FAA vs. JAA !! What should one choose!

[karan89er]

Hey Guys,
I am an aspiring pilot from India and I plan to go for my flight training next year in February. I have chosen a school in Florida, United States, but just recently a friend of mine told me that the FAA license is not going to be given due weightage among airlines in India, and the JAA license is going to be given preference. I just wanted to know if this is true and if yes, which schools can I opt for for a JAA license? Thanks in advance. :)

[IndAir967]

Hey Guys,
I am an aspiring pilot from India and I plan to go for my flight training next year in February. I have chosen a school in Florida, United States, but just recently a friend of mine told me that the FAA license is not going to be given due weightage among airlines in India, and the JAA license is going to be given preference. I just wanted to know if this is true and if yes, which schools can I opt for for a JAA license? Thanks in advance.

Do u hav an degree ?
If not get one (preferably an professional one).
If you do go get yourself an MBA from an reputed college (using the money
u planned to spend on aviation)

4000 people + are jobless. Dont repeat the mistake (unless your dad works
in an airline OR at dgca).

After spending 25 lakhs for CPL and going through all hardships to covert
their license in India and finally obtaining an Indian CPL , you have airlines
like indigo which mercilessly ask you to pay another 40,000 dollars for the
type rating which in my opinion is an absolute unfair act.

OR

You ll have to get yourself an Boeing 737 or Airbus 320 Type Rating by paying
another 20000 USDollars and still might end up not getting an job.

COST OF CONVERTING/OBTAINING AN INDIAN CPL - 50,000 Dollars
COST OF OBTAINING AN TYPE RATING - 20,000 Dollars.
Other Costs such as travelling for exams
and classes for conversion and RT - 5,000 Dollars.

Total Cost - 75,000 Dollars.

Result : Commercial Pilot Airplane Multi Engine Land Instrument Rating
Boeing 737 NG (Second In Command). (in 3 years from now)

Sounds Cool but given your time frame expect no less than 1000 people like
you who would be having an type rating on their license and waiting for an job. (ie apart from the 6000 people who are will have CPL with them)

Keep in mind Aviation Industry's trajectory is usually a sine curve after
peaking in 2005-2006 its again reaching its peak in 2010-2011 following
which there will be an down turn like in 2008-2009. With current peak we still have 4000 jobless pilots imagine what happens if we experience an downturn ?

Ps. I am not discouraging you its just I am guiding you right.

[karan89er]

Hi, thanks a lot for your input. Yes I have a degree in Management Studies and I also plan to do a correspondence course in BS.c Aviation. I agree that the costs of training are really high and there are virtually no jobs. But do you think I could get a job in other countries, such as the United Kingdom, USA or the Middle East? Last time I checked, the job situation in UK was improving.

[IndAir967]

United Kingdom !!
United States !!! those guys with thousands of hours are flocking
to asia and middle east for jobs forget it as an indian national u can
never work there.
Middle east ?? Emirates ?? Etihad ?? I am in middle east now.. and guys here need 4000 hours total time with 2500 hours on jets with greater than 30 Tonnes MTOW. The only place u can work with no significant experience is India.

[GlueBall]

If you are an Indian national and live in India, why would you not go to an Indian flight school and get your Indian pilot license and qualify for a pilot job in your country? Why add obstacles in your career path by seeking a "foreign" license? :ooh:

[karan89er]

I want to work in India, but I was wondering if I could get a job in other countries if I do not get one in my own. Also, I heard that the DGCA is going to give preference to the JAA license holders over the FAA holders. So pretty confused about what's really better.

[cyrilroy21]

I want to work in India, but I was wondering if I could get a job in other countries if I do not get one in my own. Also, I heard that the DGCA is going to give preference to the JAA license holders over the FAA holders. So pretty confused about what's really better.


The DGCA does not care where you get your license from ( beware of a philipines license though )

Although the DGCA exam syllabus is based on JAA standards :ugh:

Now difference between FAA and JAA

The JAA syllabus is more theory oriented (14 written exams) and less practical flying is involved :ugh:

The FAA syllabus is more practical oriented and less theory :D

You cant be employed anywhere in the U.S or Europe unless you already have the rights to work over there ( eg: green card or citizen )

The airlines or employers wont sponsor you . You can check the various airline websites to see what the requirements are .

However there are a few flying school in the U.S that give you an F1 visa . This will allow you to work over there at that flying school as an instructor for a maximum period of two years .

The Middle east requires experience on type to apply ( Qatar airways hires pilots as Second Officers if you have a bare cpl and pass you ATPL written papers once every year)

The Middle east also prefers JAA license for inexperienced pilots because they follow the JAA system
( except Saudi Arabia which follows FAA )

JAA schools are also twice as expensive as FAA . Infact you will find a a lot of Europeans learning to fly in the U.S because its cheaper and also good weather to fly year round . Most JAA schools also send their students the U.S for time building also

Here's my suggestion . Go to the US and get your FAA licenses . Then convert or write the 14 JAA exams . You can also convert and get a JAA license in the U.S itself .
That way you will have the best of of both worlds :)

Once you pass your JAA written exams then you can come back to India and give the dgca exams ( should be easy if you can pass the JAA exams )

I am not sure about airlines in India giving preference for JAA license but you still need to convert and obtain an Indian DGCA license to work in India and pass the interview and other assessments .

There are other options called cadet pilot programs wherein the airline sponsors you from scratch to obtain a cpl . After that you join the airline as second or first officer ( garunteed job )

1. Etihad cadet pilot ( the application closed in November 27 ,2010 rumored to open again sometime this year or next year )

2.Cathay Pacific Cadet pilot : Open since last year to International Applicants. Make sure you choose Hong Kong as your 1st preferred location for interview ( they wont come to India )

Hope this helps :ok:

[karan89er]

Wow, thanks a ton for all that information! It really helped clear some doubts. I guess I will do as you said, go to the USA get my FAA licenses and also convert to JAA and come back to India. Meanwhile, I will also look up the cadet training programs. Thanks again for the help. :ok:

[Touch'n'oops]

Hate to burst your bubble. But as a low hour pilot it will be near impossible for you to find work outside India. I know plenty of Europeans scratching around for jobs and they don't have the work permit problem. Those who have splurged on a type rating (Note I disagree with this practise, as everyone but the airlines ends up F**ked!) tend to end up in Asia first getting experience.

I am curious, I thought India's aviation industry is recovering after the rush that got out of hand after deregulation of the airlines?

As for the Sine Curve, rubbish! Aviation does cycle in and out of the good times, but you cannot predict the next downturn based on years past since the last. Looking at the Asian economies, they have hardly faltered through the west's financial turmoil. A new middle class is building in Asia and they want to travel. My personal view is that Asia will continue to expand aviation wise.

With regard to what license. Go ask a chief pilot. I'm sure you can find a Chief Pilot who will have a short chat with you if you go to the Airline's offices.
But, my two pence worth. After working with guys holding FAA tickets in LA, any muppet can get an FAA license, but it takes a skilled monkey to scrape a JAR license.:D

[rahulred5]

Word of advice - dont go for training. 18 year old wannabees wanting to fly without going through proper college is why we have so many unemployed sitting at home

[superdunkaroos]

cyrilroys post pretty much sums it up

The dgca doesn't care what license you get as long as you meet their minimum requirements

As far as the debate is concerned between the jaa and faa license that depends on where you want to work, if in India then either will suffice.

Another option would be Canada they have an ICAO license(similar to India) but their training(both ground and flight) is better than the united states although a bit more expensive.

And i love how people have started predicting the future of aviation sitting at their homes in their seats :)

All the best!

[karan89er]

Thanks a lot guys for all your inputs! What I personally believe about the situation at the job market is that it is opening up. With the passenger traffic rising at a rate of 14.4%, it is really hard to believe that the situation is going to worsen. And yes it is pretty funny seeing people predict the future of the Indian Aviation industry just sitting at home!

What ever the case, people are not going to stop becoming pilots. There is a downturn in each and every sector in the economy. Nowadays even an MBA has not much value out here in India, because I personally know a few people who have an MBA degree and have been jobless since 8 months now. Companies are still laying off people, though at a reducing rate. So the aviation sector is no different. It suffered it worst ever downfall from 2008-2009, but no one can predict how it will behave in the future. So I suggest everyone to keep a positive outlook about this and I'm sure this industry is going to become a lucrative one, with many job openings someday.

And Thanks to everyone for giving me information about the licenses. I think I will be following Cyrilros method. Cheers everyone! :ok:

[cyrilroy21]

Here's another suggestion

Get your FAA license and then convert and obtain the DGCA license .

That way you will be able to apply for jobs in India if and when they come up.

Once you have your DGCA license you can then convert to JAA at your own pace .

Kingfisher conducts classes for taking the JAA exams in Mumbai . You give the exams at the British Council and go to Europe for converting the IR

The reason I am saying this is because converting to a JAA license is expensive and may not payoff at all since you dont have the rights to work in Europe or anywhere outside India .

About the jobs . Dont forget that there are more than 4000-5000 if not higher number of people still waiting for their first job :eek:
Yes there will be jobs sooner or later by the time you finish but not the enough to absorb all these unemployed before you :sad:

So remember that the competition will be stiff :uhoh:

[karan89er]

@cyrilroy Yes I will keep that in mind mate, thanks. Thats the biggest tension on my head, and I cannot see myself doing anything else. Have done a management studies course as a backup, so lets see what happens. By the way are you a pilot?

[PT6A]

It has to be said that you could bypass many of the 5000 out of work CPL holders....

If your timing is right and you finish your training when airlines are hiring... If they are going to take a green pilot... It is better to take someone fresh from school rather than one who has been sat out of work for a year or more.

Just getting your CPL and then not flying for over a year is not the kind of pilot I would hire (I know it's not the pilots fault) but then again my training budget is not to teach someone how to fly from scratch again!

Would be better if India started to have real cadet pilots that go through a proper program and end with a job... It wont happen as there is too much corruption though.

PT6A

[karan89er]

Yes that could be a possibility, but then all the pilots who are out of work right now go in for recency after a certain period of time, in which they fly a certain number of hours on an aircraft to refresh their skills. But yes I agree there should be a cadet pilot programme, if not by the Government airline, private airlines like Kingfisher or Jet should look at that option. I hope they do so in the near future.

[PT6A]

Would need to be outsourced... And have nothing to do with the DGCA, as they are nothing more than a laughing stock.

But it starts at cadet selection... Is it possible to have a selection in India where people pass on ability not contacts? I don't think so.

PT6A

[adill]

hello karan,,so from where you are completing your pilot training in usa.bcoz i m also interested in pilot training in usa

[kush3370]

Aviation has been over flooded with the young, dynamic, determined, people like Mr.Karan, who asks for the advise while they already have decided to jump in.Regardless of the advise(be it a positive or negative) they get.

I have gone through this thread, and he is giving him self a whole lot of sympathy and nothing else, people are trying to guide him on the right way but Mr.Karan has blindly decided to jump in, when you explain them the current scenario, they compare it with the other field like an MBA and mentions that in every filed there are downturn.. stop comparing it i am telling you, being a jobless for 8 months is a point and not to see a cockpit ever again after completion of a training is another point. so u better stop comparing your MBAs and BSCs and BEs and all those sutffs with aviation.

asking a question about FAA vs JAA while probably not knowing 4 forces acting on an aircraft in flight, this is ridiculous...DGCA gives the preferance to JAA (LOL), grow up, go through whole southeast asia forum, it will clear all your doubts and then dare to ask something out of it.

[karan89er]

Hi Kush, dude you dont need to be so sarcastic. I am a person who has dreamt to become a pilot since a long time, and I am not one of those who just goes in for aviation or the glamour. So stop judging me. I hate those guys too who go into this field just for the money, and im not one of those. For your information, I have already joined a flight school in Florida. I am almost on the verge of completing my course. So you dont need to discourage me. Cheers.

[kush3370]

@Karan

I am not discouraging you at all, all i wanted to say was the reasons u are giving about why to join aviation and comparing it with 8 months jobless scenario on other fields are useless,
i am fed up listening those kind of reasons, in 90s there were also a downturn in aviation and i recently came across the pilot from kingfisher who finally got his very first flying job after 7 years since ever he finished his flight training. and he was one of those 90s victims.
So i am again telling you if someone is telling you or advising you about being ready to face anything and everything here in aviation, stop comparing it with other becholer courses, and more than 95% of people in this thread are pilots and i tell you what "they are in aviation for a quite a long time"...;..
i hope it makes sense now, u will gradually know what i meant and wont take it negatively.