Hawker 4000 Vs Gulfstream G250

[Barracuda550]

Hi all,
The principal wants to upgrade his current G150 and the two candidates are the Hawker 4000 and the furure G250.
Is there anybody flying the Hawker who could give me the pros and cons of this plane?
Performance, cabin, maintenance support, etc

Thanks in advance.

[mattman]

I have a comparison pdf from Gulfstream if you want pm me your email address, and i will send it to you.

[Perfidious Albion]

Read the Beech Hawker comparison first. Then go for the HA4T! :E

[flybypilot]

Not sure about the GLF but the HA4T comes with 5 years free servicing at the moment which makes it an operational dream, match that to the warranty and for the money its a steal!

[mattman]

Having looked at the g250 as replacement aircraft for our principle we are deeply impressed.
The speed of development has been unprecedented and the designers have taken a great cabin (G200) and matched it to a great wing, airframe and engines.
Enough gadgets to make any pilot's eyes water this is a flying wet dream.

There are however some risks involved, firstly it is a new type and the problems that have plagued the G150 hopefully are lessons learnt.
My real concern is for middle east or frequent middle east flyers.

I am not trying to be anti Israel so will not be drawn into a political, racial discussion ( so don't even try) but the attitude to the Israelis in t he ME changes with same rate as there bulldozers through the gaza strip, it's unpredictable. The only drawback at present is the geo political aspect.
I would have preferred it to be built solely in Savannah.

My 2cents worth

[Rusty Trombone]

Heres some information to consider both good aircraft.

H4000 over 10 years late so some of the technical upgrades are 10 years old, it was a clean sheet aircraft but development problems extended it to 10 years this was the worst entry in to service ever.
5 year warranty does not cover the interior this will be 2 year max.
On the Good points it looks like a fantastic machine not sure on the fuel-burn climb aspects etc.

G250.
Clean sheet design EIS was quick will have its issues, world class product support backed by GDAS will solve any issues, Gulfstream is committed to make the G250 work as the next aircraft a purchaser may evolve to the next flag ship a G450.
The G100-G150 and G250 will never be a Gulfstream in some purists eyes as it was not built by Gulfstream in Savannah and is not powered by Rolls-Royce engines.

However the G250 will evolve in a fantastic product all outfitting done in Dallas TX so the client would never know if it was indeed built near the Gazza strip.

[silverknapper]

Clean sheet design EIS was quick will have its issues

But the G250 wasn't a clean sheet design. It is a develpment of the late 1980's design Galaxy.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

I am not trying to be anti Israel so will not be drawn into a political, racial discussion ( so don't even try)

Well, you are but you are correct in that I won't waste my time.

[Pittspilot]

By today there are 44 HT4 registered in the states latest serial is #60.

17!!! of these are registered to Hawker Beechcraft Co.

Take your pick 17 out of 60 or 17 out 44. Either way it is like a musician buying his own records, to make the charts.

The rate of sales is reflecting the high number company inventory.

-Toilette volume 1 gal vs. 1.5 gal on the old HS-125
-Aft Baggage door accessible up to FL350, nice on a Transat
-hardly any storage in the cabin, volume and load wise
-Very tight cockpit
-No charts on the MFD
-No CAT II
… ask some Operators about the dispatch reliability and the way to clear faults after startup …

BUT the G250 is not in use yet! So we will need to wait on that one

Fly safe, your Pittspilot

[Barracuda550]

I´ve read somewhere, that the APU has to be shutoff for take-off and landing. Also, at least one engine-driven generator must be operating to start the APU in flight. With weight off the wheels, battery starts of the APU are not authorized.

Is that correct?

[His dudeness]

Why don´t you consider the Challenger 300?

[wondering]

Hawker 4000s Set for Significant Upgrade Program
Faced with an FAA mandate to modify all of the Hawker 4000s delivered thus far with fuel system upgrades that meet the latest certification standards, Hawker Beechcraft is combining that work with an extensive upgrade and enhancement program. The fuel system modifications require removal of the interior for access to isolate the fuel-system wiring harness and make other changes, all of which bring the 4000 to Amendment 102 standards of Part 25. The program will take about 90 days per airplane and work will be done at Hawker Beechcraft’s Little Rock service center. The program includes the fuel system mods and the Load 20 upgrade to the Honeywell Epic avionics (with graphical weather, charts display and many other improvements), Fadec software upgrade for the P&WC PW308A engines, a higher-capacity and improved toilet and other system upgrades. Hawker Beechcraft is paying for the program and alternative lift (but not for revenue-generating charter flights lost as a result of the downtime or for avionics upgrades that weren’t part of the original purchase agreement). The Hawker 4000 is the first business jet to achieve Amendment 102 compliance, according to Hawker Beechcraft.

[mattman]

I have a comparrsion between the G250 and CL300 aswell............... :E

[silverknapper]

Surely This (http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/434918-israeli-made-aircraft-g200-galaxy-etc-not-allowed-overfly-syria.html) is enough of a reason to discount the 250 in any comparison, be it Hawker or Challenger. Operational limitations, resale values and desireability. IMHO far too risky, especially the UAE part.

[Jetseller]

Any new aircraft purchase should begin with an analysis of your mission profile along with budget restraints and operating cost. How did you narrow the search down to these 2 aircraft?

I would NEVER purchase a new clean sheet design aircraft. It typically takes a few years and around 100 aircraft produced to work out all the bugs. At least the new G250 will not have rubber deice boots....LOL

[mourgo]

MAttman,

Please send me any comparison charts with the G250. Thinking about trading in the Legacy for one.