No season of good will at Aer Arann

[The real examiner]

There once was a time when Aer Arann was a pleasant place to work where staff were always willing to go the extra mile and customer service was of paramount importance however the management never made the most of the good times squandering large amounts of money. When the economic situation in Ireland led to the company falling into examinership there was the hope that process would introduce a new investor with the resources and skills to restructure and realise the potential of the airline. The only right thing the owner could do at this point was to walk away for the sake of the company.....
This we now know did not happen, surprisingly the owner was allowed to propose what is at best a messy and questionable business plan with no change to the inept management structure that got Aer Arann into the situation it found itself in (but of course that was all the volcano’s fault) Creditors were short changed ranging from airports to taxi companies while the owner was lauded in the media as the saviour of the plucky Irish regional. Things have gone from bad to worse since. The major lifeline for the company came in the form of the Aer Lingus regional routes but it has been to the detriment of the Aer Arann legs, the company virtually abandoning customer service. It was decided to operate with minimum crew ( sometimes less than minimum) stretching the legalities of flight time limitations such as it had become the daily norm leaving exhausted crews operating aircraft with ever increasing technical issues.
The illegal pay cuts were only the beginning but no one imagined that it could lead to crews operating and being forced into discretion on an almost a daily basis. Cabin crew have at times been bullied into doing so. Many duties involve driving a hire car half the length of the country ( no exaggeration) to fly a duty and drive back to base, this had led to some individuals falling asleep at the wheel. Anyone that question this practice are dealt with .
The chief pilot seems to act now only as a management puppet , His most common quote being “ I don’t think that duty is fatiguing” . He has lost all credibility with the pilot body and should enjoy his bonuses for cutting costs in the flight deck department.
Over the recent cold spell the company culture that was established with PSO routes years ago (ie the flight must go) resulted in many appalling decisions in an under crewed operations department. While other airlines take early decisive action and cancel flights , Arann operations insist on spending several thousand de icing an aircraft to dispatch with 3 passengers. 24 hours later the aircraft and crew are stranded at the destination aerodrome and the company is down an aircraft for the following day. The main skill the ops department seem to possess is to haemorrhage Eddie Stobart’s money.
When a workforce is under such stress mistakes will inevitably occur. A rise in the number of level busts, itself a result of the company culture led to management choosing the pilots as scapegoats. A document was circulated citing carelessness as the main factor, all the while ignoring the dreaded F word.
I am sure the powers that be will see this post and I would hope that they would undertake all efforts to improve the current situation, Sadly the arrogance and contempt for the employees means that little or nothing will change.

[Idontpaymydebts]

Well said! I have a number of friends working there who tell me the same thing. Looks like a nasty place to work.

[White Knight]

Well thank goodness for this! There's me thinking that only the 'sandpit' operators ignored F*t*g*e - that very bad f-word of modern aviation...

Good luck AA guys - hope my old ATRs are still going strong:ok::ok::ok:

[changeover]

Thanks for speaking out on this issue. This profession is overdue for some serious change with respect to all of us flying around zombiefied for the sake of some operations joe/jody sitting behind their desk from 9-5. I spent years waking up in hotel rooms after an 18 hour day wondering what city I was in just because the fed's really did not care to see the pilots point of view, but rather only the company man's point of view. In the U.S. that all came to an end with the cologan crash last year, the fed's and congress finally had to respond. After the fact of course.

[Capt Ted Crilly]

hey change,

reactions and actions only come after crashes, its called "the tombstone imperative" there is a book about it in circulation, i read it many years ago.

sounds like the malignant RYR disease is spreading to other operators. what a shame.

[Damianik]

Guys,
more i become senior in aviation and more i think it is becoming the norm to hear things like this. Who can change this? US....

It is 99% like this nowdays in the world, so what else can we go, how far can we escape?
globalization of bad terms and unsafe operations!!

Please, lets organize some sort of fight or i will definitely loose hope...
D

[spitfire747]

I spent a very enjoyable 2 years with AA in GWY and the airline was a very different place to be then. The then base capt who is now the chief Pilot was a real pilot person, one for the troops but as is the same in all companies, a move to an office with a desk, a management coffee maker and a BONUS means inevitable change. I have many friends still flying for Aer Arann, many want to leave but can't now due to the rise of pay to fly with locos like ezy and ryr, the traditional earn your experience on a turbo prop before moving on to jets has been scuppered by kids with rich mummy's and daddy'd willing to buy a seat in a flash jet so they "can do good landings for the girls" (as one cadet told me last week).

I hope things turn around, a great little airline with some fab crews !

[dusty crop]

The real examiner,disappointed to read about your post but it had to be done.I have friends in aa and i dont hear from them as much,probably too busy working..
It still makes me wonder how the judge approved this "rescue package"..aer arann made 16 million of a loss and stobart are putting in some where between 0ne and three million,the numbers dont add up.

[Idontpaymydebts]

Had a beer this evening with a friend that works for AA. Seems its only a matter of time until something very serious happens. Tales of report times being changed to make things legal, pressure to operate when fatigued and even phone calls from the CP if you wont use discretion. Operating into difficult airfields in very marginal wx, planes flying around with no ADF's.Tired crews operating into the London TMA with no-autopilot.Didnt they have a flame-out a few years ago?????

[Mercenary Pilot]

The Captains only have to say NO and the flights don't happen. They have a responsibility to the passengers. If this is guaranteed to lead to them being fired then they resign first, but it's too late after a crash to say "It's because of this this and this".

Sadly in this day and age of 'European Aviation Safety', you cant count on the authorities to lift a finger but its always worth a try, even if anonymously. Also, I know that for every Captain that does have the balls to stand up and say no, there will be some spineless little prick willing to take an unsafe flight anyway but that's just the way it is in this business.

I hope if its as bad as being made out then all the good guys at RE find new employment soon, but in the meantime I'm afraid its time to make a choice. And for those posters about to tell me that morals don't feed hungry mouths, I say to them that An accident is often career stunting and a death-in-service payment wont keep a roof over loved ones heads.

Standing by for incoming.

[7AC]

The Real Examiner you are only telling a fraction of the story.
Tell us about the ADFs jumping from plane to plane and the heavy REI and REH being
put on the short runways and the dumping of passengers as a result. The "good" ATRs
being put in Gig Green and kept for the long runways at Cork, Shannon and Dublin.
The bonus story is not going away either.

[Headinclouds]

Well said,

Any Capt worth their salt should refuse a duty if they see safety will be compromised. This will inevitably lead to cancellations, which is the main measurement for crewing levels in most airlines by senior management!

[FRAMEX]

Mercenary Pilot you are right. For every Capt that says no there are 5 others willing to operate, working days off then complaining about being tired from all the work! And some of them are training Capt who should be setting an example.It is true that if you refuse to use discretion, Ops will get the Chief Pilot to give you a call. What they think this achieves, I dont know but to someone looking at it from the outside it looks like intimidation. And F/O's who speak up and voice their concern, find themselves with a roster from hell and NO chance of upgrade as they are seen as trouble makers.

Yes they did have a flameout a few years back due to a fuel gauge inop and the incorrect procedure being applied.But from what I hear now the HIL is going longer and longer for each aircraft.

So fatigued crews who are being harassed and pressured PLUS crap airplanes EQUALS.......................??????

[FRAMEX]

It also speaks volumes of the atmosphere in AerArann if crew feel that they must come on an anonymous forum to voice concerns. Crew concerns are obviously not taken on-board. Its been noted on another thread that the bonuses would have added up to approx 200,000euro, at a time when crew are still trying to live with the illegal paycuts. Our benevolent owner likes to portray himself as a man of the people who looks after his workers, so what has gone wrong???

[STANDTO]

as a pax who uses them into LCY, I must say I have watched them degenerate over the past few years. Withdrawing from routes such as IOM-LPL seems to be when the rot set in. The a/c are grubby and appear unloved, and the little freebies that make a difference have all gone.

Maybe it is time for a complete makeover, and the birth of StobartAir. If they keep the planes half as smart as the lorries, maybe consumer confidence will return.

[Jack Russell]

Looks like big similarities between Aer Arann/ Padraigh and Finna Fail/Brian Cowen, arrogant and asleep at the wheel, Does this make Eddie Stobbart and Tim Kilroe the IMF???? :=

[Head of Training]

I can only agree with the Real Examiner. A very good friend of mine has worked for Aer Arann for a number of years and he regularly expresses the concerns outlined by the original poster.
The chief pilot who may have started out with the best of intentions is a complete management lackey these days. He only operates once a week and then can’t see why certain duties are not fatiguing to him!!! He oversaw the illegal pay cut of crews, allowed crews to operate almost on a daily basis in fatigue on aircraft with multiple defects into small regional airports.
Apparently some of the guys and gals in Galway have a 6 sector duty that is only legal by around 30 minutes. It is fatiguing at the best of times apparently and then factor in the current cold spell and it is a complete nightmare, the chief pilot apparently gave his personal guarantee in the autumn that he would not sign it off for the winter, it is still being rostered!!!
The operations department are not able or not allowed to prioritise or cut flights when things go wrong. This is apparently due to a completely inadequate “commercial” department who want every flight to go even though some are almost empty and the cost of de-icing the aircraft wipes out any revenue. The delays push the actual revenue flights back by hours, annoying a great many more passengers, paying out of hour’s airport charges to the regionals and putting the crew on constant max flight duties and minimum rest. Just what does an ex marketer from Vodafone Ireland know about commercial flight operations?
Also they have insisted in rotating two ATR72-201’s into Galway. These aircraft have a huge performance penalty for both take off and landing. Often crew have to fuel stop resulting in between 5 and 7 sector days for crews or at the very least taking minimum fuel to Luton in CAT 2 conditions. All this only serves to add to crew fatigue and stress as well as throwing out the entire days schedule so the later duties have to operate into the early hours of the morning. All this goes on while the 500s and 212s are happily operating in Aer Lingus colours on non limiting runways. Utter madness.
The pilot body and cabin crew body as a whole are treated with utter contempt by management. They were subjected to an illegal pay cut but not only that saw all pay scales agreed upon completely thrown out of the window. There is now no pay scale at all and many crews are effectively on a year one salary despite being there for many years. There is a huge pressure applied on crews to operate into discretion. Crews are driving hire cars the length and breadth of the country in horrendous weather, operating and then driving back to base again in the middle of the night, the management even have the audacity to get crews to fill the car up with fuel and then claim the expenses back.
A select amount of crew have added to and facilitated this madness for quite a while now. They insist on working days off which adds to the crew shortage and operating into discretion is a just something that is done. Operating into discretion should be a carefully considered procedure when you factor the type of flying that Aer Arann crews have to endure. The rostering is a complete joke with the Christmas roster only coming out a few days beforehand leaving many of the crews who try to commute at a complete loss as to their festive arrangements.
What the airline needs is for the current management, board and commercial department to up sticks and leave and allow competent people to take the helm.
What the guys and gals in Arann need to do is come and join me flying the ATR in the Mediterranean Sun.

[7AC]

There is another runour doing the rounds now and it is that four new pilots from a certain training college had volunteered to work there for free.
Can anybody confirm?

[seasexsun]

Good Idea to put that on this famous forum :ok:

What a crap company!


Head of Training, where do you fly? There is no much ATRs in the mediteranean sun... Olympic?

[Idontpaymydebts]

Regarding the early 6 sector out of Galway, it's only legal because they have 20minutes turnaround times and unrealistic block times. This duty normally generates 2-3 discretion reports per week, which begs the question, what are the IAA doing to regulate it? Oh and normally this duty is followed by a 0525 report the following day, which our illustrious CP has said is "not tiring". However if you do call in fatigued you are met with abuse from Ops. Sad but true.

[Nav Accuracy High]

WELL SAID!

I can't agree more with anything that has been said so far on this post!:D

Hopefully things will change!

Cheers

[Nav Accuracy High]

10 Points on the opening post. Respect for the examiner!

AA are in my opinion in very troubled water. This past examiner exercise was nothing but some creative accounting. My opinion.....get off this sinking ship. AA is and always will be a gentlemen flying club where you will only succeed if you mastered the art of brown nosing. If you are not in this magic league of big headed men you will struggle.

Somebody mentioned earlier something about the Chief Pilot, MARK ALDER. It is my sincerest opinion that this man is one of the main problems of this airline. As long as he is with AA, the company will be in a downward spiral. This person holds surprisingly a staggering, egocentric, pocket filling 6 positions. He awarded himself the role as: Chief Pilot, Fleet Manager, Manager Flight Operations, TRI, TRE. AND base captain Galway. He is highly incapable in every role he assigned himself. He works from home on his " Home Office Days". God knows what he does there but he sure isn't available to the work force!!

How can a normal thinking person expect to fulfil all these positions? Simple.......he can't. He is by far the most disliked person within the pilot body. He intimidates people with his authority.

Not to long ago the company suggested everybody took a pay cut to keep the airline operating. The chief pilot threatened that he would resign his position if he had to face the same pay cut. Subsequently he got a lower pay cut. And it is common knowledge, not confirmed, that he never took any pay cut at all. Same for most managers.

It is common knowledge that there is no such thing as Captains Discretion in AA. This was painfully made clear fairly recently by the beloved CP. One skipper recently was ticked on the finger for drawing the line in the sand. The CP wasn't happy with this and he made this quite clear in some aggressive phone calls to the crew. Unfortunately this is a common thing in AA. Crews are expected to go into discretion. Ops will schedule very tight 6 sector days where there is absolutely no room for delay. We all know that AA can't do a day without delays!! Yet they still schedule these tight 6 sector days.

I believe Mark Alder gets bonuses in his managerial roles, such as for his on time record, hence the pressure on the crew and his willingness to forfeit safety. People are chronically fatigued, and I am not talking about people who work on days off!! I am talking about the once who do have a back bone.


Regarding the bonuses on pprune, it hasn't been confirmed nor denied by the company. But statistically I expect the big boys in head office to give themselves a nice bonus. I trust them to do what is right for them, fill their pockets. (the Irish way, me me me me). Many people within AA have multiple roles and subsequently find themselves in a position where they face serious conflicts of interest. And 10 out of 10 they have gone for the financial option and not the safe option. If they can fill their pockets they will. It is my opinion that AA is on the brink of collapse. Be it through the money pot drying up or, god forbid, an air incident.

The only way this airline can survive is when they put the right man on the right job. Get rid of this old gentleman's flying club! Get rid of the chief pilot or let him fulfil one role! Get a separate ops manager, fleet captain, base captain.
Can you imagine what the end result will be when you put three talented men, or women, in those roles, instead of one incapable person.

You will have a workforce that is motivated, loyal and willing to run the extra mile. You will end up with a structure where all departments are transparent and open. God knows, you might end up with a profitable safe airline.

As you can probably understand I am not AA biggest fan! I do however have extensive experience with AA and I regret every minute of it. Everything on this post is public knowledge, I simply try to get a discussion going that has been going for some time among the AA staff. I apologise if I have offended you. But I feel that some things need to be made more public than they already are, in the greater interest of those who actually want to see AA survive. I am one of those people. I hope they have a long and successful future. But this will be heavily undermined as long as some people in AA stay in their positions.

The only people who can make this happen is the pilot body. They have to stand together and make a fist and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. And this is where I see the second problem that will undermine AA success. The pilots are known to be un-united! We have had many past events where pilots have shown each other that they rather look after themselves instead of each other. A very real RYR culture!

I just hope the pilots can overcome this and force the company to change their habits and force them to steer it in the right direction!!!

GOOD LUCK

[FRAMEX]

Nav Accuracy High, well said. There is not one thing in your post that I disagree with. And now it seems he's re-jigged the base calculator to get his best-est friends back to DUB. To hell with the recently upgraded guys with young families who are now stuck in other bases. There are some good guys in the company but there are a few who will quite happily fly 17 hr duty days and then land back into a CAT C airfield at 0430, and then complain about being tired. Working days off only screws everyone else but enjoy it guys, enjoy the 30 pieces of silver, you disgust me.

[Papa2Charlie]

Hi all,

Very sorry to see that these issues have come up on PPRUNE but I realise things reach a boiling point and you have to act. Aside from the stories of the duty times, the state of the aircraft technically has me interested. What kind of defects are they flying with besides ADF's inop?? Seems like an ADF is a simple piece of kit to replace so can't understand the mentality here.:ugh: I thought they'd have to submit reliability reports to the IAA every so often as part of their reliability monitoring requirements under the CAMO rules.

Having travelled on RE a few times this year, the aircraft really are getting tatty and reflect very poorly on the airline.

Management wise, the one thing that makes me wonder is why Paul Schutz is still in place? He's been associated with failure throughout his entire aviation career ever since he left FR and seems to be doing a bang up job at RE. :eek:

All the best and safe flying,

P2C.

[Nav Accuracy High]

Quote:
Can you imagine what the end result will be when you put three talented men, or women, in those roles, instead of one...?
Three salaries......

Dear ASFKAP,

Three salaries is a very cheap price to pay for a loss making airline. It is peanuts if it helps the future and sustainability of the airline. Either way, the discussion to justify three more salaries is a lot easier than the discussion how you can justify one man needlessly fill his pockets and in the process does a horribly bad job!?!?

If this continues nobody will have a salary...........

Happy Xmas.

[maxpain]

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

DATE:10/09/10
SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news
Aer Arann chief: Carrier's business strategy is solid
By Victoria Moores

"Aer Arann chief Paul Schutz is aiming to maintain the carrier's fleet and headcount, insisting it needs financial rather than operational restructuring during its spell in creditor protection."

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Unregistered101]

Sounds like a gang of very dangerous Cowboys.I doubt the IAA are getting any reliability reports or any other kind of reports, I'd say lots of things being swept under a big carpet somewhere.:eek:

[Neptunus Rex]

Having had a quick shufti at this thread, I checked the Aer Aerann website. They are advertising Galway to London for 82 quid return. 40 years ago, a similar flight, Belfast - London would have cost 30 quid. (I know; I did it regularly.) Now adjust that for inflation, and the cost should be at least 150 quid, probably a lot more.

Therein lies the problem. Airline staff, especially pilots, through their abysmally low salaries, are subsidising the travelling public.

[Head of Training]

True.

I have it on first hand experience that the aircraft have been dispatched with no TCAS and no GPWS.

Having the ADF inoperative is a joke because if memory serves me correctly all missed approaches on the regionals are based off of NDBs and all easterly runways usually only have an NDB approach which forces crews to take tailwinds into CAT C airports after a busy fatiguing schedule.

It is alos true about REH having the number 1 pack or bleed inoperative for quite a period of time recently. Galway has been as cold as minus 12 on the ground. When the crews arrive for their days work, there is effectively no heating at all on the flight deck. This will make for miserable working conditions as well as dare I say it, adding to crew stress and certainly taking minds off the job. Adding to that, the aircraft is restricted to FL170 which increases fuel burns, block times (due to the reduced TAS) and forces crew to potentially fly in icing and turbulance layers adding to fatigue. If a commander was to dare refuse an aircraft based on the above he would be ridiculed.

The thing that gets me is that crew are forced to drive cars in the recent horrendous weather all over the country, operate and then drive home. It is ridiculous to expect crews to do this. All this stems from crew shortage and management greed. Safety is not a priority or the schedules would not be as they are. You can not roster people onto duties that are legal by 30 minutes, over 6 sectors with 20 and 25 minute turn arounds in winter and say you have safety and the crews best interests at heart.

I honestly can not believe that the examiner allowed the current management team to remain in place and at the same time screwing a lot of people over and eliminating or greatly reducing debt. Apparently three years of loss was blamed on the Icelandic volcano which again if memory serves me correctly, lasted for a few months over only one summer.

It is business as usual in Aer Arann with money being wasted hand over fist to satisfy an inept management and commercial department.

[Neptunus Rex]

Brown envelopes?

[FRAMEX]

Dont know Neptunus Rex........
From speaking to my buddy in AA, the unserviceabilities are going beyond a joke. The ADF problem was sorted out by swapping it out an into a different airplane every 10 days thereby never actually fixing the problem just moving it on.
Its not engineerings fault they can only work with what they have, but someone is very obviously not doing/hiding paperwork from the authorities.

I have very little faith in the IAA, but I reckon the CAA would love to hear about how aircraft are being operated into London TMA.

Someone needs to be a whistleblower before something serious happens.....

[Papa2Charlie]

That's really unbelievable behaviour from their engineering / CAMO organisation from a professional stand point. They shouldn't allow the continued operation of aircraft to the MEL and the maintenance post holder should view it as part of his responsibility to keep the fleet in decent shape. Yes, it's necessary now and again to release to the MEL for a few days but it shouldn't be a way of life. The defects sound like they could rectified with a simple LRU swap in most instances. It seems like avionics / systems aren't top of the fleet at all. Thankfully the PWC 100's are generally a reliable engine otherwise all hell would break lose.

Something in that organisation needs a shake up to get the fleet into decent shape again.

[Jack Russell]

I spoke to a Dublin based AA guy today and he agreed with most of what was said, It seems every base suffers in it's own way. The Dublin crews complained of excessive duties and were awarded with airport standbys. In order to make up the shortfall in other bases they are forced to drive to Waterford Cork and Shannon on a daily basis.
The crews went along with they were asked and were seen as quite dosile but the day the Head of training branded the crews complacent and careless as a result of a rise in level busts the cracks in the loyalty began to appear.
Unity is still the flighdecks major problem as many will not join IALPA , a crazy choice given the situation they find themselves in.

[Head of Training]

That is one of the other problems my good friend in Aer Arann tells me. Standbys.

Most duties especially out of Galway are sheduled with a standby before the duty if on a late or after the duty if on a mid or early duty. Some of these are rostered up to 2300 after commencing work at around 1200 - 1300 and flying 4 sectors, this obviously makes for miserable working conditions with your so called free time not being your own. It also allows the crewing department to completely change your working day with just one hours notice, again allowing nobody to really plan anything.

There was indeed a recent memo circulated about an unacceptable number of level busts. Apparently it cited all manner of reasons but drew the conclusion that it was crew complacancy that caused these. Fatigue was never once mentioned as a factor or potential factor but rather it is not the system at fault but the individual pilots, again, this shows the utter contempt that management demonstrate towards the pilot body and further demonstrates how out of touch they are with them. I am sorry but you are not as sharp if operating on day 5 after completing up to 30 sectors in bad weather with defective aircraft.

There are always the select few that do ruin it for the rest, the short sightedness having them work days off, working beyond max FDP to keep the show on the road. All this just adds to operating with less than the required crew and we all know where that can lead.

Apparently the head ops man not too long ago when the lack of crew was highlighted to him simply stated that they are not short of crew because flights had not yet been cancelled. Again, showing how completely out of touch these people are with flight operations. None of them bar the chief pilot have any worthy operational experience so can not even begin to understand how taxing flying a regional turbo prop on the atlantic coast is.

I just wish the guys and gals there could vote with their feet but alas the pay to fly brigade sabotaging other airlines has seen an end to that.

[Papa2Charlie]

Happy Christmas to all. Yes, I noted all of the posters were newbies so who knows what the background is. None the less, sounds like there is room for improvement in the way the airline's being managed. I come from an engineering background and honestly wouldn't feel comfortable dispatching aircraft with such reportedly long lists of defects. On top of that, it'd be great to see some strategic direction emerge for the airline.

I've got my fingers crossed for Aer Arann. They're absolutely needed in Ireland and are a decent employer........we need more of them in Ireland these days.

[overun]

Seems outlandish but the ones getting paid may be having a better time of it than the ones doing the paying.

If l read it in the tech log l would take faults as gospel, otherwise ........

[Papa2Charlie]

Not quite with you Overun..... I'm probably still half asleep given the morning. :confused:

[Papa2Charlie]

Just re the tech logs. I'm sure they're legally dispatching etc. but the operators I work with wouln't be at all happy to continually keep aircraft in service with long defect lists without having an action plan. In all likelihood, the crews would start to questions them and then eventually refuse to take the aircraft if they didn't see the defects rectified. That's the just the experience I've had.

[overun]

no point in dirty linen being on display, so l removed it.
Take care, l wish you an even better year than your last.

[Papa2Charlie]

Fair point Overun and agree with you, not right to air the dirty laundy on this forum.

All the best and have a Happy Christmas, New Years and fingers crossed for a great 2011.

[seasexsun]

Guys, All turboprop companies in europe have turned into crap outfit, all of them. you'd better give up and go to Vietnam Airlines, I have friends who have gone there on the ATR and they are very well paid, well considered and the maintenance is top notch....

good luck

[Papa2Charlie]

Not necessarily, I think there is a place for turboprop operators in Europe and they need not necessarily be crap places to work. I think Flybe seems to be a decent enough example of an airline with a strategy and what seems like relatively happy crews.

Aer Arann will likely never be a Flybe but the principles are the same. Get the strategy right and bring the staff with you, then everyone's (owners, management, staff, customers) a winner.

[overun]

Not wanting a smell of Christmas past never mind this one, and bravely ignoring a humped cadaver covered in tin foil, l put in the oven a Marks and Spencer lasagne.

Guess what, some arse had changed sleeves for the checkout, l`ve just found a portion of cauliflower cheese. Cooked beautifully l should add.

Who organised this shambles ?

l won`t bother next year. Mind, l wasn`t too interested this time.

[Papa2Charlie]

I think a careful inspection of the contents before cooking is required for next year.... :ok:

In general though, a very disappointing find on a Christmas Day. Hope you had something else in the fridge / freezer.

[overun]

l`m too fat to starve.

Take care my friend.

[Airbusfreak]

guys can somebody from inside the company fill me in on why the airline are hiring pilots? are you guaranteed a job after tr? ive heard otherwise..

[CaptainSox]

Can you compare Eastern Airways with AA? I thought Eastern was supposed to be good in that respect? :rolleyes:

[FRAMEX]

Well guys, it looks as if more and more flights are being cancelled due to lack of crew and no good-will from crew to work days off. And why should they when all it does is give a nice fat BONUS to the CP, Director of Ops and his henchmen. Sad really. Hopefully the Govt will cop on and start asking questions as to why the flights, that they are paying for, are not being operated???

On a side note, a quick look at the website, Personally Speaking | The World Class Speaker Bureau (http://www.personallyspeaking.ie) will give you a good laugh. Especially the bit about our very humble Owner and his speeches about leadership and vision........(I think I just got sick in my mouth).

[7AC]

I hear last night's Dublin to Galway was cancelled due to shortage of cabin crew.
I've no doubt the fare paying passengers were very understanding.

[Papa2Charlie]

Haven't Aer Arann recently completed a round of recruitment for cabin crew following the examinership?? Agreed though, cancelling a flight due to cabin crew shortage is not going to make your passengers happy. On top of that, I'd view that as something within the airlines control and hence all of the passenger compensation rules would kick-in?

Any signs of more flight deck recruitment to make up for the rostering issues??

[7AC]

My understanding is that all airlines, even the man in the street, are aware of FTLs.
I am told that the head of operations is away on holiday at present and has left the shop
in the hands of a couple of juniors. It seems his ability to pass the buck
when the manure goes in the fan is missed. It's only half pinned down.

[bia botal]

I am told that the head of operations is away on holiday at present and has left the shop in the hands of a couple of juniors.

These not a whole lot of difference between them.

in my opinion AA needs to sort out their operations department by employing qualified operations controllers, reshuffle management to those who actually know how to run an airline,

It's called nepotism and it runs very think in these departments, with each covering each others back, hence the reason why the crews get the blame for everything. The will be no change until its to late, and then it won't matter, the managers know it which is why they took there bonuses, the ship is sinking what difference a couple more holes!!

With any luck at all aer lingus will keep on the ATR service and employ at least some of the crews, and i wish them the very best of luck, but it has to be said that any hope of AA becoming a success ended the day the transaer bunch arrived. It only ever survive from then thanks to the PSO cash.

[sir sank]

Well I suppose we cant expect a response from a managerial position on this post, while often there is on these threads, but since there is not much disputing all these allegations, it just goes so show the truth hurts!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Since post examinership there has been no improvement or change for the better to Aer Arann’s operational ability, if anything it’s been worse. The cold weather spell is not to blame it just revealed the soft underbelly of a disastrous structure. Yet again the operational dictators can’t be held accountable for their mistakes while the crew will be very quickly disciplined for their errors. If only the paying pax really knew how many of their flights in the cold spell weren’t cancelled due to weather but rather inefficiencies from operations. To name some horrors, Such as three flights being cancelled due to a plane diverting to a nominated airfield (which has been used for years) and had no performance de-icing tables for departure. Or a plane arriving back from a diverted airport to collect its passengers, only to be told by the ground staff that there are no passengers as the flight was cancelled by operations-the same operations which dispatched that plane in the first place. Or flights cancelled as understaffed bases had no crew to operate the following day after the pushed their crew to maximum Flight And Duty hours on the previous day, and with rest restrictions were unable to crew the planes in sufficient time to get people home for Christmas. With a massed increased of discretion reports over the past month to the IAA proving this.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif

The flight crew are rightly upset and have been pushed in a corner with pay cuts. Their pay increments ceased two years ago. Followed by illegal pay cuts of seven to ten percent, which was imposed to “save the company” - Yet since post examinership with new investors, the crew continue to lose 7 - 10 % of their total salary while managers rumour to have bonuses. The increased Irish tax system taking its chunk too. Furthermore you have Second, Third, Fourth year Captains being paid the same as First year Captains. So there is a pay drop every year with the incremental pay scale having being ceased illegally. It’s probably better off being cabin crew, whose basic salary was not reduced, get paid more hourly FDP rate than pilots and get paid an inflight sales end of year bonus, earning themselves as good as a F/O salary’s. This is not taking a dig at the cabin crew as they have to deal normally with the usual irate messed around passengers, but pilots still need to be compensated accordingly. And there is no pension either for crews in Aer Arann; even the tiny Arann Island Express has a pension scheme for the pilots. So every year the pilots should have been rewarded more, as they were putting more money into the company yet they are just abused more.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/bah.gif

Leading on from the pay crisis, it can’t be resolved because of the inefficiency of the JRG (Joint Regulation Group) which was formed as company Union representation. What a farce. This was a pilot body put together which was there to protect the pilots, yet they just get bullied in every meeting by the top office managerial players who consort with the group and manipulate the pilots working standards without letting them ever being able to contest. When the paycuts commenced, the JRG group were told that they would show their financial hand and present book figures, allowing the crew peace of mind that they really were paying in and helping the company to keep afloat. Well the Office managers never kept their side of the bargain, never revealed openly figures and continued to misuse company money in ridiculous day to day running cost situations, then came examinership, and let us not start on managerial bonuses written into their contracts yet. This all while a skeleton flight crew in every base barely kept the operations running by working to maximum duty hours to save costs of hiring new crew. IALPA were consulted, and within a month over 50% of the company joined IALPA, yet they cannot formerly step in, as they could not be recognised as a "hollow vessel" JRG was in place which protected Aer Arann management from IALPA. There's still a healthy contribution of money paid by the pilots for an “overseeing helpless eye”, with crew now expected to be seeking private legal action against Aer Arann (hope the new investors have accounted for this). The JRG needs to be disbanded and proper representation instated otherwise the managers will continue to walk over the pilot body.:ugh:

The Unfortunately Aer Arann is not an airline it’s a select few of Head Office feathering their own nest, It’s the real workers which the public see which keep the ship above water, for how long though?:(

[The real examiner]

Sir Sank raised an interesting point regarding the lack of a pension scheme. Knowing all too well that members of management view this forum I would like to point out to them that as a body of professionals (and let's not forget this) embark on a career in the hope that we some day may afford a dignified retirement without the remains of a mortgage or any other such legacys of a lifetime of debt looming over our heads. This should be a basic right and those of you in management would expect nothing less. As it stands the paltry pay would not cover a proper pension contribution and there in lies the major problem, for none of us ( even the day off working company men) have a career prospect, AA does not offer such a prospect or at the very least a stable future yet demands the crew to push the limits of legalities in the name of an Aer Arann that abuses their loyalty on a daily basis! As it stands I'm hoping to expire of a massive heart attack on my 65th birthday as I won't be looking forward to a comfortable retirement.

[FRAMEX]

Sir Sank,

You are assuming that the IAA are receiving the discretion reports......rumour has it that a large percentage of them that are received in ops go "missing". Rumour has it that delay codes are also changed to cover-up ops management screw-ups. This practice has been going on for years, and over different companies.....................all of which have shut down due to mis-management.

I feel sorry for Shutz, stuck between the Connemara Conman, and a bunch of Liars.

[Idontpaymydebts]

Seems that (mis)management are doing the rounds to all the bases this week. Lets hope that someone asks them about the bonus culture, but judging by past experience with them they will probably just lie...........

[charliecho]

Seagull Manager
A term used to describe a management style of interacting with employees only when a problem arises, making hasty decisions about things they have little understanding of, then leaving others to deal with the mess they leave behind.

"Seagull managers fly in, make a lot of noise, dump on everyone, then fly out."

Sound familiar?

[aroww]

Hi Everybody,
I was wondering if anyone can let me know what the pay for cabin crew working for aer arann is. I have applied them for a cabin crew position.
I would appriciate it if ye can help.

[overun]

forgive the interruption please,

A Seagull.

A Chief Trainer/A Chief Pilot who needs rocks thrown at him to get him airborne.

[propburner]

Not the best of places to work at the best of times.....poor communication between management and front line staff.......management seem to be on different wave lenght at best of times they should try and see hows there airline really works instead of sitting in head office playing with there computers..........cant see them lasting even with aer lingus on board older 72 in poor condition and always tech 42 really showing there age inside and out, there newer 72 not been maintained with dirty carpets,broken seats and shabby looking interior.......:ugh: