a chance for Ukrainian guy to become a pilot

[dude from UA]

Hello there.
My name is Alex. I'm 28. I live in Ukraine. Since my childhood I want to become a pilot, finally I can afford it. For a long time I'm trying to choose between different flight schools in different parts of the world. For those who doesn't know, Ukraine is the largest country on the European continent, but unfortunatelly has a very immature aviation industry. Since there is no chance to get any job with national license, I decided to get a JAR licence in one of the EU country. I opted for Poland. It's more cheaper to compare with Germany or UK or Holland etc (the price is about 42.000 Euro). In addition, I know the language (I mean Polish). There is a nice proposition from one of the academies - they propose a flight instructor job after ATPL course, to have 400 hours in the end. By taking this path I will lose all my savings, so I really have to be sure that this is the right decision. Therefore, I'm looking forward to any advise or comment on this issue. One more question is - do I have a chance to find a job in EU or perhaps in Asia after graduation.

[redsnail]

Dobra dyen,
Please excuse my very poor Russian, your English is much better than my Russian.

With respect to work in Europe, you'll need some form of visa to work in a European country. Asia is a possibility but generally, they do require a lot of experience prior to getting a job.
It sounds like a "Catch-22" situation. No job so no hours, no hours because of no job.

Russia is looking to expand it's business jet market and also it's airlines. I dare say Ukraine will expand as well. So a pilot who can speak English and Russian will be a sought after person.

There is no guarantee in this industry. As many are finding out. Before spending any money, I would visit your doctor to rule out diabetes. I would then visit your local eye doctor to make sure you're not colour blind and that your eyes don't need much vision correction (ie strong glasses). That is a much cheaper way than going to a EASA approved doctor.

Another thing, have you considered going to the US to train for a FAA licence? You'll have to convert your licence back in Ukraine any way. This will be a lot cheaper than training in Europe plus your English will be greatly improved. Ok - it'll be American English. :)

[dude from UA]

First of all, thank you for such a quick respond.
I already visited all doctors - everything seems fine.
US is not an option since there is no chance to stay in the country after the education is done.
Thanks for the good prognosis about Ukraine, but it looks like european companies will fill out all the gaps in our market. That is why I want to have the JAA licence.
About Visa issue, I expect to obtain a Polish residence permit wich will allow me to live and work in EU. As far as I see, it is not gonna help me unless I have some hours in my log. That is why I'm asking is there any way to accumulate needed hours and how does it look like?

[redsnail]

OK, fair enough with respect to the FAA lic. It is used a lot in the bizjet world though. If you can get residency in Poland then the EASA/JAA license is the way forward for you.

At the moment, it is still a tough market for pilots. It is slowly improving which is good.

The best thing you can do is work as hard as you can on your license, get the best grades possible, make contacts and continue to improve your English.
Some one who can speak English and Russian as well as understanding aviation is a real asset. I would also look at working at a fixed base operator at Boryspil, Warsaw, Riga (etc) if the instructing job finishes.

There is no guarantee, I can't give you one. Who knows what the market will look like in 2 or 3 year's time. Hopefully better than it looks now.

Before signing any thing, don't give them all your money up front, find out what you will get and what is extra. Eg, extra flying, text books, briefings, landing fees etc.

[MartinCh]

having Polish residence and work rights as non-EU national does not confer any rights to work for non-Polish company/carrier.

He should be fine for instructing and working within Poland, though.

It's not true one can't get work visa/permit after training in the US. It used to be called aviation J1, now it's F1 due to US govt agencies not agreeing between each other. Almost the same, just different name and bit more limitations. No guarantee of job, but an opportunity.

As redsnail mentioned, you may want to have FAA papers for the option to fly N-reg bizjets once you have bit more flight time.

There is supposed to be a demand for FIs in Poland, so even if you do your training in the US, after converting licence (exams, short training as required for CPL and min 15hrs for IR rating, most of which can be in sim), you could still take advantage of Polish instructor job market.

Schools promise heavens to get punters. Choose on other grounds, quality, price, location, suitability for you etc. It's true that your Aviation English would improve thanks to studying in the US.

BTW, I only know one 'train and instruct' FTO in the US first hand, but there are few in Florida as well. Definitely within your budget and plans, although the conversion could be extra cost - not as bad as doing it in the UK system, though.

[dude from UA]

---to MartinCh: Thanks for advise, but may be better to get a JAA licence and then convert it to FAA if needed by the market demand.

[aus_aviatior]

Privet!
I know this is an old thread, but I will offer my 2 cents.
I did my pilot training in Australia, and to this day I regret it. Actually right now I am in the process of doing my 14 JAA subjects, its costing me alot!
So my advise if you haven't started already, is do a JAA course. It might cost a bit more, but its pretty much the only license that is accepted all over the world (FAA don't but their ATP is a piece of cake).
Now, I have a question for you.
My Fiance is from Ukraine and while we live happily here in Australia right now (we are getting married next year some time), we have considered moving back there.
My Russian is so so. I would say an intermediate level, but I don't speak a word of Uki.
Is there any chance of getting a job with a company over there without Russian fluency or Uki citizenship?
I have about 1600hrs, most of that is on turbo props, the rest on piston twins/singles. I have a 737-200 type endorsement too.
What do you know?

[747JJ]

There are quite a few Ukrainians flying in China, have been in Vietnam and I know one that is flying in Europe.

Wizzair employs Ukrainians with Wizz Ukraine on the A320 and Wizzair has atleast one Ukrainian low time pilot working in Europe, Poland that is, on a Polish D-Visa.

So it is not impossible but takes a bit of work. I think the hardest part will be to try to convert your licence to a Ukrainian one. My licence was validated several times by the Ukrainian CAA but they seemed reluctant to do this with their own nationals preferring to have individuals convert to a local ATPL.

Hope this helps, just let me know if there's anything else I can help you with. If you are in Kiev, I will be flying there today and staying pretty close to the Maidan. Coffee at Double Coffee in Globus if you want to chat :}

[747JJ]

Hi aus-aviator

Chances are there. First hassle is a work permit, you can do without it for a while but you need it, or a residence permit. For the latter you have to be married for 2 years.

Several companies there looking for expat pilots Aerosvit for one needs people for their expanding 767 operation. Time and experience on type required, considerable experience that is. Wizzair Ukraine has had foreigners flying there on validations. Again you would need to have an A320 type and time on it.

As for entry level jobs. These are non-existent. Aviation for such a large country is in it's infancy but with huge potential.

I'll ask around in Kiev today.

[aus_aviatior]

747JJ, sounds as tho there are headaches to be had but also some opportunity around. Can't do coffee as unfortunately I left Kiev and went back to Australia 5 days ago :(. Great city.
I looked at the likes of Aerosvit, time on type is an issue. I have no jet time (unless you count the B737-200 sim time from the endorsement. Heaps of turbo prop time but as far as I can tell there is one SAAB 340 knocking around, few AN's and thats it in Kiev.
Did you manage to find anything out in Kiev?
Cheers for your help.
Aviatior