No Thomson recruitment for some time

[Bluebaron]

Just to keep you in the loop news from the top is no recruitment until at least late 2012. No commands til 2014.

[VJW]

Really? I heard something very different from someone senior within Thompson!

I was told that a couple months ago, so maybe it changed.

[OutsideCAS]

With you VJW - have heard also from a senior at Thomson that recruitment is now planned for next year - no recruitment was planned but seems things have changed slightly and a need next year is now driving recruitment in 2011.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

[Flightlevel001]

Heard from various sources within TOM the same... Recruitment likely Septemberish 2011... That gen is about 3 weeks old.

[Boeing 7E7]

Bluebaron's news comes from the latest TOM pilot news letter - so probably the most accurate news available. Great shame for those outside the airline as well as those inside, with the realisation that for many FOs, a command maybe over 17 year away!

[spottyemm]

Could this be a 'divide and conquer' tool? I can see the opening gambit at next years pay negotiations... 'hey guys let us close that expensive final salary pension and we will expand thus letting you FOs get a command in the next couple of years'.

Don't suppose many of the ex Air 2bob guys who cant get on the FS pension would be too bothered if this situation came to pass.

[wannabe024]

I think there will be some recruitment. Numbers are cut to the bone and I'm sure that at least a handful of current FO's will be going to BA / Virgin etc.

[DooblerChina]

Maybe a few to BA, not Virgin - reduction in TCs;)

The article in question was the most pessimistic view, assuming no change in fleet size, no early retirements, no PHI, no one leaving for pastures new and everyone returning from career breaks. Any of these changes (which they will) and of course doors will be open.

The management are being very down on everything at the min, trying to get folk out of the door, not a bad tactic if recruitment was hot but alas....

DC

ps, if and when recruitment starts, don't expect popular bases, NCL will be my bet.

[wobblyprop]

The article also assumes that Thomson's fleet doesn't get smaller

[DooblerChina]

true

dc

[dashhead]

Recruitment was planned for Autumn 2011 due 787 deliveries in Jan/Feb/Mar 2012. Whether that get's delayed due to the current production problems, who knows?

There were rumblings of a small amount of recruitment Spring 2011, probably via CTC or the other Intergrated schools. Figures depend on how many leave for BA.

Expect, when it does happen, to be summer only contracts, most likely not permanent, and forget anything you see on PPJN re Ts and Cs. They're already dropping hints about a new contract for joiners with lower salary, possibly no increments and less days off per month.

Also expect NCL, CWA and possibly EMA/BHX. LGW and MAN are full.

Everything at the moment is about cost reductions and reducing the summer/winter imbalance

[wannabe024]

Seems like people are starting to leave for BA & Virgin.

There are a few leaving dates appearing on the seniority list.

[Callsign Kilo]

Also expect NCL, CWA and possibly EMA/BHX. LGW and MAN are full.

Would GLA be considered a popular base?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Doobler
How can you say NCL isn't a popular base, Geordie Girls are the best CC by a country mile (with GLA not that far behind) :ok:
That aside plenty of Pilots would jump at going to Thomson grass is green job

[DooblerChina]

Ha! that made me laugh, just echoing the fact that the company has failed to fill it for years, no-one ever volunteers to go there.

Callsign Kilo, GLA popular I reckon.

Update: 30 rumoured to be leaving.

[acepilotmurdock]

I would love to fly for Thomson and be based at NCL...have to agree...both Crew and Cabin crew are top people....fingers crossed :ok:

[Fly Better!]

Surely the ones who were made redundant will be first in line for any jobs?

I have heard some of the career break guys want to come back?

[JB007]

That will be the case Fly_Better!

[Pin Head]

great company if you are senior - truley bad company if you are junior. With no movement high up in the ranks this situation will remain for many years. Senior boys yearly get all nice leave, all nice trips, all lucrative winter secondments and summer temporay basing. Good for a rating and thats about it really!

[Baron buzz]

Fly Better! - Whilst it is true that some of the career break pilots are returning (not all it has to be said), those that were forced from the company have absolutely NO right of return agreement. They were told by the company that they would have to undergo the full recruitment process that everyone else would be subjected to.

Whether this actually happens remains to be seen. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is some last minute recruitment at TOM this summer when some of the FO's are given start dates at BA/Virgin.

[JB007]

Despite the 'hard line' from a certain other website, my booting out interview was the opposite of Baron_Buzz's posting!

Whether any choose to return will have to be seen, all, from what I can see, are doing very well...and Charter Airlines are now like trying to sell Video Recorders...give it 10/15 years from now..????

[Baron buzz]

JB007,

Are you saying that you have guaranteed right of return over external recruitment?

:confused:

[JB007]

Dropped you a PM BB!

[Tango2]

"great company if you are senior - truley bad company if you are junior. With no movement high up in the ranks this situation will remain for many years. Senior boys yearly get all nice leave, all nice trips, all lucrative winter secondments and summer temporay basing. Good for a rating and thats about it really!"

Not completely true Pinhead, leave and long haul are bid for and allocated on a points basis, seniority only comes into it if two or more are bidding for the same trip/leave

[Callsign Kilo]

Any internal news of goings on in the future hiring of Boeing drivers?

[DooblerChina]

Where to start......

Lots of behind the scenes negotiation re our pay claim this year, rumour has it we may be bringing in new, flatter, pay scales for new joiners TBC! New pension deal has just been voted through meaning FOs with long service left will see the biggest cuts. Top heavy on Captains, 10+ years to command.

As a result considerable numbers rumoured to be leaving for mainly BA plus a few others. This would screw the program for this Summer as our esteemed management decree there will be no fat whatsoever.

Career break folk have been asked back early without any penalty.

There is a possibility of some recruitment earlier rather than later, it depends how many actually leave, I would expect a mix of cadets and experienced 73 drivers possibly on Summer only contracts.

Good luck.

[DooblerChina]

great company if you are senior - truley bad company if you are junior. With no movement high up in the ranks this situation will remain for many years. Senior boys yearly get all nice leave, all nice trips, all lucrative winter secondments and summer temporay basing. Good for a rating and thats about it really!"

Rubbish!!

Learn how the leave/carmen/LHaul bidding systems work and maybe you too will never work Christmas!! 7 xmas's in a row, 2 Haj's, 1 Canada contract & Im off to Goa this week for 5 days.

Bottom 5th of the list. Don't blame the systems just because you don't know how they work.

DC

[Kilo-club SNA]

Wow, that's great advice!

So the only thing I have to do then is to figure out how to bid longhaul, Hajj and contracts.

Well let's see, no Longhaul on my fleet, certainly no Hajj and as far as contracts go they are evenly distributed among the 10 most senior F/O!

Quite a few of us are truly at the mercy of what carmen produces and that can be very hit and miss.

Enjoy Goa ( truely no sarcasm, I just wish I could as well)

[Pin Head]

DC

Bit out of order mate. Yes you can Xmas off but all the other goodies DO go senior.

Warning to all new starters. Yep you get a shiny jet but nothing to get excited about for at least 7yrs

yours

pin (still waiting for my Carmen training and how it really works)

[DooblerChina]

PinHead,

sorry if I offended you, I just get frustrated when people blame our bidding systems when I don't think they are that bad. Seniority obviously has some effect, I don't have a problem with that, I just bid knowing what I can achieve. For example, I never bid for Summer leave so i know Ill get 2 out of every 3 Xmas' off, a tactical LH bid on the third and Bobs your uncle. Is that selfish? I don't think so, I've never had the delights of a week off in August or July.

Kilo, I suppose we are slightly luckier on the 756. Really the point I am trying to make is that seniority has little effect on our day to day life, and new joiners shouldn't be put off just because they won't get a Summer temporary base or a Winter contract.

Sorry for the thread creep.

DC

[oceanhawk]

Double China,
I agree, i am in the bottom 10 % of the list hanging onto the 756 by the skin of my teeth, I am sure the 737 awaits me next year. I have no major issues with the system either. I get enough weekends off, even in the summer, Good success with longhaul bidding, school holiday leave this summer, Christmas leave this year ,thats 3 xmas' off in a row now with some tactical bidding. Yes, Carmen produces some undesirable roster patterns,but i have no major gripes.
Better than working for a living.

[Donkey Duke]

Can someone please give an example of one of those poor rosters? And Doobler, why is it five days in Goa? Do you have to stop somewhere enroute? Where are some of the more interesting layovers for you guys? Which is most senior or least senior? Cheers!

DD

[DooblerChina]

Goa is only served by two flights a week, MAN & LGW. Therefore depending on the schedule, a crew could have anything from 24 hours to 6 days. Its the same in Mombassa, Male, Aruba plus a few others. In contrast, our most popular destinations, CUN, Orlando, Dom Rep, there are loads of flights from all over the country so 24 hours stops are more common.

We get a long haul bid 6 times a year and the trips vary massively. Most Summer work is 1 or 2 nights in the Caribbean or Orlando whereas Winter is a real mix. Lots of 2 - 5 day trips, Barbados is a favourite, last time i went, there were 4 crews for four days, as it ties in with the cruise ships. Add in the adhoc stuff, we crewed a 76 for the Scandies all Winter so everyone got a shot at a 9 day Phuket. Its a good mix but in all honesty, don't expect it to stay that way. All future recruitment i would expect to be on the 737. Soz.

Donkey D, not sure what you mean about seniority, all trips are open to every one, the most difficult to obtain are the 5/6 day Orlandos. Having said that I did one last year and I'm quite junior.

Regards,

DC

ps, Oceanhawk, cheers.

[Donkey Duke]

DC,

Thanks for the response. In the Summer do you guys do Canada too, or do you do more 1 day trips to Canaries and Greece? Is it easy to pick up open trips to places like CUN or MCO, or are they gone quickly? Do the 737s do layovers or mainly out and back day trips? And where are your most senior bases, vs most junior? Cheers!

DD

[Yorkshire-Pud]

Now we all know that even 2 weeks is a long time in aviation and things change moment to moment but word from Thomson HQ is no further recruitment expected for at least 12 months - I called them last week

[biminiflyer]

yorkshire

dont bet on it,if the expected numbers resign that are being mentioned here and elsewhere they will have to recruit around october time,that from the management.

Its wait and see for the moment,i think they will have to...but thats just my opinion

bf

[rjay259]

From the other side, ie the "fisher price" fleet.

I have had two weekends off since January, all weekends have been to CMF, I bid to not go there but all other F/O's considered "experienced" bar a few are given other flights. Even called me on leave to go there. During the week my roster is kind of protected so i can go to CMF. I know the dispatchers and fuellers by name.
Flying in the winter is poor unless you get a detachment. Summer is very tiring, minimum days off and never a chance to get flexi (to bloody tired to even want to bid for it).

All flights are generally returns apart from a few SSH flights where its slipped and its only flight crew that stay. Some guys stayed in SSH so often that they got to know people by name to, going to SSH once a week ain't so nice after a while.

Bidding doesn't work for me at all (bottom 10%), on the 737 fleet seniority rules for bidding. F/O's getting priority over Capt. RHS flying is a farce, have lost count of number of times that I have spoken to someone when I or a couple of other F/O's could have flown it. Cant send any more emails to the head of Carmen and rostering to point it out.

The crews on the fleet are very very good, more relaxed and friendly. Most CC prefer the 737 as the FD are much nicer (their words not mine).

I've been trying to bid onto the 756 since I joined the company, alas to junior.
Was told that all new joiners would be onto the 737 when i started but was surprised to see guys and girls joining onto the 756. Kick in the teeth.

Ocean, you will be welcomed onto the fleet when you do eventually come to it. Its a plane that makes you think tho.

Best regs.

259:cool:

[Baron buzz]

[QUOTE] Perhaps if things are so bad then you guys should have stood by the guys who were made redundant last year [QUOTE]

What an interesting idea!

When I was at TOM, the bidding system was variable. For me, it never worked, so I stopped using it. As did most people I knew, but then I flew in the regions and Carmen was much more productive at the larger bases.

My opinion is that any new joiners will go to the 737, and will not see any long haul for quite some time. Bases are likely to be CWL/NCL/GLA etc although they were under crewed when I was there, that may well have changed. I also expect them to do what TCX are doing and offer summer only work to begin with but hopefully i'll be proven wrong in that regard.

ATB

[nick14]

How does EMA and BHX fair for crew? I'm a local lad looking for some stability with a long term career airline around the midlands so I can have a good home life with the wife.

Cheers

[frozenpilot]

Nick,

Having now flown for both TOM and TCX I would say expect very little stability in the charter market. As soon as the economy or political issues flare up you will have management banging on about Pilot surplus and most winters wanting to reduce the establishment. They are also trying to address these summer/winter imbalances and really don't want any permenant full timers. Of course if you get in during expansion and ride your time at the bottom of a list you will have a very enjoyable career.

Historically Midland bases are very difficult to come by so expect to spend a few years else where before you get your base bid

[Penworth]

Thomson? A career airline? Ask the 100 or so experienced first officers thomson's management got rid of last year to achieve their bonuses their view on that!

[dashhead]

There will be 8 757s left in 4 years. 22 new 738s coming over next 2 years - no additional aircraft just replacing Bus and 757. Bus gone by end of summer 2012.

ALL recruitment will be on 738, as 200 pilots will be directed onto this fleet from the 756 and Bus over next 2 years.

Highly unlikley to be permanent contracts - summer only and probably cadet/pay as you fly - basically whatever Management can get away with - which seems quite alot at the moment.

There will be new pay structure with (i think) 2 increments only (year 5 and 10), TBC shortly. Pension - money purchase.

Time to command - somwhere between 15 years and never, depending on whether the Airline reduces down to a 40 aircraft all year operation with buy in from thrid parties for the summer lift. Who knows? Only thing that could change this is the rate of attrition - which if the response to BA's October recruitment was anything to go by could be quite high. Main problem is too many Captains (fall out from the Low Cost project which closed after merger) and relatively young profile in the LHS.

Bases - DSA, CWL, NCL. Forget MAN and LGW.

Roster - you'll be doing max hours over summer - 540 in 6 months. IF you can suss out Carmen you can have some influence over when and where you fly. Winter won't be an issue as you won't be employed then.

Career Airline - no way hose! But its a jet, and interesting flying.

[frozenpilot]

Having been made redundant from TOM last year, I personally have no desire to return. Speaking to mates there I had heard things were on the slide but freezing pay scales and pay to fly will kill the Airline morale dead in the water!! I heard there were 60 pilots with offers from BA, is that true

[oceanhawk]

60 seems excessive, probably more like 10 to 20.

[nick14]

Any ideas on career airlines that give you a decent home life? I'm with FR at the moment and cannot wait to leave.

[DooblerChina]

I think recruitment is coming and a lot sooner than we think. Pay offer out today. Decent uplift to current scales at the expense of new scales for new joiners. New FO salaries, 52k start rising to 62k after 5 years, as long as considered command standard. (details to follow)

If no recruitment, why the rush to sort out new scales?

watch this space.

[Pin Head]

maybe but the new joiners pay scales were possibly used as a bargaining tool for better scales for those already there.

[Iver]

Are you guys still getting 787s (if they ever finish the testing)? What will happen with your current 767 fleet?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Hi Penworth
I was told by a THOM friend that the Airline Mgmt didn't get the bonus are you sure (Thomson Board apparently did, conquer and divide even at the top):\

[EGCC4284]

I'm alright Jack attitude seems to be backfiring now

Pilots from Canada will be working in the UK bases this summer

Like I said 18 months ago on the BALAP website, AIR2000 pilots hated their management

Thomson, what a good company :mad: by greed

[Beavis and Butthead]

Mr Angry

Like Penworth, it was also my understanding that 'Synergy Bonuses' were paid. Synergy includes redundancy of workforce. :mad:

[DooblerChina]

Big bonuses, its all available on the TUI website. 400k for top dog seems to ring a bell.

[DEXY]

I have to say I think the management thoroughly deserve their bonuses this year. We voted to get rid of the defined benefit pensions that over half the workforce enjoyed and got absolutely nothing in return - truly amazing. I guess people voted for this because they thought the manangement would offer a generous pay deal. How naive can you be?

It was vaguely amusing when the the pay offer came out - pay freeze with a integrated trojan horse in the form of a second pay scale. Nothing like guaranteeing a civil war within the pilot workforce in 10 years or so. If you want to be the worst paid B787 Captain in the world then the new scale is for you.

The management are just doing their job, it's up to us to defend ours.

[Narrow Runway]

I would imagine that actually, if you want to be the worst paid 787 FO for two decades, then the new scale is for you.

[Airbus Girl]

Pay offer = pay freeze? Um no, it was lower than RPI (currently at 5.5%) and also we had to give up free shares and vote on a new lower payscale, which undoubtedly will be forced upon existing pilots, probably when the Germans buy the rest of the company shares. Plus we still have a huge imbalance of Captains - something like 60 or 70 more Captains than FOs, and although the management tell us we have just the right number of pilots for the summer, you can guarantee that we'll be short. Well it has happened like that every year I've been working for the company!!!

[rotafix]

I like others where shafted last year by both the company, balpa and our colleagues. Nobody in that company is interested in anything except themselves. After the merger the tone of the company changed from one of being a career airline to one of whats in it for me.

As far as I can see, everything that is going on is self inflicted.

[Vrille]

In all fairness to the aviation world, it's looking like terms and conditions for the middle class are going down full stop. God knows where this diabolical spiral will lead us eventually ................ :eek:

[BlackandBrown]

I hear cabin crew are being made redundant - are any pilots?

[fireflybob]

Any ideas on career airlines that give you a decent home life? I'm with FR at the moment and cannot wait to leave.

nick14 - a career airline that gives you a decent home life - sounds like the ultimate oxymoron.

If you want a decent home life best become a shepherd on a hill but you certainly won't find it as a pilot in the airline business now!

[Bluebaron]

Pilot numbers are slightly below requirements for summer 12. That said no recruitment is likely in 2012. Possiby small number in late 13.

The company want to introduce new pay scales for new hire pilots. Something the current pilot workforce is resisting. Unfortuantley this is holding back recruitment but should benefit pilots when they do join.

Catch 22 basically!

[capt.storm]

UPDATE:
Looks like we will be looking for 12 CTC cadets for the summer.

Be advised though that BALPA are not happy about this, the company has decided not to offer 12 new pilots the T&C's they deserve.

Without making this a CTC slag off thread. CTC cadets excepting to work for less than current pilots will ultimatly only achieve to drive down the T&C's of the exsisting workforce.

As such don't expect a warm welcome....................

If nobody applied then we will recruit 12 pilots on Full salary with type rating paid for and full Pension,health care etc etc.

[spider_man]

Plenty of type rated experienced folk in the UK looking for work! I see Monarch have taken a load of cheap CTC cadets too. Seems the only way to get an FO job in the UK these days is through obtaining a CTC mortgage. Hard luck for those already with many hours on Boeing or bus and a full atpl.

Will these guys be paying 9k for their TR then working(?) 8 months of line training earning £1,200 per month like at EZY? Is Flexiscrew coming to TOM too? :ooh:

[Field In Sight]

Monarch have taken 1/2 CTC and half experienced i.e ex-Astreus and Thomas Cook pilots.

[macdo]

If anyone with an 75 rating is looking for a 6 month summer contract, Thomas Cook are looking for several people, this from the CP yesterday.

[Fredairstair]

They may not get a "warm welcome", but I'm sure they will be treated professionally and with respect.

[Moneyjunkie]

"dont expect a warm welcome"....

I would suggest that the existing experienced Cmdrs instead simply tell the company that they will not fly with these guys until they are payed as they are soposed to be payed according to your agreement...
Dont point your fingers at the new guys for ruining this buisness... they are not the ones who ruined it... WE DID by allowing this to happend.. but i guess it takes less balls to kick downwards on the new guys instead of facing the fact that the WE, the experienced guys, did not stand UNITED...

[Guzzler]

it takes less balls to kick downwards on the new guys instead of facing the fact that the WE, the experienced guys, did not stand UNITED...

For sure. I agree 100%

If I thought there was a chance of winning I would urge a fight but too many people are apathetic and I fear there will be no resistance.

I guess I am as guilty as the next man. I know it's wrong but I am too feeble to stand up and be counted.

[Penworth]

Of course not. Compared to cadets on temporary contacts, we'd cost far too much to re-employ (ie. reduce the directors bonuses). Never mind that they gave an assurance that we would be considered first if there was to be any recruitment prior to April 2013. :mad:

[rjay259]

Penworth, you guys are not forgotten and we are trying our hardest to make sure you are still invited back first when the doors do open.
None of us appear happy with what the company have done, I'm not but am sure that the cc are working on a plan.

Keep on watching.

[Weary]

Captains have and will forever have the real power.


Built4speed, you must be residing in dreamland as well, then.

The company controls command opportunities - who they want, and when they want - and - there is nothing particularly to stop them recruiting cheap contract Captains for leverage.
Only the resolve of a united workforce can influence events.

[Black Pudding]

That's your First Choice Air 2000 management for you. Predicted this 3 years ago. They are going to fill the place with CTC over the next 5-10 years and then they are going to divide and conquer. Like I said on the BALPA website 3 years ago, Air 2000 First Choice pilots have hated their management for the last 10 years and always told me what a bunch of b@stards they were ? Worst thing that ever happened to Britannia, Thomson was have Air 2s management put in charge. They don't give a **** about anyone. They have not even had the courtesy to call any of the 100 + who was made redundant in early 2010 to see if they wanted summer only contract ? Shame on them and shame on all who sit there fat dumb and happy thinking "I'm alright Jack, does not affect me" Well give it 5-10 years and it will. Nothing against CTC or cadets, just the management who think its acceptable to carve the job to the bone, then use and abuse cheap labour.

I predict, that at the end of summer, these guys will be offered contracts on different terms to you and that will be the beginning of the end.

You will soon be another easyJet Ryanair



You lot need to get a grip now before its too late

[Fredairstair]

I always liked black pudding.