Teaching tailweel and aeros with CRI

[markkal]

Hi folks,

There are many posts adressing the issue of FI(A) vs CRI, but am still confused and would like to get some help:

I hold an italian FI(A)R , and am neither interested nor have the time to get involved in ab initio training.

This means that I will never have the restriction removed, as long as I carry on with aeros and tailweel. No big deal, but I may well not have the minimum hours required for revalidation, that is precisely what is happening now.

Now I was wondering if getting a CRI instead would make things easier for the future.

I am pretty sure it would work for tailweel training, tailweel is not a "qualification".

Mountain flying, aeros, night flying, in countries like italy and france are "qualifications" and as such need to be added to the licence.

In Switzerland instead, a good friend of mine has been instructing mountain flying with a CRI for years and...Night flying too. That got revoked after a while. Why he was allowed to start and carry on with mountain flying with a CRI but not with night flying remains a mystery to me.

About aeros, inquiring with the Italian authorities was really quick, they dismissed it and seemed puzzled when I asked to substantiate the case.

I have contacted the DGAC in France (held a french licence for 25 years) and was told that it would not be possible to instruct night, mountain (!!!!), or aeros...without the FI.

CLASS Rating would indeed be ok for twin engine, single engine turbine, tailweel.

So here I am as confused as ever, maybe somebody can describe what is precisely meant by "Class" and the difference between a Class Rating and a Qualification !!!

[Whopity]

If you wait until April 2012 the EASA CRI will be able to train licensed pilots for Class and Type ratings; the EASA Aerobatics Rating, Mountain Ratings, and Towing ratings. That will apply across all European States whether the French DGAC like it or not.

Night qualification training is considered ab-initio or licence training and is therefore not within the privileges of a CRI. If however the pilot being trained for a Class rating and the CRI are both "Night Qualified" then there is no reason why some of the training could not be conducted at night.

In the UK the question is often asked if a CRI can teach aeros. At the moment it is not illegal because there is no aerobatic rating to qualify for. When the EASA aerobatic rating comes in for pilots then they are removing the teaching add-on for FIs!

Under EASA the requirement for experience for an FI drops from 100/30 hours to 50/15 hours. The UK implemented this 3 years ago.

[Worstebroodje]

Sorry to hijack the topic, but might I ask where I can find what will and what will not change with EASA in April 2012?

I hold a valid JAR FI, and am wondering what ratings would be useful to add before the new EASA rules will be in effect.

[Whopity]

You could start here (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easa.eu.int%2Fws_prod%2Fr%2Fdoc%2FNPA%2 FNPA%25202008-17b.pdf&rct=j&q=EASA%20NPa&ei=TKoGTfrCINGLhQfftIjuBw&usg=AFQjCNHKuhqU_uWEiK_lTVsTk8164oV7ww&sig2=qra1mDFk45OuzZYRhtfyIA&cad=rja)

[markkal]

Thanxx alot whopity for your info,

Now I would assume that for this to happen national authorities would no longer be in charge of issuing licences, in favor of a supranational entity like EASA. Failing this it is likely that it would take quite some time for countries to adapt and the mess would continue.

Can I also ask you if you could tell me the difference between "Type" and "Class" this would enable me to better grasp the whole picture..
;)

[BillieBob]

You're an FI and you don't know the difference between a type and a class? Give me strength!!

[Whopity]

Now I would assume that for this to happen national authorities would no longer be in charge of issuing licencesI think a lot of people made that assumption but it is not correct. EASA write the rules; National Aviation Authorities use those rules to carry out their normal regulatory function which includes the issue of licences.

JAR–FCL 1.215 Class ratings (A)
(a) Divisions. Class ratings shall be
established for single-pilot aeroplanes not
requiring a type rating

Type (of aircraft):
All aircraft of the same basic design,
including all modifications except those
modifications which result in a change of
handling, flight characteristics or flight crew
complement.

All Types are listed in in the EASA Documents. Classes are generic groups of aircraft e.g. SEP MEP TMG etc.
I would have considered this to be fundamental knowledge for a FI

[markkal]

Absolutely right, the answer to my queries from french and italian CAA's make me wonder about those differences.

According to JAR_FCL's then aeros would fall under the "Class type".

According to those I have spoken to, french say no, the italians are puzzled........

[FormationFlyer]

Whopity - agree with all you have said, but..

When the EASA aerobatic rating comes in for pilots then they are removing the teaching add-on for FIs
The latest PART-FCL CRD contains the following wording in FCL.905.FI:

(f)
a towing and/or aerobatic rating, provided that such privileges are held and the FI
has demonstrated the ability to instruct for that rating to an FI qualified in
accordance with (i) below;

Which suggests it will still be a no-aeros restriction unless lifted - I would imagine in a similar manner to as it is now.

[Whopity]

I don't think there will be a Restriction, that's a hangover from National days, the CAA has never complied with JAR-FCL in that respect because originally the software couldn't cope with the change.

The original proposal was to hold the rating and have 20 hours experience; now it appears there is a test but still no FI Aeros Course; not sue if the 20 hours experience is still there.