amount$ is returned immediately.
*Quote:training wheels
"There are airlines in Indonesia who are now changing their policy with regards to this; they once paid for your type rating in the past, but because people are willing to pay for a rating and then be employed by them, they are now too happy to accept those willing to pay.
"I reckon it's better to pay for a rating and get accepted by an Indonesian carrier through this way,
because a person will be placed on a higher wage about USD$2,000 a month and a there won't be any concerns about any loans being owed to the airline.
At least a person can leave after a year's service than staying there for a number of years.
Then again it depends what equipment a person is flying.
Quote:training wheels
"they're no shortage of Australian, US, European and Indian expats knocking on their doors".
I'm not sure about that?
I don't see many low time or average experience pilots from Australia running to Indonesia each week.
I'm sure the flying's great but the extremely low pay and being stuck in a foreign country for a few years, isn't on everyones list as an exciting life.
Then again, years do pass by and the experience gained can lead to new opportunities!
**PT6A,
Quote:PT6A
"KLM also sponsored GA to join skyteam."
KLM didn't sponsor anyone!
GA is joining skyteam?
Based on a commercial business partnership, to strengthen the European teams exposure in that part of Asia, and it assists GA with their carriage of traffic to other European destinations.
Quote:PT6A
"But soon GA will be full of expats anyway."
Really PT6A?
Do you really think things work that way?
Did you forget that GA has a pilots union?
Expats arriving at GA are only there for a short period(1 or 2 year contract), to assist with the companys expansion aims.
*I've read your posts about GA and the Indonesian scene and
you really don't know what's happening there!
You're just refering to older posts on this forum!
Google some news articles on the Indonesian scene to have a better idea
of the current aviation climate there.
southernskyz
29th Dec 2010, 21:05
FredLSGL,
Quote:FredLSGL
Do you know how much people a know who are currently type rated 737, A320 or even both with 1000 TT crying because they can not find anything and they need to pay back the bank.
Well they're really stupid for getting a type rating if they didn't have the money!
Quote: FredLSGL
Ps doing the asshole in a C208b like I use to do was more rewarding intellectually and money wise than being a paying passenger in the right seat.
Have you got a B738 or A32o type rating? No you don't.
Do you think it's easy to get a B738 or A320 type rating?
You'll find that you will be pulling you hair out by the time you finish getting a B738 type rating in your license and someone signs you off
as being competent.
The single engine C208 experience will not help you with the simulator jet training.
FredLSGL:Quote:
Do you think that you will enjoy seating in an airplane with a captain who do not allow you to touch anything except the flaps and the radio legs after legs?
That only happens when you're in your C208.
Is that what you reckon actually happens?
How do you know?
It's a proper two crew operation and you got to be competent in all aspects of the job.
An airline has to be sponsored by a member airline to join the alliance, in this case GA was voted in by Peter Hartman from KLM.
Air France-KLM's Pierre Gourgeon Speaks About The Alliance Skyteam bundles its forces in Asia - eTurboNews.com (http://www.eturbonews.com/12992/skyteam-bundles-its-forces-asia)
And yes GA will be full of expats just look at the top of this site! Yes they ave a union they even had a small unofficial strike..... But the expats continue to arrive.
PT6A