Medical challenges in China

[Flying Phoenix]

For those of you considering work in China, before you leave your current job I would like to offer you the following thoughts about the challenges of obtaining and retaining your Chinese Class 1 Medical.

1. In order to obtain your Class 1 medical, you will have to undergo a fairly comprehensive test which involves:
a) Blood testing: Aids, Cholesterol, GPT (ACT) marker (for damaged liver due to Hepatitis, alcoholism).
b) Chest X-Ray
c) Liver and Kidney Ultrasound: Fatty liver, kidney damage
d) Stress ECG with Blood Pressure Check
e) Eye examination
f) Audiogram
g) Weight and Height
h) Ears, Nose, Throat Exam

2. Once you obtain your Class 1 medical you will then have your bi-annual medicals. The 'Small Medical' is very straight forward with you having to undertake:
a) Blood test
b) Ears, Nose, Throat exam
c) Regular ECG
d) Eye Exam
e) Height and Weight

The 'Large Medical' will be done on an annual basis and includes:
a) Blood testing: Aids, Cholesterol, GPT (ACT) marker (for damaged liver due to Hepatitis, alcoholism).
b) Chest X-Ray
c) Liver and Kidney Ultrasound: Fatty liver, kidney damage
d) Stress ECG with Blood Pressure Check
e) Eye examination
f) Audiogram - once every few years I believe
g) Weight and Height, Blood Pressure
h) Ears, Nose, Throat Exam

[B]Here are the problems recently encountered by some of the foreign pilots working in China.

1. Blood Pressure: the CAAC places an upper limit of 140-145 mmHg, on ones blood pressure. It appears that foreign pilots have a slightly higher blood pressure on average than the local pilots, which has resulted in suspended medicals and medication be required.

2. Blood Test: This is the new nemesis being encountered by both local an foreign pilots alike. Recently medical suspensions have been due to elevated GPT (ACT) levels. The normal range (as accepted in the west) is from 0-60. The CAAC however, as arbitrarily reduced the normal range from 0-40 which has caused several pilots with GPT levels in the 50's to have their medicals revoked. Here is the kicker: no credible doctors in the western world would hold a pilot's medical for elevated GPT levels unless other markers are considered as well. The CAAC will also withhold your licence for high cholesterol, rather than bring it to ones attention and then monitor the progress.

In a nutshell, the CAAC does seem to be on a mission to make it harder for foreign pilots to not only obtain the Class 1 medical, but also to hold onto it. This makes the long term viability in working for a Chinese problematic at best. Remember also, that in working for a Chinese airline none of the brokers offer any life, health, loss of licence benefits. You are very much at the mercy of the CAAC doctors - not a very comforting thought.

[tu144]

i bet the medical for the space shuttle is less comprehensive... With such rules how do they get pilots?

[captplaystation]

Could be why about 75% of the jobs on offer on sites like flightglobal.com seem to be in China. Constant screening, but no-one hired.
A colleague told me the success rate for those applying was abysmally low, it seems that may just be the start of your problems, first get in, then somehow stay in.
A very strange situation, much like India, they need us, but they REALLY don't want us.
Well tough t1tty, their problem, not ours. :hmm:

[de facto]

All pilots from my previous Bankrupt airline passed the medical check and sim,only one didnt join as he failed the atpl twice and decided to stay at his current airline.
It aint that hard but requires will to go through a lenghty process,the pay is way worth it(crying shame what is on offer in europe),im very well treated,fed and transported with very nice and helpful crews.

For the medical,if you arent way out of shape and below 45 you shouldn't have any problem...

Food for thought.

[Z_Pilot]

Excellent Post!

I have a job possibility in China. As such, I will need to go through the initial Chinese class one medical.

My problem is hearing and an audiogram. I was born with a hearing deficiency. This problem is ONLY detectable if I am put through an audiogram. I have had absolutely no problems passing a FAA first class medical exam in the USA. I have a 13 year history of obtaining FAA first class medicals. Additionally, I have no limitations or notations on my FAA medical addressing hearing. I will be able to provide interested parties with an audiogram from 1997, and one from 2006. They show the same result. In other words, my hearing is not getting worse.

For reference, my hearing loss in both ears is about 45db ("moderate") at the mid-frequency ranges. Both Low and High frequency hearing is normal.

Perhaps China borrows JAA standards?
Audio - JAR Class 1 Hearing Standards | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=533)

Three questions:
A> Where can I find decibel / Hz benchmarks for a China Class one medical?

B> Would I be helping myself or hurting myself by disclosing this deficiency prior to the medical?

C> Is there a process to get a waiver or appeals for the medical?

Thanks for your help!

[Flying Phoenix]

Hi Z_Pilot,

To answer your questions (remember this is my opinion only - perhaps another poster may enter the discussion with a different view point):

1. One major obstacle we have in China is finding out the benchmarks for the tests. Another is, the CAAC keep changing goal posts with regards to these standards. We tend to find out what the 'new' standards are when one of our colleagues run into problems of their own and pass along the information to the foreign pilot group - much as I am doing now.

2. Never, ever reveal any past or present medical conditions you may have. You are Superman when you go for you medical, nothing less. I suspect that the audiogram is probably at lower end of the spectrum when it comes to what the CAAC doctors are looking for.

3. There are no waivers that I'm aware of. I've tried, but frankly the CAAC are not interested. The CAAC acts independently and very much in isolation of western standards.

I hope this helps.

[Meccano]

A group of 12 pilots from my company attended Air China screening. ALL had 'medical problems' including one guy being told he had a terminal heart defect.

Their colour blind test is a killer, for sure. Not Ishihara, but some weird kind of fractal chart test done in a darkened room under artificial light.
The Med Test facilities are stone age by the way. Cold dark corridoors filled with queue jumping locals.

The guy with the terminal heart problem rushed home to see a top heart specialist, and was told there was absolutely nothing wrong with his heart. Load of BS.

Don't go to China for screening if you aren't 18 and in peak physical condition. You'll fail, and your fail will cause problems for your renewal at home.
LoL Insurance will use it as an excuse not to pay if you lose your licence later. You know how Insurance companies work.

Besides all that - the screening is ass backward. They expect you to study for their ATPL exams and pass the test before you're even selected in the Sim or passed the Med.
With a 75% failure rate I shudder to think of the time wasted by so many ICAO ATPL qualified pilots who cram this crap into their brain only to wash out on a fictional Med issue.

This will all change as pilot surpluses dry up.
Stay away. Keep your powder dry.
If you apply now and fail on BS Med grounds you are finished forever.
The low-timers will take the jobs later, when sensible Med standards come in.

Good luck trying.

[Bad medicine]

2. Never, ever reveal any past or present medical conditions you may have. You are Superman when you go for you medical, nothing less. I suspect that the audiogram is probably at lower end of the spectrum when it comes to what the CAAC doctors are looking for.



That is really poor advice. It makes the doctor's job of carrying out a risk assessment nearly impossible. If they know they are being consistently deceived, they are far more likely to require additional testing, etc in order to make an informed decision. In most authorities the applicant makes a legally enforceable declaration regarding the information that they do (or don't) supply, and if found to be less than truthful can lead to cancellation of licence or prosecution.
Cheers,
BM

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Not just poor advice, but criminally irresponsible.

[Meccano]

If you really MUST try for one of these China jobs, my best advice would be - don't bother cramming for their exam. Why play their game and waste your precious time? Go ahead and do the exam, have a stab at it. You'll probably fail, but no big deal. Many (20%?) fail it, and then repeat 2 weeks later.

That way, if you are washed out on Med grounds (very likely) you won't have wasted weeks at home learning crap you'll never use.
If you pass the Med - Congrats! - you now have at least two weeks to properly study for the exam and Ace it knowing there's a job waiting.

[Flying Phoenix]

Ladies and Gents,

It was not my intention to suggest that you lie about any medical problems you may have. However, if you can hold a Class 1 medical in a country such as the UK, Canada, US etc. then medically, there should be no reason why you can't hold a Class 1 medical in China.

I was asked by the previous poster about whether or not he/she should reveal his hearing problem to the Chinese doctors. Listen, if you want to work for Air China or any other airlines in the Mainland, then the simple fact of the matter is that they won't even look at you if you make mention of this fact. End of assessment. If you had knee surgery and were 'put under' during the operation and you reveal this fact there is a very good chance that it will be the end of the assessment. Your call. Criminal? A little overkill I would suggest. Remember, you are still holding a valid Class 1 medical in your home country.

I am only trying to state the facts of working in China, nothing more.

[stevieboy]

Hi Z_Pilot

I have translated the following information from CCAR-67 medical requirements issued by the CAAC. Hope it will be helpeful to you and others.

67.131 Hearing
To meet the first class medical certificate requirements, each ear will be tested on 500,1000 and 2000(Hz) frequency, but not more than 35 (db) hearing loss is permitted; in the 3000(Hz) frequencies not more than 50 db hearing loss (dB) is permitted. If the applicants hearing loss is more than the values stated above, then the following conditions must also be met;
(1) In the aircraft cockpit noise environment or simulated conditions, is able to hear from each ear and any background beacon noise;
(2) In a quiet room with your back facing (2 metres) the doctor, and demonstrate your ability to hear his/her voices.

[beany]

In agreement re; not revealing past medical history of any kind. Don't lie in a medical - there will always be the chance of it biting you in the rear in the future.......and that is the least of the risks. Enough said above.

I may be reading this wrong, but what is the point of the 'small medical' biannual when the 'large medical' annual is more comprehensive?

B

[Z_Pilot]

Just a followup on this thread. I actually found a resource that explains CAAC medical standards in English. Just click the link on this page:

Good luck everyone!

[mtollervides]

Does anybody have information regarding the CAAC standards for Gout. I have been asked to re-test 3 times now, including the ALT (liver test).
I'm wondering if I have any chance now. I passed all the exams on November 1st.

[mtollervides]

Please re-post the link

[mtollervides]

Do you have any information regarding the CAAC Medical regulations?

[Z_Pilot]

Unfortunately a moderator deleted the link I posted. It was not my intention to display a commercial link for commercial purposes :hmm:
Cutting and pasting the information is borderline unethical because I am not crediting the source. However, I do not recall any specific information on your inquiry. PM me, and perhaps I am allowed to share the link that way, or perhaps I can send you a copy.

ZP

[vikena]

Hi Z pilot

Could you PM me with a link to an english translation of the medical parameters for the purposes of attaining a Chinese Class 1 medical please

V

[vikena]

Anyone?

V

[mtollervides]

Sorry for not answering before. I have been traveling looking for a job. The China broker called again, they want me to go back and re-do the Medical

[cfibrad]

I just went to China for 10 days. Medical, Sim eval and CAAC ATP written. Everything was going well, but the communication was sparse.

Problem: two day medical, passed EVERYTHING except:

1) I have had some skin cancer removed. I've been flying in the US over 10 years since, but what I am hearing is that ANY type of cancer is disqualifying.
2) I have a scar for an appendectomy.

I will need to submit my medical records for skin cancer and and appendectomy. But, I have been told, that it probably will not be accepted.
Any experience out there with this?

[outofwhack]

Rodolfo,

Failing ishihara under jaa or EASA rules means you would have to pass another colour vision test to be allowed to fly at night or have a commercial.
Google the Colour Vision Defective Pilots Association (CVDPA).

Did you know colour vision isn't actually required to fly planes safely. it's just a thing they have always tested for and protected just to maintain the standard. Years back you couldnt fly commercially if you needed glasses as you were considered unsafe!

OOW