F-111C End of an Era

[L J R]

It has been a pleasure to have flow the Pig. Looking forward to the last beer with my Aussie, US and Brit mates when we have the last hoorah in Brisbane:sad:

[BBadanov]

Roar :}

Or on the Coast, LJ

[BentStick]

Penetrated faster.....deeper......stayed longer......and dropped a bigger load!

[Willard Whyte]

Looked better than the fugly harrier too.

[BBadanov]

WW, to show how good looking, check out here (not my pics)

DSLRUsers.com • View topic - Retirement of the Pigs (http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=40259&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)


Boris

[wardie]

Some from the Pig's last Public Airshow.

http://www.jmbphotography.com.au/gallery2/d/2663-1/IMG_9308.jpg

http://www.jmbphotography.com.au/gallery2/d/2615-1/IMG_9330.jpg

http://www.jmbphotography.com.au/gallery2/d/2618-1/IMG_9433.jpg

http://www.jmbphotography.com.au/gallery2/d/2624-1/IMG_9508.jpg

http://www.jmbphotography.com.au/gallery2/d/2621-1/IMG_9466.jpg

Wardie

[BBadanov]

Isn't it amazing they could make a jet like that in the 60s, and now all the stuffing around with the fugly, delayed, over-budget, probably under-performing JSF turkey :ugh:

[Rocket2]

Out of interest why was the F111 nicknamed the pig? Surely nothing to do with handling qualities & darned if I can see a resemblance to the pink pork producers.

[Army Mover]

why was the F111 nicknamed the pig?

Probably from it's Aardvark (Earth Pig) nickname?

[sisemen]

Can never understand why we didn't call it the "Kookaburra" with a pointy front end like that

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:vLIeg1yXHfXiUM:http://i1.treknature.com/photos/7805/tnlaughing_kookaburra_1.jpg&t=1http://farm1.static.flickr.com/171/441448994_01c6596aaf.jpg

[Lmnav]

Very dissapointed that I cannot make it. LJR - I know that you will drink my share. All the very best to all at Amberley. A fantastic aeroplane operated by a great bunch of people.

[jindabyne]

BBadanov

Listen, I know my old Banana back seater and his wife are flying out to join in your celebrations, and in so doing he has had to relinquish his responsibility for organising this year's Blitz in London, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't acknowledge that, in his latter MoD days, he supported my assertion that Typhoon would have made the best replacement - not this interim Super thingy or the Jey Ess Effy waste of Space. Have a good day, and give my regards to them that knew me!! Hic

[BBadanov]

Hey Jindy,

Yes it is a shame the date conflicted with the Blitz. But at my dinner alone we have six joint ex-Banana/ex-Pig mates. And a few more up at the function in Brissie. So I guess that sets the scene for celebrations!! Only thing missing will be piping in the haggis, but we will have the strippers.

Cheers ;)

[rjtjrt]

Rocket2
Something about the long nose and spending all day rooting around close to the ground.
An affectionate nickname.
John

[Arm out the window]

When's the last dump and burn?

I only ask to ascertain whether the last dump and burn at the WM airshow was the last, or the one before that (Clipsal Adelaide perhaps?) was the last.

There may be a 'last', 'fair dinkum last', 'no really this is the last', and a 'no **** last' as well, so stay tuned!

No disrespect, pig operators, but there seems to be a bit of Nellie Melba-ism going on here I believe!:)

[BBadanov]

No disrespect, pig operators, but there seems to be a bit of Nellie Melba-ism going on here I believe!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

It's not the Pig operators - it's the media and promoters that spread the "last" publicity pitches.

Brisbane "Riverfire" last year was advertising the "last" D&B, conveniently planning to say the same this year!! The WLM Show in Sep was the last airshow D&B. Tonight in Ipswich will be the last public D&B for their "carols by candlelight" at, I think, the racecourse.

The "absolute last" will be at Amberley next Friday, 3 Dec.

[vorky]

Just saw the Dump'n'Burn from my balcony in Western Brisbane ... it performed 3 circuits over the racecourse with the flame out the rear.

Going to be sad to see them go, the Rhinos just don't do it for me :sad:

[L J R]

The "absolute last" will be at Amberley next Friday, 3 Dec.


...that is until, BB, that you and I do them regularly after we buy a pig or two privately for the airshow circuit....:p

Do you still have your checklist..? I still know how to start it up..

[BBadanov]

Quote: ...that is until, BB, that you and I do them regularly after we buy a pig or two privately for the airshow circuit....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif
Do you still have your checklist..? I still know how to start it up..

Hey LJ, thx for the thought, I still have an out-of-date cx list, but now need glasses. Cockpit management may be a prob, but just as long as I can find the dump switch!!
...and remember to switch it off...:hmm:

[EW73]

As I write these words, I can hear the F-111s fly overhead for the last time here in Brisbane.

I'm in the CBD and 7 Pigs flew past in formation (with the accompanying F-18 photo escort), with two breaking off to fly North (I think) and the other 5 (with the F-18) to go South!

Quite disappointing really, just a single pass, probably due to the low cloud in the vicinity of the city.

An historic day for the RAAF and the Boeing maintainers.

EW73 :D

[Mick.B]

Some shots from yesterday.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0026.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0040.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0041.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0047.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0054.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0057.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0067.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0075.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0083.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0082.jpg

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr164/mickbawden72/DSC_0097.jpg

[EW73]

Looks like the event there at Amberley attracted the big wigs....in the first photo, that gentleman standing there in the blue suit (hands in pockets), is the CEO of Boeing Defense Australia, the company that has been maintaining these F-111s for the last several years, under contract to the RAAF.

EW73 :ooh:

[Magic Mushroom]

Isn't it amazing they could make a jet like that in the 60s, and now all the stuffing around with the fugly, delayed, over-budget, probably under-performing JSF turkey

Err...and of course the F-111 was such a fine exemple of effective procurement, project management and financial awareness back in the 60s wasn't it BBadanov?!!!:rolleyes:

Shame to see such a classic type go however.

Regards,
MM

[Squirrel 41]

Well, at least 82nd Wg is still a more effective strike force than Ponting's men! :E

Best to all at Amberley - many happy times there as a Pommie QAIRTC cadet in the 80s.....

S41

PS, any news the disposal plan for the airframes? Hope that several of them find good homes in the Aussie museums.

[500N]

Squirrel 41

"PS, any news the disposal plan for the airframes? Hope that several of them find good homes in the Aussie museums."

I read somewhere that 4 are being kept, I think 2 at Amberley, 1 at Point Cook - RAAF Museum, Victoria and 1 at RAAF Base Edinburgh, South Australia.

Edited to correct locations.

[BBadanov]

MM quote: Err...and of course the F-111 was such a fine exemple of effective procurement, project management and financial awareness back in the 60s wasn't it BBadanov?!!!:rolleyes:

Err...Yes MM - a lot better than today. It was ordered in 1963, and the first Aussie crews flew it in US in 1968 to then ferry them home. Then wing carry-through boxes delayed acceptance until 1973. In those days Air Force was a separate ministry and looked after its own procurement and it worked well, Mirage being another example of that era. Despite delays with the F-111, it served us as a fantastic deterrant from 1973 until 2010.

Today, staffing projects through 1st and 2nd passes, and DMO project management, takes many, many years of delayed procurement, quite often delivering something which is inferior. AIR 87 is the classic. The best way to achieve a quick procurement these days is a straight FMS project of MOTS equipment with none of our "orphan" modifications.

JSF - when did we pick it, and send Eurofighter and other options scurrying - 2001? When will we take delivery? 2019?

[Squirrel 41]

BBadanov

If it's Tiffies that you want, let us know how soon you can get over here to collect them - they're likely to be plentiful shortly at the rate that things are currently going.

500N - thanks, good to hear. Bit surprised that Caloundra et al are not on the list.

And as for the cricket....?

S41

[500N]

"500N - thanks, good to hear. Bit surprised that Caloundra et al are not on the list."

I can understand the 4 locations but am not Ex RAAF so not sure on Caloundra. Personally, I can't see why more couldn't have been kept unless it is just that expensive to set them up. What about Richmond ?


"And as for the cricket....?"
Yes, well, the less said the better but we had our time in the sun and I don't think have done enough forward planning once the retirements came.

[BBadanov]

S41 quote: If it's Tiffies that you want, let us know how soon you can get over here to collect them - they're likely to be plentiful shortly at the rate that things are currently going.

Hey S41, no never wanted Tiffies, even if they did morph to a Tranche 3. And am very sorry to hear what's happening to the RAF at the moment.

[ftrplt]

Its around a mill per airframe to (I believe) to set them up on a stick.

Lots of ITARS regulations involved as well.

[500N]

ftrplt

Well it's good to see the Gov't has found the $ to do 4 of them,
even if one of them won't be on a stick.

Why do they have to be on a stick ? Can't they be parked on a concrete slab ?

Anyway, 4 is better than none.


I read somewhere before that keeping them for display had something to do with US laws as well and that caused problems with others - F/A 18 ?

[BBadanov]

Only one on a stick, I think, the one for ARDU. And yes, US regulations for the airframes and TF30 engines are very strict.

I believe the following is the disposal plan:
A8-125, first RAAF F-111C, for RAAF Museum Point Cook (which already has an F-111G).
A8-126, first RAAF F-111C to fly with Aussie crew, and RF-111C protoype, for RAAF Heritage Centre Amberley.
A8-132, AUP prototype and ARDU test vehicle, for ARDU at RAAF Edinburgh.
A8-138, Pave Tack prototype, gate guard at RAAF Amberley with Canberra A84-201.

A static aircraft at the farewell was A8-113, an ex-USAF F-111A, which as 67-0113 flew the last F-111 combat mission in southeast Asia. I heard that this had been offered to the USAF Museum, but they already had an F-111E.

[Magic Mushroom]

Err...Yes MM - a lot better than today. It was ordered in 1963, and the first Aussie crews flew it in US in 1968 to then ferry them home. Then wing carry-through boxes delayed acceptance until 1973. In those days Air Force was a separate ministry and looked after its own procurement and it worked well, Mirage being another example of that era. Despite delays with the F-111, it served us as a fantastic deterrant from 1973 until 2010.

I was drawing comparisons more with the F-111 Project as a whole BB rather than the RAAF order per se. Sadly, it appears de rigour for development and procurement processes to grow with each generation.

Even then however, there are remarkable parallels with F-35. Due to the F-111 developmental problems you mention, the RAAF was forced to borrow a capable and versatile off the shelf US type (F-4E, which many advocated keeping in place of the F-111!) until your Gucci new F-111s could be delivered. I don’t think you got your first jets back to Oz until 1973 but am happy to be corrected.

Remember also that once the USN F-111B was cancelled, the Aardvark was also a single service, single role type. In comparison, F-35 is designed to meet the needs of 3 x US services as well as the RAF and RN whilst trying to maintain its selling point as an F-16 replacement to dozens of other nations.

I must admit however, I’ve never really followed the RAAF decision to commit 100% of your combat air capability to F-35 so early in its gestation.

Anyway, look on the bright side: at least by ending all the dump and burn party stuff, you’ll stand more chance of avoiding global warming and allowing rain clouds to form over Adelaide!:ok:

Regards,
MM

[BBadanov]

Hi MM

Yes, development of the platform and unfortunately (and we take the hit here) the procurement process takes on a lifeform of its own and grows to an unacceptable level. We are small, we should not buy orphan equipment, we need to buy stuff when it is MOTS. The C-17 was another good example of expedited procurement. :ok:

F-111 - yes I said acceptance in 1973, with the first 6 jets arriving at Amberley on 1 Jun 1973, hence the 37 years of service. They then arrived in flights of 6 at about monthly intervals - in time to then overfly the opening of the Opera House later that year!

Re single-service, I would make the point that although USN (F-111B) and RAF (F-111K) pulled out (let's start a new thread, hehe), that there were then 3 customers - USAF TAC (F-111A, etal), SAC (FB-111) and RAAF (F-111C). Don't underestimate the difference between TAC and SAC - they were two distinct missions and modes of operating - not "single-role". The RAAF then went on developing unique roles for the aircraft - RF-111C recce, and maritime attack with AGM-84, later AGM-142 - which were not picked up by the USAF.

Re Dump & Burns, c'mon, the Pig is (was) a very environmentallly-friendly jet being able to burn the fuel it dumps. No worries. :E

Now MM, stop wasting your time here, your presence is required immediately on the Mrs Bloggs 'At Home' Etiquette/Protocols thread !!

[tonker]

Just wait until Mr pwesident kicks off in the North Kowean pewinsula, and they'll be back in a jiffy. 2 weeks tops.

[GAFA]

Update on the F111C disposal from the latest Airforce News

MANY people will be pleased to learn that not all the F-111Cs will go into storage sheds and scrap yards after their retirement. Four of the aircraft are destined to become permanent displays at locations around Australia.
One aircraft will be placed on display at RAAF Base Edinburgh, two at RAAF Base Amberley and one at the RAAF Museum at
RAAF Base Point Cook. The ADF is planning to have the four aircraft on display during 2011.

Of the remainder of the fleet, another three will be retained within Defence to
preserve military heritage, in particular for Air Force units that have flown or supported the F-111C.

Another four will be disposed through destruction as investigations have determined that they are unsuitable for demilitarisation or for display purposes. The remaining aircraft are then to be offered for general sale by tender for other groups or organisations to use as static displays. Any such group will be required to agree to pay the costs to make the aircraft
inoperable (estimated to be in excess of $1 million) so as to meet US Government approvals to transfer them from Defence, as well as the costs to remove asbestos from the aircraft and to restore them to displayable condition (estimated at up to $1.5 million) before approval is given.

All G models will be destroyed.

[tiger19]

I happened to be up at the time they were doing their farewell run and it was humbleing to hear Brisbane centre calling low jet traffic F-111 aircraft "Buckshot whiskey 55" I think was his callsign. I thought I will never hear that again.

[500N]

GAFA
Thanks for the update. That's good to hear. So at least 7 being kept.
I wonder if anyone will stump up the $ to buy one.

.

[BBadanov]

I have been told the three "reserves" are the following:

A8-142, first production AUP.
A8-148, last RAAF F-111C.
A8-113, ex-USAF F-111A 67-0113, flew the last F-111 combat mission in SE Asia, might go to US but the USAFM at WPAFB already have an F-111.

I believe the Ipswich Council wanted one, but whether they are prepared to pay the $$ is another thing. Anyway, apart from explosive items, asbestos or other nasties, the TF30 engines would probably be removed.

[GAFA]

No mention yet of the escape modules that were used at airshows or the sim. Anyone know if they could remove the escape modules from the 'Gs' and sell them. I'm sure if the museums and collectors can't get a complete aircraft the modules would be a great second prize.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Reckon ya could build a mean looking car around it!:eek:

[500N]

GAFA

That would be good.


Why are all the G's being scrapped ?
Do they have items that the US wouldn't want out there
that the others don't have ?

[Magic Mushroom]

I feel strangely able to respond early today BB. Must be something to do with the fact I didn’t have to stay up long last night listening to the cricket!

Don't underestimate the difference between TAC and SAC - they were two distinct missions and modes of operating - not "single-role". The RAAF then went on developing unique roles for the aircraft - RF-111C recce, and maritime attack with AGM-84, later AGM-142 - which were not picked up by the USAF.

While TAC and SAC were certainly very different organisations (in many respects separate services), ultimately SAC, TAC, RAF and RAAF F-111s were developed for medium range, low level penetration. Yes each had differing avionics and weapons and you guys pushed it into the maritime environment, but that is far less challenging than F-35 demands. That requires true swing role BVR/WVR air-air, air-ground and ISR integration into a 5th gen type (with all the airframe and sensor implications therein) for a far wider scope of customers.

To be honest, I think F-35 development has proceeded pretty smoothly given the challenges!

Hopefully, all your Pigs will go to good homes. I worked with RAAF jets in Alaska for Cope Thunder and on your home turf for Pitch Black (both in 98 iirc) and USAF EF-111s during the Balkans (including the most badly timed engine fire in the history of Air Power just prior to the push for the original Udbina strike!). The jet always had presence.

Anyway, that’s enough from me…the cricket highlights are on!

Regards,
MM

[Perrin]

Just when it was a nice topic you had to write the word CRICKET

All the best yes they were fine A/C worked on them in the USAF:{