Credit where credit's due: LH804 on dec 19th

[W2k]

As a bit of a counterbalance to all the threads here which highlight poor experiences, and in the hopes that someone working for LH reads this forum...

I was at FRA yesterday in the snow-induced mayhem, having just arrived after 11hrs of economy class hell from São Paulo, wanting to get home to Stockholm. Got a seat on LH804 and when I got to the gate there were about a hundred upset pax from the earlier cancelled flight to ARN all at once :ugh: trying to get answers from a solo LH gate staff (eventually joined by a colleague) who could do little but explain that the flight was full already, plus a 50+ long waitlist. Obviously many irate would-be travelers were not satisfied with this response and unable to keep their calm. :mad:

After boarding it took us another good 1½ hours to get airborne due to waiting for startup, taxiing to remote deice, getting deiced and taxiing some more. The A321 was full to the brink, including pax in jumpseats. During the long wait the flight deck kept us SLF very well informed of the progress and we were served drinks. The flight was smooth and the landing at ARN was one of the best I've experienced. The CC were very pleasant, chatty and courteous throughout, despite many people expressing frustration at the delays.

A big thanks to all the LH804 crew and gate staff for your great attitude and utterly professional performance yesterday. I'd fly with you again anytime :D

[PAXboy]

BBC [various pages]My emphasis Few flights were leaving London Heathrow, Europe's busiest airport, and one third of flights were cancelled in major hubs like Paris and Frankfurt. Departures from Brussels airport were to be cancelled until Wednesday due to a lack of de-icing liquid.

There are of course airports that claim to tackle snow and ice with ease. Stockholm-Arlanda, the biggest airport in Sweden, currently only has severe delays involving flights to Paris, London and Frankfurt and that is because of problems at those airports.

In fact, in the five decades since Stockholm-Arlanda opened, it has never closed because of snow, says Anders Bredfell, press relations manager with owner Swedavia. "Heavy snow itself if actually not a problem." However, strong side winds can cause problems.

The airport has 18 PSB (ploughing, sweeping, blowing) machines. These are followed by snow throwers which move the line of snow left by the PSBs. Behind these come friction measuring vehicles that test the likelihood of skidding on the runway.

But wherever you are, levels of disruption depend on how busy the airport concerned is. In an airport like Heathrow - much busier than Stockholm-Arlanda - which can often be operating at 98% of capacity, small amounts of disruption can cause rafts of cancellations.So I think we can see that it is not just the Brits caught out by this.

[Hotel Tango]

W2k, I don't quite know what to make of your post. Would your post have been of a different tone had you been the unlucky one to have his/her flight cancelled and then find that there were no seats on later flights and only one agent at the gate? I think you happened to be lucky - very lucky because the flight you had booked happened to operate.

[W2k]

W2k, I don't quite know what to make of your post. Would your post have been of a different tone had you been the unlucky one to have his/her flight cancelled and then find that there were no seats on later flights and only one agent at the gate? I think you happened to be lucky - very lucky because the flight you had booked happened to operate.
Neither the aircrew nor those at the gate can direct the weather, nor are they (in this case at least) responsible for flight cancellations. While I agree that being stuck for hours in a foreign airport with no ticket out is an intensely unpleasant experience, this really doesn't excuse being rude or abusive to people who are only trying their best to help within the limits of their capacity and authority. I was praising the LH staff and crew for maintaining a professional demeanor despite being yelled at by upset pax; I was not trying to make excuses for the fact that a lot of people had to sleep on terminal floors or stand in line for hours. Although I'm sure it's possible for the so-inclined to find someone to blame for that, it would not be the LH804 crew or gate staff.

[praa]

In February 2010, there was a similar snow chaos across much of Europe with many resulting delays and cancelled flights. I had to get to an event in Berlin and was lucky to be on one of the few flights that day that got there and even on time.
Over the next few days, as others finally got there from all over the world, I heard quite a few stories about what everyone had experienced - and some were very proud of the fact that because they'd put up such a fuss at Frankfurt or Heathrow or Paris, they'd been able to get preferential treatment or the last seat on a plane.
I'm sure they'd call it being pro-active in the face of incompetent airline ground staff. Others might call it plain rudeness.
So what are the tips for how to behave when the snow hits the fan? Does extreme assertiveness pay off? How can I find what the chances of a later departure might be? If I sort out my own accommodation instead of queuing for hours, will I get compensation? Any good advice out there?

[Capetonian]

Many people take out their anger on the person in front of them, overlooking the fact that even when it's the airline's fault, the individual employee is not to blame. I often begin a conversation with something like : "I do understand that it's not in any way your fault, but please understand why I'm annoyed.....", or "I know you don't make the rules but .....".

I find this gets more help than yelling at a usually innocent person.

If I sort out my own accommodation instead of queuing for hours, will I get compensation? Any good advice out there?

This is an interesting one. I missed a connection a year or so ago, on a through ticket, checked by phone that the carrier had booked me on the first available flight in the morning, and in order to avoid the massive queue of people waiting for hotels at their ticket desk, got into a taxi and went off to a small hotel near the airport which was considerably less expensive than the one they booked the other passengers into.

In due course I submitted the taxi, dinner, and hotel receipt for refund and it was only after protracted correspondence that they agreed to refund me, as 'a gesture of goodwill and without setting a precedent'. All this because I'd done it my way rather than their, saving their staff time and the airline money, but they didn't like this.

[Rwy in Sight]

Capetonian

Don't forget that the airline wants to save money or rather don't spend. The hotel you found might have been cheaper for a "walk in" reservation but more expensive the large hotel they booked.

I bet very few (of those inconvininenced (sp?) the last few days would complain if information and support from airlines were rapidly available but obviously that was not the case.

The issue is how far a pax should/must push to have his rights honored if weather blows his or her plan?

Rwy in Sight

[W2k]

In the event that I had to stay overnight and get new tickets, I would much prefer to simply find a cozy restaurant somewhere in the airport where I could sip on a beer while getting new tickets and a place to sleep sorted out via phone and laptop. Taxi to the hotel, print new boarding pass, a dinner, a shower and a good night's rest - vastly better then queueing for hours at the airport.

Of course there is the slight issue of getting the airline to pay for all of this later - but it seems to me that I would be in a much better negotiating position once home, fed and well-rested rather than after six hours in a queue at a foreign airport with no food and insufficient sleep.

That Capetonian did exactly this and got the airline to pay for it suggests that it's worth a shot the next time I find myself the victim of a cancelled flight. Thanks for sharing :ok:

[Capetonian]

The hotel you found might have been cheaper for a "walk in" reservation but more expensive the large hotel they booked.

Fair and valid comment, but in this case I am absolutely confident that my total bill would have been less than even the airline rate just for the room at the Intercontinental at the airport (and I know the rates they get as I was once involved in negotiating them!)

Even if they'd refused to pay, I had a good night's sleep whereas the poor sods who stayed at the airport only got a few hours, and had to stand in a queue. A good night's sleep, for me at least, is an almost priceless luxury.