TYPE RATINGS : Why sooooo much ????

[blackhawk777]

I have been trying to get the details from different TRTO's about the 737NG Type Rating and am actually very confused with the figures I've come across....

TRTO............................................Cost........ ..................Remarks

CAE.............................................$34000...... .........80hrs GT, 48hrs FFS
Cockpit 4u....................................$29000...............7 2hrs GT, 44hrs FFS
RJ Flight Academy..........................$28000...............56hrs GT, 41hrs FFS
K & S...........................................$17000.......... .....80hrs GT, 36hrs FFS
Kontakt Pro....................................$21300............... 80hrs GT, 46hrs FFS
High Power....................................$15000............. ...80hrs GT, 50hrs FFS
Boeing Training(Alteon)....................$14000...............XXh rs GT, 41hrs FFS

I hope you see the difference in the training costs !!!!!!!
I understand there can be a difference in training standards.... But i don't understand that it makes the school charge almost double the amount.

I guess the most famous schools which we come across online are the first three... Is tht the reason !!!!

Would really like to know why soooo much cost difference.... The Ground Training and Sim hrs given are almost the same....

The most surprising thing is the Boeing Training (ALTEON) charges half the amount.... and i don't think the training standards will be less....

Plese share your views... !!!!

(Also... How does it matter what training school you choose ?? Since you would be trained by a curriculum setup by BOEING... how does it matter... everyone is gonna follow the same curriculum)

[blackhawk777]

Comeon people !!!!!!!

188 views but 0 replies......

The experienced ones.... Pls reply !!!

[fabbe92]

I don´t know actualy, but don´t you do a couple of tuch and goes and approaches in the real aircraft while type rating? I guess it´s quite expensive nowdays, to take the 737 for a sping:rolleyes:

[Raavan]

I am not sure but i believe that as the cost reduces, so do the number of courses included in the program as well. which might include high altitude physiology, jet transition or some unknown courses to me.

So the bottom line is that, i guess CAE. offers you training from scrap(CPL Holders) to airline FO standard(with out any pre-experience)
Where as Boeing Training(Alteon) offers a transition kind of course to experienced pilots with some jet time.

Also i would recommend to chk sim center, miami, FL.

Just a wild guess, Please don't totally relay on it. :=

[v6g]

The answer is simply because that is what people are prepared to pay.

[whitecross]

1-Paying for a type will get you NOWHERE

2-No Airline Accepts 500 hours paid for,while you are sleeping on the (Jump Seat:ugh:)

3-Boys Like you are spoiling the Aviation Industry


4-If you dont like the prices, dont Argue, becuase ONLY Critics will Give you a Discount

[southernskyz]

Blackhawk777,

I've done some research in the past about obtaining a type rating on the 737Ng and you got to be really careful with your money, becuse it usually costs more.

I think after the ground school, most of the organisations offer up to 12 hours on a fixed base simulator.
What you really got to look at, is how many hours of full motion flight simulation is being offered.
I recall that RJFlight academy in dubai/europe, are quoting around 32 hours full motion simulator, which is 4 times eight hour sessions.

Don't forget that any total hours and price quoted, is based on 2 people doing the course and paying the same amount of money.

I think the American organisations quote a much lower price, but it's usually based on 24 hours full motion.

If you got no turbine and multi crew experience or haven't done a type rating previously, then it could cost you thousands more to pass the final sim test.
You also got to include airfare and accomodation costs for up to a 4 week stay.

A full motion flight simulator costs around $1000 an hour for training.

You also have to look at the fact, that where ever you choose to do your sim training in the world, you got to really look closely at what are the other requirements, you will have to meet, in order for your CAA to recognise the training you did.

Example: In Australia, a person can do all their type training in a simulator without doing any aircraft time,
to get their type rating in their license.
JAA license holders have to do some aircraft circuit time after the sim training.

[CrazyStuntPilot]

I know Higher Power Aviation (if that's what you meant by 'High Power') near DFW Texas, USA. I did a type rating there and they are really fantastic. I'm surprised that they are the cheapest in your list. I would go back to HPA for a type rating if I had to. Top notch company, really really cares about their customers.

[riciardi]

Airlines wont even take you if you got a frozen ATPL, they wanna pay it for you. High school also. If you got an high school diploma paid by yourself or your parents, you´r doomed.

Looking for a pilot to fly my 737.
A guy with a frozen ATPL vs one with 500 hrs on it.. hmm..

Did he paid for it? well, he could have bought a sports car but hes driving a crappy old car. Some name it investment.

[IndAir967]

I dont endorse paying for the type but of every one who have been hired in the last 6 months , it is this bunch that have payed for their type that have got hired

As said I dont endorse paying for an type rating but like it or not, unfortunately these are the kids who were lucky enough to have got an job. If you have had an Boeing 737 type rating with an CPL and 250 hrs as compared to 2000 hours on an multi engine turbine aircraft, the airlines prefer the guy with the Boeing 737 rating endorsed on the license.
It is an cost saving measure especially in India where the candidate himself has cleared all the hassles of endorsing the rating on his license.

Who have been hiring in the last six months ?

Air India Express. (around 50 trainee are under training)
Jet Airways.
Spice Jet. (around 35 trainees are under training)

Probability is if you have had an 737 rating in the past six months you should by now be employed with any of the above mentioned carriers.

[IndAir967]

@ BlackHawk777 Be sure to find out the price that meet the requirements of Indian DGCA as it might be costlier than the actual mentioned quote. DGCA Allows you to do your base check on an Level D Full Motion Sim for the 737.

[B737NG]

I went thru Higher Power in 1999, Boeing in 2000 and later thru Cockpi4U as well. Today I am still in contact with HPA and visited them just last Year at the facility they use the last few years now. The care is still the same, even after years in Business they care about each single customer. In Boeing it is more commercialised but the standarts have to be met. Cockpit4U is of course more into JAR-OPS regulation but also the personel behind the sceene is helpful as well even after you paid the bill and got what you paid for.

As a summary I would say: Money you spend on your education can be wasted as there is no guaranty that you get a job. Nowadays Company´s ride the horse as most wannabees are willing to pay and do everything to get a seat. Wages are frozen since years as a result. Pilots earned more money 10 to 20 years back. If you sit in a nice cozy office with a good education you cannot lose money and life quality at the same time.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[blackhawk777]

@ Raavan : Thanks for the post.... The scene is some of the schools offer the same package but at amost half the cost !!! Thts wat is confusing.

@ Whitecross : You can sit and cry and blame whoever u want and for whatever reasons. The only thing I am sure about is " IF U WERE A DOC OR AN ENGG I M SURE U WOULD HAVE STOPPED AFTER UR INITIAL DEGREE.... NEVER WOULD HAVE GONE AHEAD AND DONE A MASTERS OR MD OR PHd OR MBA..... BECAUSE FOR U THE WORLD ENDS THERE.... A TYPE FOR A PILOT IS JUST LIKE A MASTER FOR AN ENGG AND MD FOR A DOC !!!!!
U NEED TO MOVE ACCORDING TO THE NEED OF THE INDUSTRY. I CAN'T LIVE AND SURVIVE ON THE SAME PRINCIPLES AS PEOPLE WERE 10 YRS BACK !!! IF U HAVE THE MEANS WHY NOT USE IT AND FOLLOW UR DREAM..."

Anyway... Best of luck !!!

Happy Landings..

@ Southernskyz : Thanks for the info. I have kept all that in mind. I know it a lot of money thts why thinking a lot before spending. have got a list of all requirements reqd to be 737NG type rated in my country and only then gonna move ahead with it..

Thnks Mate !!

@ Ricardi & 737NG : No one other than u have recommended me to go to High Power. Would try to get more info on tht...

Thanks...

@ IndAir 967 : I have been waiting for quite sometime now... and have come up to a decision to go ahead with the type rating for the same reason. When i see my friends going and doing the type and after coming back flying for XYZ airline... I do feel tht the need of the time... And it actually is !!!

[jahaj_crash]

:ugh: If i was doing my MBBS or whatever and the industry scenario changed enough to self sponser an MD DEGREE or even specialization DEGREE or even super-specialization DEGREE. I would do it without much thought.
But my dear i would be spending on a DEGREE which does not have a RECENCY and even if it does i would have to shell out through my nose.
If u want to type rate urself go ahead but at least put a better arguement which doesnt make sense anyways.
Maybe u are some sort of a dealer guy who wants to motivate other gullible ones. Coz if u had the means & Will , you would have done it by now and wouldnt be cribbing and speculating on the net about it.
Chances are u dnt have much contacts in the industry who could have guided u when the iron was hot and now u dont see a way out of this deep well u are in and planning to swim downwards in hope to surface at the other side of the planet.
No hard feeling sir, just trying to give my honest and good willed advise.Good Luck.

[jahaj_crash]

By the way your putting up of the market prices and all was very impressive and helpful. Good Job.

In case u are wondering about my disposition.I am not riding some fancy boat either chances are i am facing a far harsher side of the storm. Only difference Patience & common sense.

[blackhawk777]

@ Jahaj Crash : I appreciate ur patience and common sense. I did get deals from schools where they get ur recency done free of cost... Ya u read it right... If u go to them.. they are ready to do ur recency for no extra cost within 12 months in case u don't get a job.... So u go for higher education without worrying abt RECENCY !!!!!

Well abt loosing patience and not using my common sense... Yes i agree i lost patience... But i would really want u to enlighten me where do u see the hope for 10000 pilots, where the only qualification is CPL.... !!!

[Raavan]

got a mail today on Facebook by Tony Rocking (Tony Rocking | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001060861170)) from a flight school that offers type rating.

dear students ,
looking at vaccancies in jetairways for B737 type
rated pilot also many airlines in india looking for B737 OR A320 rated
pilots, our school is providing type rating course according to indian
dgca .our school has been selected by SPICEJET for its BOEING 737NG
training apart from B737 our school offers training on B757, B767,
A320, B727, MD80


BOEING 737NG TYPE RATING

For Indian DGCA candidates Currently, we have eight
students from India enrolled in this course at our facility

COURSE DESCRIPTION
Set Study Materials, Color Cockpit Panels and Study Guides.
80 Hours Ground Instruction, including computer based training (CBT)
plus
12 Hours Fixed Base Simulator (FBS) training with partner.
Oral Examination by FAA Training Center Evaluator.
40 Hours B737NG Level D Full Flight Simulator Training (20 PF/20 PM),
including 4 hrs LOFT and LVO training.
Oral Examination and Simulator Checkride (Skills Test) by FAA Training
Center Evaluators, including a minimum of 3 take-offs and landings by
day and
night. Examiner Fees are included.

COURSE COST $ 15,000.00 per pilot trained as a crew

students interested in type rating course please forward there mobile
number,email id, for more details and broachure of our school.

Just for additional info sake!!

[fukingdgca]

even i gt d same email...i think they r charging only 15000$ bcoz of d fact that they r offering only 40 hours of training...other institutes r offering atleast 80 hrs..and do u think its fake/??

[jetblue0743]

hi i am new to this forum.

I am also interested in B-737 type rating, just started gathering information about it. A friend of mine refered me about K & S, said its good and he did his initial CPL training from the same school. Very confused and even more after reading this forum. I request if you could pls refer the name of the school from which you got the mail about the type rating for $15000. It would be really appreciated.

At sim centre it costs a bomb for $30000. A friend of mine will be going in dec itself.
Pls somebody help it would be really appreciated.

Thank you.

[Raavan]

@ fukingdgca
Sorry boss, never heard of that school before.

[CrazyStuntPilot]

Don't believe that you be offered a job just because you have a type rating. Plenty of pilots bought their type ratings and were not offered a job. And if you don't have a job flying the airplane you paid to be typed in after 6 months, your TR is pretty much worthless unless you pay for an expensive proficiency check.

[Ridge Runner]

The most surprising thing is the Boeing Training (ALTEON) charges half the amount.... and i don't think the training standards will be less....

Plese share your views... !!!!

(Also... How does it matter what training school you choose ?? Since you would be trained by a curriculum setup by BOEING... how does it matter... everyone is gonna follow the same curriculum)

Dont be fooled. A name like Boeing doesn't mean better training or what matches the DGCA needs. It also doesnt mean they have the mind-set to train low-hour pilots like yourselves. Be careful. As I said before - go with the training provider who the airlines have confidence in and use themselves. That will tell you whether the airline would possibly accept you.

And why does it matter who? Well, because many wont get you through and many dont match the needs of the DGCA, that's why.

RR

[ZeeZoo]

Dear Ridge Runner,

First of all, I would appreciate if you do a little research before posting a reply tht might influence some poeple here.

The organization in question here is BOEING TRAINING AND FLIGHT SERVICES perviously known as ALTEON training.

The place has almost 16 centers across the world, is run by BOEING INC. themselves.

The training provided is by boeing instrutors and examiners. The course is in full compliance with boeing SOP's and practices. One of the best places to train. As a matter of fact Jet Airways has sent a batch of thier trainees to Alteon in London Gatwick.

Yes thier course is priced at USD 14000 which does not include MCC and LOFT training. Addition cost for the same is USD 3500. Which puts the couse cost at USD 17500 in all. This is in full compliance with DGCA requirements.

Now why should someone pay 32500 dollars to CAE when they can do it here at half the cost. Right?

Well here's the catch. Their minimum requirement to enroll in thier course is a total Time of 500 Hrs with Multi-Engine Experience.

So most Ab Initio CPL holders in india do not even qualify for thier course.

I am lookin at training at this organization because i have previous JET Experience which puts my total time over 500.


Regards

Blue Skys!! :)

[blackhawk777]

@ Zee zoo

Check PM !!

[CrazyStuntPilot]

Don't believe that you be offered a job just because you have a type rating.


This is not entirely true. It depends who you are training with

You might be offered an interview, but not a job.

[SuperflyTNT]

Hey all,

Any idea about CAE bangalore? How much do they charge for the A320? Also, how is the training they provide over there? If any of you have a contact number/e-mail ID for them please do pass it on. Appreciate all the help coming my way. Thank you

[Ridge Runner]

You are, of course, entiled to your opinion zee zoo. Tell me, though, do Jet or SpiceJet take Boeing students? That's the meaure I would go by. Also, if Boeing are so good (your opinion) why dont they training there (apart from the free training that they get as part of aircraft purchases). The fact is .. they don't. So, ask yourself why..... RR

[blackhawk777]

@ Ridge Runner

Yes..... Jetairways sends its candidates to Boeing Training for Type Rating. And not only that. If u look at the SOP's of Jet, Spice, Air India...... All of them are from ALTEON(Boeing Training).

@ Superfly TNT

Mentioned below is the type rating information on A320


1) Description of Simulator

A320 Full Flight Simulator shall have the capability to perform in accordance with the Simulator performance standards expressed in JAA JAR STD-1A Level “D”.


2) Training Facility

The training shall be made available in Bangalore, INDIA.



3) Training Start Date

To be finalized.



4) Price for Services

The rates quoted are in USD. Service tax is included in the price. All other taxes, as applicable, are in addition to the rates and shall be added to the invoice and paid by the customer.

Course Cost: USD 34,000.

CAE A320 Standard Type Rating Course

* The duration of this course is 34+ days approximately and includes ground school plus simulator sessions of 39 hours MFTD and 44 hours FFS.

* This course is offered under a crew concept (2 trainees).

* Depending on prior flying experience, the trainee may have to undergo Long or Short Entry Level Training (ELT) at an additional cost. The pre-requisites are included in the course outline (attached).



CAE Airbus Long Entry Level Training (Long ELT)

* The duration of this course is 15+ days approximately and includes ground school plus simulator sessions of 32 hours FBS.

* This course is offered under a crew concept (2 trainees).



CAE Airbus Short Entry Level Training (Short ELT)

* The duration of this course is 4 days approximately and includes ground school plus simulator sessions of 12 hours FBS.

* This course is offered under a crew concept (2 trainees).



The rates quoted above are exclusive of accommodation, transportation and food & beverage, all of which shall be borne and arranged by the customer.


Please feel free to contact me for additional information or clarifications. Please give us your contact number so we can get in touch with you for detailed information. Thank you.




--

warm regards,

Swapneel Shedge
Fly Wings Aviation Pvt. Ltd.
Office:+91-22-26123878/ +91-9320305333
Mobile:+91-9820728464