The Air Touring Club - Biggin Hill: History Sought

[JetSetJimbo]

Hello

I'm doing a little family research and looking into the start of the Air Touring Club at Biggin Hill and wondered if anyone knew the history if this establishment - how it started and what happened in the early year.

Thanks - any help would be greatly appreciated.

JC

[POBJOY]

Did a short (ex gliding) PPL there in 1972.
Colin and Margaret Dyne,Kevin Hills and David Turner.
Everything looked pretty new then including the Rallyes and monsun BO209 (for spinning)
Was only there for the licence but very pleased with the way it was run and the atmosphere.
Staff were very friendly and amused when i pitched up with my Turbulent some weeks later.
Years later dealt with Pat Patel (engineering) "great guy".
Very sorry to hear of their demise in 2009 as always found them a pleasure to deal with and always ready to help with tech queries.
Having spent Years flying gliders with no compass and only a couple of instruments this led to some interesting situations.
One occaision en-route to S/Ford instructors asks "whats your heading"
Im heading for Crystal Palace i answered. No "whats your heading" Ah i think he wants me to be more precise,"the Co-op store i answer".
Instructor buries head in his hands and we have a chat about DI's and using them later.

[Earl of Rochester]

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1142847M.jpg (javascript:popUp('/popup.php?q=1142847'))

December 1979

[notfarg]

Well done,Earl of Rochester !
My first ever log book entry was in G-BGKB on the 28th May 1980.It was the first of approximately 600 hours in a variety of different Rallyes.I still have the bill for that day`s flying - 40 minutes dual including landing fee was £19.20 ! Would cost a bit more today, I think .
Notfarg

[POBJOY]

When i booked my flying with them i was offered a discount for paying in advance and an extra discount for flying during the week.
They even did my "spinning" whilst the aircraft was en-route for a booking at Headcorn (no charge)
They certainly took the pain out of the costs which were quite modest to start with and all the aircraft were brand new.
However it was the positive attitude that made me do my hours with them and they made it enjoyable from the moment you first stepped into the club / ops room that looked out across the airfield.

[Birthday Boy]

I have just come across this thread and was most interested to see Dave Turner's name mentioned. He was my instructor when I learned to fly there in 1973. Does anyone know where he is now.

BB

[tornadoken]

JSJ: London Aero Club started at Biggin, 1961, won the MS.880 distributorship and imported G-ARTT 13/12/61. Re-named Air Touring Services Ltd. 1965.

[POBJOY]

Hi B/Boy I saw mention on a page about a B/Hill reunion that DT had gone to South Africa.
Ist trip with Margaret, Middle bits with Kevin and David and the GFT with Colin.
All a very happy experience (after we sorted the compass/di bit out) (i had been flying for over ten years in machines that did not have them!!!)

[Highman]

David Turner is indeed living in South Africa. I see him a couple of times a year. He taught me to fly in 1971. A great instructor.

[Sleeve Wing]

It would be interesting to hear how Kevin Hills got on later. I did his training for his 1179/CPL upgrade at OATS in about 1973 ISTR.

[MrRoo]

Hi All, In my search for an old Instructor from Air Touring I came across this site;


Brief history; I started flying with AT on the 3rd of Sept 1978 the instructor was Trevor Prytherch; Finally acquiring my PPL on the 13th April 1980 at 40 hours 04 mins. The club was a truly family and social event, the social club ran many seasonal functions and festivities a great place to hang out. The CFI at the later time was Mike Weeks and he put me up on my first sole at 8.5 hours. the guy behind the desk at the time was Roger Patterson, a pupil PPL as well. (Later becoming my Instructor) I went on to fly the Rallye 150St & St100, Tapico and Tobago type. After many failed attempts to get a on a civil airline training scheme, That last was Bcal that accepted me and then was sold to BA and they dropped the scheme. In 1989 on the 27th August I made my last flight as P1. Broke and divorced.
I flew hardly any hours at after that ( I borrowed a C172 while on honeymoon in France to show my new wife the Chateaus) and a bit with people that had planes and helicopters. This April (2016) I was 60 and my wife tracked down Roger Paterson, who now does the GFT's at Surrey and Kent flying club, Biggin Hill. She arranged a flight to Headcorn for tea as a surprise. We eventually made the trip on the 31st July this year. Clare in the back with video and myself as a PUT. The Old hanger at AT has been replaced by a new Blue thing and the main hanger is home to Spitfires, Hurricanes and a part built ME109. No more bustle, no over packed circuit, in fact nothing else on the circuit, all gone. If anyone wants more information guess I might be able to help but the post is really to try and track down Mike Weeks, so if anyone knows of his whereabouts???


Regards, hope tis was no so boring?

[panzer639]

Hi Mr Roo,
I will pass this on to my brother, Ian Goodchild also an instructor a Biggin and lives a few doors down the road to Mike Weeks.
Cheers
Paul Goodchild.

[squeaker]

I had my first flight with them aged 12. I remember it was a Piper Apache, and the Aunt that took me was impressed with the fact that we had to join the Club for a week to be allowed to take a pleasure flight. I sat in the front seat and the pilot let me take the controls for a bit. That was me hooked!

[davjenmays]

Took my first lesson at Air Touring with Colin Dyne in May 1970 in Rallye G-AXCL. Hooked! As well as flying with Colin I also flew with Dave Turner (superb instructor), Kevin Hills, Margaret Dyne and others. Air Touring had no spinnable aircraft in those days and spinning was required before solo, so I had to fly with Barry McGrath at Surrey and Kent in a Beagle Pup to do Exercise 11. PPL in 1971, and when the MBB Monsuns arrived in 1972, Colin checked me out in G-AZOC - that was the day I learned what the rudder was really for! The Monsun was a delightful little aircraft, and I did a little aerobatic flying with Colin in it - nothing fancy, just loops, barrel rolls and spins. When Colin and Margaret moved to Headcorn to set up the Headcorn Flying School, I followed them down there and flew Robin DR 400s. Very happy memories of Air Touring Club.

[John M 45]

I have come in a few years late on this thread, but I got my PPL with Air Touring back in the late '60s. In those days it was known as the Air Touring Club (the 'Rallye' prefix came later) and operated out of an old control tower (almost certainly now demolished). The club had (I think) 3 Rallye Clubs at that time. As these were not cleared for spinning, that part of the training was done in either a Tiger Moth or a Chipmunk belonging to another club (Kent and Sussex Flying Club?). I still have a picture of myself looking like a Biggles character in the Tiger).

At that time there must have been at least 6 flying clubs at the airfield. I remember Colin and Margaret Dyne well. Margaret checked me out before letting me go for my first solo and Colin tore me off a strip one day for being very late back with a plane and keeping others waiting (I had flown some friends up to Silverstone to watch the motor racing and we were held there before being allowed to take off for the return trip).

My main instructor was a chap called Martin Jeffries who later left to take his Commercial License. While I was there the club moved into a brand new hangar on the other side of the airfield and the whole organisation became (perhaps sadly) more organised and professional.

I haven't been back to Biggin Hill for many years and I expect would hardly recognise it today, now that business aviation seems to have squeezed out most (and probably all) of the clubs and, from what I hear, is not too friendly at all to mere recreational fliers. But I still have happy memories of sunny days (the sun always shone in those days!) sitting on the grass outside the old clubhouse waiting for my plane to land so I could go flying.

As a postscript, those were the days when Biggin was the home of a still-airworthy Lancaster together with a Spitfire and a Mustang.

[Bills boy]

Morning all

Just seen this thread about Air Touring Club. As a family the old clubhouse was our regular haunt while Dad (Bill Barker) was training for his PPL on the tin parachutes. Lots of happy memories of clambering up the stairs to what was at the time the best view of the runway with decent bench seats aroung the edges and watching the Rallye death plunge at the end of 11. Radio traffic was very amusing in those days with the pilots commenting on thier approaches to the club on the short runway, keeping the audience amused with their banter about the instructors. We used to play in the blast pens where they kept the spitfires in ww2. On bonfire night we would split up into two gangs, adults and kids and launch fireworks at each other over the separator between the two pens. no-one got hurt........much. Dad and his instructor Gordon Quinnell were asked by a local TV company to do a flyby in 'India Whisky' for the cameras and this is what it looked like........

Oops, 9 more posts to go until I can share that

TTFN Clive Barker

[Marchettiman]

I too have just found this thread.
I spent a lot of time at Air Touring between 1969 and 1973 both renting Rallye's for fun and doing evening ground school lectures there. On occasion I was persuaded by Bob Cleary to go down to the Socata factory at Tarbes and ferry brand new airframes from there to Biggin Hill. The aircraft were pretty basic, had just a compass, ball, ASI and non-sensitive altimeter and of course no radio; I remember on one occasion being flown down there in a Gardan Horizon, on other occasions taking the boat train via Paris. It was a long way back in a Rallye, via Orleans or Toussus, Berk-sur-Mer and Lydd (to do the Customs paperwork) especially when flying the O-200 engine version!
There was quite a lively social life at Air Touring, especially in the evenings after ground school...does anyone remember one of my students, the delightful Janet Harris, a long legged blond who used to turn up for flying lessons in an AC Cobra wearing fashionably short skirts? The Metropolitan Police Flying Club were also affiliated to Air Touring and I learned a lot about the work of "coppers" from their members over a pint or two in the bar.
When Air Touring were appointed dealers for the Bolkow Monsun Colin Dyne checked me out on the demonstrator G-AYPE and did such a good job I bought a brand new one, taking delivery of her on January 1st 1973. The price, just £6450 after a bit of haggling with Mr Cleary.
In those days flying to France was slightly more complicated than today, each aircraft had a customs carnet and one had to clear outwards as well as inbound; as long as the aircraft had a
radio we used Gatwick for customs as well as ILS practice for a very minimal landing fee.

[VictorGolf]

Did the Air Touring Club ever use the Victa Airtourer? I'm helping an Australian friend who is trying to update the history of the Victas and I seem to remember that the ATC might have had one or two.

[treadigraph]

Don't recall ATC ever having any, certainly from my first visit in '75 it was all Aerospatiale, plus the Monsun. I think EFG and the Biggin Hill Flying Club had one or two each. I've had a very quick squizz at G-INFO and none of the UK Victa or Glos built examples seemed to have been owned by them...

[Hew Jampton]

I have come in a few years late on this thread, but I got my PPL with Air Touring back in the late '60s. In those days it was known as the Air Touring Club (the 'Rallye' prefix came later) and operated out of an old control tower (almost certainly now demolished). The club had (I think) 3 Rallye Clubs at that time. As these were not cleared for spinning, that part of the training was done in either a Tiger Moth or a Chipmunk belonging to another club (Kent and Sussex Flying Club?). I still have a picture of myself looking like a Biggles character in the Tiger).

At that time there must have been at least 6 flying clubs at the airfield. I remember Colin and Margaret Dyne well. Margaret checked me out before letting me go for my first solo and Colin tore me off a strip one day for being very late back with a plane and keeping others waiting (I had flown some friends up to Silverstone to watch the motor racing and we were held there before being allowed to take off for the return trip).

My main instructor was a chap called Martin Jeffries who later left to take his Commercial License. While I was there the club moved into a brand new hangar on the other side of the airfield and the whole organisation became (perhaps sadly) more organised and professional.

I haven't been back to Biggin Hill for many years and I expect would hardly recognise it today, now that business aviation seems to have squeezed out most (and probably all) of the clubs and, from what I hear, is not too friendly at all to mere recreational fliers. But I still have happy memories of sunny days (the sun always shone in those days!) sitting on the grass outside the old clubhouse waiting for my plane to land so I could go flying.

As a postscript, those were the days when Biggin was the home of a still-airworthy Lancaster together with a Spitfire and a Mustang.

Martin Jeffree, later a great captain with British Island Airways at LGW, who died not so long ago.

[VictorGolf]

Thanks treadigraph. The search continues.

[Gipsy Queen]

Did the Air Touring Club ever use the Victa Airtourer? I'm helping an Australian friend who is trying to update the history of the Victas and I seem to remember that the ATC might have had one or two.

Only just discovered this thread - I was searching for info on Colin Dyne with whom I did my multi GFT many years ago and was directed here.

During my time at Biggin, there were only two Victa/Glos Airtourers on the field. These were G-ATCK and G-AWOZ and both were operated by the Biggin Hill Flying Club. The club also ran an old MS880B that might have come from Air Touring. I remember taking Gordon King to Headcorn in CK in one of my more hilarious flights in the days before flying became swamped with regulation and professionalism. Sadly, both Airtourers as well as Gordon and Lillian King no longer are with us.

It is a cruel irony that Tim Doyle's Chipmunk, often borrowed by Air Touring for spin recovery training, was lost a few years later in failing to recover from a spin over the Dartford Marshes. Tim and his son Richard also have flown west - I'm beginning to feel a bit lonely.

[VictorGolf]

Thanks for your input, Gipsy Queen, and a Happy New Year to you. I only have the dates of the accidents to 'TCK (25/8/74) and 'WOZ (7/6/75). Do you happen to have any more details such as where and how they happened?

[treadigraph]

VictorGolf, a bit more detail about their losses in this thread (https://www.pprune.org/where-they-now/602679-biggin-hill-flying-club.html?highlight=G-AWOZ)...

[VictorGolf]

Oh dear thank you "treadigraph" for the very sad update on the Airtourers. There is reference to a Lady Bracknell being upset at the news. What was her involvement?

[Gipsy Queen]

VG

Sorry, I can't help with any further detail - I'd gone from Biggin by 1974, although I knew Barry Hodson quite well.

And another apology if the reference to Lady Bracknell was unduly obscure. In Wilde's entertaining nonsense The Importance of Being Ernest, Lady Bracknell when being told that another character in the cast has lost two parents, responds; "To lose one parent, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness." It was to the loss of both Airtourers that this reference was made. At the time of writing, I was unaware of the loss of life involved, so perhaps I should have avoided the flippancy.

And a happy New Year to you too. Let's hope that the deadly duo of Boris/Covid allow some reasonable prospect of this.

[VictorGolf]

Thanks GQ, that makes it clear. It's a long time since GCE O-level English Literature so I missed the reference

[Gipsy Queen]

VG

I've sent a PM.

[VictorGolf]

HI GQ. Roger, reply sent.

[Barry Stanton]

I last flew with Airtouring on 10/12/1988. That was my last flight before family and career took over. The aircraft was a TB9 G-BIZR I used to fly both TB9’s and 10’s and I remember the club being very professional but also extremely friendly. I’m glad to see Roger Pattinson is still around he was the CFI in those days and he was very accepting of me having crossed over from BHSF where I’d crashed one of their AA5’s! My instructor was John Sutehall at BHSF whom I’m still in touch with and he’s a captain with DHL these days. Happy times and a great place to fly

[POBJOY]

Many years after doing my 'short' PPL there I had cause to obtain some Rallye spares from the club whilst Pat Patel was still around. A few years after that I called at Biggin whilst visiting the nearby Kenley (an even bigger shock).
ATC had only just been vacated so it was the same as my PPL days but no people or aircraft. However it also bought back very fond memories of the place which started me off in the 'power' dept after years of gliding. Biggin itself was a complete change, and certainly not for the better. It brings home how lucky we were to experience both the club and Biggin in their heyday (Dillows Cafe) Coby and co, JM keeping it all going. Jock had 'enabled' it in 59 when Croydon closed, and what a GA centre it became, plus starting the careers of hundreds of pilots and engineers. When I called in to find a club for my 'conversion' there were over a dozen to choose from and the sky was dark with machines in the circuit, with non radio using the grass.
The fact that most people at the time were trying to fly on a budget only made the place more friendly so all in all it was a great gift of aviation for those starting off.

[treadigraph]

I first visited Biggin in '75 with the Scouts for a ride in a Rallye (G-BAOI) from ATS. During school holidays there were very few weeks I didn't bus, cycle or occasionally walk (14 mile round trip!) up at least once, often two or three times in the late '70s and early '80s. Nearly always something interesting to be seen and if 29 was in use, I'd sit with my back against the blast pen wall close to Sportair's hangar and watch the comings and goings... security guard would do his rounds and stop to say "hello". None of this access road business, if you wanted to go to ATS, you went round the peri-track.

Looking at Google Maps now, I see the eastern end of 29 and the grass to the north of it is now becoming a vast apron, and I assume hangars will appear.

The first Tobago at ATS in '79 was a complete surprise, I'd never heard anything about the type! I reckon every TB-9/10/20 that joined the UK register went through their hands for at least 10 years. Looking at Flight Tracker, I still see the familiar registrations pop up occasionally! Now it's full of Spitfires which is perhaps a good replacement - but a shame ATS and Sportair disappeared...

No, you can't go back...

Do we need a Biggin-specific thread?

[POBJOY]

Biggin was 'THE PLACE' to be in the 60's for anything aviation south of London. Apart from the growing clubs many aircraft used the custom facilities for the French connection, and it was here that I saw my first real Turbulent close up when the pretty little machine (with canopy) dropped in on its way back from the continent.
As I recall it was getting rather late and the machine popped in onto the runway by the GA apron and the driver taxied 'tail up' and parked up followed by a hasty run across to do the paperwork thing. A few minutes later he reappeared (I am nearby) and still wearing a LJ hopped in saying he was in a bit of a hurry to get to Redhill before dark. He then bent forward and pulled the cable operated (lawn motor type) starter and headed towards the downhill taxiway, which then became the convenient runway for his departure !!. For me this was a pivotal moment in deciding that gliding around the Kenley circuit was not to be my only aviation involvement.
I was in the same place some time later when my eyes gazed upon a beautiful RF3 going past (wings rocking on the hoops) which only confirmed that with its VW engine powered flight was affordable even for me. Biggin was a mecca for anyone who aspired to fly, and formed part of an aviation triangle together with Croydon and Kenley, that not only served the Country well in two conflicts, but provided a continued boost to the 'air minded' youth in peace.

[airgirl]

It would be interesting to hear how Kevin Hills got on later. I did his training for his 1179/CPL upgrade at OATS in about 1973 ISTR.

Glad to hear that you remember Kevin Hills - he is my uncle! I was one of the bunch of annoying kids that used to be hanging around the club and probably annoying you! My mum and Nan used to run the bar and restaurant. Kevin retired from commercial flying 5 years ago much to his disgust! After Air Touring he flew Merchantman for Air Bridge Carriers. From there he went to Air Europe on B737’s. Following AE’s demise he went to fly for Lauda Air based out of Vienna and ended up flying B777’s on long haul routes. Along the way Lauda became Austrian Airlines who he flew for until his retirement.

I worked at Air Touring when I left school and am still in touch with Roger Patterson. I was back in the old clubhouse last Saturday as my cousin bought Kevin a flight in the Spit for his birthday and we had a family day for it. Was very odd being back there, loads of amazing memories came flooding back.

[POBJOY]

Glad to hear that you remember Kevin Hills - he is my uncle! I was one of the bunch of annoying kids that used to be hanging around the club and probably annoying you! My mum and Nan used to run the bar and restaurant. Kevin retired from commercial flying 5 years ago much to his disgust! After Air Touring he flew Merchantman for Air Bridge Carriers. From there he went to Air Europe on B737’s. Following AE’s demise he went to fly for Lauda Air based out of Vienna and ended up flying B777’s on long haul routes. Along the way Lauda became Austrian Airlines who he flew for until his retirement.

I worked at Air Touring when I left school and am still in touch with Roger Patterson. I was back in the old clubhouse last Saturday as my cousin bought Kevin a flight in the Spit for his birthday and we had a family day for it. Was very odd being back there, loads of amazing memories came flooding back.

So pleased that club house has survived it was a friendly hub of aviation and a model of how a club could run., and quite close to some of the original fighter bays. Kevin had been of the instructors 'tasked' to do my glider to ppl conversion (15hrs) (he made it a pleasure). Am I correct in thinking he flew a C310 in his early commercial days.

[airgirl]

So pleased that club house has survived it was a friendly hub of aviation and a model of how a club could run., and quite close to some of the original fighter bays. Kevin had been of the instuctors 'tasked' to do my glider to ppl conversion (he made it a pleasure). Am I correct in thinking he flew a C310 in his early commercial days.

its lovely that it’s still there. So much of the airfield has been destroyed which I find incredibly sad but just thankful that the clubhouse is still there and in use!


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/1125bbc7_48ce_4b41_9278_da94a559d29a_2e4cf03845af7321fb08731 5a3fe2096af53d271.jpeg
The old Air Touring clubhouse as it is now.

[POBJOY]

Not bad for a 50 year old club house, now with added veranda. Glad it has had a new life.

[Vanguardian]

I also am late into the thread, I think I found it a while ago and didn't return
I was introduced to the club by one of my Air Training Corps officers, Tony Weedon in 72, Tony was also one of the flying instructors mostly on the weekends. My first flight with him was in G-AYYY, having only flown in Chipmunks this was a different world- visibility. Tony never added the instructors fee when I flew with him, less than £7 ph for a rally ate in to my low apprentice pay, an extra £1 for the Monsun. I often hitched rides and to those I was very grateful off. I started lessons formally later after about a year. I did do a Monsun flight, but as it was before formal flying I never recorded it, even the reg.
I flew with most of the instructors noted above except Margaret and Colin. Headcorn was coming along, the clubhouse/cafe had opened, available on some days. I got a free map reading flight down and back only to then find myself being instructed on using the ground radio and being Headcorn "tower" for the next hour covering a lesson of circuits.
I got to 3.5 hours solo, nearly ate a fourniers rudder that joined the circuit tight in front of me on the cross wind. However I am neg gee sensitive and I have not beaten it to this day, In 74/5 I called it game over, stalling and spinning was not going to be good (I don't believe 80% of people do, except the loony aeros brigade). Could I step back in a Rallye and fly on my memories, yes I think I could with few prompts.
in 2018 I worked in hangar 500, got an invite to join a short tour into the Heritage hanger the the airport pr manager, we spoke of the original design with dogtooth cutout to fit the tails in, spoke in relation to the resident Messersmidt that it wasn't the first to be there although the Bolkow Blomn addition didn't really make the Monsun a true Messersmidt. At least it had fixed wings!
My short time with the club was informative, in reflection I learnt a lot more than I realised a different social level and most importantly the trust pilots place on the aircraft and its maintenance team. As an avionics apprentice it was one thing that was never taught but came from flying.
Incidentally a lady on the Heritage Hangar reception also was ex ATS/C.