View Full Version : Night flying in PNG

21st Nov 2010, 08:45
I hear from people that APNG are to start night flights to Lae and back,back of the clock,with Moresby as an alternate.
Unmanned tower,dogy runway VHF lighting and based on forecasts which are not worth a crumpet.

These people never learn do they.The next engine failure at Lae will be the next accident,

Who is running this show?:{

21st Nov 2010, 13:13
Long-Long Tru

21st Nov 2010, 13:34
Usually we Nadzab Tower controllers would extend our shifts to process the flight. When we moved back to Lae in 82, night flights would go into Nadzab uncontrolled, I guess the only difference now could be the reliability of the facilities

21st Nov 2010, 21:00
Unmanned tower,dogy runway VHF lighting and based on forecasts which are not worth a crumpet

Mmmmm...............sounds like Central Australia. ;) :}

21st Nov 2010, 22:14
Given the aircraft their using, its fuel carrying capability, and experience of crews operating shouldn't be a problem.
You've got Alotau just down the road should you not wish to return to Pom, but lets not focus on the positive.

22nd Nov 2010, 05:08
The point I was making was,what A/C are they using and what is it`s S/E climb capability.IE how does it get back to Moresby in the event of eng failure, given the LSA.
As for Alotau,do they have lights,is there a tower there with someone on the ground? and what is LSA and time en route,given the weather might be OK.
There just seems to be too many avoidable accidents these days in PNG.
Does their CAA do any checks to make sure they are legal before their accidents occur.

Chimbu chuckles
22nd Nov 2010, 06:03
Alotau 'just down the road'?:ugh:

Why wouldn't you simply track NZB-Tsile Tsile - KRM - POM (highest LSA 11100' between Tsile Tsile and KRM) if you suffered an engine failure on departure NZB, or en route, and were unable to land back (because the ground staff have turned off the lights and fcked off home 5 seconds after you have retracted the wheels)?

With the exception of KRM, they will track Tsile Tsile-KUB normally, that is the way they will be tracking ex Nadzab anyway on 2 engines.

Having done far more than my share of night flying in PNG in all manner of aircraft from C402As - Bandits - Dash 7s and F28s I agree its a dumb idea. Apart from and SE performance considerations it would struggle to be economically viable in a Dash 8 because you will be tankering enough fuel from POM to fly to NZB, hold for 30 minutes, fly back to POM and hold for 60 minutes and then land with fixed reserves intact as a minimum - if you have a brain.

This sounds like a 'Wilde' idea :hmm:

22nd Nov 2010, 06:16
They could always light a fire at bulolo, the islands nationair pilots never had a problem getting in there on a garmin 100 at dot feet.

22nd Nov 2010, 07:28
Whilst it is do-able, we found the demand wasn.t there in the 80s due the Nationals unable to find wantoks late at night, and security problems on the 30k trip into Lae.

Waghi Warrior
22nd Nov 2010, 09:03
Alotau just down the road as a suitable alternate ay,you gotta have rocks in your head man and I'm currently pissed typing this. What about a circling approach onto RWY 09 in sh!tty WX at night with no fuel to go any where ? Misima P2-TAA, I say no more,I'm not sure if fuel was an issue but circling may have been,we can only wait for the report if it ever gets published. As far as PNG CASA go,they only have a skeleton staff in flying ops at the moment,hence they are hiring (?) God knows who ? Until CASA PNG get some experienced PNG pilots in there,other than ex flying instructors or military people nothing is going to change. Problem with CASA PNG is the pay.

Islands pilots into Bulolo,it's amazing what a Twin Otters and Bandits can do,hence I sill alive ! And somewhat wiser,well I would like to think so.

teresa green
22nd Nov 2010, 09:44
After flying 8 years in PNG, with twotters, DC3's etc (in the dark ages) I would rather swim thru a pool full of sharks, than fly around that joint at night.

Che cows with guns
22nd Nov 2010, 09:47
Alotau/Gurney has no lights just a PAPI.

22nd Nov 2010, 09:59
Regretably teresa as wise and correct as you are in what you say, todays beancounters love anybody from the "can do" generation until they "do do" into the side of a hill, that is.

WW is equally on the money regarding the PNG CAA, which not surprisingly mimicks the state of the rest of the country.

Night time in PNG is for drinking, eating and (eventually) sleeping, flying is best left as a daytime activity.............................................

7 mile.

Waghi Warrior
22nd Nov 2010, 20:20
Totally correct about only a Papi at Gurney as well.

Any substance to a rumour that APNG landed a Dash 8 at Wau about 6 months ago.

It sounds as though APNG need a few heavy handed safety audits put thruogh the place, in an effort to keep the bean counters and yes men on the straight and level.
I fell sorry for all the good guys and girls in APNG's flight decks, having stupid and unrealistic comercial pressures put on them from time to time.

teresa green
23rd Nov 2010, 06:44
7mile, we used to say, mornings for flying, afternoons for drinkin, nights for ............... enough said. That was the TAA creed!:D

teresa green
23rd Nov 2010, 06:52
I learnt the hard way, when having to take a very heavily pregnant woman, (one of the pilots wives) out from Lae to POM as she was in trouble. The Katabic and Anabatic winds were something I never want to see again. This was at 2100 and a total emergency. Both mum and baby survived, me, just.

23rd Nov 2010, 07:10
Teresa, I thought I would "clean up" that saying a bit but again you are correct.

And thanks for reminding me of those too numerous "head bangs" and headsets falling off courtesy of those bl00dy winds.

Perhaps the head bangs and not the booze is the reason I forget things these days.


teresa green
23rd Nov 2010, 09:16
That bub, took after dad, and is now a QF F/O. I have reminded him on a few occasions that his entry into the world was very dicey, and that had nothing to do with his birth!