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NuckingFuts
11th Nov 2010, 08:16
What is the industry coming to when a two bit construction company can waltz in and make a mockery of Australian aviation.

I feel for the poor souls from Ansett administration that were sucked into the John Holland debacle. These forums were once the jousting room for earlier ambitions of people who believed it could be done.

Well history is unfolding in front of our very eyes as they show the world just how badly it can be done. Where is the industry regulator in all of this? AWOL as usual. From what I have seen and heard it is a return to bondage and slavery! (that might be a little over the top, but you get my point).

They are bleeding engineers quicker than the immigration department can approve their Visa's. What next is on the horizon for them? Maybe into medicine, there's a few quick bucks in that industry. What about mental health? They could send all their aviation workers there after their break downs. What a money spinner!

I'm surprised they were not installing insulation bats as well.

Dear JHAS Management,

Please don't ruin this fine industry that most people have worked tirelessly to build over the last 90 years. This is not an industry where you can make a quick buck! Whatever it is you are trying to do, just let it go. We don't want what is left of the Australian aviation industry ruined by some dirt shoveling, concrete pouring company who is he'll bent on making a buck, not making it better.

WorthWhat
11th Nov 2010, 09:12
Suspect what Australia needs NF is a Regional MRO Facility which is partly owned by all our Airlines and set up specifically to service next generation aircraft.

Without one, expect A380/350 and B787 heavy maintenance/engine overhaul will be done offshore.

Jethro Gibbs
11th Nov 2010, 09:31
JHAS or FORSTAFF or ALG or some other crap little unit all these joints are screwing everyone.:ugh:

imperial shifter
12th Nov 2010, 08:30
WW - AAES was on the market for all to buy until three years ago but they didn't bother. Also, every JHAS customer expects top priority but somebody has to be second or third. The idea that the airlines can work together is unrealistic.

NF - I can well understand you sentiment and add plenty of other negatives to boot but I do feel that it's the LCC approach to aviation that's driving maintenance. At the end of the day JHAS offer a service that airline beancounters are happy with. As for the workers and JHAS's management style, they still think their building carparks with an endless supply of labour. As for what's next, from what I can tell they're expanding in rail and want to expand into marine to make a three cornered transport division.

mainwheel
12th Nov 2010, 20:36
NF's,

What are they doing wrong, or sub standard.

727ace
12th Nov 2010, 21:20
well, one thing is screwing alot of local LAMES by importing from overseas then finding that they eventually use the system to ,like Forestaff Avalon to then move into the Majors!!!
no foresight into the future requirements of the industry only really looking at the present.
must be something wrong when staff leave , always a sign of management problems
employing upper management deadwood, actually think that applies all around in this country!!!! sorry

Bolty McBolt
12th Nov 2010, 21:42
JHAS = :yuk: :yuk:

Where is rhomulos. He used to spruik all kinds disinformation on here, esp when they thought they could grab the 380 maint.

So far I am yet to speak to anyone working for JHAS not looking for something else.

Where is your retort "rhomulos" ?

Mr. Hat
12th Nov 2010, 21:52
Guess VB are about to find out the hard way..

Jethro Gibbs
13th Nov 2010, 02:45
rhomulos was just there to push the cause now he is gone as well after telling people how great it all was.

VBPCGUY
13th Nov 2010, 02:47
I was told last night they are pulling down all the B767 scaffolding/rigging and putting in A330 scaffolding/rigging.

NuckingFuts
13th Nov 2010, 03:05
That rumor about the docking appears to be correct.

I have also heard that they are on a recruiting drive for LAME's.
They have even told staff they will get a spotters fee for anyone they get to sign up. Apparently when the workers confronted management with the question, why would they recommend anyone in the industry leave a decent job and come to JHAS? It was suggested that they lie to them because there is money in it for them. What an insight into the management and recruiting style! Just Lie.

plasticmerc
13th Nov 2010, 04:35
Can someone please clarify as to why JHAS are no good?
I would be interested to find out.
Is it just their HM in Melbourne or is it the line stations as well?
I have heard that they pay their line station engineers ok, but I am unaware of the shifts or other conditions.
I have noticed they are constantly searching for night shift guys in Melb, and I have noiced they are looking for LAMES (line in aparticular) around OZ.
I thank everyone for the info in advance.

NOT QF LAME
15th Nov 2010, 00:11
:ugh:Bad things have been happening at JHAS for some time, you cna only treat people badly for so long before they start to respond. This can be seen in the number of people that have decided to walk in recent times. Not to mention the cycle of redundancies and the "we really need you to work hard to get this one out" mentality. JHAS has let Heavy maint slip through their fingers and one customer dictate how the business will be run that customer will dump on JHAS as soon as it can meet its needs somwhere else. I dout if the rush to import overseas licenses will be able to stem the drain from the company.

THE CLOCK IS TICKING, perhaps somebody can come in a pick up the peices but the current management are not capable of doing it!!!

gobbledock
15th Nov 2010, 11:19
Perhaps Lord Rhomulos is getting his hands dirty putting up the A330 scaffolding and is too busy to respond ???

Jethro Gibbs
15th Nov 2010, 23:37
Lord Rhomulos has done his dirty work and left long ago.:ok:

satos
16th Nov 2010, 00:17
Lord Rhomulos has done his dirty work and left long ago.
Smart man.

Jethro Gibbs
16th Nov 2010, 04:31
after he screwed everyone

fruitloop
16th Nov 2010, 05:21
I think he was made Redundant.....pity

rmm
16th Nov 2010, 05:34
I don't think he's completely vanished. If you click on his public profile he was last here today at 10:20. Whether he's still associated with JHAS is another question.

Jethro Gibbs
16th Nov 2010, 06:38
he was just another HR type person spin spin spin !

max1
16th Nov 2010, 11:25
Don't we ( those who are actually keen to do a fair days work for a fair days pay) see it it all to often in Australia these days.
We are actually competitive in the global environment , but we are saddled with the smartest guys in the room, who are the lions share of the salary/bonus cost, they always spruik the line 'we need to be more competitive' .
In Australia we have multiple layers of middle management who chant the mantra of 'Worlds Best Practice' ,' Being Lean/Competitive',etc, who are really not needed.
It reminds me of a friend who was involved in running a company in the UK ,he was chided by the owner that he and another colleague seemed to disagree on a number of occasions and had to work towards a consenus. His reply was ' If we always agreed then you didn't need both of us'.

NuckingFuts
17th Nov 2010, 05:00
NOT QF LAME your remarks are quite correct. The guys at JHAS have had enough of the HR rant and the constant mistreatment by the management.

The workers in good faith gave management there some slack, only to have the carpet pulled out from under them at the first opportunity.

From what i can tell there will be no mercy from the workers anymore. It is disappointing that once again the regulator has failed to protect the industry from these fly by nighters. The guys there have been put under enormous pressure to make up for management incompetence. They are regularly pressured to stretch the letter of the law and get the aircraft out the door.

The guys shouldn't be left to fend for themselves.

I don't think any amount of recruiting will be able to keep up with the constant exodus.

You know what they say, "you reap what you sow".

Bellcrank 74
22nd Nov 2010, 07:31
The chicken farmer is leaving...:D:ok:

NuckingFuts
27th Nov 2010, 20:50
Chicken farmer? :confused:

Bellcrank 74
28th Nov 2010, 09:21
GM has pulled the pin.....(he used to manage some chicken establishment)

aintsaying
1st Dec 2010, 16:36
Bellcrank

Does this mean John Holland is pulling the pin on its Aviation Services division?
or
Does it mean a GM in JHAS has left the Aviation division of the JH group?

thanks.

Bellcrank 74
2nd Dec 2010, 09:52
aintsaying

No as far as i know they will be looking to fill his shoes early in the new year....

fruitloop
18th Dec 2010, 03:56
Watch this space in the New year !!!

Jethro Gibbs
18th Dec 2010, 04:48
Already being Advertised.

fruitloop
19th Dec 2010, 05:43
The GM job or new owner ??

listentome
19th Dec 2010, 06:05
GM replacement

Sunfish
19th Dec 2010, 06:52
Where is it advertised? I need a good laugh, maybe I should apply.

Jethro Gibbs
19th Dec 2010, 09:11
think i seen it on seek.:ok:or the jhas site

qf 1
19th Dec 2010, 19:04
i worked for a Conrete company from Denmark in aviation in the Uk back in the early 90's as an AME.The outfit was at Standsted airport which carried out HM on a variety of wide and narrow body aircraft.They too thought that aircraft maint was simple having the numbers of arms anf legs with no skill base and then charging the standard international aircraft maint rate.No worries !!!..The employed ames to start with but as the the ginger beers fingerd out this mob paid sh!t house rates,no training,management treating engineers poorly,engineers kicked of site for questioning engineering standards,poor tool cribs with no equipment.The engineers started leave in droves,the next step for managment was to employee anyone that had a tool box bought from their local Tesco...They had pastry chiefs,carpenters, concretors ,brick layers (anyone that wanted to have a go in aircraft maintenance could have a go,as the LAME's would sign off on the work anyone they thought this was the best way forward).
the company went broke after this new buisness model of useing unskilled labour,aircraft where dropped off jacks,jacks put through wings,tail sections the list went on and on.
After a decade they finally shut up shop and have gone back to making concrete back in Europe...problem is you have high paid Exes from these companys with big egos that have built a few bridges or buildings thinking that was easy lets give aircraft maint a go(rates of pay are great,your hundreds of men working per hr adds up to big profits,ITS A LICENCE TO PRINT MONEY),that little engineering experiment nearly sent the company broke..

NOT QF LAME
20th Dec 2010, 13:04
Great parallel QF1.:ugh:

Jethro Gibbs
21st Dec 2010, 00:01
JH seems to be involved with the goverments NBN see pic page 4 herald sun :eek:

Romulus
21st Dec 2010, 00:46
JH seems to be involved with the goverments NBN see pic page 4 herald sun http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

John Holland Telecommunications.

Not bad for a "two bit construction company".

There are plenty of seriously smart people in there (both JH and JH Telco) who really understand engineering. The JHAS situation and any issues it has (which I admit I am no longer intimately familiar with) is not due to any lack of understanding engineering.

Jethro Gibbs
21st Dec 2010, 04:53
Still pushing the barrow !

Romulus
21st Dec 2010, 05:33
Still pushing the barrow !

Sure, they were and remain a good company, simple as that.

I don't work for them now and in all reality won't work for them again so that's certainly not a sycophantic statement. Equally you may not like them, seems you don't like much at all from your other posts, so be it. But the fact remains they gave AAES a shot and have kept 300+ people employed for several years longer than if the business had been shut down had they not bought it. They're no fly by night mob, they honour their commitments to employees and clients and they've given an industry a shot in a way that others wouldn't.

Maybe JHAS works, maybe it doesn't, maybe it hasn't and maybe it won't.

But at least they tried.

Can you say you've done anything like that? Have you put your money on the line to save a business? What have you done to make the industry better or more viable?

I can't comment on the current JHAS situation because I just don't have the up to date knowledge, but I can say the "chicken farmer" as Bellcrank so politely calls him is one of the smartest engineers I've ever met. And a seriously good guy who cares about the people side of the business. You may not like or even respect him, but I can tell you that in the time I was with them he gave his all for JHAS and pretty much sold his soul to the JH board and senior management to make the deal happen. He stepped down from a higher ranking GM position to take direct accountability for the aviation business. If you're employed or have been employed by JHAS then that comes down to him.

Maybe all of that doesn't mean much to you but then it seems you're anti most things you post about. Perhaps you need some introspection and to ask yourself why that is. Regardless of where JHAS goes at least some people had the guts to stand up and take a shot at making it work. Ask yourself if you could have done anything to make the place better and then ask yourself if you did.

I'm guessing, if you're totally honest with yourself, the answer isn't very pretty.

VBA Engineer
23rd Dec 2010, 12:30
They can't be doing too bad, they have and are getting a bigger slice of the Virgin work.

B737 and Embraer heavy checks.

One overnight maintenance slot every night.

Soon to have the A330 line station and overnight maintenance.