View Full Version : The Men Who would Pollute the Jetstar Culture

4th Dec 2010, 02:56
These brave experienced professional pilots are the men Qantas management refers to as bus drivers.The very men who would pollute the JetStar culture.
Its the sort of pollution most airlines can only dream about.Not only did they land a stricken aircraft but saved the lives of 400 people and what remains of the tarnished Qantas reputaion.
Gentlemen I bow to you and say job well done.
THE crew of a crippled Qantas airliner averted disaster last month.
As the crew of Flight QF32 began to reconfigure the damaged A380 aircraft for landing in Singapore, they were bringing in the superjumbo without many of the systems they took for granted and with only one engine functioning normally.

Only theNo 3 engine had reverse thrust, no leading edge slats were available, there was limited aileron and spoiler control and anti-skid braking was restricted, an Australian Transport Safety Bureau report said yesterday.

The nose wheel steering was limited and the pilots knew the nose was likely to pitch up on landing. A message from the airliner's central monitoring system indicated they could not apply maximum braking until the nose wheel was on the runway.
The pilots had already conducted tests to reassure themselves they could control the aircraft. But the captain knew he had to get the speed exactly right to avoid an aerodynamic stall that would rob the plane of lift or see it career off the end of the runway.

Calculations were that they would have just 100m of runway left when the A380 came to a halt and computer messages indicated two more of the four engines had been affected by the disintegration of the No 2 engine.

This left the captain using the No 1 and 4 engines to provide symmetric thrust while controlling the aircraft's speed using the unaffected No 3 engine.

The five crew -- there were two extra captains on board -- had already spent almost an hour dealing with a flurry of error messages that began as shrapnel from the No 2 engine tore through the wing, cutting wiring, hydraulic and fuel systems.

They had more than 72,000 hours flying time between them and they worked through the potential contingencies, including worries the aircraft was leaking fuel. They had been unable to activate the fire extinguishers on the damaged engine and had difficulties balancing out the fuel.

As the aircraft descended, the autopilot disconnected and, after an attempt to reconnect, the pilot opted to fly the plane manually. The cabin crew was told to prepare for runway overrun and evacuation as the aircraft touched down. The captain applied maximum braking and reverse thrust in the No 3 engine. The deceleration initially appeared slow but it eventually stopped 150m short of the runway end.

The crew was hailed yesterday for their handling of the crisis. "The aircraft would not have arrived safely in Singapore without the effective action of the flight crew," ATSB chief commissioner Martin Dolan said.

The report came as Qantas said inspections overnight had not found any issues with oil pipes on its two operating A380s and they had resumed service.

The ATSB issued a safety alert calling for inspections after investigators determined an oil leak that led to a damaging fire inside the engine probably stemmed from fatigue cracking in the thin side of an unevenly bored oil tube.

The ATSB recommended inspections of engines within two flights with a borescope to see whether the tube was deformed. Mr Dolan said the problem would not be picked up in normal maintenance and investigators had not found any maintenance-related issues with the engine.

Court documents yesterday revealed Qantas would accuse Rolls-Royce of misleading and deceptive conduct relating to the performance of its engines if it proceeded with legal action. The documents said under current circumstances, an A380 on the Los Angeles route would be typically limited to 80 passengers, and not the 450 plus freight it carried prior to the incident.

4th Dec 2010, 04:29
Not in your wildest dreams could a checky throw all this at you in the Sim. When you see the list of error messages they worked through you realize what an awesome job these guys/girls did.

It's a shame the cvr was over written because I'd love to hear how the crew dealt with this. The air crash investigators on this one will be one to watch.

Well done!

Frank Burden
4th Dec 2010, 05:40
As stated elsewhere, the senior management should give their annual bonuses to the tech crew on this flight. They have done more for the Qantas brand than GD or AJ could every achieve given two lifetimes.

I salute aviation professionals who not only fly an aircraft safely during normal operations but can manage a situation with multiple emergencies and have the depth of knowledge and training to bring it home with no loss of life.:D:D

4th Dec 2010, 06:27
perfect management, 100% use of resource with out a crash! sort of.
Bonus's and payrises still intact.:ok:
Nothing to see here, to quote Lesley Neilson

4th Dec 2010, 07:15
Wow, wow, wow! Really great job by the crew! Now that's THEIR JOB and ALWAYS A PILOT'S JOB when things go pear shape in such contraptions.

teresa green
4th Dec 2010, 09:56
Not bad for "overpaid bus drivers," Bob Hawke 1989, "trumped up blue collar workers" Buchanan JQ CEO 2010. You pair of ars%holes.

4th Dec 2010, 10:16
Any Qantas Executive who wishes to malign Qantas Pilots and characterizes them as glorified drivers will have to be either very stupid or very stupid.
This is why Commercial Jetline Pilots get paid the bucks.If only once in their flying career they are confronted with a catastrophe such as the QF32 and everyone walks away then they have earnt every cent they have ever been paid.
The responsibilty for so many lives is inherent in no other profession.One Bank CEO earns $16million and never ever has to save one life but brings heartache and suffering to many.
In our human existence the remuneration we pay some individuals is quite often not commensurate with the responsibility.
If my wife and children can travel safely on an aircraft flown by men and women of such skill as displayed by those pilots of the QF32 I dont care if they are paid $5mill a year.They deserve every cent

Zapatas Blood
4th Dec 2010, 15:15
A job well done by the QF crew.

It appears that some here make the assumption that only QF crew could have handled the situation.

There are many talented experienced pilots at JQ that would have yielded the same results.

At CX and SQ and KA and ......ect

4th Dec 2010, 15:42
Zapatas, perhaps you are unaware of the history of the "cultural pollution" comments. Many years ago, AJ, as j* CEO remarked that he did not want QF pilots flying for j* "polluting the culture". Given that QF pilots generally strive to operate conservatively, aim for the highest standards, it was taken that management wanted the antithesis of this for the j* operation.

So, please don't get your nose out of joint, indeed there are many fine aviators in all the operation you mentioned & a lot of other places too, this is a swipe at management for belittling what QF pilots do, not the pilots of j*.

Brilliant job to the QF32 crew.

The Kelpie
4th Dec 2010, 18:59
Perhaps Senator Heffernan should ask Joyce what he meant by the 'polluting the culture' comment when he appears before the senate enquiry in February.

Blue-Footed Boobie
4th Dec 2010, 20:23
Is there a 'culture' at Jetstar?

It might be a cunning HR interview question.. "How can you add to the Jetstar culture?"

A. I'll take it up the backside and won't complain
B. I'll get 'Onya Jetstar!' tattooed on my forehead
C. I'll buy shares in a removalist company so moving bases every 12 months will cost nothing
D. I'll sign away my rights to free speech forever

QF pilots take note!

The Kelpie
4th Dec 2010, 20:38
Jetstar 'Culture'?
Is there a 'culture' at Jetstar?

It might be a cunning HR interview question.. "How can you add to the Jetstar culture?"

A. I'll take it up the backside and won't complain
B. I'll get 'Onya Jetstar!' tattooed on my forehead
C. I'll buy shares in a removalist company so moving bases every 12 months will cost nothing
D. I'll sign away my rights to free speech forever

QF pilots take note!

No need to offer item c. I have it on good authority that payment of expenses by the company resulting from relocation has been written out of the NZ contract. You apparently now get given a new temporary contract (A further period of LWOP from NZ base) each time you move base. The base transfer will apparently be at the employees request since the alternative is redundancy with no provision for redundancy payment or protection and a whopping big debt to pay off if you don't!

More to follow

The Kelpie

4th Dec 2010, 23:37
Yeh look I know they did a pretty good job, but surely a Captain with 1000 hrs jet and a cadet F/O with 50 hours jet could have done just as good a job :confused:
Is'nt that what AJ and the " cadets are great " brigade think :hmm:

Gold help us :uhoh:

5th Dec 2010, 00:30
Confidence in your ability to perform a task(s) under stress increases with the experience you have in performing that/those tasks.
Having 12000 hours under your belt is going to stand you in very good stead when the brown stuff hits hits the turbo fan.
How lucky were Qantas that they had so much experience in the cockpit of the QF 32.
Qantas "luck" is becoming legendary.
Its seems to protect the pax and employees from the stupidity of the trough snouts.
Lets hope the Qantas "luck" holds out

5th Dec 2010, 02:00
Experience counts for nothing at Jetstar, in fact it is discouraged. The Decs on 320 and 330 are about to be attacked once again by AIPA and the JPA for que jumping.
What was the senate enquiry about again ?

5th Dec 2010, 04:22

What utter rubbish. It may surprise you to learn that many of your non-DEC Jetstar colleagues are experienced as well.

As for AIPA/JPC attacking you, get your hand off it. These organisations are attempting to protect seniority for ALL Jetstar pilots. Including you.

Seniority may not suit you right now but simply being 'experienced' (by the way, how do you define that word?) does not give you the right to expect preferential treatment in an existing employment contract.

ps - BB leaked the JQ check averages, remember? Erroneous as they are, the positive we can all take from it is that the standard deviation among JQ pilots is minimal.

In other words, we're all about as good as each other, champ. Come down off your pedestal and start thinking about others as well as yourself. :ugh:

5th Dec 2010, 04:44
The Decs on 320 and 330 are about to be attacked once again by AIPA and the JPA for que jumping.

Isn't that exactly what they did? :ugh:


5th Dec 2010, 04:53
As an F/O in JQ , I do see quite a large difference in standards. I also know that the seniority list will only ever be useful to the top 100 people on it , the rest are irrelevent.
I also believe AIPA will try to enforce seniority throughout Qantas group only so they, the most senior of all people in QF group can pick any job they want as things change including those of the senior boys in JQ.
Anybody in JQ connected with AIPA are nailing there own coffins shut.
Im sure the decs will leave anyway,:p what a waste of resources attacking them.